Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Your thoughts on "universal basic income" for Americans?
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FreeGhost 4 years, 4 months ago.
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sidecar – Also read a statistic like how only 10% of Americans own 90% of stocks. Of course the wealthy can invest their money, allowing it to grow while the peasants must slave away with back breaking labor for their small plot of land. Why do so few invest in stocks? Oh, because they are affluent and can afford to, while the others must be content with less. My uncle is a 7 figure plumber in my state and DESTROYS all new plumbers because he is at the stage where he can underpay employees and beat out new competition. He owns 3 mansions, hires illegal immigrants, and overprices jobs because he has slaughtered all competition. If a competent plumber were to compete against him, he would be demolished. Just doesn’t seem fair where so few own so much.
He is now building multimillion dollar retirement facilities, exploiting illegal immigrant workers, and profiting at a sickening rate. He’ll probably make more money off of this financial endeavor than you and I will make in our lifetimes combined. I love how he doesn’t hire my desperate millennial cousins friends too because he can pay Mexicans, Hondurians, and Ecuadorians $8 dollars an hour to perform all procedures to build this retirement facility. Exploitation or fairness?
Bottom 80% of Americans only have 7% of all wealth in the country according to Harvard study. Youtube video has over 16 million views, watch it.
Anonymous3It’s usually a waste of time to discuss this stuff on the internet. Honestly I’ve written a couple of posts already before deciding to erase them.
I’m pretty sure this whole thing is going to collapse one day, probably sooner rather than later. UBI is probably one of the few ways to keep it going peacefully, and to avoid the likely bloodbath that will occur otherwise.
I know the elites think they have everything planned and can control everything. Although others say they don’t and have already made themselves scarce. But unlike the railroad baron bust, they also own the media now too. Where is the flaw right now? They have technology to spy and head off issues, the fiat money and full on stock market manipulation too. When it fails this time, it will take the entire system with it.
Civilizations have risen and fallen throughout history. Each had its own way of life, its own systems in place. But they all rise and they all fall, despite all of them thinking they know everything. Even back in Babylon they did have interest and futures markets and all of that, and of course many civilizations debased their currency and then had runaway inflation into their collapse. America debased its currency decades ago when switching fully to fiat and removing PM content from coins, yet managed to keep going with full inflation/worthless currency (0 PM content in currency, unheard of prior).
I don’t think at any time in world history was one empire so ubiquitous. US hegemony controls the entire world now. When the US destroys itself, along with UK, the IMF and the rest of the West, I wonder does anyone pick up the pieces? Is China truly that different? They are using the same principles with their Bank too. I suppose ISIS is different, but can they really explode out? Typical rise and fall patterns do indicate a small, explosive group like ISIS would be the natural next empire, but I don’t know.
Regardless, it might be awhile. My best bet is to not be around, either because I’m dead or I’m somewhere else. The last place I want to be in is the US when things collapse. Or anywhere else in the West, with its lack of values and morals.
Anonymous11Why should some lazy parasite be guaranteed an income? Why should mega-corps and central banks be in bed with politicians all feathering their own nests at the expense of the middle class? All prior entities are recipients of the rampant crony capitalism/socialistic welfare that are destroying everything.
There once was a time in this country where one man could work and support his entire family. I remember being able to roll into a new job without even trying. Now when my friends go down, it takes a hell of a lot longer to land work.
The creation of wealth requires hard f~~~ing work. There is no way around it. Chain down the runaway mega-corps. Get the government out of everyone’s business. Do not reward indolence.
Create the environment for opportunity, and it will blossom. As for the lazy, let them eat cake.
There is only you and your future. What would you rather be? A cog in a computer process or free and enjoying the few years you have on earth. The rest you can’t control.
My research was to create a bayesian network application that takes all the data about a tumor and then develops a treatment plan for cancer. A computerized cancer doctor. It is much better at math so much better at stratifying individual cancer care for each patient.
Doctors making complex medical decisions will be irrelevant and replaced by tech’s with little training and the quality of care will increase.
So even intelligent decision making will be automated.
Become a cog in the wheel of some machine that provides services to other cogs in other machines.
Or, treat yourself as your own company. Reduce costs, increase profits (not labor) at what ever costs it takes.
Do you think the top 1% doesn’t take advantage of every dime the government will give them for free?
Bail out anyone?
Live life for you and that means going your own way. Women are a depreciating asset.
#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.
First, a basic income equal to the poverty line ($11’770) for 300M people would come to $3,5 trillion / year. By comparison, the entire Federal revenue from fiscal year 2014 was $3,02 trillion. Based upon this rough estimation, the proposal is unrealistic.
Second, theft followed by charity is still theft. Taxation is theft, therefore the proposal is theft.
Anonymous3First, a basic income equal to the poverty line ($11’770) for 300M people would come to $3,5 trillion / year. By comparison, the entire Federal revenue from fiscal year 2014 was $3,02 trillion. Based upon this rough estimation, the proposal is unrealistic. Second, theft followed by charity is still theft. Taxation is theft, therefore the proposal is theft.
They spend more than that propping up Wall St. every year. As well as government employees, crony capitalism, banks, entitlements etc.
I’m all for a real, fair environment where each man is on his own.
You know who isn’t? The bankers, the large corporations, government employees, the rich. All groups that don’t produce anything but suck up resources like parasites.
Property tax, income tax, inflation, they are all enemies of hard working honest Americans, and only benefit those groups. The massive infrastructure in place, the court systems, large government, all of that only benefits the corporate and banking elite, because they use it but don’t have to pay for it.
Most of this will collapse at some point. And it will get ugly.
In the same fiscal year (i.e. 2014), $3,50 trillion was spent, the exact same figure as the back-of-the-envelope calculation. It would be impossible for 100% of this figure to have been spent “propping up Wall St.”
Do some research before you post stupid things.
They spend more than that propping up Wall St. every year. As well as government employees, crony capitalism, banks, entitlements etc.
Anonymous42Wealth goes to those that do the right thing.
@ATF, time is ticking, the old continue to die, the young that peruse success are tomorrow’s wealthy, while those that chose foolish indulgence will be tomorrow’s impoverished.
For example, 3D printing is a transformative technology.
@myself, FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS! PRINT, ASSEMBLE, AND SHOOT!
They continue to manipulate a system they built to manipulate, and the people continue to slave away for them in ignorance. It’s amazing how easily deceived the herd is. These people absolutely count on it.
Edog, it’s all about what one does with their own personal wealth. Lottery tickets, gambling, partying, and all sorts of other vices are a sure fire method for poverty.
Given that welfare has been such an utterly colossal clusterf~~~ failure I cannot see how any intelligent, rational person could think of expanding it to include everyone who chooses not to support themselves. You’re supposed to discard failed ideas, not feed them.******* And socialism never, EVER works. Even the so called socialist “successes” are just socialist programs parasitizing capitalist economies. And eventually the parasite kills its host.
@sidecar, let me guess, You’re from the real world, not alphac~~~tairia!
You should look at economic adjusted for inflation statistics compared to decades ago. You will see how outrageously more expensive “everything” is. It is quite difficult to embark upon a business when you can barely afford paying rent working two or three part time jobs because your employers want to side cut paying your healthcare working full time. Quite difficult to acquire the capital to start a business with such a poor financial predicament.
@freeghost, I was born in the silver coin age, all the change above a nickle was silver, the pennies were “real” copper. I attribute our economic DESASTER directly to the war on poverty and gynogovernmental alterations that enslave us, rather than “PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RESTRICTIONS ON THE SIZE AND SCOPE OF GOVERNMENT”, As it stands, the feminazi are pushing their failure in places they don’t belong! Places like RUSSIA, CHINA, IRAN, and many others, their likely to collapse the entire planet (not just the WEST) if they were to succeed. Our only promise lies in a man GHOW, away from this failed social experiment initiated in the 1960’s….
Personally, I’m growing my own delicious food from the purest most refined chemical compounds found on the planet, my fruit, and vegetables are much more loaded with vitamins and minerals than store bought, you “are” what you eat!
I think I’ll relieve some “RICH PEOPLE” of their cash with our (my brother and I) “superior” product.
Rich people won’t like the idea their food or plants are currently grown with cheep p~~~ nitrogen (urea nitrate), and agricultural potassium phosphate mono basic with arsenic, chromium, and “other” heavy metal compounds, you “ARE” what you eat!
There was so much here that I almost did not even want to try and write a response, but here goes.
but the fact that 1% of Americans own 40% of all wealth in the US (according to a Harvard study) is despicable in my mind.
Why at all would it matter who has what percentage of the current total wealth? Wealth can be created it is not static. That is the kind of thinking that Vikings and Other raiding cultures had. They believed that wealth was limited therefore they had to take from others to have. The problem with that theory is that wealth is not static but can created by anyone who has the ability to persevere and most importantly has the opportunity to fail. If you do not have the opportunity to fail you can never achieve.
There are many barriers to entry for young entrepreneurs impeding their financial independence.
There are many barriers but there have always been barriers. Maybe those barriers have grown or changed over time but the biggest barriers are always put in place by the government. Capitalism as we use it today in the U.S. is not true Free Market Capitalism and that is because the government has too much control. This of course does not preclude anyone from having a great idea and finding a way to make it become reality but it is somewhat harder.
Also, autonomous robots are replacing humans in many labor sectors and future trends show that over 70% of all jobs today will be replaced by automation.
They said the same things about virtually all automated jobs and so far the world has continued. I am not saying that this is inaccurate but only time will tell what actually happens. And if you want to avoid this potential future think about how you can make it work to your advantage.
I also believe capitalism also creates a bottom down effect in which poverty and financial inequality is inevitable.
I am not entirely sure what a bottom down effect is supposed to be as it seems that if you are at the bottom there really is not much down to go to. That being said your point seems to be that it is not fair that some have more than others. This has always been the way of life no matter what system was in place but if you look at other systems VS. Capitalism you will find that Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty and squalor than any other system. If you want to find a better system then do something new because the other things that have been tried don’t work or we would be using them. Additionally the poorest people in America have more than most people in other countries.
Barriers to entry are becoming more prominent and costly unfortunately stifling potential for the less affluent.
Again crony Capitalism (Leftist idea of Capitalism) and Governments are to blame for this type of behavior the regulations etc are the problem not a solution. The market works best when people are allowed to control what happens. There does need to be a minimum of oversight but only some.
The top 20% of Americans own more wealth than the bottom 80% combined, how is this fair?
Again who told you life was fair? They LIED. Additionally the top 20% pay 94% of taxes, how is that fair?
Free market capitalism seems to lead to lobbyists and unequal wealth distribution, in which power in given to the minute percentage of the population.
Again the lobbyists and people taking money for political favors is not Free Market Capitalism it is Crony Capitalism.
Every year more taxes, more licenses, higher inflation, more barriers to entry to get out of the “stanglehold”of society.
See point number 2.
The 1% maintain they’re spot as the 1% by being the most corrupt, and they have been at it for a very long time.
Some do but if you look at the list of 1% you will see that the list changes and there are people who go from nothing to the top echelon of wealth through an innovative idea and the tenacity to make it happen.
The common man is cannon fodder amongst this corrupt debacle.
Only if you let yourself be.
Where is the path to prosperity for those not born with the affluence to embark upon entrepreneurial avenues?
Affluence does not guarantee success or future wealth. Entrepreneurs do not have to be super wealthy to make a business work. Yes you do need some amount of capital but that is the whole point of a small business is that you learn how to make things work on smaller amounts. You become agile and responsive and able to move with the economy. Large corporations tend to use wealth to stand midstream in the economy and are not really agile. This is where there greatest weakness is.
Firms with 1 – 4 employees pay more employees than all companies that pay 500 or more employees in the U.S. Clearly small businesses are finding ways to thrive and they are not all affluent families creating these businesses. http://www.census.gov/econ/smallbus.htmlYou should look at economic adjusted for inflation statistics compared to decades ago. You will see how outrageously more expensive “everything” is.
Yes inflation is the cause of this and it is directly tied to government mishandling of the economy and due to the 16th amendment that created the federal reserve system in the U.S. That should be abolished it is Crony Capitalism
Also read a statistic like how only 10% of Americans own 90% of stocks. Of course the wealthy can invest their money, allowing it to grow while the peasants must slave away with back breaking labor for their small plot of land.
That is because people no longer know how to handle money and spend everything they have and buy on credit. This man works as a parking lot attendant making $12 and is worth $500,000 because he saves and invests in stock.
Stock is not just for the wealthy but you have to learn how stock works and most people don’t understand stock.My uncle is a 7 figure plumber in my state and DESTROYS all new plumbers because he is at the stage where he can underpay employees and beat out new competition. He owns 3 mansions, hires illegal immigrants, and overprices jobs because he has slaughtered all competition.
He is a Crony Capitalist.
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self. -Terry Goodkind
Anonymous3In the same fiscal year (i.e. 2014), $3,50 trillion was spent, the exact same figure as the back-of-the-envelope calculation. It would be impossible for 100% of this figure to have been spent “propping up Wall St.” Do some research before you post stupid things.
They spend more than that propping up Wall St. every year. As well as government employees, crony capitalism, banks, entitlements etc.
Ah the low information dog, quick to bark the loudest! Desperate to show off what knowledge he thinks he has!
This is a reason I don’t bother discussing this stuff. Those that know generally keep quiet, those that don’t insist they do.
In short, you’re a f~~~ing retard, and f~~~ off.
Call me an old lefty, but my understanding is that when something like a universal income has been trialed on a small scale (in towns in the US and Europe) it’s been surprisingly successful. To paraphrase Chomsky, no one is going to write a manifesto for the best economy – we have to try stuff and see what works.
Apparently socialism does alright in Sweden, but look how big that place is. Apply that to a 300 million person population and you have a clusterf~~~.
The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.Still belongs in the political corner.
Also read a statistic like how only 10% of Americans own 90% of stocks.
Envy envy envy envy envy envy.
Again WHAT DOES IT MATTER?
If people are going to spend their spare cash instead of putting it to work that’s their CHOICE. Even a little savings and investment is preferable to no investment, but all too many poor people choose things like name brand shoes and fancy phones instead. Which is one of the reasons they remain poor.
And speaking of investment, the retarded “solution” you are proposing is MASSIVELY INHERENTLY INFLATIONARY. So you’re planning on punishing the few poor people who do struggle and save and scrimp and work to better themselves by inflating away their gains to hand it to those poor who can’t be bothered. Do you not see how stupid that is?
A successful economy is not one where everyone is rich, because such economies are almost always ones where everyone is actually poor. A successful economy is one where everyone can, by their own sacrifice and labor, improve their position so that they are better off today than they were yesterday. And you can do that in the US still, though all the laws and regulations put into place to “help the poor” are making it more and more difficult.
tl;dr: Don’t compare yourself to Bill Gates. Compare yourself to where you were yesterday. That is how you judge an economy.
Apparently socialism does alright in Sweden, but look how big that place is. Apply that to a 300 million person population and you have a clusterf~~~.
Sweden isn’t socialist. It’s still capitalist. It just has a lot of socialist programs parasitizing its capitalist economy. And it’s unsustainable. Wait and see.
Here is one take on this debate:
Ha! Juice Rap News had some funny stuff, I haven’t liked much of their newer stuff but that one was a classic. Here is a link to Buckminster Fuller’s “Critical Path” In my opinion, this is an amazing book that discusses global economics and the scarcity of resources. It’s very thought provoking. This link takes a few minutes to load fyi. Ahhh, the link wouldn’t patch through here, too bad… You can search it as; btronics pdf buckminster fuller critical path
I would say what would be best here is for MGTOW to help men be MGTOW more competently, allow as much personal liberty and work to bring back mutual aid societies, particularly with MGTOW. Trying to do centralized planning for the economy and resource management is not a way to go.
And with this, I will drop Fear the Boom and the Bust:
Yes, here would be a place to put in some Austrian economic discussion.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
I should also add some Money as Debt here to:
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
First…you need to understand its bulls~~~ when you talk about wealth as any sort of measure…income is the only thing that matters. I know people who have had careers earning the equivalent of 60-70k a year who are millionaires in terms of wealth, and I know people who have had careers making 120-150k per year who can’t retire because they are in debt. Will I somehow be an evil 1%er some day because I have a six figure job, live well below my means, and have a savings rate of 50%+ and have been and will continue to accumulate a lot of wealth if I keep doing that?
Second…giving people “free” money for nothing is beyond retarded, and a big reason why this country is so f~~~ed up is because right now the government is giving “free” money to people for f~~~ing up. The government shouldn’t be in the business of forking tax money over to private citizens or private businesses to the extent they currently are. Don’t get me wrong…I understand a limited safety net is important…sometimes hard working good people just fall upon hard times, but our social programs and corporate welfare is so bloated, full of loop holes, and abused its disgusting…they should be focusing on making what we already have more efficient, not expanding it.
Third…you mentioned your uncle exploiting illegals. He should be fined heavily for knowingly hiring illegals, and all the illegals he is hiring should be deported. I’m tired of the “they do jobs Americans don’t want” argument. Maybe some lazy American’s need to be told your free ride is over…get your ass to work. Plus what happens 20 years from now…all their kids are Americans…are they just going to get lazy too and we’ll have to import another 10 million illegals to keep the cycle going? Illegals are a plague on society, and your uncle is criminal for enabling them.
Fourth…we simply can’t afford it as a nation. We can’t even afford social security that is basically a UBI for seniors only…how the hell can we give it to everyone?
And finally…if they want to change wealth distribution in this country…it should be done by altering the tax code, not by giving chosen demographics “free” s~~~. In my opinion…the federal income tax brackets should be lowered across the board, and capital gains tax should be raised. Here’s why…its the working class that pays payroll taxes…the rich pay capital gains because they aren’t punching a clock and collecting a pay check. Think Warren Buffet paying like 16% per year while someone making 100k a year is paying 40%…its bulls~~~. I don’t think its a problem that maybe the top 50% has 95% of the wealth as I think yearly earnings is what you should be looking at…but I do think its a problem the top 1% is making the bulk of their money off capital gains and paying 15-20% while people with decent middle class incomes from like 60-200k are all paying 30-50%. I’d rather see us all paying 20-30%. If all resources were limitless a UBI would be great…but its not, and I think the more we penalize the upper 50% to give handouts to the lower 50%…the less incentive people have to work hard. With that being said…I’m in no way saying I wouldn’t tweak the current system a bit, like I already mentioned, but a UBI is simply a gigantic step in the wrong direction.
Exactly! What governments are loathe to admit is that they are deathly afraid of the people, particularly men. Get a handful of determined men and the Powers That Be become The Powers That Are No More!
"Shot through the heart, and you're to blame, You give love a bad name, I play my part and you play your game, You give love a bad name."--Bon Jovi
Anonymous3My opinion is to get off the fiat system, get rid of the Federal Reserve, shrink government down, get rid of all entitlements, shrink the government employees and pay them less, get rid of corporate welfare, create one bank run by the government and don’t allow any private banks to be involved in it (similar to the US postal service), make lobbying illegal and lobbyists/bribes resulting in jail time, as well as for politicians caught accepting bribes, get rid of all property tax, and cut back income tax or repeal that altogether. I’m sure there are a few other things I can list, but I’ll just stop there.
Know who will complain about that? The bankers and large corporations, who mostly suck that money away. Not you or me, who are net payers, and we know it. The elites have controlled and setup the government the way they want it. This foolishness over rich victims is absurd. They write the laws in the first place, how in God’s name would they be oppressed and discriminated against? Congress only has rich old millionaires. It’s allegedly a representational government, yet the only people being represented are the rich, the politicians are all from the same class, there are no middle class or poor representatives, there are barely even any representatives below 50. Yet people always insist the rich are being victimized and it is the middle class or poor running the show. It’s just so absurd, I don’t know how people make that argument in good faith.
This is my last post in this thread, because as I thought, you can’t really discuss this even on these boards. Too many people don’t know the first thing about finance, law or government. They just regurgitate either Fox News or CNBC, both nonsense just from different “sides” of political theatre.
Engineers and computer programers may be the only people that may not be deemed as “obsolete”. Leading futurist Ray Kurzweil agrees with this assertion as well. Unfortunately, not all of us our intelligent enough to be engineers and programers and the economic demand cannot create a society dependent upon all of us being engineers and programers. What shall the rest of us do?
First came the shovel, then came the shoveler, then came the tractor, then came the man on the tractor that could outwork 500 shovelers in the same time frame, now comes the robot who can farm the land without being paid a flat ware, without a 401k, without “off time”, without vacation time, without threat of injury, etc etc etc.
Actually, unless you have a mental disability, it has been proven that applying one’s self and applying strain on the brain like a muscle can increase one’s IQ. If i remember correctly, up to 40 points. I for one do not believe that people cannot rise out of poverty. A person can literally go to the library and read economics books or computer programming books all day long and learn this stuff for free. If they have the will, and have a realistic plan, it is achievable. There is no REAL barrier stopping people from becoming financially free. There are obstacles that make it more difficult, sure. But anyone who applies themselves diligently can get ahead.
Also, older edition textbooks are practically free. I learned this trick from one of my physics professors in college. Basically, the authors have to write an impressive first edition for it to be used in schools, so the first edition is always very good. Then once they get their foot in the door they just fill the book with junk because it needs a new edition every year. And most of the information doesn’t change very much, at least not with most sciences.
For computer programming, there are a ton of free internet resources that teach programming for free. And last edition books that teach the same updated programs cost like $10. All of these poor people can afford to do this, there are too many handouts that keep them afloat. They just choose to spend it on crap instead. That’s why they are poor in the first place.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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