I Believe MGTOW to be wrong, or at least, misnamed

[TruthySpectator 2]

Hello,

First let me start off by saying I’m a man, not a woman. Indeed, I’m a MGTOW. However, I’ve recently come across
information in unrelated fields of research that causes me to conclude that MGTOW is merely treating the symptom
of the disease and not the cause. I recognize that most MGTOW are resigned to ‘let the system burn’, but the question
is what next for the survivors? I believe if we understand the cause of this issue then we will know how to fix it.

Its become increasingly clear to me and hopefully some of you that our society has been set-up for destruction. One
of the facets of doing so relies on destroying the bonds between men and women. MGTOW is wrong, imo, not because
they choose the wrong treatment, but because they misdiagnose the disease. Spend any time in the manosphere and
it becomes clear that mgtow is percieved to be a ‘new’ revelation, or at best a periodic one that accompanies
the fall of societies like the Romans. However, I find this to be an inherently *illogical* principle.

Becuase it would mean that, as smart as we are, our forefathers were considerably dumber to have been unable
to notice this metric of society: i.e. that women exploit men, that relationships are never a good deal, etc. etc.
If that were the case, then his is it that the majority of males didn’t realize this throughout history and
GTOW much earlier? It stands to reason that if its been universally true that women have always been this bad,
the lying, cheating, solipsism, hypergamy, etc. then our male forebearers, being intelligent like us (for if not
we wouldn’t be here no?) would’ve eventually figured this out and gone their own way. Indeed, I’ve seen it argued
that this is the reason for societal collapse in general.

But I want to submit to you another, more sinsister possibility. You see, the theories of evolution and geology
have biased public discourse to the point where every explanation seems to just require long timelines. Therefore
people are already predisposed to thing that everything works on geologic timescales. Of course there is some
controversy in those sciences about the truth of these assumptions, but that’s for later. The point is people
naturally assume that it takes a long time for truth to spread, but as we can see truth spreads like wild fire
internet or not. So it stands to reason that even over a long timescale, enough civilizations would’ve gone their
own way s.t. no civilizations survive.

When I brought this up over on Mgtowhq, I was ridiculed and banned. That’s fine. But I want to discuss this somewhere.
In my opinion it is not logical to conclude that men took this long to figure out women’s nature. Indeed, the
EXTREME jealousy of many males indicates that men were privy to this knowledge for quite some time in our development.
So if men had already realized the nature of women, why is it that we’re in this predicament?

*BECAUSE EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU KNOW IS A LIE*

There is an anime called “Attack on Titan”. I won’t bore you with the specifics, but 2000 years in the future, people
live in a giant walled in country. These are ‘supposedly’ the last people alive after the appearance of the ‘titans’,
giant humans who eat the small, regular ones. Anyway, the important bit is, the govt at the time tells people that
there is little historical record before the time of the walls. No maps, history books, knowledge of other cultures, nothing.
Indeed, no one seems to remember the walls going up, despite it only having been roughly 100 years since their creation.
In other words, the populace were kept docile and uninterested in the world outside the walls by having their information
on their origins and everything else hidden from them.

Ask yourself if such a thing could happen to you? Is it possible that you could be born into a system that you don’t
comprehend and didn’t agree to, that looks like one thing while being something else? Promising freedom and pleasure
while providing slavery and death by 1000 cuts? Does this sound familiar? Sorta like *marriage*? Well that’s because
it is familiar. That’s how this little game is being played. You don’t get healthcare you get sickcare. YOu don’t get
an education you get an indoctrination when you go to univeristy. In short, you don’t get what you’re promised here.

We’re in this predicament because, like the characters in that fictional show I described above, men and women are ignorant
of their history, and their need/relationship to one another. Consequently, EVERY MGTOW PHILOSOPHY IS WRONG. The Concept
of “The Wall(TM)” is WRONG, the concept of hypergamy is WRONG, the concept of female cheating is WRONG WRONG WRONG.
In my opinion, MGTOW is correctly describing a SYMPTOM to a disease that women are experiencing (and men) that is causing
them to *BE DELIBERATELY UNATTRACTIVE TO THE OPPOSITE SEX*.

The coincidental rise of the metrosexual, and the mgtow are not in fact coincidental. Nor is the rise of pornography or
the fleshlight. You guys should really research who funds all this stuff behind the scenes, you’d be surprised. First,
you’re all probably skeptical saying I’m bats~~~ about now. So let me prove it to you. You see the system you were born
into is one of manipulation, that much you are correct on. However, women are not the genysis of this system. Indeed, they
are pawns merely trying to get to the most important pieces on the map: YOU. Yes sir, just like you’ve been TRICKED into
chasing women (that’s female behavior, its your job to *respond* and chase back), just like you’ve been tricked to think
being a white-knight is attractive,  you’ve been tricked into not realizing the truth all along.

Men are the prize and not women. But I’m not talking about in male-female relationships. Its true their too. But here
I’m talking about to the orgs that did this to us. They did it because males have the power to change things. Oh and
let me dispell another MGTOW MYTH: There is *NO* such thing as an Alpha or beta male. Repeat after me ALL MALES ARE ALPHAS.
Yeah you didn’t know that did you? I know, I’m contradicting every MGTOW tenent here, but hear me out. There is no
such thing as a Beta male. That is a misnomer designed to hide the truth: male superiority.

You have to understand something: NONE of this will make sense with your current mind frame. Luckily, here too, I can help.
Put yourself in the shoes of someone who wants to control the world an enact not-so-population-friendly policies in a country.
What would you do? Would you blurt it out? Naw, that probably wouldn’t work on account of people not liking being murdered.
So, you study your subjects. Learn their weaknesses and their fears. What makes them tick. What their ‘pressure points’ are
to borrow an industry term. Now that you realize this, you have to realize that you can’t take over any country until
you take over the people, which you can’t do until you take over the men. Men almost always violently resist foreign
occupation. Look at Iraq, Afghanistan and any other war of conquest for reference.

In order to prevent this visceral reaction, you have to understand the weakness of men. Is this starting to click for you yet?
The weakness of men is clearly women. The weakness of women is lack of a man. So what do you do? If you hide the latter, you
can make the former come about. Because women are weak and know it, they fear being abandoned by men, in general. This you correctly
identify (somewhat). However, because men are in general self-sufficient, and read this next sentence carefully, THEY DO NOT
UNDERSTAND THE EXTENT OF THE FEAR THAT WOMEN FACE OF ABANDONMENT. Men can look at women’s behavior and it seems quite strange
to us. The attention-whoring, the catiness, the competition. That’s because men DON’T REALIZE WHAT WOMEN ARE COMPETING FOR:
TO not be abandoned by males!

When looked at in that light, you can see the desperation that causes women to seek a man. *CONVERSELY* you can intuit the consequence
of REMOVING THIS DESPERATION in women: women will no longer seek to seek or please a man. Why? Her native fear has been sated and
she can focus on her other driving goal which is reproduction. IS IT CLICKING YET? If not, this is getting long so I’ll skip to the
end: society was deliberately reengineered to make women become less and less attracted to males, and vice versa, while at the same
time making their attraction to the opposite sex dwindle. How many MGTOWs ‘swear-off’ women? A thought that would’ve been considered
INSANE by our forefathers is actively considered for a large number of men. WHY? Something changed and NO it wasn’t the internet, it
wasn’t information. It was our ‘society’.

You see, women naturally love men. We assuage their fears. But imagine something: imagine if every day at 7:30am, 12:00pm and 6:00pm
a *different*, young (18-21) woman came to your house. She didn’t say anything unless you did, bent over and without a word let’s
you blast inside her with the knowledge you’d never see her again. How many of you would go to church to look for a wife? How
many of you would resist the temptation to blast in a hot young stranger offering it up with a smile and a coo? NOT A DAMN ONE OF YOU
and you know it. There wouldn’t be any white-knights, nor would their be ‘alphas’ or ‘betas’, every man would just get laid and
that would be that. While that sounds like a male dream (it is because I just thought of that right now and its pretty sweet :’) ),
imagine the consequences for the *other half*. Because they’re taking all these blasts from strangers willingly, there is no
child-support and nothing resembling alimony.

In short, single mom hood with all the insecurity (remember, women’s greatest fear) and baggage that brings. IN other words,
women would have to sacrifice in order for men to live that dream. They’d have to sacrifice their desire for security, their
desire for companionship, and closeness and a stable source of resources, all so that men could have all the strings free sex
they want. Now imagine if men could TRICK women into behaving this way, not by convincing them with reason, but with lies.
Imagine what it would take to indoctrinate women to give up their self-interest in order to serve men their whole lives. Ironically,
women naturally want to do this in exchange for security and protection, sex being only ONE way that women repay us.

[HimeoParticipant 471]

TL;DR

Becuase it would mean that, as smart as we are, our forefathers were considerably dumber to have been unable to notice this metric of society: i.e. that women exploit men, that relationships are never a good deal, etc. etc. If that were the case, then his is it that the majority of males didn’t realize this throughout history and GTOW much earlier?

Evolution is all about survival baby. We’re living in the society that survived the longest. Treating men and women like s~~~ for the benefit of children is the best system for survival. That’s all it is.

How many of you would resist the temptation to blast in a hot young stranger offering it up with a smile and a coo? NOT A DAMN ONE OF YOU
and you know it.

Not that celibacy is a requirement of being MGTOW, but you are aware that this assertion is false, surely? Society would never have existed if men could not refrain from ravishing every pretty girl they meet. S~~~, inbreeding would have destroyed us if men were incapable of sexual restraint.

Please try harder.

[TruthySpectator 2]

Now reverse the genders and you have our current situation today. You get it? Marriage as it stands was *designed* to allow
women to cheat on their husbands. The modern relationship, schooling environs, ALL OF IT was set up to accomplish a single,
multi-generational goal. I realized this when an older mgtow posted about how during the 80’s they changed the law so that you
couldn’t see your spouses medical records. The reason they did this, so it goes, was because men who’d had vasectomies when they
would go with their wives to the doc would see that their wife was prescribed birth control. Now why would she need that? IS. IT.
STARTING TO CLICK YET???

They are ALL in on it, doctors, entertainers. Its not just male and female stuff but that’s a big part of it. A lot of money is
spent making women hate themselves and each other so they will be forever discontent and unhappy, which makes males unhappy and
prevents men from seeing any benefit from being with a woman. Read that sentence again. Read it one more time. That’s why you’re here.
You’re here because women and men have been manipulated to be disgusting to each other *without the knowledge of the other gender*.
Men seem women who sleep around as sluts, but don’t realize that women don’t view that negatively so they don’t know how badly
they’re f~~~ing up their chances at a LTR later. How’s a woman supposed to know that? They *LOVE* male sluts, so to them it stands
to reason that you would too.

Before you ridicule that, think back to how EASY IT WAS for you to believe the white-knight phenomena would get you laid! THAT
IS NOT A COINCIDENCE SIR!!! Its not coincidence that you think flowers and love-poems will moisten her panties. The beta male
is a COMPLETE FABRICATION. But, and to get back to this point, how/why? How? Television, movies with double meanings. Women and
men interpret things differently and look for different things. Because of this, its possible to give them two messages at the
same time without the other finding out about it.

For example, there’s a beautiful 80’s song, part of it goes like this:

Listen to your heart,
when he’s callin’ for you,
Listen to your heart,
there’s nothing else you can do,
I don’t know where you’re going,
and I don’t know why,
but listen to your heart,
before you tell him goodbye

And to me, as a man, this sounded like a song of conflicted lovers separated by family members and she should just choose love
over them, or something conflicting like that. But what do you think a woman would interpret from these lyrics? Perhaps,
“f~~~ the guy at the bar even though you’ve got a husband?” why? Isn’t that wrong? Well, not if she’s ‘listening to her heart’. You
see, things can mean VERY different things to women than they do to men. Thus behavior can be simultaneously entrained in individuals
producing replicatable results, i.e. stress, fights, disagreements and disharmony. Again BUT WHY? Well, aside from the aforementioned
population reasons, imagine a world WITHOUT stress, fights, disagreements and disharmony. What would you have? A world completely
unlike our current one. And I don’t mean in terms of the way people live though that would obviously change.

Rather, there would be no corporations nor kingdoms. There would be no businesses nor school-houses. Because there would be no need for
those things. No need for indoctrination when you’re not trying to hide physical reality from the populace. No need for any of that
when there is ONLY the populace and not another group of people trying to leech off the hard work of others. You have to realize that the
world produces twice the food we eat today, but throws away so much of it that there are starving people. Get it? This world is abundant.
There is no need for conflict bewtween either men and women or men and men. There is a NATURAL relationship between humans (I’m thinking
close to the harem model) that prevents conflict and ensures harmony, fidelity, trust and most burningly pleasureable of all, love.

I don’t mean the love you see today. I’m talking about instant boner for your wife of 20 years love. I’m talking about blowjobs and your
favorite meal just cuz its Tuesday. I’m talking about screwing till the kids wake up. I’m talking about that burning passion that you
feel deep inside your heart when you look into the eyes of the ONE/MULTIPLE woman/women that you love. You see, mgtow can easily forget
that for all that men do for women, WOMEN PAY US BACK 10 fold when they love us. Notice how easy it is to become a simpering ball of
pussy when you’re with a woman. That is because you have been trained to behave like a female. You don’t know it, but you’re constant
smiling, happy-go-lucky, straight-laced attitude is a HUGE TURN OFF to women. You see, but because someone didn’t want you to know that,
told you I’d prove it to you, you are not aware of this little fact. That’s why there are no beta men, there are only men.

A male is NATURALLY CURIOUS, naturally industrious, naturally able to master many fields and be useful in very many things. The reason
beta males exist is because if a man is told he is worthless he will believe you and behave and become worthless. But if he has a strong
will and believes in his worth and sovereignty, he will fight to protect it. He will use his talents to expand it and seek after what
he wants. This is in all males and it is this DRIVE that causes a man to be IRRESISTABLE to women. But as I said above, the current dating
market and scene is deliberately skewed in favor of women in order to one break up relationships by making women promiscuous and unmarriageable,
two make women look unattractive to men.

I made bold claims like the wall being wrong. The Wall is the official lie for why women are looking older and uglier younger and younger.
Its to hide all the poisons in our environment. You see women are more easily affected by radiation and toxins due to their more complicated
hormonal systems and smaller average size (increases dose per unit volume). Thus they are like the *canary in the coal mine*. Women have the
potential to maintain their beauty into their 60s and beyond. But again, the above-mentioned strategists don’t want you to know this. They
want you to think that all women turn to blobs. Or that they all gain weight. Nope. They gain weight because of the chemicals put in food
to deliberately mess with their hormones and fat storage. Again to make them sickly and unattractive. The Wall doesn’t exist. It only exists
for women who engage in the Darwin-Award behaviors of consuming alcohol (a known neurotoxin and liver-destroying poison), applying makeup
and eating the s~~~-for-food sold in the U.S. No there is no wall. Beautiful women naturally maintain their shape as they age. Go to Jamaica
and see some women who appear to be in their 20s and early 30s who are pushin’ 50 or higher. Clean food, clean water and fresh air do wonders.
But sure, they want you to think that all women are old by 25 so that you don’t have any incentive to want an older one. This makes them bitter
and hate the younger ones.

This causes them to be EVEN MORE unattractive. Its a lie that men are visual creatures and like young women more than older ones. What men like
are NICE WOMEN. A woman who doesn’t look like she’s going to bite your head off will win over one who doesn’t any age. But if the older one
looks like s~~~ then clearly the younger will win. But because women don’t understand this, they simplistically think that men only care about
youth, beauty and looks. Nothing could be further from the truth. You can see all manner of so-called ‘beta’ and even ‘alpha’ males with women
considerably uglier than them. Some attribute this to male-shaming and other things, which I admit will have a role. But I believe that that
is because as men get older, they realize they don’t like the bitchy hot-young tart, they like the nice one. But she’s rare because you don’t
have to be nice when you’re young and female. Because women don’t like niceness and equate it with weakness,  cuz they deal with other women all the time, they destroy any male who is ‘nice’. Think about it. A woman is only nice to you IF SHE KNOWS YOU ARE HER SUPERIOR. How many bosses
report multiple blowjobs from subordinate females?

Because that’s what women like, to be subordinated. To be over powered by a worthy male as it were. Well 80% of men are trained FROM BIRTH to
be office drones. Given ritalin, told to sit down, sit still, and shut up like a girl. No wonder you become feminized. Its only when you rediscover
your male essence that you become irresistable to women and can set the terms to which they happily agree.

 

***Sorry for the walls of text btw, I’ve been trying to get this off my chest for months.

[TruthySpectator 2]

 

Not that celibacy is a requirement of being MGTOW, but you are aware that this assertion is false, surely? Society would never have existed if men could not refrain from ravishing every pretty girl they meet. S~~~, inbreeding would have destroyed us if men were incapable of sexual restraint.

Please try harder.

That argument would make sense if men were the only part of the equation, but as I say later in my post, women have their OWN desires which prevent this ideal male situation from happening. Anyway, the hypothetical wasn’t meant to be taken seriously, though I disagree with the assertion that we wouldn’t exist if men couldn’t refrain; men cannot refrain even today. The only reason they do is because the risk of getting your penis actually chopped off grows by the day, but if that were not the case? If young, hot women were willing 24/7? 95% of all straight men would f~~~ like rabbits. Its called the coolidge-effect. I will not talk down to you, but I would request that your arguments be more well-thought out.

 

The reason it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously was because I wanted to illustrate that that is what happened but in reverse. Women have gotten the ideal situation at the expense of men. This has been deliberately engineered. And so is the destruction societal-wide is akin to if men had gotten

the situation I described above. Women have the bad-boy lover on the side and the ‘beta’ husband to pay for it. But in order to get that, beta men have to exist in the FIRST PLACE. BETA men aren’t natural. Therefore, women’s ideal situation described above COULDN’T naturally happen, as any male beta-enough to not get pussy wouldn’t reproduce and would die out long ago.

[AFTParticipant 2722]

Women are self interested, just as men are self interested.  However men seem to have an ability to act on the greater good, seeing that my interests are best served in an optimized society, whereas woman seem to be simply selfish, attention and self interest seeking to the point of neglecting the greater good.

Society and the prevailing social construct has made MGTOW, the best strategy, for any man, and I believe, only this movement will end the current social corruption, by bringing this civilization to an end, don’t get me wrong, there is an opportunity for developing this civilization into a better one, thus when I say end, I mean end to the current social doctrines, not necessarily all the people.

When men follow their own path, men are better off, society will adapt, and I believe a greater good will be achieved.

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[…Spectator 1165]

TheTruth: YO. LISTENUP! here. A very conservative estimate of the blowjobs I’ve gotten from willing females is more than 3000 at 100 a year times 30 years. Like a Boss, so f~~~ you. Saw you sign up a little while ago. Been expecting you. We’ll see what the other mgtow here have to say but you are already p~~~ing me way the f~~~ off with your “Mgtow is wrong wrong wrong s~~~.” You are clearly not a mgtow as no one here is judgmental on the members as far as telling them what is right or wrong for them individually. You are clearly talking out of your ass which I am now deciding whether I will kick or not. Proceed…we’ll see what the other guys say.

[TruthySpectator 2]

I agree that MGTOW destroys this current system and that this is good. But I want to dispell the notion that MGTOW is a good overall solution for men. Because I will tell you that men need women. Not in the way that women need men. Women *actually* need men, but even then they really don’t, they just think they do because their minds are optimized for a certain function. If necessary a woman could support and even defend herself in the wild. Oh and another myth. The female weakness, helpness myth. Now, feminism was certainly wrong in saying that men and women are equal in strength. Indeed men are physically superior to women in every contest except extreme long distance endurance events.

However, male physical superiority is often overhyped in order to 1) make male egos expand 2) allow women to play weak. If you read the slave narrative from Thomas Equiano, he makes it clear in Africa before he became a slave, that the women were very useful. They fought in wars, planted crops and some times came hunting with the men. They would have a child in the field and be back to work within minutes. This he compared to ‘the slightness’ of Englishwomen. Not only were they small, they were weak and fragile.

This is not the natural state of women. But our society causes women to become very lazy and to think that men should do things for her. You see, by reversing the gender roles in the minds of the common man, women think they are entitled to what they THINK men are entitled to. Arbitrary power, ability to not care (because every woman who is callous was hurt by a man she thought didn’t care), etc. ALL masculine traits.

Another thing about people you have to understand. ‘Male’ and ‘Female’ are universal principles being displayed in our species. They are not actually who we are i.e. humans exist on a spectrum of masculinity and feminity individually. And each individual can at any time of their choosing, mentally slide over the scale, even going to the other side. So men can ‘experience’ what its like to be female and vice versa, its like running a VM on windows. Its not perfect, but by doing this you begin to understand how we got here.

Both genders are going off of misleading information deliberately planted in our heads to make us think the wrong thing and behave in ways to doom us from having relationships with one another. Because the big secret they don’t want you to know is that LOVE is what makes both genders happy.
NOTHING ELSE. (Unless you’re one of the rare loner/asexual/aromantic types).

[HimeoParticipant 471]

Truthy wrote:

That argument would make sense if men were the only part of the equation, but as I say later in my post, women have their OWN desires which prevent this ideal male situation from happening. Anyway, the hypothetical wasn’t meant to be taken seriously, though I disagree with the assertion that we wouldn’t exist if men couldn’t refrain; men cannot refrain even today.

Please explain how any city larger than two humans is possible if this is true?
Please explain why the men in New York aren’t constantly raping every woman they see on the street?

This is self-evidently false.

[TruthySpectator 2]

TheTruth: YO. LISTENUP! here. A very conservative estimate of the blowjobs I’ve gotten from willing females is more than 3000 at 100 a year times 30 years. Like a Boss, so f~~~ you. Saw you sign up a little while ago. Been expecting you. We’ll see what the other mgtow here have to say but you are already p~~~ing me way the f~~~ off with your “Mgtow is wrong wrong wrong s~~~.” You are clearly not a mgtow as no one here is judgmental on the members as far as telling them what is right or wrong for them individually. You are clearly talking out of your ass which I am now deciding whether I will kick or not. Proceed…we’ll see what the other guys say.

Hey, I’m sorry we seem to have gotten on the wrong foot. I don’t understand your comment about blowjobs. The only thing I can find in my post that you might be referencing is

 A woman is only nice to you IF SHE KNOWS YOU ARE HER SUPERIOR. How many bosses
report multiple blowjobs from subordinate females?

But that question was meant to show that guys like you get A LOT of blowjobs, not to suggest that you somehow don’t get any…Can you clarify that first sentence/what you’re replying to? I’m saying you’re wrong a lot for a specific reason. As you can see if you read the post, I’m clearly saying that by going mgtow you’re doing yourself a huge favor, but my point is we have reached the right conclusion for the wrong reasons. Can we discuss whether or not this is possible? I was banned at mgtowhq for bringing up this very possibility, and I don’t want that to happen here, I just want to see if I’m close to the truth or not.

[TruthySpectator 2]

Please explain how any city larger than two humans is possible if this is true?
Please explain why the men in New York aren’t constantly raping every woman they see on the street?

This is self-evidently false.

It is only self-evidently false if you ignore the other half of the equation, like your questions do. Men aren’t constantly raping NOT BECAUSE THEY DON’T CONSTANTLY WANT TO F~~~, but because men find rape to be distasteful and generally WANT women to agree. There is no fun in the chase if she doesn’t play along. Your post sounds like you assume the feminist propaganda about all men being ‘rapists’ to be true WHEN THAT is what is clearly false. You are equating lust/horniness with willingness to act.

Most men DO NOT WANT pussy they have to take. Which is why sandman and Justice Dept figures conclusively show there IS NO RAPE CULTURE. There’s a rape LYING CULTURE. But we know that men are horn-dogs always willing to have sex at the drop of the hat. This is even a common trope in the manosphere, again and it is referred to as the Coolidge effect. So it stands to reason that the simple answer to your question, is that you mistakenly conflate sexual desire with probability of rape. You started with a false premise, yet you are surprised you reached a false conclusion.

Drop your *hostile* guard, I am not the enemy.

[AFTParticipant 2722]

Truthy wrote:

I’m saying you’re wrong a lot for a specific reason. As you can see if you read the post, I’m clearly saying that by going mgtow you’re doing yourself a huge favor, but my point is we have reached the right conclusion for the wrong reasons. Can we discuss whether or not this is possible? I was banned at mgtowhq for bringing up this very possibility, and I don’t want that to happen here, I just want to see if I’m close to the truth or not.

Sounds like a woman to me, gave her the benefit of the doubt too long, sorry guys.

No points, just argumentative for no reason, the truth is you’re a woman, just stirring up s~~~.

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[RennieParticipant]

Truthy wrote:

I was banned at mgtowhq for bringing up this very possibility

No, you were banned because that’s what they do over there.  Those are the same people who tore mgtowforums.com apart, apparently they didn’t learn anything.

[…Spectator 1165]

TheTruth: your very name claims that you know everything, so please enlighten all of us further and respond to Himeo and the other men here.

In the past 48 hours, we have provided more than 10 grand of free legal advice to men getting nuked in courtrooms. Not one of those guys probably gives a f~~~ as to whether their reasoning was “right” “correct” or good for society at large. F~~~ society at large. I suggest you move your posting over to Philosophy where guys thinking they know everything can go at it for hours and hours about “reasons.” The title of your post says “I believe MGTOW to be wrong” which is an insult. I’m giving you another 30 minutes…….

[TruthySpectator 2]

AFT wrote:

Women are self interested, just as men are self interested. However men seem to have an ability to act on the greater good, seeing that my interests are best served in an optimized society, whereas woman seem to be simply selfish, attention and self interest seeking to the point of neglecting the greater good. Society and the prevailing social construct has made MGTOW, the best strategy, for any man, and I believe, only this movement will end the current social corruption, by bringing this civilization to an end, don’t get me wrong, there is an opportunity for developing this civilization into a better one, thus when I say end, I mean end to the current social doctrines, not necessarily all the people. When men follow their own path, men are better off, society will adapt, and I believe a greater good will be achieved.

 

I appreciate your response. It appears you read and understood my argument., but you conclude differently than I do that things will balance out.
But if my argument is true, then we have an enemy who is NOT women. In other words, it WON’T work itself out. You get it? My point is that women were merely PAWNS this whole time, getting swept up by an ideology that was definitely false ‘feminism’ that was part of a long-term agenda of general population enslavement.

In other words, *MGTOW only works IF WOMEN ARE THE ENEMY*. If women are not the enemy, but are only being used due to their lack of foresight, then by going ‘mgtow’ and leaving women behind, you are in fact playing into the hands of the TRUE enemy. Remember, they planned feminism and it worked because they knew which buttons to push to get women mad at men, and use them to enact draconian legislation. Don’t you think they planned for you? *WHAT IF MGTOW IS THE PLAN FOR YOU*?? What if this ‘group’, this ‘movement’ that suddenly sprung up out of nowhere, didn’t just spring out of nowhere? What if Feminism and MGTOW are just two sides to the same old coin they’ve been flippin’ all along?
What if the true answer is the choose “NEITHER!” and take women and the family with you and go your own way from this society?

Perhaps its not that we don’t need women in our lives, but that our lives need to be returned to the freedom we used to have? You know, before you were forced to work for someone else to feed yourself? I get it that focusing on women makes the most sense because they are the arrowhead. But shouldn’t we be focusing on the archer?

[TruthySpectator 2]

… wrote:

TheTruth: your very name claims that you know everything, so please enlighten all of us further and respond to Himeo and the other men here. In the past 48 hours, we have provided more than 10 grand of free legal advice to men getting nuked in courtrooms. Not one of those guys probably gives a f~~~ as to whether their reasoning was “right” “correct” or good for society at large. F~~~ society at large. I suggest you move your posting over to Philosophy where guys thinking they know everything can go at it for hours and hours about “reasons.” The title of your post says “I believe MGTOW to be wrong” which is an insult. I’m giving you another 30 minutes…….

 

First off, I am not a woman and have no problem proving I am male. Secondly, I will post shorter posts now that the general idea is out there. I’m sorry that my title offended you or caused you to think I’m talking down at you etc. I really only made it that way to get your attention because I believe that if I am correct, we need to move quickly or we’ve lost. The advice you’ve given to those men is admirable and I’m delighted to hear someone is doing something. I am not saying you are wrong for this. I’m not saying you’re wrong for going your own way. I’m just saying that perhaps the conclusions we as MGTOW have drawn about women, have been based on our natural misunderstanding of them?

In other words, I’m saying that because men and women cannot switch genders, neither gender truly understands the motivations, desires, and fears of the other. Because of this, I believe that we are easy to trick, just like you would be easy to trick regarding the contents of a very dark cave, while the mouth of the cave and all around it is evident to all. And so, while I applaud the efforts of men like you and this forum, and mgtowhq (I’m not butthurt about the ban, I just want to discuss something I’ve been thinking about for months now), I think that ultimately we are playing catch up. We need to be one step ahead if we want to PREVENT men from going thru the grinder.

TL;DR The consensus till now has been that mgtow is the way to prevent men from going thru the grinder. I’m saying its not enough to prevent it, we have to GET RID OF THE ENTIRE KITCHEN. Get it guys? I’m saying MGTOW doesn’t go deep enough into the rabbit-hole. Its like if you were married and asked your wife about alimony. She would probably sugar coat it and make it seem like she’s never heard of it, or would never do it etc.And you would hum along like a good blue-pill. Until you got ram-rodded up the ass with a summons. Then you’d need the help of such fine gentlemen as yourselves. I’m saying that just ‘going your own way’, is like remaining blue-pill after your wife deflects your questions. Its like playing catch-up, and as all divorced guys no you can NEVER catch her in divorce court, even if you start first!

[AFTParticipant 2722]

Truthy wrote:

My point is that women were merely PAWNS this whole time, getting swept up by an ideology that was definitely false ‘feminism’ that was part of a long-term agenda of general population enslavement.

Women  L E T  themselves get played, I won’t.

Truthy wrote:

In other words, *MGTOW only works IF WOMEN ARE THE ENEMY*. If women are not the enemy, but are only being used due to their lack of foresight, then by going ‘mgtow’ and leaving women behind, you are in fact playing into the hands of the TRUE enemy.  

No MGTOW works to fight the social corruption as it stands now.</div>

Truthy wrote:

Remember, they planned feminism and it worked because they knew which buttons to push to get women mad at men, and use them to enact draconian legislation. Don’t you think they planned for you?

Exactly, they need men to participate, to enslave us all, by not participating MGTOW is f~~~ing up their plans.

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[Anonymous 11]

@thetruth:

Assuming you’re not a troll, and I will grant you some of your points. However:

“Becuase it would mean that, as smart as we are, our forefathers were considerably dumber to have been unable
to notice this metric of society”

Don’t assume that we can use an iPhone that we are more intelligent than our forefathers were. They knew how to keep women in check, and I will admit it’s a never ending battle. Of course, their women were not as f~~~ed up as ours. Situations where women become extremely promiscuous and allowed to destroy things are indicative of society in decay.

“However, male physical superiority is often overhyped ”

Dude, I’ve never met a woman that is physically superior to me as you admit plus I have incredible long distance stamina and am legendary in my athletic endeavor of choice for it. I will admit they are more cunning than I in the art of manipulation. I am more cunning then they are in the arts of strategy and improvisation.

“So men can ‘experience’ what its like to be female and vice versa”

-Not possible in either direction.

Actually, until the advent of modern feminism men and women played complementary roles where one’s weaknesses were covered by the other’s strengths. Modern feminism has inverted this dynamic. Girl power is bulls~~~ just as the shibboleth that every man is an evil incompetent pig is crap.

I’m not sure of your age but I am detecting that you may have hidden femprop residue influencing your thought processes on these matters.

MGTOW is calling women out for what that have become which are raging deluded narcissism machines. MGTOW is holding them accountable for the damages they have caused to good men, themselves, and many children. MGTOW is saying hell no to playing a rigged game.

[…Spectator 1165]

Jesus f~~~ing christ. You are a new member here instructing us we need to be ahead of the curve? F~~~. It is you licking your wounds for having another forum ban you while you prepared a giant s~~~ paste to drop here as TheTruth. Bunch of bulls~~~.

Ok, AFT and I both think this is a girl. older smart one than most, but still female. Any other opinions? Let’s here it guys.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Interesting.  I have made similiar, not the same, but similiar observations over the past several months.  I don’t view you as an enemy.  Alot of guys here will hate you however.  You have “haters” whereever you go though.  Its not just MGTOW.

Part of MGTOW is having their own opinions as long as they can respectfully argue and/or give evidence for them.

MGTOW is fundamentally reactionary in many respects, however it is an increasing movement.

And as an actual philosophy it can be contradictory at times, however I have pointed that out on seperate threads and seperate instances.

The reason I am here are because there are alot of valuable points and discussion on societal subjects.  The conversations and debates are good.

But is everyone correct?  No.

You have my welcome.

 

[HimeoParticipant 471]

Truthy wrote:

I’m just saying that perhaps the conclusions we as MGTOW have drawn about women, have been based on our natural misunderstanding of them?

Empathy is imperfect. We cannot truly understand the motivations of other people.

Evidence based reasoning has proven to be a very effective method to determine truth. Evidence shows more than 50% of marriages end in divorce. Of those divorces, %70 are filed by women. Men have their lives ruined at the whims of women.

We cannot understand these whims, you’re correct. Avoiding them is a logical but selfish conclusion based on the available evidence.

Truthy wrote:

We need to be one step ahead if we want to PREVENT men from going thru the grinder.

Who said that was the goal of MGTOW? That’s the goal of the MRA’s. MGTOW is self-preservation. This isn’t a religion out trying to convert new members. MGTOW is the natural result of cost-benefit analysis of modern relations~~~s.

I’d enjoy digging more into this argument but you’ve already conceded the point that caught my attention earlier and I’m at work right now.

Truthy wrote:

Drop your *hostile* guard, I am not the enemy.

If you feel that disagreeing with you is hostile or offensive, I’m sorry m’lady. You can go f~~~ yourself.

[Author]

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