Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Your thoughts on "universal basic income" for Americans?
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FreeGhost 4 years, 4 months ago.
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FreeGhost what you need to understand is that the very very rich are very very good and keeping and increasing their money. We could implement everything you mention and it would change nothing over the long term. Unfortunately the wealth gap is going to increase. The wealthy run the banks, politics, and just about everything else in society. Your desire to see the poor have more is admirable, but you must realize that many of the wealthy will remodel their kitchens before they will give to a reputable charity that puts food in the hands of poor or medicine to those who cannot afford it.
Your desire to see the poor have more is admirable, but you must realize that many of the wealthy will remodel their kitchens before they will give to a reputable charity that puts food in the hands of poor or medicine to those who cannot afford it.
Lol. A lot of rich people are actually very generous when it comes to charity. Warren Buffet for example, is giving 99% of his wealth to charity when he dies, in addition to all he has already donated over the years. Or how about that Bill Gates, considering him and Buffet have been fighting for top spot for wealthiest American for a while. Did you know since 2007 he has donated 48% of his net worth to charity? In the last 7 years he has donated 28 billion dollars to charity.
Simple facts here…not all rich people are cheap evil bastards, and most of the bottom 20% of society is there because of choices they made to put themselves there. Stealing money from a rich person to give to a crack head isn’t going to make society a better place, its just encouraging and enabling stupidity.
More humans equals more demand for resources(humans at least need water and food). More humans does not necessarily equal more supply of resources; a human could go their entire life and never produce anything. Therefore, population control is directly tied to a stable economy. It seems few people want to look at the elephant in the room which is a bunch of f~~~ing whores s~~~ting out womb turds. It is not and never will be sustainable.
I own guns. The moment a motherf~~~ing parasite knocks on my door demanding his or her share of the UBI is the moment I unload a whole clip in their motherf~~~ing head. Why? Because only producers of wealth are required in a UBI scheme to support parasites, and I will be damned to hell before I allow that.
For who else can provide funding for such a parastic idea? Those people deserve the smoking barrel of a gun if they try to collect from me.
Any f~~~ing questions, moochers?
Harvard study shows that the bottom 80% of Americans hold a COMBINED 7% of the nations wealth, yes a measly 7%. So if you had 10 people sharing an 8 piece pizza pie, 8 people combined would be sharing just over a half a slice of pizza, while the other 2 would have the other 9+ slices. Can anyone justify this for me? “Hard work” should not be incentivized to this egregious extent. Source – Wealth Inequality in America
I’ll justify it for you. Who the f~~~ cares about who holds how much wealth…that is a measurement of absolutely nothing. You have sport stars who make 30 million over an 8 year career who end up claiming bankruptcy, and some truck driver who makes 60k a year who retires a millionaire because he lives below his means, saves, and invests. Do you see a problem with that? I don’t.
Here’s a little factoid for you, “The study by Fidelity Investments found that 86 percent of today’s millionaires are self made and did not consider themselves wealthy growing up. Overall, the research revealed current millionaires are, on average, 61 years old with $3.05 million in assets.”(http://news.discovery.com/human/life/millionaires-120722.htm)
86% of millionaires are self made. The vast majority of your millionaires are people that spent their lives living below their means and saving for retirement. Do you want to rob people’s retirement funds that actually lived a responsible life style to redistribute to other people? If so, what do you propose we do when that money runs out, and everyone says f~~~ it I’m not saving to take care of myself in retirement because the government is going to take it anyhow. Do you want to punish responsible people for doing the right thing?
The only problem as far as I’m concerned is your Warren Buffet types who pay a tax rate less than 20% while a middle class person making 100k a year is paying 40%. Should that be addressed? Absolutely. I wouldn’t argue with you if you thought we should all be paying 25% whether we make our money from payroll or capital gains, but its foolish to paint the wealthy out to be the enemy when the vast majority of millionaires are really just a lot of our parents and grandparents who were financially responsible over the last 30, 40, or 50 years.
OP, here is an article with some interesting data related to wealth accumulation.
Near the bottom they have a chart where you can compare the median and mean net worth of society divided up into 20th percentiles. For anyone who doesn’t know…the mean would be adding up the total net worth of people in that percentile, and dividing by the number of people in it. Median would be the guy in the middle…so if you ordered everyone’s income from low to high in that percentile and had 1000 people on that list, the 500th guy in the middle of the list would be the median.
So what did they find? Well for the bottom 20th percentile, they had a median income of 15,200. However, when you compare their net worth they had a median net worth of 6400 dollars, and a mean net worth of 64,600 dollars. Since OP probably can’t figure out what that means…the 0-10% has less than 1/10th of the net worth of the 10-20% even though they have practically the same income. The same pattern exists for each 20th percentile. Measuring net wealth, even amongst groups with similar incomes yields drastically different numbers because everyone does different things with their money.
Now here is another tidbit for you. The 40-60th percentile of has a median income of 48,700 a year. They have a median net worth of 55,400 dollars. That means there are people in the bottom 20% of society with a higher net worth than those in the 40-60% that earn more than 3x as much…so what are you looking at when you want to compare net worth when its obvious some people can live cheaply and save money, while others haven’t figured out how to do the same?
Also…the first chart runs a comparison by age. Under 35 have a median net worth of just 10,400 dollars. 65-74 have a median net worth of 232,100 dollars. OP, do you know what that means? If that 34 year old and 65 year old had a pizza and sliced it up to share…the 34 year old would get just about 4% of that pie. If you sliced it up into 8 pieces…he would get what…1/3 of a slice? Again…what are you looking at when you compare net worth?
Its easy to make blanket statements about the rich and bitch about people with hundreds of millions of dollars…but when you demonize the top 10% most of them are really just what you’d consider middle class people who consistently saved and invested over their lives, and yes…a life time of working, saving, and investing should mean you have a disproportionate piece of the pie in terms of net wealth compared to someone who is just starting out, or someone who may have earned the same amount of money but couldn’t be bothered to save any because they had to keep up with the Jones’s.
I’ve had multiple baby boomers tell me that with a part time job, they paid for college tuition, college textbooks, food, rent and board, car, car insurance, and other living expenses. Millennials today would find this miraculous. With Illegal immigration, insourcing, outsourcing, and automation, there exists a stagnation of economic growth. Illegal immigrants (via employer exploitation) are tremendously discouraging uneducated/young Americans from obtaining a skill that could lead to future affluence. Insourcing is creating a dilemma of Indians/ other Asians taking higher skilled professions (Doctors, Engingeers, Computer programers, etc) for less than half the pay of legal born American citizens. Outsourcing is creating a dilemma in which our manufacturing basis is nearly entirely eroded. A strong economy is entirely dependend upon being a producer and not of debt which is our nations largest export lol. Automation is also a job destroyer. Why would an employer/corporation employ a human when it is not cost efficient to the bottom line to employ them? Why I debate with you ignorant baby boomers is beyond me. We have a decreased standard of living and the statistics prove it.
And Sidecar – You are the one bringing emotions to the table. I honestly feel bad for how ignorant you are.
there exists a stagnation of economic growth.
Which would only be made worse by this “universal basic income” bulls~~~.
I honestly feel bad for how ignorant you are.
I’m not the one who can’t bring an argument to the table but only responds with the same exact whine over and over and over.
You STILL haven’t answered the basic question posed to you multiple times by multiple people in this very thread: Why does it matter if someone has more than you if you have enough?
Anonymous42I own guns. The moment a motherf~~~ing parasite knocks on my door demanding his or her share of the UBI is the moment I unload a whole clip in their motherf~~~ing head. Why? Because only producers of wealth are required in a UBI scheme to support parasites, and I will be damned to hell before I allow that. For who else can provide funding for such a parastic idea? Those people deserve the smoking barrel of a gun if they try to collect from me. Any f~~~ing questions, moochers?
GoneGalt must live in one of those places where the law is few and far between. I’m with you Galt, I’ll boil those sɹǝʞɔnℲ down for biodiesel and fertilizer! When it’s time to monster up, IT’S TIME TO MONSTER UP! ZOMBIES BEWARE
there exists a stagnation of economic growth.
There exists the worlds largest economic heist, the U.S. constitution has become toilet paper for our Feminazi federali overlords to wipe their asses with. With our feminazi laws built solely on 50 years of endless conjecture with treasury plunder, market distortions, business restrictions,,,,, a F~~~ing pork-barrel bonanza while most of us watch this nation erode and scour it’s self into history. The suburbs of Washington D.C. look nothing like the vast wastelands of ruined housing, industry, blight and economic ruin. Those f~~~s are having a party and p~~~ing away any hope of a “real recovery” with every dollar they spend into oblivion….
The only thing that “works”, is not “dysfunctional”, and “always reliable”, is the taxes they demand to deliver destruction and misery to whomever they decide. Pick and choose governing spawns pick and choose law.
“No one is above the law!” WHAT A CROCK OF S~~~! Molest the law and rule from that crooked platform, officials become all powerful over the law, and all powerful over the individual (killing fields).
I like guys like Galt, “You go Galt!” Air those evil thoughts right out the back of their heads!
What happens when a corporation automates your job? Leading futurist Ray Kurzweil, with an IQ higher than ours combined (read a little on him) surmises that over 75% of jobs in the future will be automated. What will you do now to make ends meet for your family when you are deemed “obsolete”? Wealth is being concentrated towards the upper tier more and more and this trend has been in application for decades. The fallacious argument presented to me in this thread is that “we can all become engineers or programmers”. This is ridiculous in terms of an economic standpoint. Thanks for not cursing at me though however Sidecar. I do not take offense to your insults, yet not cursing shows a growth in your character (possibly?) Maybe one day you will realize that we are all one? Seems like a distant date to me.
And Edog has the most likes on this thread, who exposes our federal reserve banking system and inequality of our current corrupt capitalist system, which I agree with in it’s entirety. We are due for another round of quantitative easing my friends, buckle down for more inflation fellow MGTOW’s, lol. You baby boomers are too negligent to understand our diminishing standards of living and how it effects our economy.
By the way, I would be greatly in favor of capitalism if illegal immigration (creating diminishes wages, insourcing (diminishing wages), and outsourcing (lowered standards of living) weren’t massive impediments to current growth in todays current society.
I’ve had multiple baby boomers tell me that with a part time job, they paid for college tuition, college textbooks, food, rent and board, car, car insurance, and other living expenses. Millennials today would find this miraculous.
I’d really like to know how much money they were making at their part time jobs. Minimum wage in 1980 was 3.10 an hour. Average tuition at a public university was 7600 a year. If they worked 20 hours a week, that’s 62 dollars a week, times 52 weeks would be 3,224 dollars a year. Unless they were making 2-3x minimum wage and working 39 hours a week I think you are pretty mistaken about how easy it was back then.
Besides, I’m a millennial…I worked my way through 2 degrees, didn’t borrow a dime, and paid off 40,000 dollars on an 85,000 dollar property over a 10 year period from 18-28. Acting like its impossible to work your way through college these days simply isn’t true either, plenty have people have done it, you just have to be willing to work hard.
Why I debate with you ignorant baby boomers is beyond me.
I’m not a boomer…I’m a millennial, and you aren’t debating. I presented you with a lot of facts and statistics which you just conveniently ignored and proceeded on with your whining about how hard life is and people should give you free money for some reason.
By the way, I would be greatly in favor of capitalism if illegal immigration (creating diminishes wages, insourcing (diminishing wages), and outsourcing (lowered standards of living) weren’t massive impediments to current growth in todays current society.
I never thought I’d be saying this…but you better vote for Donald Trump. He seems to be the only candidate at this point that actually wants to get rid of illegals. He’s got my vote at this point based entirely on that…I’m disgusted by every other candidate that wants to throw all legal American citizens under the bus in hopes of winning over the hispanic vote.
I’m not the one who can’t bring an argument to the table but only responds with the same exact whine over and over and over. You STILL haven’t answered the basic question posed to you multiple times by multiple people in this very thread: Why does it matter if someone has more than you if you have enough?
He’s good at ignoring stuff. It apparently hasn’t sunk in to him 86% of millionaires are self made, and the average millionaire is 61 years old with 3 million in assets. He’s literally complaining about a people who worked for their fortunes, many of whom are simply older folks who lived a responsible life and actually saved for retirement, or spent a life time growing a business.
How about universal shelter, clothing and food/water? Sounds like a better plan then universal basic income. You know, the things people actually need to survive, not money handed to them so they can buy modern conveniences and go into debt. Give people this basic income that they can use to pay the minimum amount required and they will flock to lenders and get credit cards with insanely high APR’s.
Given the number of people in the US that are in debt (If memory serves around 90% of Americans spend more than they put into savings), the only winners are predatory lenders with their usury. Again bankers win under the guise of helping people.
How about we shrink government employment, increase the private sector, give companies strong incentives to build factories on domestic soil, create jobs that don’t need 4 years of bulls~~~ college brainwashing and see how that goes?
The bitter reality is that there will always be a ruling class, masters of society, regardless of political and economic structures. What master do you want? I’d rather be in a free market society where I can get a job and work my way up through a combination of work ethic and experience. Where innovation and entrepreneurship is a viable reality.
Ignorance and a lack of vision and ambition contribute to poverty as much as anything.
I am a misanthrope because I know that the human condition will never change, the behavior of the masses is cyclical, just like the rise and fall of empires. No amount of education, activism and “empowerment” will change this, EVER. People flock to power for safety and stability in whatever form it takes.
The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.
Anonymous42By the way, I would be greatly in favor of capitalism if illegal immigration (creating diminishes wages, insourcing (diminishing wages), and outsourcing (lowered standards of living) weren’t massive impediments to current growth in todays current society.
Allowing illegal immigration is a death-null to upward mobility, they’ll vote for more government expansion with it’s exorbitant administration costs, resulting in the farther impoverishment of America, or any nation that allows and perpetrates such uncontrollable insanity, property taxes will rise as the public sfool system is expanded to indoctrinate the principles of feminism and continue the destruction of the male spirit. Their UNION, the teachers UNION, has a Vice Grip® clamp on every man’s b~~~~ that dere denies their destructive philosophy!
THE> MOST>EXPENSIVE SFOOL SYSTEM ON THE פNIʞƆ∩Ⅎ PLANET, BY. SEVERAL. TIMES. OVER!!! FIRE THE SʞƆ∩Ⅎ!!!
How about universal shelter, clothing and food/water? Sounds like a better plan then universal basic income.
@COA, sounds like a FEMA camp!
The overall idea of forced income equality looks good on paper, much like socialism, communism, capitalism all look good on paper. But human nature. Apply human nature to any of these systems ans see what happens.
I am convinced that humans are made to break systems. If there is a system that is so well crafted that there is no way to exploit it, it would probably look closer to a prison with all its rules, than a society.
humans, if there is a way to game the system and cause inequality for their own advantage, then someone will do it. Even at the risk of being labelled bad. Would you rather be bad and rich, or good/fair and average? Not everyone would choose bad and rich, but enough would to break any system of inequality. Oh so you choose good and average. Fine you can choose that for yourself, but how can you mandate that for everyone without creating a social prison full of rules?
in the OPs particular question, if we allowed this, then too many bad people gaming the system will only take from society and not contribute much if at all. It creates parasites.
as i was thinking about this earlier in life i came back to this. Its not really about equal money but basic needs. Everyone should have compulsory place to live, food, and clothing allowance. That means a basic living space will be free to own, a basic food allowance for each person (every single person gets foodstamps,) and then their is abasic clothing allowance for everyone. Still for all luxury items you have to pay. Examples: if you want a mansion or even a large regular house then you must pay for it. If you want more than $200 worth of food a month, or more than $600 of clothes a year then you must pay for it yourself. But this is all flawed. Some able bodied people will do nothing to contribute.
How about universal shelter, clothing and food/water? Sounds like a better plan then universal basic income. You know, the things people actually need to survive, not money handed to them so they can buy modern conveniences and go into debt. Give people this basic income that they can use to pay the minimum amount required and they will flock to lenders and get credit cards with insanely high APR’s.
This is exactly why I’ve been saying measuring wealth distribution is a pretty pointless metric. You can give 100 people the same exact job where they all start off at 60k a year, and get the same raises every year for a 30 year career, and at the end of that career you are going to have some that are millionaires who retired before they even hit the 30 year mark, some that quit or get fired because they are just truly lazy and don’t want to work, and some that are so far in debt they’ll have to work until they physically can’t anymore. To think the people that made the good choices should have to share with the rest for no reason is ludicrous…once we get to that point we might as well all just start making poor choices financially because what’s the point of making good ones if you just end up getting punished for it while those who made bad choices get rewarded?
The overall idea of forced income equality looks good on paper, much like socialism, communism, capitalism all look good on paper. But human nature. Apply human nature to any of these systems ans see what happens.
No it doesn’t. Why should a doctor who put a lot of time, effort, and money into his education have an equal income with some 18 year old fresh out of high school working at a convenience store? Why should a construction worker busting his ass doing heavy labor make the same as someone cashiering at Walmart standing in the AC all day? Why should an engineer, a nurse, a teacher, a plumber, an electrician, a welder, or any other educated/skilled person make the same money as someone who washes dishes at a local chain restaurant?
Any system that forces equal results upon people who are not putting in equal effort is just flat out stupid. If you were a supervisor and had two new people to work with, one of which was respectful to you and others, always on time, and worked as hard as could be expected, and the other was late often, called in a lot, had a poor attitude, and never got anything finished, what would you do when review time came up? Would you give the awesome guy a pat on the back and a nice raise, and the crappy guy a list of things he needs to work on if he expects to keep his job or maybe just get rid of him? Or would you give them both equal raises, because hey, income equality, right?
Or older folks fortunate enough to be conceived during the prosperous era of being the offspring of the victors of world war II. To the victors reek the spoils. Average age 61 lol. Much older than average life expectancy of Americans and the majority of these must be malem which drops the life expectancy even lower. Affluence has a direct correlation to age demographic and that statistic you so willingly gave just proved it. Step out of your media induced trance Beer.
Chaos – I do trust the private sector much more than the public sector by far (and yes we need to shrink the public sector massively), yet money buys political power via lobbyism, which in turn is used to exploit the underclass. Capitalism seems flawed in the sense that wealth breeds exploitation. Obviously socialism would be worse, yet capitalism should be thoroughly examined, not accepted as a perfect system. For every billionaire there are 50,000 workers working for $5 American dollars per day for example. I buy shoes that cost $1 to make per shoe pair (including transportation costs) yet I pay $120 for these shoes because of oligopoly’s ability to control prices, this is a clear exploitation in the system. Why I argue these points is beyond me, humans has proven time and time again to be incapable of free thought and easily manipulated by media influence.
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