Your thoughts on "universal basic income" for Americans?

Topic by FreeGhost

FreeGhost

Home Forums MGTOW Central Your thoughts on "universal basic income" for Americans?

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This topic contains 108 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by FreeGhost  FreeGhost 4 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #98968
    FreeGhost
    FreeGhost
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    318

    “Heavy” manual laborers in the US don’t make as much money as they should via the hiring of illegal immigrants. Capitalism encourages cheap laborers to increase net profits. Abolish illegal immigrants and manual labor sector markets for legal employees would be paid more accordingly, your argument is fallacious in that sense. Crony capitalists encourage illegal/foreign carpenters, engineers (Indians), architects, landscapers, arborists, cooks,  maids, masons, drywall installers, farmers, customer servantt agents, etc due to increasing their bottom line. Why hire an American when you can exploit some peasant in a third world country (China, India, Mexico, Honduras, the Philippines, etc) while destroying the middle class of your own nation? Waste of time to argue with a man who has took the bait, hook, line, sinker, and damn well swallowed the pole and reel while he was at it.

    #98974
    FreeGhost
    FreeGhost
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    318

    much older than half the life expectancy* my mistake.

    #99054
    Cipher Highwind
    Cipher Highwind
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    1144

    FreeGhost, might I suggest you haunt somewhere else with your foolishness?  I understand Facebook is often used for that sort of thing.

    #99113

    Anonymous
    42

    On Sirius XM today, patriot channel, Andrew Wilkow said something striking; “on the one hand of government (the giving hand) where people are encouraged to take free stuff, but the other hand of government (the extraction hand) is a clenched fist!”

    We can see this in all the money they encourage (through the tax code) to invest in retirement, 401k, where your dollars are invested in things like the mutual fund markets, capital gains tax is included in this conundrum, when a person wants to invest in his OWN Business, the clenched fist of government is there to take the maximum from any “self investor” these policies are what’s destroying free enterprise. All that “money” in 401K’s, is potentially up for grabs when things get worse for the supernova of expansion we’re told is a government. It’s no longer a government of the people, by the people, nor for the people, it’s a monster unto feeding it’s self all the spoils of corruption. IT. WILL. DIE.

    #120899
    Shakur1985
    Shakur1985
    Participant
    1

    #120901
    Shakur1985
    Shakur1985
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    1

    #120967
    Oneforfreedom
    Oneforfreedom
    Participant
    930

    ere’s a little factoid for you, “The study by Fidelity Investments found that 86 percent of today’s millionaires are self made and did not consider themselves wealthy growing up. Overall, the research revealed current millionaires are, on average, 61 years old with $3.05 million in assets.”(http://news.discovery.com/human/life/millionaires-120722.htm)

    86% of millionaires are self made.  The vast majority of your millionaires are people that spent their lives living below their means and saving for retirement.  Do you want to rob people’s retirement funds that actually lived a responsible life style to redistribute to other people?  If so, what do you propose we do when that money runs out, and everyone says f~~~ it I’m not saving to take care of myself in retirement because the government is going to take it anyhow.  Do you want to punish responsible people for doing the right thing?

    The only problem as far as I’m concerned is your Warren Buffet types who pay a tax rate less than 20% while a middle class person making 100k a year is paying 40%.  Should that be addressed?  Absolutely.  I wouldn’t argue with you if you thought we should all be paying 25% whether we make our money from payroll or capital gains, but its foolish to paint the wealthy out to be the enemy when the vast majority of millionaires are really just a lot of our parents and grandparents who were financially responsible over the last 30, 40, or 50 years.

    Beer, I will buy you a beer one day.

    Its easy to make blanket statements about the rich and bitch about people with hundreds of millions of dollars…but when you demonize the top 10% most of them are really just what you’d consider middle class people who consistently saved and invested over their lives, and yes…a life time of working, saving, and investing should mean you have a disproportionate piece of the pie in terms of net wealth compared to someone who is just starting out, or someone who may have earned the same amount of money but couldn’t be bothered to save any because they had to keep up with the Jones’s.

    I’m loving it.

    How about universal shelter, clothing and food/water? Sounds like a better plan then universal basic income. You know, the things people actually need to survive, not money handed to them so they can buy modern conveniences and go into debt. Give people this basic income that they can use to pay the minimum amount required and they will flock to lenders and get credit cards with insanely high APR’s.

    AMEN. I love this idea too.

    #121013
    FrankOne
    FrankOne
    Participant
    1417

    Most estimates are only 20-30% of wealth in America is inherited, ex ‘Inheritance and Wealth in America’. Typically, if you have kids and much sense, you DON’T give out a lot of inheritance early (say, to kids in their 20’s), as it often results in lazy offspring. The best small business owners I’ve worked for start their kids out doing menial/manual labor at a young age, not in the executive office.

    And I would disagree, some wealthy families and individuals believe in free trade and small government; others believe in a larger role of the State. e.g. the Koch brothers have a very different view than, say, George Soros. And many rich stay largely out of politics.

    MG-Tower: YES, we need to greatly reduce corporate income taxes. And have a simplified tax system without loopholes. That will increase exports and economic growth. High taxes and onerous regulations, do not favor small business entrepreneurs.

    FreeGhost: You state heavy manual laborers don’t make as much as they ‘should’. How much ‘should’ they make? Capitalism does NOT ‘encourage cheap laborers to increase net profits’. Capitalism encourages *efficient* production. Is someone working of their own free will being ‘exploited’? Or am I being ‘exploited’ by working 45 hours a week and paying 40% of my income in taxes, much of it paid in transfer payments to the significant fraction of Americans who choose NOT TO WORK? If I own a company, I cannot simply increase wages; I must also increase product price to cover my newly-increased production costs; that, in turn, decreases sales.

    One aspect of economics not often discussed is the Rise of the Rest; in past, we had the Rise of the West; now we have the Rise of the Rest — income inequality between the U.S. and Asia, is *dropping* as these countries experience fabulously high economic growth. We could have high growth too, but we choose not to — we choose big government, high taxes, excessive government expenditures on transfer payments and military adventurism, onerous regulations, immigration limits, deficit spending, high personal debt, and fiat currency instead.

    Let’s take a concrete example on wages. The public decides the minimum wage isn’t a ‘living wage’, and doubles it. What does this DO? Well, if companies must now pay so much for labor they cannot sell as much of their product at the newly elevated price point required, there will be *layoffs*. Somebody has to govern what is produced, and how much. It can either be demand-driven (free market), or command & control. In the West, we have a mix. So, take agricultural subsidies — government payments not to grow crops, price supports, etc — they cost around billion a year to taxpayers http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21643191-crop-prices-fall-farmers-grow-subsidies-instead-milking-taxpayers — distorting the market and decreasing efficiency. So we pay a little more for groceries each week.

    As for you paying a hundred dollars for shoes that cost one dollar to make, I don’t believe they are manufactured for that little; it’s probably closer to thirty six dollars — see http://solecollector.com/news/how-much-it-costs-nike-to-make-a-100-shoe/ for typical breakdown — pie chart is interesting — as for me, the only shoes I pay that much for are Red Wings, at about one hundred and eighty dollars ea (heavy-duty steel-toed work boots; my employer only covers about a hundred and sixty of it annually). I actually CAN buy American-made shoes at a Red Wing, it adds about another hundred dollars to the cost (Heritage Collection). So American-made high quality boots are around two hundred and fifty to three hundred dollars a pair. I don’t buy Nike, Air Jordan, etc because I’m not trendy & I don’t keep up with the Jones’s, so no one hundred and twenty dollar tennis shoes for me. I’m not a brand-slave; I buy Red Wing because they’re not trash and they LAST.

    #122539
    FreeGhost
    FreeGhost
    Spectator
    318

    My uncle as a multi millionaire decade long plumber is paying a 40% tax rate. Imagine a young qualified plumber today trying to establish himself in the industry with all necessary licenses/qualifications. Is his opportunity greatly limited by our overly taxed state? YES YES YES.

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