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Tagged: accountability, causality, freewill determinism
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John Doe 1 year, 1 month ago.
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To add one thing here. Educating the masses of the truth of the illusion of freewill isn’t going perfectly cure shame, hate and pride. It will void the reasoning behind it though so people, in the eat of their emotions, will have to admit that they have no reason to act this way. It will help.
Roger that, a child with no scientific education has debunked scores of neuroscientists. Yeah, you’ve dealt with Harris. Harris sells a million books while earning a Phd.
Actually one of his books was his Phd and he actually did not commit the research himself. A co-author did. And his Phd was largely financed by the non-profit he put up. But I already discussed that and as always you ignore it. Also he currently does not teach at any universities nor works in a lab so the “neuroscientist” title is self imposed. He also has not produced any works, branching from his Phd, as to science can solve moral problems. But none of this matters. Why you may ask? Fallacy of Authority. But you know this fallacy already so there is no need to remind you.
In regards to myself I have a bachelors in criminal justice but formerly majored in philosophy. I actually had to read/study a decent amount of various topics that are related to this discussion. However, I do not believe one has to have a degree to point out that bulls~~~ is bulls~~~. A child could make my observations. This is not rocket science.
I’d like to get back to finding some utility in this topic.
I don’t agree with you elemental but I +1 you just for this comment. Regardless of our differences I can respect this. The swearing gets old, it avoids the point, and I don’t want to anger terminal to the point of a PTSD suicidal shooting spree. He is a mentally and emotionally
From the grand perspective, cause and effect rules all.
unstable therefore irrational. But getting to your points:
Terminal Meme’s neuroscience indicates that decisions are made by us on a subconscious level before we are even aware of their existence.
There are several issues with this study. The primary being that the FMRI observed the parts of the brain which has an emotional reaction to the decision (if I read correctly). This was interpreted at awareness. Second subconscious is still a form of consciousness. To be aware is not just an emotional or logical reaction to a specific stimulous/event but an underlying deeper form of consciousness itself.
The study provided only insights to physical mechanisms of thought. By admitting to a subconscious, as you had done, you are stating that there was some form of awareness in the decision making process.
From the grand perspective, cause and effect rules all.
Actually is doesn’t because for cause and effect to work you would need and uncaused cause.
Also cause and effect, on its own terms, would have to generate free will in the terms of choice. A choice cannot exist without cause and effect. Because to choose without a result would be no choice at all.
The issue with “cause and effect” is that it can allow free will as much as prohibit it. It allows free will through choice, but limits us to choice. However free will does exist.
After considering this I can’t help but compare habit to destiny.
I think you gave a more palatable response in this regard than I did. I used the term “path” which is open to misinterpretation. Habit would be a better word. Which that being said, we can choose our habits which in effect define a destiny in some respects.
Elemental, I think we are beginning to agree on something.
And this “illusion of free will” philosophy gives people the “out” to commit any act they want without guilt, because if there is no free will then they’re not responsible for their actions.
Very true +1. Men who ascribe to this philosophy either have done something which has caused an insane amount of guilt they cannot process or have bad habits they rather justify than rid themselves of.
Well put! John Doe would do well to understand this since he’s certain that causality prevents illusions from occurring. Failure to think objectively.
Causality does not prevent illusions from occurring because causality does not prevent free will. A lack of free will prevents illusions from occuring. Big difference. I believe in a limited Causality for the record. But Causality does not inhibit free will, if anything because of variable it has to create it.
Eventually a concious being will run into two equal variables and in this sense a choice will have to be made.
With that being said we do not possess a consciousness that sees all variables so the argument is irrelevant.
Go start s~~~ in the Atheist room seeing as John already ruined that space.
I didn’t ruin it, I just pointed out the contradictions and inconsistencies. With that being said I haven’t shouted swear words on your thread like many of your friends did.
The point is, we don’t need that book or it’s dogma to lead ethical lives.
Athiesm has not ethical system based on reason or science.
A few presumably atheist dictators who killed millions in the 20th century can’t hold a candle to the flame thrower of Abrahamic tradition.
The Egyptians and Babylonians/etc. did the same things. Many even sacrificed their own children as fire offerings. This is false.
You guys were burning people alive a short 150 years ago!
Governments everywhere did this. All governments secular or religious have “persecutions”. It is a natural facet of government.
You still start wars and brainwash foreign cultures,
This makes no sense because the majority of governments in the western hemisphere are secular in nature, examples please.
, without the tedious progress science has made, no thanks to Christianity,
Actually monasteries helped preserve much of the information from antiquity throughout the dark ages. Induction, brought about by Aristotle, is promoted by the church. Much of the scientific method can be traced to a synthesis of philosophers and theologians from antiquity, Catholicism, and Islam. The concept of Zero was found by pagan Aztecs. Algebraic Mathematics through Islam. Philosophy and the scientific method through Catholicism.
You will never win the moral debate in regards to defending religion. It’s impossible.
Uhh….we have a moral debate. We explain how and why we are right. You haven’t offered anything but shaming language laminae. Reread your whole post. It is just name calling and shaming language.
On the freewill/Christian view of life; hate, pride and especially shame are encouraged.
Uhh…you hate us then blame it on us. I am actually confused were you got most of our information because it is false. If you can give some examples, because I am under the impression you hate what you do not even know.
We’re honestly talking about the bedrock for global peace. Showing people the truth, verified by science, indisputable.
Not even close, I and many others have debunked your philosophies and examples.
It’s imperative that you educate yourself and cease believing in Freewill and Christianity.
Ohh…well you said so, so it must be true. How stupid could I be?
John Doe, you are truly a f~~~ing idiot. From your avatar pic, to your name and literally every comment you’ve polluted MGTOW.com with; it all points to one inescapable conclusion–f~~~ing idiot. The good news is you can change. You can admit your error and stand behind reason.
I think you need to get some daylight, move out of your parents house, get a real job, some exercise, and grow up. I wasted 3 years of my life in the Marines filling sand bags and another 6 years after that drinking alcoholically. I wasted my time in high school blazing weed and still haven’t finished community college. I survived an extremely serious attempt on my life (throat slit). I’ve never made more than 25K a year and despite all this s~~~, I have 10x’s more intelligence and security in my life. I own my own condo, live alone and have a life. I did it all without ever accepting money from family. I paid my own way surviving on the opportunities that friends provided. You desperately need to change the course your life is headed. First you need to leave your mom and quit the religious wish thinking, accept reality.
You have nothing bro. You said you have a college education! So why do you live with your mom bro? If you respect yourself or MGTOW, you’d move out! If you went to college, how is it that you doubt the validity of scientifically published facts such as the truth of evolution and determinism in neurology. HOW DARE YOU!
Be glad you’re safe behind your computer to infect MGTOW pages with your retarded trains of thought. Only fools keep reading what you have to say. The rest of us know better than to entertain the adolescent musings of a Crustian dirtbag. But like I said, you are still our brother and you are still salvageable. You just need to stop thinking you know it all and swallow the red pills your fellow man has laid for you. Merely visiting MGTOW daily and s~~~ting all over the forums is not red pill. You lead a BLUE PILL life of servitude to a god that doesn’t exist and living with your mom (may as well be married, same f~~~ing thing) You have to be a MAN to be a MGTOW son.
All is forgiven and I wish you no harm. But you need to swallow the red pills in your personal life and ditch the jail cell that is faith. The facts are here. Im done with this thread and Im done with John Doe. Abandon your account, change your thinking and life, then come back as a real MGTOW with a decent MGTOW name. Good bye and hope your transformation goes well. See you on the other side.
Beware the Lamiae- I admire your fierce independence. I’ve shared that ethic. Always stand on your own two feet and never ask for handouts. The masses beg for free s~~~ but they, inevitably, sacrifice their dignity and pride.
Anonymous5To let go of the very things that keep your heart beating is the … THE test. And let me tell you this. If you dare to throw your T.V out the window be very prepared what will happens next. Someone some thing some idea will find you. Nature is tired of manginas and she wants a man. F~~~ you world. Look where free humans have ended up? You p3ople who have destroyed our faith in wom3n. How dare you! One day. O e day.
Elemental- I was being a wee bit poetic in my post about “the inevitable chain of cause and effect”. A billiard ball or domino view of reality is more of a Newtonian view of matter in motion.
Albert Einstein said: “As I have said so many times, God doesn’t play dice with the world.” What he was referring to was Quantum mechanics success in making experimental predictions by accounting for the randomness in sub atomic particles. Einstein believed future discoveries would resolve this randomness.
This randomness was never resolved and a better understanding has shown that this randomness is a fundamental part of the world.
Many people mistake randomness as free will. I think you hit the nail on the head with your distinction of habit and intentional action.
When one is acting as an agent, acting purposefully, only then can you be said to have free will. Regrettably, most never escape their habits.
Anonymous5John Doe you are a very crazy man one i would’nt mind seeing cry out as I force my fingers into your eyes. How do you think you have the right? We are all gods or demons. And for once I would’nt mind telln a f~~~ like you how I can find where you live. Go cry. And yes I am crazy. Crazy for freedom. Muhahaha quote this. Hack my I.p- double dare.
I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.
John Doe you are a very crazy man one i would’nt mind seeing cry out as I force my fingers into your eyes. How do you think you have the right? We are all gods or demons. And for once I would’nt mind telln a f~~~ like you how I can find where you live. Go cry. And yes I am crazy. Crazy for freedom. Muhahaha quote this. Hack my I.p- double dare.
First of all no death threats here, that is un-MGTOW. Second:
I think you need to get some daylight, move out of your parents house, get a real job, some exercise, and grow up. I wasted 3 years of my life in the Marines filling sand bags and another 6 years after that drinking alcoholically. I wasted my time in high school blazing weed and still haven’t finished community college. I survived an extremely serious attempt on my life (throat slit). I’ve never made more than 25K a year and despite all this s~~~, I have 10x’s more intelligence and security in my life. I own my own condo, live alone and have a life. I did it all without ever accepting money from family. I paid my own way surviving on the opportunities that friends provided. You desperately need to change the course your life is headed. First you need to leave your mom and quit the religious wish thinking, accept reality.
The thread is about destiny vs freewill. I gave a response in regards to causality. You ignored them. A conscious being will be forced into making a choice eventually when given the option of two equal simultaneously variables occurring. It is inevitable if everything is “possible” according to random nature of things as you have pointed out.
Then went on a rant about how you hate your life. So I live at home because its cheap and my dad is sick, sue me. I have security clearances for working on some of the nations Nuclear power plants and my starting salary/rate is hire then yours. You said f~~~ you to everything and everybody because you wanted to be a “unique individual with his own rules”. I will be working again near nuclear reactors in a few weeks, when I am not doing that I will be renovating a hotel. You will be pulling leaves out of someones gutters or pushing around a bucket of mop water. Now you have a dishonorable discharge, a drug record, and need job handouts (probably cleaning others s~~~) for 9hr from friends who are probably laughing at you behind your back or feel bad for you. That is were your pride led you. And what dignity?
So do yourself the favor and stay out of the personal attacks. You are not good at them. And why don’t you quote another NYC bestsellers book that everyone has read, and then point out how all my arguments are “fallacy of authority”.
You can’t even do personal attacks well laminae, just stay out of the argument altogether if you are going to behave like this.
This randomness was never resolved and a better understanding has shown that this randomness is a fundamental part of the world
Randomness cannot exist on its own terms without a prior order. The random movement of molecules still requires a prerequisite order of all molecules existing to begin with. Randomness cannot exist on its own without a prerequisite order or it would be nothingness.
Please, keep the thread on tract.
Anonymous42Hey JDoe, My friend lives at home too. He worked at VT Yankee nuclear power plant. FBI investigated him before he was allowed on the job-site, NRC has everything stamped with a sticker before it’s allowed on site. He owns 20+ acres that can be seen in the aerial photos I posted in Manly Things. He’s building his home this summer, I’m going to setup a machine shop in his spacious garage. He also likes my idea of using his property as a landing strip for ultra-lights. Don’t let anybody shame you! I stayed at home till I was in my late 20’s. I avoided the cost of rent, marriage, and saved enough money to purchase a dilapidated property, now my home. The insults and degradation on this post, and others, has lead me to decide to not participate. I make no threats to anybody anywhere, but I am willing and able to defend myself when actually provoked. Just like in real life, I avoid ALL confrontation that is avoidable, and strike without warning when threatened. I can and will kill another human being that has the Gaul to dominate through their own reprieved superiority. Power is weakness! Humility is strength! Subterfuge is a virtue!
FBI investigated him before he was allowed on the job-site, NRC has everything stamped with a sticker before it’s allowed on site.
Yeah I remember that, I went through it last year. Fortunately, because it only has to be renewed every so many years I don’t have to take it again. It was a real pain in the ass. I had to go through a battery of psychological tests and interviews. On the bright side I got paid for it.
In some part of the plant you are not even allowed to carry razor blades.
It would be stupid not to live at home if you had the option. I understand some guys can’t, but there is no reason to leave unless you are married or are traveling. Renting a condo just to be one’s own man, then depending on friends for jobs makes no sense. Everyone needs everyone whether we want to admit to it or not.
These personal attacks only prove to me that many of these posters literally have no clue as to what they are talking about. I point out a contradiction, it is ignored. I respond to an “attack” it is ignored.
I never had much respect for Athiesm, but now I am losing respect for its followers. I think I am becoming the fool by responding to this stuff.
Anonymous42If speech aggravates a person; how much more would uncontrollable situations debase the same person? A good solid foundation for personal control, is “self control”. To control ones emotions, one must overcome the provocations that spark emotion. Emotional attacks only expose intellectual weakness.
Intellectual strength is like a sword that has been properly hardened. It will not shatter against a stone, rather it will only loose it’s edge. Personal attacks and physical threats only expose ones intellectual weakness. To be strong of mind and will is the ability to remain calm in the most harshest of provocative conditions, being the essence of self awareness, and the ability to comprehend. Tyranny has served to harden my soul, strengthen my resolve, and given me an edge!
If speech aggravates a person; how much more would uncontrollable situations debase the same person? A good solid foundation for personal control, is “self control”. To control ones emotions, one must overcome the provocations that spark emotion. Emotional attacks only expose intellectual weakness.
Put better than I did. +1. This is just an internet forum, and these “men” are freaking out. I somehow doubt they can function in the real world. Which is probably why they retreat here for shaming language etc.
The things is that they (personal attacks) offer no explanation or solution, they just deflect the argument all together. So regardless of feelings, these personal attacks literally do not help their cause.
I am starting to see that atheism is a fundamentally emotionally argument since it lacks reason and belief.
Anonymous42they just deflect the argument all together
That’s the dulling effect on your sword. A couple of passes with your sharpening stone (the like minded) will restore you’re edge to normal.
That’s the dulling effect on your sword. A couple of passes with your sharpening stone (the like minded) will restore you’re edge to normal.
I would have to agree again +1. It is very difficult having a debate without it going to personal attacks. I don’t think they understand that debates expose weakness and in effect it would be good for me to lose so I know where/why/how I am weak. They are not about winning. They are about exposing what is.
Personal attacks avoid all this together.
Debates are about intellectual understanding and improvement of oneself, no different than a sport (boxing for example) where one goes in to physically understand and improve oneself.
Anonymous42It’s why I’m here, to understand the world around me, to improve my own intellectual understanding, to assist others in removing the blinders of this gynocentric society, and to help in the collective destruction of the lie and deceit called feminism and equality.
No two parts from the exact same mold are exactly alike, proving equality is a myth! I’m willing to admit there’s others superior to myself, and likewise inferior; again destroying the myth of equality….It’s only logical…Equality is illogical and emotional, a conundrum of the female mind…
Well said MG-Tower and John Doe.
So I live at home because its cheap and my dad is sick, sue me.
I commend your actions. I think actions like this are foreign to people who are so vehemently opposed to anything Christian. After all, to perform an action like this is to fulfill one of the 10 commandments.
My parents helped me through a 2 year tech school. After which I moved back in with them for 2 years and then I was able to move out on my own. My dad has passed away since then but if my mom ever gets to the point of not being able to live on her own I will gladly have her move in with me. (Moving to where she lives is not an option because of lack of work there.)
I too, have been through a clearance check. Not to the degree you have J.D. but enough to understand some of the pain.
Personal attacks and physical threats only expose ones intellectual weakness.
I agree. Unfortunately it is easy to lower one self to the personal attack level. I am guilty of it with the first post I made to Terminal. But thanks to one of J.D.’s comments, that wasn’t even directed at me, I realized what I had done and have done my best not to do it again.
As for physical threats, I will introduce people who try anything like that to my big Israeli bodyguard.
As for physical threats, I will introduce people who try anything like that to my big Israeli bodyguard.
Israeli bodyguard?
Anonymous42Everyone should have their own body guard, the closest one to you, the guy that has the most incentive to protect you, the guy that has the most to loose if he fails to protect you. I’m talking about you! Who else can “you” rely on 24/7, 365? And the fact that s~~~ happens, when it happens, and wherever it happens. Avoiding s~~~ altogether in the first place, is the best logical defense, going your own way………
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