Destiny vs Free Will

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

Is there such thing as wasted thought?  Is the time you spend pondering theory and Questions that start with the words “what if” valuable? If that  time has value then pondering on matters which you have no control over could be conceived as wasted thought.     Are you destined to think this way? or Do you have a choice?

What if we pondered only on matters which are really under our control? would this approach result in a more valuable use of our intellect?

I believe  It could if we would fight the urge to ask the stupid questions: Do we have free will?  or Are we really in control  of anything?

Some people may say there are no stupid questions but if that’s true: What kind of questions do stupid people ask?   Does the moron suddenly get an attack of intelligence immediately before asking a question?

Obviously being a  MGTOW  is a free will  choice not to bend to the expectations of women and society. At least it’s obvious to me. It’s just my humble opinion but I doubt you will find many MGTOW who would willingly  jump on the bandwagon of destiny. Who would willingly?

Practical ideas that could be expanded on and implemented into use may be a more valuable way to think. This reminds me of the boycott list.  I believe it’s a good idea. MGTOW helping the homeless was another idea with merit.

I consider it an insult to question my free will.  If I see any of you riding the bandwagon of destiny I will upset the carriage and scatter the lot of you.  Don’t take this to mean I don’t  believe in destiny.  I do believe in destiny and free will. They both do  exist.

I am destiny!  I am  that hidden power that controls my fate, and so are you!

 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[Soul ManParticipant 1856]

What if it’s your destiny to pursue your free will?  Hmmmmm?

Danger!  Critical mass ahead!  🙂

HISTORY...learn from it, memorize it, DON'T repeat it...

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

I laughed at that. so funny. I am destiny! I won’t waste time getting even close to critical mass. Your question started with “What if” does that make it a stupid question or a waste of time contemplating? Still it made me think about it long enough to find the humor.

Soul Man.  Hope your day was pleasant and productive.

 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[RoyDalParticipant]

Is Free Will an Illusion? Scientists, Philosophers Forced to Differ
http://www.livescience.com/19213-free-fate.html

Dilbert stated free will is an illusion in a recent strip. Now, who can argue with that?

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[Soul ManParticipant 1856]

harpo-my-“SON” wrote:

I laughed at that. so funny. I am destiny! I won’t waste time getting even close to critical mass. Your question started with “What if” does that make it a stupid question or a waste of time contemplating? Still it made me think about it long enough to find the humor. Soul Man. Hope your day was pleasant and productive.

haha!  yeah I’m difficult like that sometimes.

HISTORY...learn from it, memorize it, DON'T repeat it...

[peterfaParticipant 833]

If you don’t have free will, then any determination or articulation was determined. Therefore, nothing you say has any meaning, including such conclusion. It’s a self-defeating statement.

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

Oh my, I am defeated by my own logic. much respect for my foe.

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[mikaalParticipant 6]

In recent weeks I have begun to consider destiny the illusion and free will a complicated series of events in the human process. I mean we can act on our own, but even when we do that its based on instinct, personality, and how we are raised to act in our society. Destiny seems like its an excuse people use to offset responsibility for their actions. I could not deal with that though. Thinking or “knowing” I am not responsible for my life or its events is exactly like being a child.

[RoyDalParticipant]

For these purposes, I am going to accept the definition of free will given by the philosopher on the panel:

Free will, in her opinion, is being capable of stepping back from one’s existing motivations and habits and making a reasoned decision among various alternatives. “The claim that a person chose her action does not conflict with the claim that some neural processes or states caused it; it simply redescribes it,”

It is my observation that people who actually use their rational minds to make important decisions amount to a single-digit percentage of the whole population. The rest run their lives on instinct and impulses, which is not free will.

Thus, free will can be done; it is done, but it is exceedingly rare. However, our species survived because of irrational impulses. It’s a survival trait, or else it would not be so prevalent.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

RoyDal  I like that definition, To step outside the normal motivations and expectations and find other  choices shows some conscious control.

Glad I have others expressing opinion on this matter. I still find it insulting to be given limited choices only to  be shamed for refusing to choose  or choosing an option not given.

I particularly like it when they say after the fact..  You can’t say that  or you can’t do that. You can’t talk to me that way.

Don’t you just love  saying:     “Well I just did.”   I like to make the claim at that time, “and it was an act of free will.”

Its hard to dispute the claim after you just did or said something they was not expecting.

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

What if it’s your destiny to pursue your free will?

That would mean we did not have it to begin with.   One does not pursue what they don’t have.

<span style=”font-family: Thread-00003da4-Id-000001d7;”>Is Free Will an Illusion?</span>

A function of an illusion is deception.  Illusions deceive.  To deceive implies a choice is present otherwise there is no purpose to decieve.  Choice requires free will.

I ask my self what is the “freest” action I can do?  As of currently my thoughts lean towards “believing”.  Belief is one of the greatest acts of free will.  However what we believe decides who we are and what our destiny is.  Our beliefs are the only things we really possess, which is why philosophical and religious debates always become heated.  Because everyone is protecting their “territory”.

The term “destiny” is similar to the term destination.  When one ponders their own destiny they are pondering their own “destination” in one respect or another.  To ponder “destiny” is to ponder our current actions and where they are going more than anything.

The term “free will” in essence means a “will that is free”.  One can do as they choose.   Now there are some things in life one has no choice over, such as working and dying.  However working is acting out free will and mortality gives us the freedom to act by erasing the necessity of our actions.  If our actions were necessary, in and of themselves, we could not be free.  So the things we  have “no choice over” are rather embodiments of free will itself.

I don’t think Destiny goes against Free will, I think they both compliment each other in different respects.   One could ask the question, why does destiny have to go against free will?  They are both  different things.

There is a saying that “one can only choose how they play the hand they are dealt with”.  This is a metaphor for life and free will.   However if they play that hand in manner that allows them to continue “the game” there is no guarantee that they won’t be dealt that hand again.  The only guarantee, as part of the game, is that they will be given something.

I could write more however I decided to be lazy today.

[VarofParticipant 4]

Idk if my post was submitted, so here I go again.

I think that, at the beginning of the universe, a situation similar to billiards occurred; the pool stick (whatever it was) hit the cue ball (the beginning of the universe), with the right angle, direction, force, and in the right location to set it on its current motion, because these factors will dictate how the cue ball moves. But it happened in such a way that it hit one ball, and then they both hit others, and a chain reaction started. That’s what it’s like for every atom, and because of how everything began it decided every thought, action, and emotion, and every situation and environment we find ourselves in.

While we feel that we have free will, everything was already decided in a vast and complex chain of cause and effect.

[RoyDalParticipant]

Here is a book about exactly this topic.

Subliminal: How Your Unconscious Mind Rules Your Behavior
by Leonard Mlodinow

Publisher: Pantheon; 1 edition (April 24, 2012)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 9780307378217
ISBN-13: 978-0307378217

http://www.amazon.com/Subliminal-Your-Unconscious-Rules-Behavior/dp/0307378217/

I am listening to this author being interviewed on the radio as I write. It is very interesting stuff. I’m going to dig up a copy.

>>> SPOILER ALERT <<<

Subliminal influences work. It takes vigilance above and beyond the ordinary to spot them at work on you and act counter to them.

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Edward Bernays.

[Anonymous 2]

If one has a destiny, would one be able to discern it as such, or attribute events to free will because one is not?

[RoyDalParticipant]

If one has a destiny, would one be able to discern it as such, or attribute events to free will because one is not?

That is a very good question. The answer seems to be far more of our behavior is controlled by our genes than we allow ourselves to believe. In other words, when we honestly believe we are acting out of free will, we really are obeying genetically coded commands. This tips it toward destiny. I think destiny impels but does not compel.

Here is a quote from the article below:
“Furthermore, identical twins reared apart were eerily similar to identical twins reared together on various measures of personality, occupational and leisure-time interests, and social attitudes.”

Straight Talk about Twin Studies, Genes, and Parenting: What Makes Us Who We Are
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/200810/straight-talk-about-twin-studies-genes-and-parenting-what-makes-us-who

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[John DoeParticipant 743]

If behavior was defined only by genetics, one would have to find a gene which steers one into studying genetics itself.

Genes do influence behavior, however studies show that genes can be turned on or turned off.  This leads to more questions.

Genes are a factor in influencing behavior, but not the be all end all.

 

If one has a destiny, would one be able to discern it as such, or attribute events to free will because one is not?

Destiny is the endpoint of all our actions and decision making.  Every acting thing has a destiny.   To discern ones destiny would be an act of hindsight or foresight.

Hindsight if looking back and figuring out how one got to a point in life.   Foresight if one is looking into the future to see where their choices are taking them.  Neither is inherently accurate though.

One can still have free will regardless of what their destinies are.   Free will is basically making a choice of action.   One can choose the sights, smells, tastes, etc they experience.  Usually people pick what they like.  But do they have to?  No, often times they don’t.

We can have control over somethings, but not everything.

 

[KeymasterKeymaster]

@varof I just found your reply in spam and have “unspammed” it. Very sorry but it’s unclear how that happened.A handful can go into spam due to questionable links but there is no explanation for this (from what I can tell). Just wanted to let you know, and hope it’s not a deterrent. Please feel free to post and let me know if you have difficulty again. Big thanks.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[SHAMANParticipant 1]

Define your terms. There is a sense in which “free will” (f~~~ing loaded), or better said choice exists, and other senses in which it does not.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

There is a sense in which “free will” (f~~~ing loaded), or better said choice exists, and other senses in which it does not.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/free%20will

<span class=”oneClick-link oneClick-available”>free</span> <span class=”oneClick-link”>and</span> <span class=”oneClick-link oneClick-available”>independent</span> <span class=”oneClick-link”>choice;</span> <span class=”oneClick-link oneClick-available”>voluntary</span> <span class=”oneClick-link oneClick-available”>decision:</span>

[Author]

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