Destiny vs Free Will

[Anonymous 42]

 

 

I’m just an asshole’s asshole! A real potato bud!

Drink the whole thing, you deserve it!

[John DoeParticipant 743]

I am not kidding, I am partially ashamed.  After doing “a little” research, not a lot just a little, red flags went off like crazy.

From this point on I am going to be more selective with the people I debate.   Being right does not mean I should flaunt it.  Some people literally don’t want to learn.  It is not my fault.  And apparently, according to rainman’s philosophy, neither is it his.

I am done with debates for a while.

[Anonymous 42]

Want a brain slushy instead?

It’ll make you smarter!

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Only if it is made of monkey brains.

[Anonymous 42]

 

Drink Up!

 

[Terminal MemeParticipant 57]

First you grace us with, “A person can choose his path, but destiny is where that path leads.” Roger that Confucius, are you f~~~ing high? Spare us the paradoxical yin-yang loving, contradictory, wanna-be poet, pretentious 20 year old pseudo philosophy, bar napkins.

Now you deliver the brilliant, “Illusions can not exist without freewill.” A near perfect example of why you’re unqualified to use space in this thread. You can’t think your way out a wet paper bag John. How anyone here buys this s~~~ is beyond me.

I found you especially amusing though. Your attempted character assassination of Harris is pretty low man. He’s a Doctor. He’s donates half of all revenue from books to charity. To be frank, the guy is a humble prodigy. I’m not embarrassed to say so, especially to a snotty kid, who cites wikipedia and thinks he’s smarter than dozens of scientists, without reading any of their books. You’re the definition of quaint ingnorance. You’re not even cute or original. You’re so under read, and under educated, you can’t even quote the sources or arguments of people that take your side. You’re at heart just a arrogant child, a dumb Crustian.

Have some dignity and save face;shut up and leave this thread. Go hang out in your Jesus hippie circle, “Men of Faith room.” You’ll be safe there from all of us educated and evil atheists who believe what neuroscientist’s publish. You on the other hand, call them liars, with no formal education or understanding, and believe some wizard of the cosmos granted you free will and immortality. F~~~ing idiot.

[WolfgarParticipant 21]

Hello Terminal,

You keep claiming that people should read books.  And not just any author will do.

Terminal Meme wrote:

But books written by Phd’s.

Would you accept any PhD’s book?

How about books written by PhDs or MDs with a different worldview than what you hold?

Except for the first book (which I have just ordered) this list includes some of the books I have read in full or in part.  All of them were written by PhDs or MDs.  Most of the authors listed here also have presentations you can listen to on youtube.  (Which is why I am ordering the first book.  I listened to a couple of his lectures about the subject of his book.)  One of the books is available as a free pdf download.

Are you so anti-Christian and hateful that you would discount these authors just because of their worldview?  We are, after all, talking about training from Cambridge, Berkeley, Technical University of Aachen, UCLA, University of California San Diego School of Medicine, etc.

Signature in the Cell:
Dr. Stephen C. Meyer, a Cambridge trained philosopher of science is examining and explaining the amazing depth of digital technology found in each and every living cell such as nested coding, digital processing, distributive retrieval and storage systems, and genomic operating systems.

I met Dr. Meyer while we were both on jury duty (what are the chances of that).  He approached me when he saw I was reading “Seven Men Who Rule the World from the Grave” written by another Ph.D. author Dr. Breese.

Seven Men Who Rule the World from the Grave uncovers the influence that seven men, though now dead, still have on modern thinking. Charles Darwin, was a proponent of evolution; Karl Marx, developed modern communism; Julius Wellhausen, initiated the philosophies of higher criticism and modernism; John Dewey, redefined the entire educational system with “new thinking”; Sigmund Freud, believed in the driving force of sexual instinct; John Maynard Keynes, advocated policies which opened the door to deficit spending and governmental activism; and Soren Kierkegaard, forerunner in existentialism, all have had a large part in shaping modern thinking and their influence reaches from far beyond the grave. These men had philosophies that were dangerous and anti-Christ and this book attempts to reveal how those philosophies are present today in schools, businesses, homes, churches and governments. Dr. Breese gives great insight into satan’s strongholds.

Icons of Evolution:
Dr Jonathan Wells – two Ph.D.s, one in Molecular and Cell Biology from the University of California at Berkeley, and one in Religious Studies from Yale University.

Answers Book:
edited by Dr. Don Batten
contributing authors
Dr. Andrew Snelling
Dr. Werner Gitt
Dr. John Baumgardner
Dr. Russell Humphreys – New View of Gravity Helps Creation Cosmology
Address : <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUFGAVc9inw&gt;
Beyond Neptune: Voyager II Supports Creation
Address : <http://www.icr.org/article/beyond-neptune-voyager-ii-supports-creation/&gt;

Dr Humphreys was born on 2 February 1942 in Wyandotte, Michigan, U.S.A., and was raised in a scientifically aware but non–Christian household. Not surprisingly, Russell himself always had a love for science, and in 1959, he was one of the 40 winners of the Westinghouse National Science Talent Search.

He received a B.S. degree in physics at Duke University, 1959–1963. After this, he moved to Louisiana State University (LSU) to study postgraduate physics. In 1969, while doing his dissertation research for LSU in the mountains of Colorado, he committed his life to Christ. In 1972, he was awarded a Ph.D. in physics, on cosmic rays and ultrahigh energy nucleon–nucleon interactions, by which time he was a fully convinced creationist due to both the biblical and scientific evidence. For the next 6 years he worked in the High Voltage Laboratory of General Electric Company, designing and inventing equipment and researching high–voltage phenomena. While there, he received a U.S. patent and one of Industrial Research Magazine’s IR–100 awards.
Address : <http://creation.com/d-russell-humphreys-cv&gt;

In the Beginning was Information:
The Author, Prof. Dr-Ing. Werner Gitt was born in Raineck/East Prussia in 1937. In 1963 he enrolled at the Technical University of Hanover (Technische Hochschule Hannover) and in 1968 he completed his studies as Diplom Ingenieur.  Thereafter he worked as an assistant at the Institute of Control Engineering at the Technical University of Aachen (Technische Hochschule Aachen). Following two years of research work, he received his doctorate summa cum laude, together with the prestigious Borchers Medal, from the Technical University of Aachen, Germany, in 1970. He is now Director and Professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology (Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt Braunschweig). He has written numerous scientific papers in the field of information science, numerical mathematics, and control engineering, as well as several popular books, some of which have been translated into Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, English, Finnish, French, Hungarian, Italian, Kirghizian, Polish, Rumanian and Russian. Since 1984 he has been a regular guest lecturer at the State Independent Theological University of Basle, Switzerland, on the subject of ‘The Bible and Science’. He has held lectures on related topics at numerous universities at home and abroad, as well as having spoken on the topic ‘Faith and Science’ in a number of different countries (e. g. Australia, Austria, Belgium, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Kirghizia, Lithuania, Namibia, Norway, Rumania, Russia, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland).

This book can be downloaded for free at http://clv-server.de/pdf/255255.pdf

Cosmic Codes:
Dr Chuck Missler
Chuck has served on the Board of Directors of over a dozen public companies, and was Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of five of them. Chuck Missler received a Congressional appointment to the United States Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. Upon graduating with honors, he received his commission in the U.S. Air Force. By the time he completed his military obligations, he had become Branch Chief of the Department of Guided Missiles at Lowry Air Force Base. Chuck completed a Masters Degree in engineering at UCLA with additional post-graduate studies in applied mathematics, advanced statistics and information sciences, and completed his PhD at Louisiana Baptist University. His civilian career began as a systems engineer at TRW, followed by a Senior Analyst position in a “think tank” serving both the intelligence community and the Department of Defense.

Another of the authors on this list that I have met.  I actually had dinner with him and a select group of others.

Alien Encounters:
Dr Chuck Missler and Dr Mark Eastman, MD

Address : <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo0QAHRsYrQ&list=PL2DPUlbVCELQxgBUdbSf7jDw_ZSOJQ_V5&index=3&gt;

Buried Alive:
Dr. Jack Cuozzo (orthodontist)

The Young Earth:
John D. Morris Ph.D.

The Brotherhood of Darkness:
Late Dr. Stan Monteith, MD (Orthopedics)

Another author I have met.  I not only had dinner with him but spent a couple of hours at his house talking to him one on one.  I was even a guest on his radio show one time talking about the 2009 H1N1 swine flu hoax and the meetings that the CDC put on around the nation that were nothing more than a media event to try and convince people to take the vaccine.

Do these books count?  Or do only evolution based books count?

[Yellow WizardParticipant 41]

Wolfgar, you’ve become a master of the “scoop and throw” school of sophistry. Congratulations on YOUR PHD (piled high and deep) in s~~~ flinging.

Your list of “Seven Men Who Rule From the Grave” includes my Existentialism professor’s favorite, Soren Kierkegaard. Your source said Kierkegaard had a philosophy that was “…dangerous and anti-Christ…”. BULLS~~~.

Kierkegaard was as hard core a christian as they get. He criticized the DOGMATIC approach to religion during his day and had the courage and empathy to be able to connect with those criticizing the church. I don’t have time to dig up my old texts, so here’s Wikapedia…..(sorry).

“(Kierkegaard’s) audience was any single individual who is laboring what God wants him to become.” Kierkegaard, IMO, was religion for Men Going Their Own Way.

Kierkegaard popularized the slogan “leap of faith” in presenting his arguments of why he was a christian despite the attacks of logicians of the day. Additionally, on this thread of “Destiny vs Free Will”, he was the FATHER OF EXISTENTIALISM. Do you even know what that means?

Existentialism takes as its core belief the notion of existence before essence. That as humans we aren’t created with an “essence” or purpose or fate in mind, but rather that we are created first and then USE FREE WILL TO DISCOVER OUR OWN MEANING IN LIFE. He was not only one of the greatest christian thinkers ever, but he also supported one of the ideas this whole friggin’ thread is about. Even as an anti-theist myself, I respect and admire the man.

But here you go, Wolfgar, lumping him in with a bunch of other guys who SUPPOSEDLY are “dangerous”. You vomit out an exhaustive list of PHDs of whom you haven’t bothered to research yourself. Instead of “scoop and throw” appeals to authorities you haven’t checked, why don’t you have the intellectual temerity to present arguments of your own?

[WolfgarParticipant 21]

Hello Elemental,

My post was a response to Terminal’s incessant accusations that nobody reads books.  He then uses his own accusations of people not reading any books to try and insult any Christian/Theist by childish name calling.  It’s getting quite tiresome.  But I suppose that is the point of it.  People will eventually get fed up with it and stop posting anything and then he can claim a victory, “You see, I’m right because they ran away.”

And specifically one of his tactics is to constantly use a made up word “Crustian”.

Yellow Wizard wrote:

(funny how you de-legitimize atheism by spelling it wrong)

Why don’t you admonish Terminal for doing what you accused Harpo of doing?

I noticed that you only talked specifically about Kierkegaard.  He was not even on the list of authors that I presented.  He was the subject of one of the authors that I listed.

Have you ever listened to or read any of Dr Stephen Meyer’s information on Intelligent Design?  How about Dr Werner Gitt?  Dr Chuck Missler?  All three of these authors bring up a valid point about the origination “information”.  All three authors have a lot of their information on youtube available for free if you dare.  But if you want me to take the time to summarize if for you I will.  (Later.  Work and other issues are eating up my time.  I think we all understand that.)

Yellow Wizard wrote:

You vomit out an exhaustive list of PHDs of whom you haven’t bothered to research yourself.

I have talked to 3 of them personally and had dinner with 2 of them.  One of the 3 I talked to at his home for a good couple of hours.  You?  Terminal?

My ride to work is here.  Have to go.

[Terminal MemeParticipant 57]

For the record: I have no beef at all with Harpomason. He’s got the tolerance and “coexister” characteristics that I dislike but overall, the guy isn’t so bad. I could argue that moderates like him are worse than fundamentalists since they give cover to false ideas. But I haven’t perpetually attacked Harpomason. He’s like one of those old intellectuals sitting at a coffee shop, tolerant of all, nearly harmless, certainly undeserving of young bucks scolding him. At a certain age, you just can’t have your mind changed.

John Doe is the object of my apathy and accusations here, and I’ve stated that, I’d rather hang out with John Doe than a woman, even though he is incredibly dumb-he’s still our MGTOW brother no matter how ridiculously uneducated, young, and Crustian.

If you don’t like the expression ‘Crustian’ then I can’t help you. It’s a meme I picked up from the movie Leaves of Grass. If you feel offended at my disrespect for faith then I’m glad because that’s my intention. Tactless and unprofessional? I couldn’t care less. The faithful have been merciless brutes for thousands of years. It’s high time, out of reverence to their numberless victims, and now that the deed goes unpunished, to rightfully mock, humiliate and scream reason into the deaf ears of religion and it’s ignorant followers. I will never stop doing this. I’ll draw cartoons of Muhammad sucking off a camel, I don’t care. I’m ex USMC infantry, I’ve nearly bled to death on a gurney and I’m undeterred by the shaming and fear tactics of fundamentalists. Their ideology is both immoral and based on non sense. The god damn Crustians currently inflict just as much oppression and suffering as the Jihadists. One bomb on a bus killing 20 is just as bad as ruining millions of lives by stifling science and enforcing religious laws in the USA. The Crustians and Islamic terrorists are both morally obscene–both are equally deluded by dogma, both fueling the suffering of the species through that delusion.

In case you weren’t reading closely, or maybe this wasn’t clear on my part, I haven’t accused anyone of not reading except for John Doe. He’s a maniac mystic. His dad is probably William Lane Craig.

With respect to you Wolfgar, I wasn’t talking to you man. I don’t understand why you posted all the Phd’s. Why would ally yourself with John Doe unless you are ignorant too?

This topic, Destiny vs. Freewill, is not rocket science. This is not a hard topic to be certain about. It’s only difficult for people who are either young or lacking in philosophical ability. Being indoctrinated by Crustianity doesn’t help either since it requires that people erroneously presume they have freewill. To be a Crustian, requires being so vain and unimaginative, that it’s a perfect wall to understanding something as simple as the illusion of freewill. What don’t you understand? The universe is CAUSAL. This means that freewill can’t exist, objectively, period! We no more choose our thoughts than we choose our ethnicity. This means that freewill makes no sense subjectively either! What’s so f~~~ing hard to understand? 20 years of impartial scientists confirming our automation versus a handful of religious f~~~tards who can’t accept evidence. So why are people still posting here?! The results are in, FREEWILL IS NON EXISTENT. Glad you learned something. Oh wait, you didn’t like the way it was told to you? Go f~~~ yourself.

There is no argument here, only vain people who utterly fail to think objectively about the human condition. They fail to account for (subjective) first person bias. It’s no wonder they fall for anthropomorphic delusion and attend church. Their ‘freewill’ is parallel with claiming you can overcome gravity and fly without the aid of technology. Claiming you can fly is exactly like claiming you have freewill. Both s~~~ all over physics. It’s sad when it comes to having to humiliate people. It’s always necessary though when the religious nutters beat a dead horse over and over, decade after decade.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Terminal Meme wrote:

John Doe is the object of my apathy and accusations here, and I’ve stated that,

You do know that is a contradiction right?  Your accusing someone and ignoring them at the same time.

Terminal Meme wrote:

The results are in, FREEWILL IS NON EXISTENT. Glad you learned something. Oh wait, you didn’t like the way it was told to you? Go f~~~ yourself.

You are angry and swearing, so obviously it must be true.  How could I be so dumb?

You do understand that stating that the Universe is Causal means that you are saying there is a cause to the Universe?  You are saying that there is a cause to all existence.  A causal universe just means certain things are caused by others.  That is all you are literally saying.

Do you even know what causal means?  Here is the definition:

“of, relating to, or acting as a cause”

Oxford dictionary

This has to do nothing at all with free will.

Terminal Meme wrote:

John Doe is the object of my apathy and accusations here, and I’ve stated that, I’d rather hang out with John Doe than a woman, even though he is incredibly dumb-he’s still our MGTOW brother no matter how ridiculously uneducated, young, and Crustian.

I am glad you think of me so highly.  Because to be frank, after our conversations, I am under the impression that I just had a conversation with a woman.  Between the shaming language, subjective language, lack of personal control, and general contempt for everyone and everything I personally cannot tell the difference.

You give an argument I explain how and why it is wrong.  You claim I am wrong.  I respond why I am correct.  You ignore it.   All you do is scream and shout.  That is it.

Terminal Meme wrote:

One bomb on a bus killing 20 is just as bad as ruining millions of lives by stifling science and enforcing religious laws in the USA.

What religious laws are we enforcing that are worse than killing twenty people?

What science have we stifled?  Because to be fair the grand majority of scientists claimed divine inspiration in some form or manner.   And the stifling of science in the time of Galileo I already addressed as misinterpretation of history.

Terminal Meme wrote:

Being indoctrinated by Crustianity doesn’t help either since it requires that people erroneously presume they have freewill.

Terminal Meme wrote:

They fail to account for (subjective) first person bias.

Athiesm is about as subjective as it gets.  If the individual either doesn’t understand it through their own personal reasoning skills or has not observed it through personal sensory experience then it cannot constitute truth.  It is all about the “I” in many respects.

You want to talk about not being bias but half of your argument is emotionally charged and lacks proof.  I even give the definitions of reason, and many other terms, and you still misuse or confuse the meanings.  That is if you do not avoid them all together.

Terminal Meme wrote:

There is no argument here, only vain people who utterly fail to think objectively about the human condition

Even when I am an asshole I explain how and why.  The best you can do is call others stupid and say “f~~~ you.”  Face it, your argument is emotionally charged and far from objective.  You claim the importance of “reading” but ignore anything Wolfgar brings to the table.  You can hate religion all you want.  Scream and rage and call us stupid.  But that is okay.  Go ahead keep going.  I or someone else will always be here to correct your philosophical and historical errors and misconceptions.  That is okay Terminal,  it is no big deal.

You claim we are “evil” but the universe created us this way according to you.  What you are saying is that the universe is wrong.  But it can’t be because it created you too.  Which means, according to your reasoning, there is either no right or wrong or right or wrong can exist at the same time in the same respect (which would nullify each other and leave us with option one).

 

[Beware the LamiaeSpectator 89]

Quit being a bitch John.

We live in a causal universe, dictated in total by cause and effect. Every present moment, all it’s energy and matter, is purely the result from past events leading like an unstoppable domino drop back to the big bang. Absolutely nothing can change the domino drop. It’s an avalanche of matter and energy racing outward since the big bang. If you exist in spacetime, you are locked in this chain. No freewill period. This is indisputable, objective proof of the absence of freewill.

Subjectively. We have a conscious life that seems like we do author our actions. THIS IS AN ILLUSION JOHN, proven in the lab many times by many different IMPARTIAL scientists. The brain makes decisions BEFORE we think we make them. Proven over and over again. If you pay attention to your subjective experience (meditation) you can actually observe this perpetual state of being directed. We simply do not choose our thoughts or which ice cream we’ll pick, or what clothes we wear etc… The exact same as our inability to choose eye color, height or place of birth. The feeling that we do choose things IS AN ILLUSION.

Let’s hear some more of your bulls~~~ “One can choose his path, destiny is where that path leads.” Nice John. Join the Film Actors Guild. “Illusions can’t exist without freewill.” Brilliant John. Read a book bitch.

 

 

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Beware the Lamiae wrote:

This is indisputable, objective proof of the absence of freewill.

I could state the obvious…these are all theories.  With that being said if everything was a dominoe drop, this “drop” would still be subject to external laws which in and of themselves are non physical.

Beware the Lamiae wrote:

THIS IS AN ILLUSION JOHN, proven in the lab many times by many different IMPARTIAL scientists.

What scientists and experiments are you talking about?  I dealt with the Harris thing already.  Also an illusion is unnecessary in a world without free will.  There is no law requiring deception where deception is not necessary.

Beware the Lamiae wrote:

The brain makes decisions BEFORE we think we make them.

FMRIs only measure brain activity through electrical impulses.  Last time I checked the brain was an actual part of the human being.  So to say the brain made decisions before I made them would be basically saying a part of me made a decision before a part of me.  Also one would have to point out the separation of making the decision and feeling the decision.  These are two separate things.

The studies in regards to this are inconclusive and if you wish to point me out as wrong then site an example.  You say “scientists” say this but quote none.  You claim experiments but quote none.

Beware the Lamiae wrote:

Let’s hear some more of your bulls~~~ “One can choose his path, destiny is where that path leads.” Nice John. Join the Film Actors Guild. “Illusions can’t exist without freewill.”

Okay if you say so.  In regards to the first statement.  One can choose how they live but how they live will have certain consequences.  Take for example exercise.  I can choose not to exercise and I will become fat or develop specific health problems.  Or I can choose to exercise and maintain a healthy weight and not develop certain health problems.

In regards to the illusions.  An illusion is to believe what isn’t true.  If I had no free will and I believed what was not true then I would be doing so as subject to the laws of physics or mathematics in effect I would be committing a right act by following the laws of the universe (physics/mathematics) however because it was untrue then it would have to be against the laws of the universe (physics/mathematics).  In this sense the laws of the universe nullify themselves and I am left with the possibility of free will.

[Qbeck01Participant 57]

harpo-my-“SON” wrote:

… Obviously being a MGTOW is a free will choice not to bend to the expectations of women and society. At least it’s obvious to me. It’s just my humble opinion but I doubt you will find many MGTOW who would willingly jump on the bandwagon of destiny. Who would willingly?

Is being MGTOW an act of free will? Or are we responding to the environment of gynocentrism? Traditionalism was a response to the environment of the per-industrial past, Feminism can be said to be just another effect caused by instinctual hypergamy and modern advances that have changed the environment. A change that reduces the need women have for men. I see an inevitable chain of cause and effect…is MGTOW just another link in that chain. Free will / determinism.

 

 

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Qbeck01 wrote:

I see an inevitable chain of cause and effect

There will be a “chain of cause and effect” even if one isn’t an  MGTOW.  A choice always has results, if it didn’t then it wouldn’t be a choice.  Every action has consequences.

Also,  prove it.

[Terminal MemeParticipant 57]

John Doe wrote:

I dealt with the Harris thing already.

Roger that, a child with no scientific education has debunked scores of neuroscientists. Yeah, you’ve dealt with Harris. Harris sells a million books while earning a Phd. Meanwhile,  you learn everything you know from you Sunday School teacher and wikipedia. And you’re not a pretentious, arrogant, jesus freak 20 year old who lives with his mommy? You’re probably counting the days until Bible Camp, eager to hit third base with some pimply ginger chick.

John Doe wrote:

Also an illusion is unnecessary in a world without free will.  There is no law requiring deception where deception is not necessary.

I knew if I kept visiting, I’d soon witness another marvel of stupidity. You consistently say new and even more retarded s~~~. How can anyone address this quote above? How can they begin to try and 1st understand your madness, but then put into words that you’d understand, how you’re so off track that, they should euthanize your brain.

“Look at me, Im John Doe, fountain of truth! I declare that freewill was granted to us from a non-physical dimension ruled by Jesus, illusions can’t be real without freewill, destiny and freewill aren’t opposed, they compliment each other.”

LMFAO “compliment” eachother? Did you just learn that word John? Philosophy isn’t a f~~~ing color wheel douchebag! You need to schedule a fMRI dude!

[Yellow WizardParticipant 41]

I’d like to get back to finding some utility in this topic. I think I have something useful to say concerning free will and MGTOW.

The atheist MGTOW (myself, Terminal Meme, and Qbeck among them) seem to concur. We believe in, as Qbeck put it, the “inevitable chain of cause and effect.” And of course this rattles the sensibilities of harpomason, who like Neo in the Matrix, refuses to believe he’s not in control. I think the discord between these two positions is one of syntax. So here’s a word that might act as a catalyst and distinguish the two as separate but non competitive notions. The word is HABIT.

From the grand perspective, cause and effect rules all. It seems if you had a consciousness that could examine all variables within a system then you could predict how any particular element within the system would act. This is so even if the system had consciousnesses (or agents) within it, since agents are composed of variables that can themselves be predicted. The individual “choices” that a consciousness within the system has are illusions because from the macro perspective the “choices” themselves are predictable. I’m ok with this MACRO perspective.

Additionally, from the MICRO perspective, Terminal Meme’s neuroscience indicates that decisions are made by us on a subconscious level before we are even aware of their existence. Basically, I think this is saying that we have knee jerk reactions to things that we THINK we have choices about. This is especially true of women within MGTOW doctrine. It’s like women’s choices are almost programmed. For example, they like the “bad boys” and not the “good guys”, even when it goes against their self interests. Women don’t appear sentient since their decisions seem like knee jerk reactions. But do we as men need to fall into this trap?

I’ve recently read a book by Charles Duhigg called The Power of Habit. In it he describes the ways we get programmed into being so predictable. His psychological model consists of Cues, Routines, and Rewards. It sort of expands on Behaviorism (remember Pavlov’s salivating dogs?) for everyday life. What makes this such a good self help book is that it teaches the reader to recognize the ways that our habits are self defeating, and prescribes a methodology to gain control of oneself for the better. After considering this I can’t help but compare habit to destiny. By changing habits you change the very outcomes of life.

My point? I believe that some of us are talking about “Destiny versus Free Will”, while others are talking about “Habit versus Willpower”.  In this regard I see the bickering as semantic.

I believe that fate exists, but I have yet to find a consciousness capable of making use of it. I also believe that we are creatures of unthinking habit, which itself is a lot LIKE fate. But as MGTOW we are accustomed to defying human nature. We have the capacity to create NEW habits and behaviors, to defy gynocentric programming, and to create fulfilling lives of self improvement. In this regard I think we can all share harpomason’s optimism.

[WolfgarParticipant 21]

Terminal,

Terminal Meme wrote:

If you don’t like the expression ‘Crustian’ then I can’t help you. It’s a meme I picked up from the movie Leaves of Grass. If you feel offended at my disrespect for faith then I’m glad because that’s my intention.

I felt offended by you after the first post of yours that I read.  But I haven’t felt that way since.  Every post of yours that I now read I feel pity for you because you are so deluded.

You have made it abundantly clear that you not only have disrespect for faith but have an absolute hatred of it.  And I know that you will never stop using insults like “Crustian”.  That is why I did not make that comment to you, Terminal, but to Elemental.  It was a statement to bring attention to a point of hypocrisy Elemental was showing.

Terminal Meme wrote:

I’m undeterred by the shaming and fear tactics of fundamentalists.

Fundamentalist:
strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles
Address : <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fundamentalists?s=t&gt;

That sounds like you.  You are a staunch evolutionist.  But being a fundamentalist is not a bad thing.  The question is what are you being fundamental about.  You have mentioned being in Iraq and “nearly bled to death” so I’m assuming you are referring to fundamentalist muslims when you wrote

Terminal Meme wrote:

Their ideology is both immoral and based on non sense.

I agree with that.  But don’t confuse this and other immoral systems of belief with true Biblical Christianity.  Jesus said
(Joh 15:13)  Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

This does not mean being a suicide bomber.  It means taking a bullet to prevent your friend from dying.  This means if I knew, that by my death, your life would be spared then I would take that bullet to keep you alive.  Especially you Terminal because I know how lost you are.  And if my death will provide you with a little bit more time to find the truth then it would be worth it.  That is the fruit of true Biblical Christianity.  Not inflicting suffering and oppression onto people.  And if anyone does that and claims to be a Christian then that is all it is – a claim.  Anybody can claim to be anything they want.  It’s your actions that prove one way or the other.

Terminal Meme wrote:

The god damn Crustians currently inflict just as much oppression and suffering as the Jihadists.

Have I ever oppressed you? Or made you suffer?

Let’s see who has inflicted the most suffering and oppression.  According to Ph.D. author R. J. Rummel in a book named “Death by Government” he lists a few stats:
61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
Address : <http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM&gt;

These were the top two positions and what do they have in common?  They are both communist countries and atheism is an integral part of totalitarian socialism or communism.  Your belief system, not mine, has murdered almost 100 million people in one century alone in just two countries.

Which belief system is worse for humanity?

And this “illusion of free will” philosophy gives people the “out” to commit any act they want without guilt, because if there is no free will then they’re not responsible for their actions.  “I can do anything that I want.”  “Do what thou wilt.”  That is what the “illusion of free will” philosophy logically concludes.  You accuse Christians of not “understanding something as simple as the illusion of free will”.  I understand the concept just fine but have rejected it for a multitude of reasons which JD and others have done a great job of explaining.  “Illusion of free will” is the opium of the evolutionists.

Terminal Meme wrote:

It’s sad when it comes to having to humiliate people.

Humiliate:
to cause (a person) a painful loss of pride, self-respect, or dignity; mortify.
Address : <http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/humiliate?s=t&gt;

You haven’t humiliated anybody except yourself.  And insults?  If you feel like wasting your time by writing them and everybody elses time reading them then go ahead.  They don’t offend, humiliate or anger me.
(Mat 5:11)  Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

[WolfgarParticipant 21]

Terminal Meme wrote:

Harris sells a million books while earning a Phd.

He sold a million books.  So what.  Chris Kyle sold over a million books too.

First published in 2012, American Sniper sold 1.2 million books across all formats (hardcover, paper and ebook) in 2012 and 2013, based on numbers provided to Publishers Weekly by the publisher.
Address : <http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/american-sniper-book-sales-see-770901&gt;

The problem is parts of the book were lies.

On July 29, 2014, a federal jury returned from six days of deliberations to award Ventura $1.845 million in damages—specifically, $500,000 for defamation and about $1.345 million for unjust enrichment. (In other words, Kyle unjustly profited from defaming Ventura, and so his estate must give Ventura some of that money.)
Address : <http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/01/american_sniper_lawsuit_chris_kyle_told_lies_about_jesse_ventura.html&gt;

[Beware the LamiaeSpectator 89]

Yellow Wizard wrote:

a consciousness that could examine all variables within a system then you could predict how any particular element within the system would act. This is so even if the system had consciousnesses (or agents) within it,

   Well put! John Doe would do well to understand this since he’s certain that causality prevents illusions from occurring. Failure to think objectively.

To Wolfgar: Let’s keep the Christian angle out out this thread. I take full blame for that by attacking it here but the purpose of this thread is far more important than straightening out Christian non-sense. Go start s~~~ in the Atheist room seeing as John already ruined that space. In reply here, you know what I’m going to say. You can’t cherry-pick a book full of immorality and then say that True Biblical Christianity is what counts. The point is, we don’t need that book or it’s dogma to lead ethical lives. Next point that you already know I’m going to say. A few presumably atheist dictators who killed millions in the 20th century can’t hold a candle to the flame thrower of Abrahamic tradition. Quit excusing your murderous ideology, pointing fingers and cherry picking. True Christianity? Are you f~~~ing joking? You guys were burning people alive a short 150 years ago! Not much has changed since then, you still punish victimless crimes and halt scientific progression. You still start wars and brainwash foreign cultures, you still happily await armageddon as if it desirable, you still view the species as degenerate failures born in sin-only worthy of servitude to an invisible ruler, you still want people to fear death etc etc. You should rightly be ashamed to even try and defend Chrsitians but you’re too damned brainwashed by them. There’s absolutely no question about it, without the tedious progress science has made, no thanks to Christianity, we’d still be stoning/ burning people for imaginary crimes. I could go on.  That’s just a pebble on top of the glacier of frozen blood Christianity alone has inflicted on the human race. You will never win the moral debate in regards to defending religion. It’s impossible. Your best bet was to do what you did, which was quote a few stolen ideas that even homo Australopithecus would agree with.

In regard to the actual topic here, which is related to Christianity, the discovery of the absence of freewill not only destroys the foundation of Christianity on many levels but it offers us a dramatically more moral way to live. And it’s foundation can’t be denied. On the freewill/Christian view of life; hate, pride and especially shame are encouraged. The most destructive of human emotions have been suddenly ruled valueless by our discovery of being automated in a deterministic universe. How does it makes sense to hate someone when you see their actions are in total, the result of circumstance they didn’t choose? On the same token, arrogant pride is also pointless. And the most important, shame is now empty of meaning. Anyone who has ever combated addiction with alcohol or drugs can appreciate this. Even the 12 steps of AA, when robbed of the anthropomorphic god and dogma, is a declaration of automation. Powerlessness, acceptance of it.

We’re honestly talking about the bedrock for global peace. Showing people the truth, verified by science, indisputable. Showing them that they need not fear death, that there is no after-life so seize every precious moment in life. And while you’re living, don’t be ashamed! While you live, don’t hate others! While you live, be humble not proud! Finally, science can verify why we should do these things, instead of well-intentioned religious maniacs trying to scare us into right behavior or outright killing us if we don’t accept. There is no virtue in faith, it’s literally certainty without evidence and it allows people by the millions to do immoral s~~~ that only lunatics could do on their own.

It’s imperative that you educate yourself and cease believing in Freewill and Christianity.

 

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