I Believe MGTOW to be wrong, or at least, misnamed

[TruthySpectator 2]

Himeo wrote:

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>John Doe wrote:</div>
I am glad you can see the importance of the “premise” in an argument and/or philosophy. You don’t know how many debates I have had simply because of the premise one started their argument with. What a lot of “rational” people don’t understand is that the “premise” to their argument is an act of faith rather than reason. A lot of unintelligent men cannot discern the difference.

Not to derail the thread, but I loved this quote given your deistic / theistic world view from the “Can Atheists be MGTOW?” thread. Happily we have found a premise that has proven itself true reliably and repeatedly through observation and experimentation. We can now safely abandon philosophy for science. Join us, brother, in the abandonment of the false premise of religion! /sarcasm

<div class=”d4p-bbt-quote-title”>TheTruth wrote:</div>
I am NOT a female and have no problem proving it to you if necessary. Not every male is the same and speaks the same. I don’t believe your skepticism is warranted. Clearly the logical construction of my post would preclude me from being female?

Your arguments aren’t setting off skepticism. It’s the emotional manipulation you’re lacing your posts with. “I’m a guy.” “AS fellow MGTOW.” Trying to obfuscate by speaking in generalities instead of specifics and hiding behind platitudes like “it’s complicated”. What was the Shakespeare quote, “The lady doth protest too much, methinks”? It’s offensive that you believe women are incapable of logical reasoning or imply that MGTOW are required to believe this.

 

Sorry I accidentally reported you. I meant to click the reply button. I can’t win with you guys. I’ve offered to prove I’m male, so why the need for further skepticism? Its like MGTOWs enter into a paranoid sphere where every possible conjecture is not just considered, but believed to be highly probable. I recognize the need for it as a defense against female tactics. But I’m OFFERING to prove I’m male. It is irrational to continue to protest in the face of an offer of proof. In other words, I’m not the only one who ‘protesteth much’.

[Soul ManParticipant 1856]

 

HISTORY...learn from it, memorize it, DON'T repeat it...

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Himeo.

Not to derail the thread, but I loved this quote given your deistic / theistic world view from the “Can Atheists be MGTOW?” thread.

I am a man of faith and reason.  I observe the limits of both.  They can both exist at the same time in different respects.  If I am correct you had a contradictory argument because you claimed to only be rational and argued from assumed/belief based premises. Athiesm is not rational, so sue me.  This thread is not about that thread though.  I have to right to defend myself and who I chose at my own expense.  That is an act of personal soveignty.

In regards to left/right views, MGTOW is above those.  We have a separate thread on that.

[…Spectator 1165]

John: I’m not here to stop you from posting anything you wish. you are cracking me up as per usual. carry on. MG-good to see you. I left you a video over in the special Ops thread I think you’ll enjoy……………

[John DoeParticipant 743]

It is irrational to continue to protest in the face of an offer of proof.

A woman could not explain her views in an intelligent manner, whether they are right or wrong is beside the point.  I believe you are male simply because you can respond with an argument that is not emotionally based on “I feel” etc.

You are going to be hated.  I have seen this before.  A lot of “MGTOWS” cannot think for themselves.  A lot can though.  Their is a solid mix, and that is important.  You need the “emotional” ones for cannon fodder in any movement.  It is to be expected.

[Anonymous 11]

@johndoe: Actually, intuitive thinking style is one characteristic of being right brain dominant. Don’t worry we’re used to being misunderstood.

I’m an analytical right brainer and have been involved with left brain dominant STEM folks for years. I also troubleshoot highly complicated multi-variate technical problems primarily via intuition for a living and can jump 10 steps in an instant. The left brainers freak when I ID a problem so quickly. It’s not infallible though very reliable. Upon failure, I switch into left brain mode.

The right brain sees the whole picture and does not follow the same informational processing methods as the left hemisphere does. My left brain is no slouch either as I’ve taken a large number of higher level math courses.

Female intuition is another animal totally.

[Anonymous 14]

@op

There aren’t any men or women. We are all individuals, all different and unique in our own ways. Men and Women are just another one of the myriad social denominations created to control us, its just another illusion. Those generalizations you made about “Men” and “Women” are precisely a part of that package called Genders™.

And MGTOW isn’t a collective, its a perception based on the conclusion that we may be powerless to change others but we definitely are not without the power over our selves. We are MEN going our OWN way. There may be things more common between us than not but still we are all uniquely going our OWN way. Keyword: OWN

Methinks you took the Blue and the Red pill together and have gotten confused with all the conflicting information being bombarded to your brain 😛

[AFTParticipant 2722]

Truthy wrote:

Hello, First let me start off by saying I’m a man, not a woman. Indeed, I’m a MGTOW. However,…….*BECAUSE EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU KNOW IS A LIE* ……… Consequently, EVERY MGTOW PHILOSOPHY IS WRONG. The Concept of “The Wall(TM)” is WRONG, the concept of hypergamy is WRONG, the concept of female cheating is WRONG WRONG WRONG. ……. However, women are not the genysis of this system. Indeed, they are pawns…….. Oh and let me dispell another MGTOW MYTH: There is *NO* such thing as an Alpha or beta male………  

So in your opening thread you say you’re not a woman, in fact you’re a MGTOW, then it’s a lie and wrong, thank you I rest my case.

 

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[HimeoParticipant 471]

John Doe wrote:

Himeo.

Not to derail the thread, but I loved this quote given your deistic / theistic world view from the “Can Atheists be MGTOW?” thread.

I am a man of faith and reason. I observe the limits of both. They can both exist at the same time in different respects. If I am correct you had a contradictory argument because you claimed to only be rational and argued from assumed/belief based premises. Athiesm is not rational, so sue me. This thread is not about that thread though. I have to right to defend myself and who I chose at my own expense. That is an act of personal soveignty.

In regards to left/right views, MGTOW is above those. We have a separate thread on that.

This is a very interesting point worthy of discussion in the Atheism thread.

Can we derail this thread and go FULL MCCARTHY up in here? I’d love to start pointing fingers at who I suspect to be infected with cooties.

[TruthySpectator 2]

John Doe wrote:

I watched the original Nacho Vidal from the forum after happy bachelor torpedo his mgtow forum and I watched/lurked as mgtowhq rose to prominence in the year and a half or so since. Not to change the thread direction, but how did

that forum fall?

I don’t remember the particulars well, but Nacho Vidal got into it with some jerkoff on his forum. Eventually, it escalated to threats of doxxing I think, or some legal action was threatened. Anyway, it was very crazy and very much ‘matrix-esque’, i.e. the ‘savior’ figure starts anew has his disciples, ‘dies’ and then they ‘spread’ his message. Seems exactly like the lie the machines told every version of ‘The One’s descendants’ in the Matrix. I.e. Morpheus didn’t realize that the person he deified was working with the machines, was part of a recycling program and that they were never getting out of Zion.

No gents, my argument is that MGTOW is a rational reaction to an IRRATIONAL premise, i.e. a general is about to flank us and wipe us out using subterfuge. I am glad you can see the importance of the “premise” in an argument and/or philosophy. You don’t know how many debates I have had simply because of the premise one started their argument with. What a lot of “rational” people don’t understand is that the “premise” to their argument is an act of faith rather than reason. A lot of unintelligent men cannot discern the difference.

Yes. I too have been in one of those debates where the opposition couldn’t see that they WERE IN FACT placing faith in a premise (i.e. unproven assumption), and were going from there oblivious. It’s a very frustrating exercise.

 

Proof I am male:

https://clyp.it/jh31uvjr

 

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Chauvinistic pig:  Good, now the name throwing can stop and we can skip straight to actual debates.  I am an INTJ too and as I said, only women rely upon “gut feeling” “intuition”.  I should have corrected myself by saying that is all they use.  As a man I can observe the limits of “intuition” and “critical” thinking and apply both in a manner as I see fit.  I was psychologically tested for a school program and found to have a memory similar to a nuclear physicist.  I do not agree with psychological testing because of the methods, but that is what they said.  Right or wrong, who knows who cares.  My point is that intelligent men can have contrary views and still get along.

The name calling is unnecessary and makes us look bad.  That is primarily why I am backing “Thetruth” up.

Listen Up:  I do apologize I don’t want any hard feelings on either side.  I will explain myself using a metaphor.  Remember it is only a metaphor. When a monkey throws s~~~ around, I get upset, but then I correct myself.  I cannot be mad at an animal for acting in accordance with its nature.

[Smitty the Great OneParticipant 1535]

Truth… whom or whatever you may be. I’ve tried real hard to read your lengthy posts, and it makes sense only if you believe society can be saved at this point. As for me, I know better; Modern western civilization is toast. We have been thoroughly demoralized and our currencies debased. All that is left is the fall, so you go ahead and try and form a “Crusade” to save society, but I’m not going there with you. You spout some high moral sounding motives, good for you…. I’m still not going with you. Women NEED men to survive, well no s~~~ Sherlock, I’m STILL NOT GOING WITH YOU.

I don’t give a flat f~~~, who needs what… WHY you ask? Because no one seems even the slightest bit interested in MY needs. So if you want to tilt at windmills, I give you leave, but you’ll bloody well do it without me. I’ve fought my last good fight, and I’ll live the rest of my days in peace doing as I please. You don’t like it, tough s~~~….

Life is too long to play by someone elses rules....

[Anonymous 11]

@john Doe. Thanks and I respect you for it, brother. Also, I’m an ENTP, we love to debate and do not ever hold malice for differing opinions. I always back my intuitive leaps with logic as they are not always right either.

The fact that Truth has listened to my suggestion to shrink his posts is moving him back more to the man column for me. He’s very emotional in his writing style, and we have hair triggers on any women being here for a damn good reason too. So Truth, that is one of the reasons you’re catching some flack.

We are a refuge for men some of whom have been seriously abused.

[TruthySpectator 2]

Sorry, I reported someone again, meant to hit reply.

There aren’t any men or women. We are all individuals, all different and unique in our own ways. Men and Women are just another one of the myriad social denominations created to control us, its just another illusion. Those generalizations you made about “Men” and “Women” are precisely a part of that package called Genders™.

This is very true. Indeed, you can see that I’ve already come to this conclusion if you’re reading closely. That is why I stated that men and women exist on a gender spectrum and can ‘simulate’ though not perfectly the other gender–by moving their vibration to across the scale. Some people due to genetics fall further along than others, but indeed we are all individuals, which brings me to the solution to the problem I proposed. Go to the bottom.

And MGTOW isn’t a collective, its a perception based on the conclusion that we may be powerless to change others but we definitely are not without the power over our selves. We are MEN going our OWN way. There may be things more common between us than not but still we are all uniquely going our OWN way. Keyword: OWN

I would like to thing so. But over the years I’ve noticed MGTOW fall prey to the same thing that made them blue pill in the first place. You see, you have to understand what blue-pill is: thinking that is contrary to reality. It is only by believing falsehoods can you be controlled at this time. However, my reading of the situation is that if these people succeed, then you will have no choice in your thought process, it will be ‘audited’ by some socialist hambeast with a vendatta.

THAT’S why I’m bringing this message. Not because I want to white-knight or save tang. I LOVE being single and doing whatever I want. But my question is am I indulging in a male paradise at the expense of humanity (women) and eventually my own gender–just like women did with feminism? Women were promised it all and indeed they were given it all, but read my original post: SOMEONE HAD TO SACRIFICE. That was men. They had to get us mad at women. Mad enough to walk away forever.

Methinks you took the Blue and the Red pill together and have gotten confused with all the conflicting information being bombarded to your brain

There is a lot of bombardment, and a lot of conflict, but that is because the nature of reality is much deeper and ‘more complicated’ than we’re lead to believe. That is how men become blue-pill. Blindly trusting authorities and impressions that become subconcious ‘feelings and desires’ (like men wanting female romance and commitment…have you heard of such a thing)? Perhaps all these women HATE their husbands, not because women have suddenly turned to s~~~, but because the CREATORS OF THE SYSTEM deliberately promised women to ‘eat their cake and have it too’? Sidenote: this is the proper use of this phrase, not the 16th century, “have your cake and eat it too” corruption which is perfectly logical and fine, while the former is a good example of impossibility, the original meaning of the phrase, but I digress…

 

Oh yea, the solution! The sovereign man/woman movement. Everyone participates in every interaction voluntarily. This prevents women from screwing men over because men still have to choose to deal with women here. Because men don’t HAVE to deal with women, women have far less incentive to f~~~ things up. You see this situation arose because of incentives. The incentives of both genders were played with. Women’s incentive to find and keep a man happy (the TRUE ORIGIN of the stay at home mom, smart women realized sex don’t keep man, but food do 😉 ), has always been much higher than her incentive to s~~~-test and generally f~~~ with him.

BUT WHAT MEN DON’T UNDERSTAND is the mechanism that keeps women ‘behaving’ is ALSO different from men. Women are kept in check threats. Threats of instability, threats of violence, threats of being left, threats of being cut off (ironically if you’re still blue pill). Men DON’T respond well to threats. Women do. Because men don’t it is NOT OBVIOUS to men who haven’t been told, that women DO respond well to that kind of aggression. So men become confused and start acting ‘nice’ because, well that’s what they’re told. But you can’t just say ANYTHING. Like you couldn’t say, women like dirty, s~~~ty people who never bathe because men can CLEARLY deduce that that is false.

So you need to tell them something that they have a predisposition to believe, i.e. that women like nice guys. They don’t, but because men like nice women it makes intuitive sense that women would too. Nobody likes it be abused, right? Wrong.

[TruthySpectator 2]

Anonymous wrote:

@john Doe. Thanks and I respect you for it, brother. Also, I’m an ENTP, we love to debate and do not ever hold malice for differing opinions. I always back my intuitive leaps with logic as they are not always right either. The fact that Truth has listened to my suggestion to shrink his posts is moving him back more to the man column for me. He’s very emotional in his writing style, and we have hair triggers on any women being here for a damn good reason too. So Truth, that is one of the reasons you’re catching some flack. We are a refuge for men some of whom have been seriously abused.

Again, I’m sorry for the length. Please see the attached clip above proving my male gender. I type quickly and in large volumes because this is like a podcast that I’ve been tuning into for a year now and if I don’t get it out before I’m banned I think I will explode. I’m much more ’emotional’ than most men I believe. This has gotten me into trouble, but I think that is really just a manifestation of my alpha (male) energy. There are no betas, only faux-women, or men that have been turned into women in order to be cogs in the engine. The good life (the life ALL MEN were meant to live) is being save for a very few ‘alphas’ who are nothing more than thugs, thieves and ne’er-do-wells. Women do not naturally find this attractive. It is only the fact that that man goes after what he wants that she is attracted to him.

You see women don’t care about our laws, that’s why the law was traditionally male; because, women had no place there literally. You can’t guarantee a woman won’t lie. You can’t with a man either, obviously, but men lie less than women do, and we don’t lie JUST TO LIE. So when you describe everything you hate about women choosing thugs, notice that is like women getting mad at you for choosing that lithe, well-figured, smiling redhead at the bar even though *GASP* her panty lines are showing through her dress! Or *EEEEP* her shoes don’t match her purse AND belt. That outfit is horrendous. Get it? THEY DON’T CARE. Why should they care if you follow the law anyway? Anyone with money and power certainly doesn’t. ‘Following the law’ like a stickler is the fastest way to show you’re beta; because you let someone else tell you what to do. THIS IS WHAT/HOW WOMEN THINK. THIS IS WHAT MEN DON’T KNOW. Sorry again for the length.

[TruthySpectator 2]

Oh and notice the ‘delicious *irony*’ that feminism is actually worse for women that the original deal was. That alone should tell you that MGTOW may indeed be a planned counterstrategy to finish the game off. Think about it, women were the biggest anti-feminists. At first that sounds ironic, but ONLY if you’re blue-pill! If you agree with my theory/premise, you will see that THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT! Women KNOW/KNEW they didn’t want equality and they saw through the bulls~~~ of the suffragists. It was *THE MEN* who fell prey to the trap because it was designed to be believable. One MGTOW said, “The reason we went along with feminism in the 70s was because we looked around at the housewives and they were all crazy…We thought being a housewife did that. Turns out they’re just crazy.” or something to that effect.

[Smitty the Great OneParticipant 1535]

Dude, seriously…. stop… no one gives a f~~~ for you opinion

Life is too long to play by someone elses rules....

[TruthySpectator 2]

Smitty the Great One wrote:

Dude, seriously…. stop… no one gives a f~~~ for you opinion

Ok thanks, I’ve pretty much gotten it out there anyway. Just wanted to add this to the manosphere melting pot. I honestly think its becoming an echo-chamber and a swirling pot of self-perpetuating misery. However, I could be wrong.

[Soul ManParticipant 1856]

Smitty the Great One wrote:

Truth… whom or whatever you may be. I’ve tried real hard to read your lengthy posts, and it makes sense only if you believe society can be saved at this point. As for me, I know better; Modern western civilization is toast. We have been thoroughly demoralized and our currencies debased. All that is left is the fall, so you go ahead and try and form a “Crusade” to save society, but I’m not going there with you. You spout some high moral sounding motives, good for you…. I’m still not going with you. Women NEED men to survive, well no s~~~ Sherlock, I’m STILL NOT GOING WITH YOU. I don’t give a flat f~~~, who needs what… WHY you ask? Because no one seems even the slightest bit interested in MY needs. So if you want to tilt at windmills, I give you leave, but you’ll bloody well do it without me. I’ve fought my last good fight, and I’ll live the rest of my days in peace doing as I please. You don’t like it, tough s~~~….

HAHA!  Right on Smitty!  I couldn’t agree more brother!

THE ROOF! THE ROOF! THE ROOF IS ON FIRE! WE DON’T GIVE A DAMN!  LET THE MOTHER F~~~ER BURN!

HISTORY...learn from it, memorize it, DON'T repeat it...

[CPT ObviousParticipant 2725]

Smitty the Great One wrote:

So if you want to tilt at windmills, I give you leave, but you’ll bloody well do it without me. I’ve fought my last good fight, and I’ll live the rest of my days in peace doing as I please. 

+1 For that one Smitty:  One of the reasons I love this site is gems like that.  You succinctly summed up what I have been feeling lately.

"You don't know a woman till you have met her in divorce court."

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