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FreeGhost 4 years, 4 months ago.
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I think you’re off by a magnitude of 10… The increase from practice and exercise is a mere 4 points.
However, I don’t think having a high IQ is nearly as critical as it used to be because of the tools that we have access to. Every asshole has a calculator/dictionary/encyclopedia/reminder/instant communication device in their pocket. Average people with creativity can perform 3d modelling and can learn to apply flow/FE/manufacturability analysis. The basic functions of engineering and design already feed an ever-expanding group of people who can use them.
However, I’m also wary of estimates like “Programming and Engineering are the only viable job paths left”.
Who makes the parts for those engineers? Who builds the robots?
I do.
…And I get paid very well for it. In my current place of employment, I make the same as senior engineers. But my education was extremely affordable (an associate’s, and trade school. And 12 years in the field… But only 3 before I started making a ridiculous amount of money.)
But I make the argument for the financial viability of IQ.
@christov Not to be rude, but I disagree with people being unable to change their IQ.
http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-improve.php
http://www.businessinsider.com/actually-you-can-change-your-iq-if-you-work-hard-enough-2011-11
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazine/can-you-make-yourself-smarter.html
Although, I do agree with you that IQ is not really that important for the most part. Anyone can practice a skill and become good at it with enough time. Even if you don’t increase your IQ deliberately, there is no doubt we can become masters of any tangible skill. Also, it still won’t be a huge factor that stops someone from escaping poverty.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Anonymous5Not the place to put on my tin foil hat but at same time I feel the basic formated way of things here on earth don’t promote “helping others” but bullies oneself to take the easy way- which ends along the lines of being selfish. Honestly though is that not from our upbringing? Is that not from our education? Strange when it comes down to it do we even care to make change for a greater good of the group – when you the profiteers of the invention are laughing to the bank- Replace a potential 200 thousand plus workers with 5 machines? Try instilling the “little man” talk with people like that you’ll find out they could give two f~~~s. So- with that in mind understand that we are entering a time where an expected income of living is becoming more surreal and unrealistic from those be who are that margin. People who have that who just really don’t care.
Who really cares about IQ. I know plenty of “dumb” people who have done quite well for themselves financially outside of STEM fields. One of the most well off 60 something year olds I know started a landscaping business when he was young and currently he has about 30 employees peak time and 10 in the off season. I know people with CDL’s who make more driving truck than a lot of people with engineering degrees earn. One family in town I grew up with, the dad supported 4 kids and a stay at home mom running a small janitorial business that he had started.
I’m a firm believer hard work and a realistic life plan will win the day far more often than not. Not everyone is going to have a prestigious job, but hey, work is work, at the end of the day its about money. I’m only 31 but throughout my life I’ve witnessed plenty of hard working people moving up in companies, and moving on to better jobs. I’ve also witnessed plenty of lazy people who stagnated in place and loved to bitch about it but literally wouldn’t put in any extra effort to get ahead at their current job or do anything outside of work to improve themselves so they could move on to something else. Ironically…who are typically the ones who think dumb s~~~ like a UBI or a 15 dollar an hour minimum wage is a good thing? If you can’t figure it out, its not the go getters…its the lazy idiots who don’t want to help themselves, and the educated idiots who are swimming in debt and can’t figure out why their sociology degree hasn’t landed them a six figure job yet.
Not the place to put on my tin foil hat but at same time I feel the basic formated way of things here on earth don’t promote “helping others” but bullies oneself to take the easy way- which ends along the lines of being selfish.
You want to know who the selfish people are? Its not the people who busted their ass doing things like getting educated, learning skills, growing a business, working overtime, living below their means, and saving/investing so they could have a decent income and actually have a decent net worth built up over time…its the people who think they are ENTITLED to a certain standard of living on another person’s dime just because.
Anonymous42Not to be rude, but I disagree with people being unable to change their IQ.
I went through feminist hell in my Jr. high school years, compounded with racism violence, a perfect cation anion match to destroy my education, I dropped out by the 10th grade, with very poor reading(femc~~~ teacher), s~~~ in biology (femc~~~ teacher f~~~ing c~~~!), but in my other studies with man teachers, I limped along (50 to 80% absent from truancy) I f~~~ing hated the femc~~~ race war atmosphere! I received a scholarship for my straight A’s and A+’s in art the whole (limited) time in school.
After 10th grade, I went back to vocational school for GED and machinist, I learned everything I needed to know within 9 months of being SELF MOTIVATED I thirsted for knowledge and skills reading whatever manuals and educational books I could find, Wiring from the pole to the outlet, from the pole to the power plant, thick national code books, wire resistance over lengths, step up and step down transformers, triple winding armatures that achieve forward reverse through a barrel switch (6 sets of wire with 6 brushes) cross phase and triple phase 220v (not Europe’s 220 50 hertz) but our 110, 60 hertz, also recharging generator fields, wiring alternator fields, all phases of construction, including industrial maintenance and know how. I’ve built multiple RC aircraft and learned to fly on my own (later flight school), also worked in sheet metal fabrication, planishing, polishing, and duplicating antique body panels and parts.
IQ? I was f~~~ing STUPID after my FEMINIST encounter with FEMINIST C~~~ teachers from the Public Sfool System!
I also smashed a bunch of Spanish in my head only because I heard you can’t learn another language past 30, WRONG! Wrong again! Never take heed to feminist propaganda! Their minds work totally different than ours. Oh yea, My latest over the past 5 years is learning 1’st year chemistry mathematical calculations, and chemical compound mixing (or NOT to mix), plant biology atop of my lake biology, Sky’s the f~~~ing limit! Unless you have a feminist C~~~ over you!
Tell me why the f~~~ not? PULL THE RUG OUT FORM UNDER THEM!
Anonymous11If people would simply get off their asses and do something, there would be no need for free handouts. I know the corporate job market is tough. F~~~ them all and go your own way. Starvation is an excellent motivation.
I spent Wednesday helping a friend do fine pruning which is way beyond my educational and skill level, but I’m not too good to take on things that pay me money. I had a nice roll of $20 bills at the end of the day for my efforts. I learned a lot from him too. We worked and sweated out asses off all day in the blazing Georgia Sun. There is good money in menial labor only if you employ yourself bypassing some contractor who sits on his fat ass making money off of you.
A few times during the day I had to handle some IT client issues and simply went to my truck whipped out my laptop fired up the VPN and did some server tweaks for them. Billed them out too while working in my pickup truck branch office.
I cannot stand entitlement minded people.
Anonymous42@C-Pig, I looked into your shell crushing for an agricultural form of calcium, like many nutrients including calcium sulfate( gypsum) micro organisms must process it first to become soluble for plant uptake, I looked far and wide and found that calcium nitrate is the ONLY readily available form of calcium without micro organism processing.
Perhaps the settlers knew of a way to culture the dust for plant uptake. I’ve been looking into organic solutions for nutrient balance, unlike pure chemical compounds, it’s allot of guess work..
My tomato plants are 4 ft tall, healthy green with sheen, fat stalks, dozens of tomatoes on each one with flowers galore! Si-fi plants! pepper’s the same, the corn keeps screaming for nitrogen! but all in all a good year. My last surviving peach tree looks like it’s going to collapse, I have a ski propping up one of it’s sagging horizontal branches, perhaps 3 or 4 bushels, I fertilize my fruit trees too. Apples are bountiful, but hadn’t had time to spray for worms and moths, f~~~ apples, peaches don’t need chemical pest asides.
Gee, that’s a another field I should explore more thorough, organic pest asides, besides countless acres around here have been destroyed by LA (lead arsenate). I’m rambling off topic again, I’m done.
P.S. I use to do business and run my website from my laptop, until it was dropped from a ladder using it to focus my closed circuit security cameras…
What the f~~~ do most women do? Put on nail polish, smile, look pretty, then extract EVERYTHING they can from you?
If we were truly EQUAL, mankind would have vanished millennium ago!
If people would simply get off their asses and do something, there would be no need for free handouts. I know the corporate job market is tough. F~~~ them all and go your own way. Starvation is an excellent motivation. I spent Wednesday helping a friend do fine pruning which is way beyond my educational and skill level, but I’m not too good to take on things that pay me money. I had a nice roll of $20 bills at the end of the day for my efforts. I learned a lot from him too. We worked and sweated out asses off all day in the blazing Georgia Sun. There is good money in menial labor only if you employ yourself bypassing some contractor who sits on his fat ass making money off of you. A few times during the day I had to handle some IT client issues and simply went to my truck whipped out my laptop fired up the VPN and did some server tweaks for them. Billed them out too while working in my pickup truck branch office. I cannot stand entitlement minded people.
This is what kills me with the whole illegal immigrant s~~~ going on in America. You get people that say things like “They do jobs American’s don’t want to do.” Well s~~~, when we pay people to sit on their asses are you stunned by this revelation? Its work…I’ve had jobs I hated in the past, but works about the money, not about liking it. If you hate your job suck it up until something else comes along. Or even better…”They’ll work for cheaper, its good for the economy.” Ok…let’s use some illegal immigrant picking tomatoes as an example. He’ll get paid 10 dollars an hour under the table, while the government pays some lazy American the equivalent of 15 dollars an hour to sit around being an unproductive member of society, so essentially we’re paying 25 dollars an hour for someone to pick tomatoes and we aren’t getting any tax revenue in return, and we have 2 people benefiting from social programs who aren’t paying in. Why not just send the illegal out and pay the American 20 an hour? Yeah, its not a glamorous job, but its a decent wage with no education required, and we’d essentially turn two leeches into one producer while saving society money over all.
The whole entitlement society is nothing but a giant cluster f~~~, anyone who thinks its a good idea to double down on it obviously only thinks that because they are under the assumption they will benefit.
Anonymous11Interesting Tower. Our early settlers used to use oyster shells extensively. Our soil is acidic here so that may help make it more bio-available. I burned mine, crushed them and threw them into the compost pile for microbe/chicken processing. My yields are great too better than ever. My 15×20 foot plot is knocking $30 a week off of my grocery bill with straight up organic vegetables. I consider it a failure too as I know I can do better. Going your own way involves so many facets.
“They do jobs American’s don’t want to do.”
This is the biggest line of bulls~~~ to excuse illegal immigration. I cringe every time I hear it. They used to send immigrants packing when hard times hit America. Now, they invite them in like hordes of locusts. I’ve spoken with some Mexican friends of mine who are legal, and they are more p~~~ed off about illegal immigration than most Americans I know.
This is the biggest line of bulls~~~ to excuse illegal immigration. I cringe every time I hear it. They used to send immigrants packing when hard times hit America. Now, they invite them in like hordes of locusts. I’ve spoken with some Mexican friends of mine who are legal, and they are more p~~~ed off about illegal immigration than most Americans I know.
Its actually about as racist as you can get as well…which is funny its often a line repeated by “tolerant” liberals. Think about it…they’re pretty much saying I’m too f~~~ing good for that kind of work, let’s get some dirty Mexican to do it.
Interesting Tower. Our early settlers used to use oyster shells extensively. Our soil is acidic here so that may help make it more bio-available. I burned mine, crushed them and threw them into the compost pile for microbe/chicken processing. My yields are great too better than ever. My 15×20 foot plot is knocking $30 a week off of my grocery bill with straight up organic vegetables. I consider it a failure too as I know I can do better. Going your own way involves so many facets.
“They do jobs American’s don’t want to do.”
This is the biggest line of bulls~~~ to excuse illegal immigration. I cringe every time I hear it. They used to send immigrants packing when hard times hit America. Now, they invite them in like hordes of locusts. I’ve spoken with some Mexican friends of mine who are legal, and they are more p~~~ed off about illegal immigration than most Americans I know.
They should be, the legal ones had to go through the proper procedures and the illegal ones can just walk over, skip the waiting list and get a bunch of free stuff that they aren’t entitled to and get to vote and they always vote for those who give them more free stuff.
Anonymous11@beer: I once dated a liberal feminist. She was racist to the hilt though verbally she’d scream to the mountains that she was not and attack people for racism like the hypocrite she is. However, under the hood she was a racist. Liberals are very racist. You are spot on with this observation
@rennie: I know some legal Korean immigrants who are p~~~ed too. How would you feel if you jumped through 10,000 hoops to get into the USA only to watch some MS-13 gangster “child” waltz right on in. Basically, the socialists want them on the guvmint tit for the locked in vote while the business interests want to drive down wages. A match made in Hell if you ask me.
@ɹǝʍo┴ That’s a great story, man. I love hearing about people being motivated on their own to accomplish great things. I’m doing something similar right now, but with web development. I’m self motivated, teaching myself. It’s hard at first, but if you can get the ball rolling, the momentum really builds up and it becomes impossible to stop. I’m plowing through these textbooks I buy off amazon, and the best part is I love every minute of it.
I truly believe that unless the college education is required for the job someone really wants to do, it should be avoided. It creates a bunch of bad habits that don’t translate well. I see all of the people around me working their ass off for 3 months straight during a semester, but they are working for an A, NOT for the learning itself. They forget everything when they are done. Then they spend 4 months of the summer letting their brain rot away until next year. Their biggest concern is “what day should I go to the beach this week?”
I was in college for 3 years going for Physical Therapy and was doing well, but I chose to drop out because I hated it(didn’t really hate the major, but I hated college in general). Now that I’m doing the web development on my own, I work hard learning and practicing every single day. I don’t take months off or summers off or anything. I don’t say “ugh… Mondays”. Instead I have to check what day it is because I’m so engrossed in what I’m doing. The best part is I’m happy doing it. I used to worry about what my parents would think, so I picked a major that would make good money and make them proud of me. F~~~ that. Biggest mistake I’ve ever made. I’ll still make good money, but I found web development after a lot of trial and error, and making sure I love what I’m doing. Also, being my own boss and being able to entertain my entrepreneurial spirit was important to me. Well, that’s my little story–I love this topic. I could go on forever about it.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Harvard study shows that the bottom 80% of Americans hold a COMBINED 7% of the nations wealth, yes a measly 7%. So if you had 10 people sharing an 8 piece pizza pie, 8 people combined would be sharing just over a half a slice of pizza, while the other 2 would have the other 9+ slices. Can anyone justify this for me? “Hard work” should not be incentivized to this egregious extent.
Source –
Still not in the political corner where this belongs. Though I’m beginning to think it belongs somewhere else.
Harvard study shows that the bottom 80% of Americans hold a COMBINED 7% of the nations wealth, envy envy envy envy.
Again: SO F~~~ING WHAT?! If the bottom 80% are all well fed and warm, what does it f~~~ing matter?
The f~~~ is wrong with you? You keep trying to make this very same exact argument, and every time you do people here keep shooting it down in flames. So do you recognize the flaws in your position and correct them? Hell no. You just come back again WITH THE EXACT SAME BULLS~~~ ARGUMENT.
“I have enough but you have more than me and that’s UNFAAIIIIRRRRR!!!!” is a feminist argument.
As if “fair” had anything to do with anything.
Do you want to know what’s really unfair? I have a friend who was making minimum wage two years ago. In his spare time he was going to school, studying his ass off, and earned a promotion that doubled his wages. Then cry-baby redistributionist “living wage” feminist f~~~holes like you rammed through a bill doubling the minimum wage. This forced his employer to fire three people and cut my friend’s wages back to minimum to cover his increased labor costs. So my friend sacrificed his evenings and money to take classes all to gain a benefit that assholes like you handed to everyone else for NOTHING. How is that fair?
And more importantly, how does that incentivize self improvement and productivity?
F~~~ it. I’m tired of seeing the same s~~~ over and over where it doesn’t belong. It smacks of tuna. I should have pushed the button days ago.
Resorting to name calling is a clear indication of poor character.
Harvard study shows that the bottom 80% of Americans hold a COMBINED 7% of the nations wealth, yes a measly 7%. So if you had 10 people sharing an 8 piece pizza pie, 8 people combined would be sharing just over a half a slice of pizza, while the other 2 would have the other 9+ slices. Can anyone justify this for me? “Hard work” should not be incentivized to this egregious extent. Source – Wealth Inequality in America
Wealth is a poor measurement of anything. It doesn’t account for two major variables, age and fiscal responsibility.
As far as age is concerned, do you think you will have more wealth at 20, or at 60? Obviously at 60, because I hope you’d have something to show for an extra 40 years of working. Along those lines, here is a little factoid for you to digest. “The study found that 86 percent of today’s millionaires are self made and did not consider themselves wealthy growing up. Overall, the research revealed current millionaires are, on average, 61 years old with $3.05 million in assets.”(http://news.discovery.com/human/life/millionaires-120722.htm)
Literally, a full 86% of millionaires are self made, with an average age of 61. If you are looking at distribution of wealth as a measurement of anything, most of those rich people you are complaining about are average people who lived below their means, saved, and invested over the course of their lives so they could have a comfortable retirement. Do you think those people are a problem?
And furthermore…you aren’t looking at what people do with their money at all. You might have sport stars who make 30 million dollars over a 5 year career who are end up filing bankruptcy a few years after they stop playing. You have a guy who was maybe a truck driver making 60-70k, or about 2-2.5 million over the course of his career, who retires with 5 million in investments because he lived below his means and was smart with his money. What are you looking at when you compare their wealth? Are you saying an idiot who squandered a fortune is a victim of wealth distribution and a guy who over a life time earned a mere fraction of that other guy is somehow oppressing him?
Its no different if you compare it to less extreme examples. You can take two people both making 100k a year…one will max out his 401k and IRA every year, live in a small house, and drive used cars, the other will save nothing, buy a mcmansion, go on lots of fancy vacations, and lease a new car every 3 years. At the end of a 30 year career one of those guys will have millions saved up, the other will have nothing. Do I see a problem with that…NOOOO! At my last job I was at for 11 years, I was making 35-40k a year. One of my coworkers was making the same exact amount of money I was at that job, plus working 2 part time jobs on the side, so he was probably making about 15k a year more. At the end of 11 years when I left that job, I had paid for 2 college degrees, built about 10k equity in a condo(which would have been a lot more but I bought it right before the crash), and I had 20k cash sitting in the bank. At the end of 11 years of him earning more money than I was, he was in court claiming bankruptcy and was 30k in the hole…but hey…he had a nicer car than me! Was it somehow not fair that I had a higher net worth than that guy?
The only thing that is a problem is an unfair tax system. I don’t think its right that Warren Buffet pays an effective tax rate of 17% while I probably make less in a year than he makes in a day and I’m paying 40-50%. If you said we should all be paying 20-25% whether we earn our money from capital gains or payroll I’d agree with you, but if you want to demonize the holders of wealth when an overwhelming majority of them are people like our parents, grandparents, the retired folk next door, and probably some of the guys on this forum, I don’t think its possible to have an intelligent exchange of ideas with you.
a clear indication of poor character.
Irrelevant. Character only holds weight in arguments in emotion based feminist touchy feely land. If you are getting your panties in a twist it’s your problem.
In the real world logic, reason, and perspective win the day. So that’s what I go with. If I say you’re making feminist arguments it’s because that is exactly what you are doing: making bulls~~~ feminist arguments. And it’s on you to do something about that.
Why is it the more you reply to this thread the more I smell tuna? This last reply of yours was particularly “fishy”.
Harvard study shows that the bottom 80% of Americans hold a COMBINED 7% of the nations wealth, yes a measly 7%. So if you had 10 people sharing an 8 piece pizza pie, 8 people combined would be sharing just over a half a slice of pizza, while the other 2 would have the other 9+ slices. Can anyone justify this for me? “Hard work” should not be incentivized to this egregious extent.
First of all, if you are in the bottom 80% of Americans or North Americans in general, it means you are working for someone else. So you should probably be appreciative that anyone invited you to sit down and have a piece of their pizza. Because whoever bought the pizza could just as well have invited someone else to fill your position.
So in justifying this for you: as a business owner or person of free enterprise employing you: I BOUGHT THE PIZZA. If you’d like some more, you’d better ask nicely, or I’ll just leave you the crusts.
No one is entitled to a job. You’ve been invited to participate in a contest where you can make your own, or help with someone else’s idea. If you’re helping with someone else’s? You better do a good job helping, because there’s about 20 million more in line wanting your piece of the pizza.
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