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Tagged: alienation of affection, fatherhood, having kids
This topic contains 71 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by 
sidecar 1 year, 9 months ago.
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I know the words falling out of my daughter’s mouth came from the c~~~. Someday, my kids will find me. We will sit and play legos together picking up where we left off.
Pure triangulation from the c~~~. Hiding behind the curtain. Wanting you to accept the words as coming authentically from the child so that you will now hate the child and validate the encapsulated persecutory delusion she has created in building her perverse cross generational coalition.
When my then 12-year old threw herself on the floor, screaming at me “Just move out!” after I had gently unfolded an origami figure on the kitchen counter (I thought it was a napkin), I knew the evil had penetrated deeply. Move out… from my daughter…
Sharing their hate and evil – Mommy Dearests. So kind and loving.
C~~~s.
There’s a difference between treasuring the moment and pretending you’re living in a Hallmark Channel movie.
Yes, of course.
I can’t tell from ZV’s post which one he is. I sort of relate to his situation when my ex left; I “had to” pour of all my thought/energy to the kids in order to not losing my mind. In a sense, I was almost pretending to be happy to stay sane.
Last time I saw my older daughter, we were learning how to drive a 5 speed manual Saturn SC2 in a forest preserve. Last time we spoke was for my birthday in early November 2014, last text was about Thanksgiving and turkey gravy. She sent me a letter in January? 2015 telling me what a horrible human being I was. Last time I saw my younger daughter was March 15, 2015 in a Starbucks. What girl at age 13 tells her father to go away? Her mother sitting behind her with a big smile on her face. I drove 900 miles home that evening, driving straight through crying most of the way home.
That is absolutely depressing, brother. Absolutely depressing.
I need to move these toys along. I can’t give them back to the kids, I have a no contact order. I can’t hold on to this stuff. It hurts too much to have in my home.
Perhaps if you give these toys to an orphanage. The little children here will greatly appreciate it.
I enjoy reading you stories may 7 2020, deep and raw.
Take care.
A tranquil mind is neither happy nor sad, it is uninfluenced by external conditions.
You’re an unjustly imprisoned convict rejoicing in the fact that your jailers allow you to walk in the exercise yard every so often. In a perfect example of the Stockholm Syndrome in action, you’re proclaiming your gratitude for the fact that your captors allow you a few small moments of joy. You should be outraged, but instead you’re collaborating.
Bull’s eye, OldBill. Too many men are satisfied with mediocre, not realizing they can experience an uncompromising boundless freedom. Not putting in effort to break out of the old ways of thinking.
Pursuing my passion in Electrical Engineering, takes my mind above and beyond all the money and pussy in the world. It is an uncompromising boundless freedom.
A tranquil mind is neither happy nor sad, it is uninfluenced by external conditions.
I can so relate to May 7
I am a villain in my daughter’s eyes..
I am my heavenly father’s Hero for giving him new life.
These do not offset each other.
I just give more thought and credence to
living in the father’s spirit than wasting
my time of life worrying about things
I have no control over.I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.
tl;dr: The “pleasures” of fatherhood are a trap. And can be taken from you on the whim of a judge for the tears of a lying woman, and there’s nothing you can do about it. But the pain of the trap will remain. Meanwhile my bachelor freedom will be mine to enjoy forever, and it only gets better every year.
Gentlemen,
Hello- been cutting acres of grass today.
Apparently, my idle musing was polemic.
Definitely not a Hallmark moment. Just enjoying a happy day. Spent years in failing marriage hell; peaceful moments with my kids are something to be savored,now.
Lots of binary thinking, it seems- not sure why. I’ve been through a relatively minor divorce; I’m aware how much worse it could have been. I hate the divorce cash-and-prizes culture as much as anyone here- I’ve lived as a son, and a husband and father.
But, ultimately, we have to find some peace and happiness in the world we inhabit, not Galt’s Gulch. I had one, and shared it. Those of you who are fathers, can understand.
Those of you who aren’t, you’ll just have to take our word for it-any happy moments with your kids are to be cherished; regardless of how f~~~ed up the system is that allowed them to be subject to state decree.
Anyway, that DOES NOT MEAN that a man such as I can’t go his own way; it simply means that the circumstances under which I am doing it are different.
Better The Corner Of A Rooftop....
any happy moments with your kids are
…not worth the risk.
Why do you persist in pimping that judas goat bulls~~~? Will it be cries of NAWALT next? Why are you trying so hard to sell a fantasy that millions of men break themselves trying vainly to achieve?
Anyway, that DOES NOT MEAN that a man such as I can’t go his own way;
Actually, that’s exactly what it means. Going “your” own way at the sufferance of the family courts is not going your own way. You are going the way decided for you by the courts. All it takes is one phone call from “concerned” feminist teacher or neighbor or even anonymous bystander and you’ll learn the hard way how circumscribed and enslaved you really are. Don’t believe me? Try going some way the family courts don’t permit. You’ll see.
So much talking past each other. ZV’s musings are on that after divorce and enjoying time with your children. I don’t read his post as encouraging men to become fathers.
As a father, I understand his point and that of others. I would never encourage other men to experience what I am going through. However, I would encourage those who are, to enjoy their time with their children. I just spent this weekend teaching my son to count to 10 and chase bubbles around the back yard.
A co-worker recently told me, "If you want to see who someone really is, divorce them." I have found out how true this is. When your wife drops the façade of being the caring partner, you will witness all of the greed, hate, and spite that she has masked. It is truly breathtaking!
Anonymous3I understand ZombieVader’s point of view, but I also understand sidecar’s point of view.
Vader is saying that he loves his kids and treasures the moments he has with them. But he is also saying that he was lucky, he got to keep in contact his kids.
What Sidecar is saying is that many fathers are no so lucky, and we do have many examples in this site.
Nothing is black and white, there are always several shades of gray. The truth for most people will be somewhere in the middle.
But one has to ask himself: is it worthy?Let us for a moment look at the obnoxious “self-sacrifice” where we say “everything for the kids”. But for the kids, how can we let them be:
– subjected to psychological torture from the woman to alienate them from the father?
– subjected to the psychotic rule of a woman we cannot even stand anymore?Yes, we can sacrifice ourselves for our kids (I did).
That does not mean we are doing the best for them. We are simply doing what WE CAN in a rigged game. THEY are losing, and YOU are losing bad!Now, if I had a crystal ball, if I could learn how much pain they would be subjected in their lives, and how badly it would affect their personality, would I have them?
No.
The Red Pill is that crystal ball. I didn’t have to have a daughter that is now depressed and thinking on suicide. Especially when I knew the way things where going was not a good way and would end up like this. Yet my reasoning was “at least I will be here for her”.
That is what you get for trying to play a game were you have no good hands: you lose and your kids lose badly.
So, again, I understand Vader, and we should be happy for him and for his good times with his kids. The same way we should be sad for May 7, Twist, Blade and countless others.
But it proves that it is a Russian Roulette. The only way to win is not to play.
Gentlemen,
Hello- been cutting acres of grass today.
Apparently, my idle musing was polemic.
Definitely not a Hallmark moment. Just enjoying a happy day. Spent years in failing marriage hell; peaceful moments with my kids are something to be savored,now.
Lots of binary thinking, it seems- not sure why. I’ve been through a relatively minor divorce; I’m aware how much worse it could have been. I hate the divorce cash-and-prizes culture as much as anyone here- I’ve lived as a son, and a husband and father.
But, ultimately, we have to find some peace and happiness in the world we inhabit, not Galt’s Gulch. I had one, and shared it. Those of you who are fathers, can understand.
Those of you who aren’t, you’ll just have to take our word for it-any happy moments with your kids are to be cherished; regardless of how f~~~ed up the system is that allowed them to be subject to state decree.
Anyway, that DOES NOT MEAN that a man such as I can’t go his own way; it simply means that the circumstances under which I am doing it are different.
My friend you have nothing to apologise for. Everyone has different priorities in life. Fatherhood and a stake in the future are fine things to prioritise. Its not easy to achieve these days without some suffering and risk. But were we men not born to do such things as suffer and hazard well?
I have done a few things I am proud of in life. I finished top in my degree course in a notoriously hard subject, I have been called husband by a few, though I was only fool enough to marry the first, had fine long term mistresses too (its blue pill but it beats most blue pill braggers and that gives pleasure). I have stepped onto virgin summits, worn the queen’s commission on my shoulders (in the lowest of possible capacities I hasten to add), started and run my own business, put countless hours into learning marksmanship, spent many days under the sky and shot plenty of deer. None of that would be worth not having had even one of my children. I would sooner have been a jobless looser who lived in a flat in a big city and just watched TV all day than not had my children.
You go ahead and enjoy fatherhood. It is an achievement and a pleasure.
The secret is just to achieve this without selling your freedom to gynocentric culture. You have to find your own path for this and it sounds like you are doing this, so respect to you sir.
A woman is like fire -fun to play with, can warm you through and cook your food, needs constant feeding, can burn you and consume all you own
What Sidecar is saying is that many fathers are no so lucky, and we do have many examples in this site.
What I’m saying is that just because there are lottery winners doesn’t mean you should risk everything you have on a lottery ticket. It’s judas goat bait and switch bulls~~~. And almost all lottery winners are broke within a few years anyways.
Also just because a slave has become comfortable with his chains does not mean they aren’t chains. Or that he is not a slave.
What Sidecar is saying is that many fathers are no so lucky, and we do have many examples in this site.
What I’m saying is that just because there are lottery winners doesn’t mean you should risk everything you have on a lottery ticket. It’s judas goat bait and switch bulls~~~. And almost all lottery winners are broke within a few years anyways.
Also just because a slave has become comfortable with his chains does not mean they aren’t chains. Or that he is not a slave.
Absolutely- if having had children
makes one a slave, then yes-there are many millions of us who obviously are. That’s what love DOES- it “binds them to thine heart with hoops of steel”. And a Father’s Love is one of the most enduring, profound emotions a man will EVER know. NOTHING I ever did elicited the emotion I felt when my children were born. And, sadly, if you haven’t done it, you’ll never understand.Now, as to the legal aspect of your statement; that goes back as far as Western Civilization itself; to marry and procreate subjected a man to the State. Our state just happens to be egregiously unjust. And if I were to do it again, I’d do it differently to avoid being subject to Leviathan. But I’d still have kids. ( Maybe in Eastern Europe? )
And lastly, the future belongs to those who show up for it. So, if you don’t care about anything other than yourself, that’s fine. Solipsism is great fun. But, ultimately, if enough men go that route, the wheels come off the bus, and we all sit poolside with Roissy, whatching our world pass, all because we let the wimmins push the Duluth model and get away with it.
So- the question now, is- what do you care about OUTSIDE of yourself? Aside from YOU, what gives life meaning and purpose? Remember, nihilism is the Abyss,and when you peer into the Abyss…
All this, from sharing a moment from a whiffleball game on a spring evening…
Better The Corner Of A Rooftop....
Absolutely- if having had children
makes one a slave,It’s worse than that. It not only makes you a slave, it also makes you the family court’s bitch.
Having children doesn’t even make you a father. Not any more. Those are not your children. They are the village’s children. They are the state’s children. They are not yours. You are just the chump who pays the bills for then and is permitted to play the role of “male caregiver” for as long as you kowtow to the courts. Don’t believe me? do something the family courts disagree with, and then see how much of a “father” you really are.
That’s what love DOES
I’m talking about the law, not love. Love is irrelevant in the face of the law.
And, sadly, if you haven’t done it, you’ll never understand.
Oh f~~~ off with that bulls~~~ fallacy. Plenty of meth addicts say the exact same thing. It doesn’t justify their foolish mistakes either or mean I can’t understand they are idiots.
Now, as to the legal aspect of your statement; that goes back as far as Western Civilization itself; to marry and procreate subjected a man to the State.
Wrong.
Google paterfamilias.
Male providers used to have rights, not just responsibilities. They used to be actual Fathers, not just chumps who pay the bills and do as they’re told. The current clusterf~~~ that is “fatherhood 2.0” is a very recent product of feminism.
And lastly, the future belongs to those who show up for it.
The f~~~ should any Man care about the future? The future is not my problem.
But, ultimately, if enough men go that route, the wheels come off the bus,
The f~~~ should any Man care about the bus? Let it crash and burn.
I have plenty of vehicles of my own to serve my needs.
So- the question now, is- what do you care about OUTSIDE of yourself? Aside from YOU, what gives life meaning and purpose? Remember, nihilism is the Abyss,and when you peer into the Abyss…
Shame shame shame shame shame.
F~~~ off MRA with your bulls~~~ shaming attempts. Men should know better than to try that s~~~.
This is a forum for Men Going Their Own Way, not judas goat cucks and chumps sacrificing themselves to save the world for the great and holy gynocracy because “muh babbies”.
Absolutely- if having had children
makes one a slave,It’s worse than that. It not only makes you a slave, it also makes you the family court’s bitch.
Having children doesn’t even make you a father. Not any more. Those are not your children. They are the village’s children. They are the state’s children. They are not yours. You are just the chump who pays the bills for then and is permitted to play the role of “male caregiver” for as long as you kowtow to the courts. Don’t believe me? do something the family courts disagree with, and then see how much of a “father” you really are.
While you’re right about the court, you’re dead wrong about being a father. Agree to disagree, I suppose.
That’s what love DOES
I’m talking about the law, not love. Love is irrelevant in the face of the law.
Is it? Actually love something, then get back to me.
And, sadly, if you haven’t done it, you’ll never understand.
Oh f~~~ off with that bulls~~~ fallacy. Plenty of meth addicts say the exact same thing. It doesn’t justify their foolish mistakes either or mean I can’t understand they are idiots.
Subset for the whole- bulls~~~ fallacy, indeed.
Now, as to the legal aspect of your statement; that goes back as far as Western Civilization itself; to marry and procreate subjected a man to the State.
Wrong.
Google paterfamilias.
Male providers used to have rights, not just responsibilities. They used to be actual Fathers, not just chumps who pay the bills and do as they’re told. The current clusterf~~~ that is “fatherhood 2.0” is a very recent product of feminism.
Yes, I’m well familiar with Roman custom. And that’s what I said- the recent clusterf~~~ is a feminist byproduct. That must end, since it is evil and, ultimately, unsustainable.
And lastly, the future belongs to those who show up for it.
The f~~~ should any Man care about the future? The future is not my problem.
It’s not, that’s true. It’s not any individual’s problem. Erickson called it “Generativity vs. Stagnation”- the drive, mostly in men, to leave some legacy on this Earth. Some through their intellect, some through their construction, some through their children. Most men have it, which is what makes them “chumps”. But those “chumps” built the world you now inhabit. And now, many of them are waking up, and looking to fix the problem- gyneco-tyranny- while still protecting their Civilization.
They AREN’T mutually exclusive.
But, you’re right-MGTOW is about going your own way- and that precludes a lot.But, ultimately, if enough men go that route, the wheels come off the bus,
The f~~~ should any Man care about the bus? Let it crash and burn.
I have plenty of vehicles of my own to serve my needs.
Nope, wrong- we’re ALL on the bus. The food you eat, the water you drink, the road you drive, the car you drive it in- that’s the “BUS”. Delivered and maintained by an army of “chumps”.
You damn well BETTER care about the “bus”, cause if it goes, so do we all.So- the question now, is- what do you care about OUTSIDE of yourself? Aside from YOU, what gives life meaning and purpose? Remember, nihilism is the Abyss,and when you peer into the Abyss…
Shame shame shame shame shame.
F~~~ off MRA with your bulls~~~ shaming attempts. Men should know better than to try that s~~~.
This is a forum for Men Going Their Own Way, not judas goat cucks and chumps sacrificing themselves to save the world for the great and holy gynocracy because “muh babbies”.
Nope, nope, and more nope. Nothing about “shame”. Everything about “you”. How do you find meaning? In this context, it’s purely personal. Most men find purpose in things outside themselves.
You’ve, by your own admission, precluded that possibility. So now what? Where does a MGTOW go for his greater purpose? “Licking the earth” ain’t gonna cut it.
So, anger aside- there are millions of men who came to this knowledge AFTER we had families. What do you say to them?
“Sucker?”
Better The Corner Of A Rooftop....
So, anger aside- there are millions of men who came to this knowledge AFTER we had families. What do you say to them?
“Sucker?”
With their experience and painfully gained wisdom, I’d like to think of them as hopefully “Teacher”.
And, yes- as you are the legacy of those who raised you.
Like it or not, we are all the echoes of long-dead voices..
That’s a very interesting way to put it. Really makes me think. It would be very cool to be able to go far back in time and see what a distant ancestor was like and to know that had he not made the choice to have a child/children, you wouldn’t be here now.
I like that you are choosing to focus on the positive rather than the negative. Nothing wrong with enjoying time with your children who you obviously care for. Good for you.
My 23 year old son was supposed to spend some time with me and his grandfather this weekend, but said he forgot. I blame his girlfriend for being such a distraction in his life. Ha!
The evil in women’s hearts leaves them no moral bounds as to inhibit them from descending to the lowest levels of darkness to acquire their self entitled desires.
All this, from sharing a moment from a whiffleball game on a spring evening…
Indeed. How dare you enjoy your life with your children and then share it on here, you dirty bastard?
I don’t get it either. Seems like some people only focus on negative things and live in misery and are then offended when someone speaks of something positive and being happy.
I appreciated your post. Thanks for sharing. It reminded me of simpler times when I was a child with my father. Also makes me appreciate the time I shared with my son as he was growing up, teaching him how to shoot a gun for the first time, playing catch with him. You can never spend enough time with your children even if they live with you full time.
Life is good if you make it so, in spite of the bad that may come your way. You choose. You have the freedom of choice. I’ll not wallow in misery because of the unjust laws. Society will not drag me down and take away my happiness. Bad times will come and go, but I am at peace. I am content.
The evil in women’s hearts leaves them no moral bounds as to inhibit them from descending to the lowest levels of darkness to acquire their self entitled desires.
Exactly.
Better The Corner Of A Rooftop....
How do you find meaning?
How do you quantify “meaning”?
Most men find purpose in things outside themselves.
Those aren’t men. Those are chumps.
Where does a MGTOW go for his greater purpose?
“Greater Purpose” is a weasel word term used to sell chumpitude to chumps.
“Licking the earth” ain’t gonna cut it.
F~~~ off tradcon.
So, anger aside- there are millions of men who came to this knowledge AFTER we had families. What do you say to them?
“Sucker?”
I’m not the one who made them thus. Just because they f~~~ed up doesn’t mean I should pretend they didn’t f~~~ up to protect their precious feefees.
They are the example for MGTOW to learn from. They are not something to aspire to. Meanwhile you are a tradcon judas goat trying to tell Men to ignore those lessons and chump for the gynocracy anyways.
And finally:
And, yes- as you are the legacy of those who raised you.
Bulls~~~.
If that were true I’d be just another piece of s~~~ street thug statistic.
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