Just out of Jail

[Robot112Participant 156]

I’m getting these bouts of depression.

I’m not going to go back, because I went back too many times and nothing ever changed, in fact it got worse. I’m getting too old now to waste more time. At the same time I keep thinking what’s the difference, she will never leave me alone, at least until all children are grown ups and even then…

I’m worried where to live? It’ll not be easy to find a place that I can afford, having to pay for the house as well. In the Hollywood Movies, men just move into fine hotels when they divorce. I can assure you that that’s not possible.

Winston Churchill said “If you go through hell, keep going”. I kept going for a long time and I found a door this week (or the door found me)but seems to be just another hell…

Thanks all, your support keeps me going!

[DilbertParticipant 281]

You may need to widen your perspective about “where to live”.  I don’t know what they call them in the UK but look for someone renting out just a room in their house.  Or a situation where a group of people who got together to rent a home together and one of them had to move so the others need to find a new roommate.  Be creative and ask/look around for the cheapest situation.  All you need is a room to sleep in, a bathroom, and a kitchen.

Minimize all your expenses.  Cook your own meals.  Take public transportation.  Etc.  Make two budgets that will both fit within your income and stick to them.  One for the minimal she needs to run the house and take car of the kids.  The other for yourself.  She will whine and cry and make threats about her share of the money but if you are firm and don’t pay attention to a damn thing she says she WILL eventually figure out how to make it work.

You simply CANNOT move back in with her.  Period.  You can offer it to her as a carrot to get her to fully drop all charges and claims against you but then yank it back.

You have to set brutal limits on her.  There is an excellent book called “Boundaries”  by Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend.  It’s probably available of Amazon.com.  It is sub-titled “When to say yes, how to say no to take control of your life”.  Order it now and read it many times through.

When you say “she will never leave me alone” you are once again engaging in defeatist thinking and letting her define your reality.  Does she *really* control whether you can be alone or not?  Every single time you have any defeatist thoughts/feelings you have to zero in on them and usher them out of your head/heart.  They simply are NOT to be entertained or tolerated.  Immediately replace them with a proactive, encouraging thought/feeling.

The difference between the hell you were in before and the one you are in now is this one will eventually end.  Ask all the other guys on this forum who were in your current situation  for awhile.  They ALL have said it was more than worth it.  Many also would say though they weren’t sure at the time.

It is for very good reasons the Devil chose to tempt Eve not Adam...

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Puffin Stuff wrote:

I would never speak with her again except when there are witnesses present that will support your side.

I’m with HR on that. His waking nightmare cost him $300K

Robot112 wrote:

At the same time I keep thinking what’s the difference, she will never leave me alone, at least until all children are grown ups and even the

I would like to know where women get off treating their husbands like they hate them. I’ve seen this so many times before. It’s like.. he’s better off never having known her – than ever marrying her. But defintely have the courage to let her hate you. The “difference” is she’s going to treat you like an asshole no matter WHAT you do…. so you may as well just go ahead and BE an asshole.

I’m serious.

The only thing a woman hates more than a man , is a man not under her control.

When she hates you when you live with her… and she’ll hate you when you don’t — DON’T. Don’t remain her punching bag, just because you’re going to get s~~~ on anyway. Refuse her the satisfaction. The beauty of control freaks is understanding when you pull away from them, they drive themselves crazy. If a woman ever put me in jail, I would sleep on the street and disappear before she ever got another second of my time and attention again. I would MAKE SURE she will leave me alone.

Dilbert wrote:

You have to set brutal limits on her.

Yep.

(only the first minute of this video applies)

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[experiencedParticipant]

You really gotta do what Dilbert says regarding living quarters. As guys, I honestly think getting the absolutely cheapest setup works best, the bs that bothers women doesn’t bother us. As Dilbert said, ask around, a lot. Ask people in person at places you’re checking. The current renters usually have a lot of applicable info especially if they’re relatively new. Initially I found the searching somewhat upsetting, in that it seems there’s no answer, BUT there is, you just have to keep plugging away at it.   It’s like swimming where the water’s cold, you really get used to it quickly. Your X2B is going to have to face the laws of physics here in that one divided by two equals 0.5 !  She seems the type to lazily increase the beatings until morale improves so Ignore her. Ignore = “refuse to take notice of or acknowledge; disregard intentionally: “he ignored her outraged question”   · take no notice of · pay no attention to”

pretty effing revealing that the first definition web wise yields that example.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Yes ignore ignore ignore. Men have to treat attention … like women treat sex. Withhold that s~~~ as much as possible.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[DilbertParticipant 281]

I just recently came out of a period of serious depression (I now have much more sympathy/understanding of people who suffer from it).  I know how hard it can be, even to just get your arse out of bed.  If you don’t have an addictive personality it’s OK to use escape substances (or whatever allows you to suspend dealing with reality) to get you through the roughest moments.  It’s just a bridge to get to the other side.  But only if you have determined/resolved to make your way through it, not as a permanent crutch.  Allow a trusted friend to tell you when they think you are escaping too much.

Start new, productive habits that take up your time and energy.  These are what will lift you out of your depression and keep on the road of your new life plan.  You did create that already, right?  On average a new habit takes 30 instances to make it stick.  Get a wall calendar and write down 30 instances of the new habit(s) (working out, jogging, taking a walk, writing a memoir, doing something fun, creating something, etc).  Don’t skip any  and cross each one off as you do it.  Trust me, it just works and after about #20 you will find yourself wanting to do the new habit or missing it if you skip.  You will also be amazed how quickly it helps.

You may lose regular contact with your kids fro a while.  It’s OK, they are teenagers and they know/understand way more than you think.  Just love them the best you can and trust that 5 years from now you will have your relationships with them restored.  And then you can fully be their father without the interference/harassment of your ex-wife.  Yes, you need to start always calling her that.

Your 3 year old will probably not remember this part of their life.  You will be better situated to be a real father to him/her when all this clears.  And do get the paternity test as someone else suggested.  It’s real hard to swallow the idea that she’s been shagging other guys but it’s also a high probability.  Narcissistic women need that affirmation of themselves and after you were tamed and sidelined it’s very likely she went shopping.

Remember, keep checking back in here.

It is for very good reasons the Devil chose to tempt Eve not Adam...

[Anonymous 11]

Robot, all of the advice and wisdom the Brothers have given you is very good and spot on right. You are facing a very serious tribulation with this woman, and she is dangerous to you. You’re also doing the right thing in documenting everything. I’m more inclined to go with BPD as NPD is more common among men so I’m playing the odds here. BPD does have a very strong narcissistic element to it though. Hell, she could be both.

Keymaster has given you excellent advice here:

Robot112 wrote:

Manipulators think they are in control of everything. That’s their hubris.
Fortunately, NOBODY is easier to manipulate — than a manipulator.

As tough as it sounds, the best thing for you would be for her to get a replacement for you. If she has one already, then thank your lucky stars and leverage it to your advantage. Borderlines absolutely need a host to control, and a replacement host will turn her attention to him instead of you. You will need to be very strategic here and choose your tactics wisely as you are dealing with a person with a serious personality disorder.

We had a couple of threads past this week where Key introduced the term “Feigning Beta”. I once dated a Borderline for three months who then tried to cuckold me once she thought she could control me. I am not one to be controlled. I had to Feign Beta to make her think she was in control of the breakup.

She is a master people manipulator as a result of that personality disorder and will be painting you blacker than night to others. Do not fight your battles with her in her arena. She will probably be summoning White Knights to protect her as she is portraying you as the abuser. Do whatever it takes to make her think she is controlling the process while you are really the one doing it. It will require that you swallow your pride as well as summon your inner courage as you will need it.

We’re pulling for you man. Also, you might want to visit bpdfamily.com. There are lots of great resources and experienced folks who can help you through this. It’s nothing like mgtow.com, of course, but it’s populated by a very good group of people as is this place. They just have a different mission. Borderlines are very f~~~ed up individuals.

[DakotaParticipant 341]

Keymaster wrote:

If a woman ever put me in jail, I would sleep on the street and disappear before she ever got another second of my time and attention again.

Still can’t believe your wife threw you in jail.  She had you hauled-off like a criminal and your freedom taken away…ALL to show you ultimately WHO IS IN CONTROL.   The circle of trust…bombed.   Betrayed with a kiss.  How could a man sleep soundly living in the same house with the enemy?  What’s her next move…strychnine in your meatloaf?  GeeZus.       

[experiencedParticipant]

Pray.  When you wake up and your heart rate is ~300, and you can’t feel your legs from the knees down nor your arms from the shoulderblades out, breathe fully, deeply, slightly faster, to get your heart rate down, and since you aren’t going anywhere………………..Pray. It really helped me. Really.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[Robot112Participant 156]

Guys I want to quote every bit of advice here, it’s so good, but it’s too much so rest assured every bit helps dramatically.

Just a bit more info about me, I have been reading shrinkformen.com for a while which helped me a lot. I will definitely read “Boundaries”

Also, I have an addictive personality, I used to drink to get through this treatment until ten years ago and finally sobered up,  which sort of is when I began to  realize  things are awfully wrong. I don’t drink any longer so I have to face the beast sober 🙂

I’ve seen the kids today. My daughter said a few days ago she said she did only want me scared not thrown into jail. Today she got mad and told her she was happy they threw me in jail and she would do it again if she had to. (Hearing that felt good as it makes me feel stronger about my decision)

I started a diary now, catching up from the day I got arrested. And I have began a plan of action as you have all suggested.

One more piece of information. My eldest daughter left our house a few years ago at the age of 19, because she couldn’t take her s~~~ any longer. (The older the kids get the more control she loses over them which makes her go nuts too) My wife forbade me any contact with her. At that point things began to go crazy as I of course have not stopped contact with her and explained to my wife that I love my children unconditionally and I would never abandon my daugher for nobody. She has never forgiven me that I disobeyed her “order” and has since verbally attacked me every day. One day 2 years ago or so she attacked me physically and I left the home. I went to police to ask them to accompany me to prevent the breach of peace, and picked up my things. I did not press charges as I did not want the mother of my small child in trouble.  I was back the same day…and the hell started the same day all over(I wish I knew about Mgtow then) I should add that after I brought the Police home to help me pack, she never attacked me physically again. Anyway I thought I share this too as it helps.

 

 

[experiencedParticipant]

Wise idea, the diary. Write everything in it, everything. To reduce stress, bolster your case in a serious way, and years from now, when you start fuzzing things, you’ll look and think, “I can’t effing believe this! even though you do, and you know it’s the truth. I read back and it was unbelievable, shaking my head now, even thinking about it. Maybe men are too forgiving – especially when there is absolutely zero remorse. Women know this, I’ve seen it, blatantly.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[DilbertParticipant 281]

Once again you made my day a lot brighter by checking in.  Good report or bad.  But really liked hearing a good one!

Definitely avoid substances for escape, but you’ve heard some other good advice here about how to deal with the low points.

From what you say it’s worse than we thought.  Which means she is going to go positively apes~~~ crazy the day it hits her that it is really finally over.  Delay that day as long as possible by stringing her along so you can have all your evidence and ducks in a row.

As far as the older kids go, I think you have not a single thing to worry in terms of harming your relationship with them (they may even be willing to testify against mom so you can get the 3 year old).  Especially once you get healthy.  Years from now I can see you having many good times with them and your grand kids.  Just think what it will be like to relate to them outside the oppressive,  controlling presence of your ex-wife.  Let those thoughts motivate you and keep you on track!

 

It is for very good reasons the Devil chose to tempt Eve not Adam...

[TheBeastParticipant 79]

I wouldn’t advise getting kids to testify, all you can do is multiply the hate they will get from the mother. As long as you don’t/can’t have full custody over them you shouldn’t put them in that spot. Other than that, take it slow, try to relax a lot and become indifferent to her. Remember that hating her is also an emotion, regardless whether they are positive or negative, try to rid yourself of them and become indifferent to her.

[DarthWParticipant 70]

Robot, while I’ve never been married, so never have had to go through what you’re experiencing, years ago, after the break up of my last serious relationship – before MGTOW –  I hit a long depression period.  The triggers for me were more like a mid-life crisis, thinking maybe I’d missed out on something by never marrying, and had ended that last relationship.  Even though I knew my last GF was going to bring a lot of mess into my life, and when I’d considered the relationship getting more serious I couldn’t see any benefit for me (but plenty of financial benefit for her) I still got into a pretty deep depression for quite some time.  I probably struggled up and down for over a year, or more.  I’m not someone who struggles with any type of BPD, or other depression, so it was a new, rough experience.    The key point is that I didn’t use any type of anti-depressant (you mention struggling in the path with some addiction), and while some days can be rough, you will make it out of any type of depression with time since it is evoked by what you’re going through and not something clinical.    The depression will eventually end.

Things like MGTOW forums and articles helped me.  A lot of members of this forum are familiar with Tom Leykis internet radio program (www.blowmeuptom.com), and I found some great advice, humor, and information from his show as well.

[Anonymous 42]

Somebody get robot a bag of ice, he’s all beat up! I don’t know what kind of demon possesses your wife to forbid contact with your child, but that’s one of the most narcissistic things there is. I can’t imagine restricting another persons associations! I have NO control over others, only myself. Plenty of men are fertilizing daisies after living a life of such intolerable abuse.

I bet I’d make a good atomic launch button pusher… After extracting so many people from my life, I have no problem utterly destroying a persons existence and banishing them to MG-Tower hell forever! It keeps me sane and functional!

[Robot112Participant 156]

Arrghh she still believes I’m going back to her as soon as this forced separation is over. Apparently she is too unhappy to do anything and apparently I did this, she says I did beat her and put the family through this. (I did not!)

I know I have to ignore her and I try!

I’m glad you are all coming back here, it helps seeing your messages everyday!!! I will see my little boy again this evening.

[Puffin StuffParticipant 25018]

Go see a mental health professional. I am a doctor and you are in desperate need of psychological counseling to reduce your risk of suicide. This is serious as a heart attack but more deadly.

Don’t do anything else. Don’t worry about your ex or kids, don’t worry about money or your job. Get to a professional.

You can’t help yourself or your kids if you are dead. But being dead seems superior to feeling the terrible feelings of depression.

I know this will sound controvertial here but anti-depressents work wonders today. There has been a revolution in psychiatry in the last 30 years and things we thought were only in your head are actual physiologic changes due to trauma like your going through.

Every thing is temporary. Your wife, your kids, your living situation.

But suicide is not temporary. It is a permanent solution to a very fleeting temporary situation that half of all married men will go through.

They should make men take suicide protection courses before men are allowed to marry.

#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Robot112 wrote:

Arrghh she still believes I’m going back to her as soon as this forced separation is over. Apparently she is too unhappy to do anything

Who cares “what she believes”. Let her believe the sky is pink if she wants. Let her believe it. Let her be “too unhappy”. Good! Celebrate that s~~~. Let her be MISERABLE. You have only one goal and sort out the living situation. Her happiness USED to matter to you. But are you really want to be making it a priority NOW???

Maybe make her a deal. Tell her you USED to care about her happiness , but after she f~~~ed everything – including your life up – you no longer give a s~~~. If you’re not going to tell HER that, tell yourself that. The days of MGTOW caring when women say “IM NOT HAAAAAAAAAAPY” are f~~~ing OVER.

Forget “happy”. Let women chase that crap.
When a man is CONTENT… “happiness” is sure to follow.

So do whatever you have to do to be CONTENT.

Women don’t see the value in being content. That’s why they bitch about not being “happY” all the time – even when nothing is wrong. Let women chase “happy”. When they aren’t “happy”, they are MISERABLE.

Robot112 wrote:

I’m glad you are all coming back here, it helps seeing your messages everyday!!! I will see my little boy again this evening.

That’s great!!

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[DilbertParticipant 281]

You are so used to your day-to-day reality having to include her, the house, the kids, your routines, social life, etc. that it is very, very hard to separate yourself from that.

But until you do the pull of going back to it will be too strong to resist.  It was your “normal” and a key part of your depression, sense of unease, anxiety, etc is that your “normal” got abruptly displaced.

It is human nature to need a “normal” so you have GOT to start creating a new one today.  And it HAS to exclude her.  Period.  Most of your last post indicates that she and what she thinks are still part of your “normal”.

If you keep that up you will end up back in hell.  And guys here will shake their heads and give up posting because they know it would be futile.

If you don’t radically change things you are going to end up where you are headed.  Just where are you headed?

It is for very good reasons the Devil chose to tempt Eve not Adam...

[Robot112Participant 156]

@dilbert I’m not going back and I need you guys to keep posting. I check many times a day just to get this incredible help you all are offering to me. I have lived in hell and I admit I am completely disorientated but I am becoming “clearer” everyday. Even work gets a little easier now.

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