The pleasures of fatherhood

[MGTOW_MikeParticipant 6253]

Puffin Stuff wrote:

Then try to reconnect as adults.

Correct me if I am wrong, I believe may 7 2020 is hoping for this to happen regarding his daughters, after reading many of his stories. Very sad indeed.

A tranquil mind is neither happy nor sad, it is uninfluenced by external conditions.

[OldBillParticipant]

narwhal wrote:

I don’t see that he did hold it up as goal for other men.

Re-read his replies to Sidecar. I’ll give you a few quotes:

And a Father’s Love is one of the most enduring, profound emotions a man will EVER know. NOTHING I ever did elicited the emotion I felt when my children were born. And, sadly, if you haven’t done it, you’ll never understand.

Do you see the shaming language?

the future belongs to those who show up for it.

That from a man whose wife has taken away his future.

So- the question now, is- what do you care about OUTSIDE of yourself? Aside from YOU, what gives life meaning and purpose?

As if any humans’ purpose should or must external to themselves.

Read what he wrote, Narwhal, and stop thinking you need to defend yourself.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

ZombieVader wrote:

your moronic

My moronic what?

(Seriously, I could not have planned that better.)

how many meet the Sidecar Standard?

And there you go again, trying to make it all about me. Trying to make things personal instead of answering.

That’s something women do, not Men.

I’m beginning to think you’re not a traduck MRA after all. I’m beginning to smell tuna.

NoMore wrote:

Sidecar, I think you are misunderstanding ZV’s point. He isn’t advocating that men father children. However, when you divorce and have children, take joy in spending time with them.

It’s his attempt to shame men here into serving the “higher purpose” of rescuing and maintaining society for “his” children that’s the issue.

Hell, how many men have found MGTOW after having kids? I know I did.

The difference is that MGTOW understand they aren’t really the fathers of “their” children. They know our gynocentric society won’t permit it. I’m not saying I approve of that situation, just that it is what it is. And it is a large part of why our gynocentric society needs to fail. Maybe something worthwhile might come out of the ashes, maybe not, but either way this s~~~ needs to stop. The wheels need to fall off the bus.

And while they might have found MGTOW, men with children can’t actually be MGTOW. Not really. Not yet. It is a sad paradox that the Men who probably understand the need for Going Your Own Way the most, divorced men with children, can’t actually Go Their Own Way. Not yet. Not until the children are grown adults and independent and our gynocentric society no longer has that hold on those men.

But if they try to manipulate or shame other men for the sake of “their” children, then they don’t understand MGTOW at all. And they aren’t MGTOW. And they won’t ever be MGTOW.

I have a kid and would encourage dad’s to do what they can to foster and gird that relationship. Doing this is not telling men to go out and have kids without forewarning.

But do you urge other MGTOW to “serve a higher purpose” and “keep the wheels on the bus” and sacrifice themselves to preserve gynocentric civilization for “your” children? Do you accuse Men of “licking the earth” to shame them into serving your own selfish desires?

Because that’s exactly what @zombievader is doing, and that’s the creed of tradcuck MRAs, not MGTOW.

Anonymous wrote:

So what constitutes MGTOW?

MGTOW are not a movement. MGTOW is not a club you can join. MGTOW is a definition. MGTOW are defined by what they don’t do.

MGTOW do not marry. MGTOW do not cohabitate. MGTOW do not have children. Everything else is up to you.

This is why there are far more MGTOW out there than have ever even heard of MGTOW. And a lot of tradcuck MRAs who want to co-opt the MGTOW label for themselves because their tradcuck MRA bulls~~~ isn’t working.

[ZombieVaderParticipant 99]

sidecar wrote:

ZombieVader wrote:

your moronic

My moronic what?

(Seriously, I could not have planned that better.)

how many meet the Sidecar Standard?

And there you go again, trying to make it all about me. Trying to make things personal instead of answering.

That’s something women do, not Men.

I’m beginning to think you’re not a traduck MRA after all. I’m beginning to smell tuna.

NoMore wrote:

Sidecar, I think you are misunderstanding ZV’s point. He isn’t advocating that men father children. However, when you divorce and have children, take joy in spending time with them.

It’s his attempt to shame men here into serving the “higher purpose” of rescuing and maintaining society for “his” children that’s the issue.

Hell, how many men have found MGTOW after having kids? I know I did.

The difference is that MGTOW understand they aren’t really the fathers of “their” children. They know our gynocentric society won’t permit it. I’m not saying I approve of that situation, just that it is what it is. And it is a large part of why our gynocentric society needs to fail. Maybe something worthwhile might come out of the ashes, maybe not, but either way this s~~~ needs to stop. The wheels need to fall off the bus.

And while they might have found MGTOW, men with children can’t actually be MGTOW. Not really. Not yet. It is a sad paradox that the Men who probably understand the need for Going Your Own Way the most, divorced men with children, can’t actually Go Their Own Way. Not yet. Not until the children are grown adults and independent and our gynocentric society no longer has that hold on those men.

But if they try to manipulate or shame other men for the sake of “their” children, then they don’t understand MGTOW at all. And they aren’t MGTOW. And they won’t ever be MGTOW.

I have a kid and would encourage dad’s to do what they can to foster and gird that relationship. Doing this is not telling men to go out and have kids without forewarning.

But do you urge other MGTOW to “serve a higher purpose” and “keep the wheels on the bus” and sacrifice themselves to preserve gynocentric civilization for “your” children? Do you accuse Men of “licking the earth” to shame them into serving your own selfish desires?

Because that’s exactly what @zombievader is doing, and that’s the creed of tradcuck MRAs, not MGTOW.

Clu wrote:

So what constitutes MGTOW?

MGTOW are not a movement. MGTOW is not a club you can join. MGTOW is a definition. MGTOW are defined by what they don’t do.

MGTOW do not marry. MGTOW do not cohabitate. MGTOW do not have children. Everything else is up to you.

This is why there are far more MGTOW out there than have ever even heard of MGTOW. And a lot of tradcuck MRAs who want to co-opt the MGTOW label for themselves because their tradcuck MRA bulls~~~ isn’t working.

(Go back and re-read the thread- WHO made things personal? WHO didn’t answer the questions posed? Better wash that thing..)

Look,I know you’re sensitive. That much is obvious in your responses.

But ad hominem is not an argument. And the insults just make you and Bill look juvenile.

So-to finish this-

The definition of MGTOW IS:

Don’t Amalgamate, Cohabitate, or Procreate- the rest is up to you.

Sounds reasonable-
Even allows for a pleasant evening with the kids you’ve already made, as many have. And allows for you to help out others, if you want, as many like to do. (Or sit poolside watching the Bus burn, if THAT’S what you want..)

In other words, the Big Tent of MGTOW.

We’re back to where we started.

Better The Corner Of A Rooftop....

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Oh just f~~~ off tradcuck.

ZombieVader wrote:

“Licking the earth” ain’t gonna cut it.

And take your pathetic tradcuck shaming attempts with you.

[MGTOW_MikeParticipant 6253]

ZombieVader wrote:

(Go back and re-read the thread- WHO made things personal? WHO didn’t answer the questions posed? Better wash that thing..)

Look,I know you’re sensitive. That much is obvious in your responses.

But ad hominem is not an argument. And the insults just make you and Bill look juvenile.

So-to finish this-

The definition of MGTOW IS:

Don’t Amalgamate, Cohabitate, or Procreate- the rest is up to you.

Sounds reasonable-
Even allows for a pleasant evening with the kids you’ve already made, as many have. And allows for you to help out others, if you want, as many like to do. (Or sit poolside watching the Bus burn, if THAT’S what you want..)

In other words, the Big Tent of MGTOW.

We’re back to where we started.

I am aware that too many men on this forum have been burnt real bad. As a heterosexual man who has steered clear of women and decided to pursue his passion for his entire life, I take my hat of for every single man who shares his story with us. Words cannot describe the pain and suffering they, and you, have gone through. I will never know what being a father feels like, however due to my passion and also seeing other men burnt, I have made my mind up very clearly that I will not have any kids.

Whatever pains and suffering you are going through, hang in there. We MGTOW brothers are all going on our own tailored path, so there will be a lot of disagreements time to time. It is bound to happen. Despite this, most of us MGTOWs can see how reality is playing out and how ugly it is getting. For all men, especially young men who are not married nor have kids, we educate them on facts regarding this reality. I do my best to pick out any good points other brothers share on this forum and challenge my own ego. It is very humbling.

Peace out.

A tranquil mind is neither happy nor sad, it is uninfluenced by external conditions.

[narwhalParticipant]

OldBill wrote:

Re-read his replies to Sidecar. I’ll give you a few quotes:
And a Father’s Love is one of the most enduring, profound emotions a man will EVER know. NOTHING I ever did elicited the emotion I felt when my children were born. And, sadly, if you haven’t done it, you’ll never understand.
Do you see the shaming language?

Admittedly, I read the first couple posts, and skimmed through the rest. I certainly didn’t analysis this statement. I do see where it can be interpreted as shaming, as it is phrased in a way where people do usually intend to shame.

I understand the statement though. It does not mean the birth of your kids or fatherhood are the only ways a man can have a meaningful life though. Not by a long shot.

I personally have never been involved in the military. I’ve never jumped out of an airplane. There are tons of experiences I’ve never had that could very well be as meaningful and life changing.

OldBill wrote:

the future belongs to those who show up for it.
That from a man whose wife has taken away his future.

To me, that statement is kind of nonsensical in my opinion. As far as the statement that his wife has taken away his future. For many of us with exes, divorce represented relative freedom compared to married life. I don’t think that was your point though. Marriage itself is having your freedom taken away. Divorce, when kids are involved, is not fully regaining your freedom.

OldBill wrote:

So- the question now, is- what do you care about OUTSIDE of yourself? Aside from YOU, what gives life meaning and purpose?
As if any humans’ purpose should or must external to themselves.

I agree that that is a dumb statement. I don’t have a problem with people who want to make sacrifices for the benefit of others or with those who don’t want to have as little to do with others as possible.

OldBill wrote:

Read what he wrote, Narwhal, and stop thinking you need to defend yourself.

My intention was less in defense and more about providing a different point of view. It seemed like it was lacking here. And to be honest, I enjoy a good debate every now and then.

As far as my response to comments that my life is a disaster (or whatever words you used), I like to turn that against them in a debate if I think it can add to my argument. Or just ignore it if it only serves as a distraction. Call it a debate tactic, or habit if you will, similar to the way you like to refer to others as fools when they say something you consider to be idiotic.

Whatever. I think I’m done with this. I think we mostly agree, and the problem is primarily semantics and communication, but if not, well, that’s fine too.

Ok. Then do it.

[OldBillParticipant]

narwhal wrote:

As far as my response to comments that my life is a disaster (or whatever words you used)…

I used the word catastrophe. I said that your life had suffered a catastrophe and not that your life is now a catastrophe.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[narwhalParticipant]

OldBill wrote:

narwhal wrote:

As far as my response to comments that my life is a disaster (or whatever words you used)…

I used the word catastrophe. I said that your life had suffered a catastrophe and not that your life is now a catastrophe.

Whether or not you’re able to wring a little joy out of the catastrophe of your lives is moot.

Yep, I can see how that was your intention, and how I interpreted it as I did. Communication error. No problem.

Ok. Then do it.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

narwhal wrote:

I do see where it can be interpreted as shaming, as it is phrased in a way where people do usually intend to shame.

Interpreted?

Naw.

It’s straight up shaming. This entire thread has been one long attempt by a tradcuck (at best – likely tuna) to get men back onto the plantation to “keep the wheels on the bus” for the sake “his” children.

[ZombieVaderParticipant 99]

sidecar wrote:

narwhal wrote:

I do see where it can be interpreted as shaming, as it is phrased in a way where people do usually intend to shame.

Interpreted?

Naw.

It’s straight up shaming. This entire thread has been one long attempt by a tradcuck (at best – likely tuna) to get men back onto the plantation to “keep the wheels on the bus” for the sake “his” children.

Sidecar, Jesus- you don’t read, do you?
And what was that about shaming and making it personal?

Projecting, indeed.

If you are a MGTOW, then why would you feel shame? If you are a MGTOW, why would you make it personal?

“Oh just f~~~ off tradcuck” -“making it personal” -“the smell if tuna”-

You’re outed, Sidecar.

Meanwhile, we’ve learned a few things- most of the members here can disagree and discuss. A few go straight to name calling and shaming attempts. Par for any internet forum, I guess.

I don’t think I’m always right- I came here to learn, and discuss.

I see that a few can’t handle that- but most can.

Par for the internet, again.

And, for the record- I couldn’t care less what others do. And, no one is going to follow me- I’m just a guy on a keyboard- I have no influence. And it wasn’t “shaming- it was the simple, mathematical truth.
Irrefutable. Whether you care for it, or not, is irrelevant.

In conclusion, I wish all of you well- even Bill and Sidecar.You made me think, and ponder my own positions. Sidecar, I like you passion. Bill, you obviously feel protective of this site. Good for you both. You have your burdens to bear, as do I.

Thanks for an interesting thread-

Goodnight.

Better The Corner Of A Rooftop....

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

ZombieVader wrote:

And what was that about shaming and making it personal?

F~~~ off tradcuck.

Claiming ignorance of your bulls~~~ shaming attempts only shows once again your tradcuck incomprehension of MGTOW. Because tradcucks can’t afford to understand MGTOW. Because MGTOW pull the rug out from under their tradcuck little worlds and tradcuck little futures.

And, for the record- I couldn’t care less what others do.

Bulls~~~. You said yourself you want men to “keep the wheels on the bus”.

Men stand by their words or admit their errors. Why don’t you?

it was the simple, mathematical truth.

What “simple, mathematical truth”?

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