Destiny vs Free Will

[RoyDalParticipant]

Free will? Analysis of worm neurons suggest how a single stimulus can trigger different responses

Summary:
Even worms have free will. If offered a delicious smell, for example, a roundworm will usually stop its wandering to investigate the source, but sometimes it won’t. Just as with humans, the same stimulus does not always provoke the same response, even from the same individual.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150313110402.htm

Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?

[darkoverParticipant 14]

I’ve a strange mind that is in a permanent state of de ja vu so my subjective experience is that every little thing down to the atoms is predestined. As every day that happens, I remember it as already happening. I know that this is often due to either having an unusual brain or damage due to chronic lack of sleep. But regardless, things definitely seem predestined to me.

That said, I think regardless of whether or not it’s destiny or free will, it matters more when you choose to think it is. Something like the serenity prayer thing. I’m not christian, so I don’t recall it word for word. But if you can change it, use your free will. If you cannot, then accept it as destiny. And it is wisdom and your own judgment to know when you can or cannot change the circumstances.

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

John Doe you wrote: I don’t think Destiny goes against Free will, I think they both compliment each other in different respects.   One could ask the question, why does destiny have to go against free will?  They are both  different things.

Just finished  a short story I was writing about a native American who was in prison. The last words were:  “He was destined to be free.”

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[Terminal MemeParticipant 57]

“Of course we have free will, the boss insists on it.” -Christopher Hitchens       <–hopefully you ‘get’ the joke

“A puppet is free as long as he loves his strings.” -Sam Harris

Freewill is an illusion and it matters because we no longer have to give attention to useless emotions like shame, pride and hate. Below is objective proof as well as a subjective proof.

Objectively, we know we live in a universe dictated in total, by cause and effect. All matter and energy (including all humans), since the big bang to the present, is one seemingly endless domino drop. There is no escape. Prior events solely direct all possible future outcomes. And in instances that seem random or where we are currently unable to predict a cause, as in quantum physics, we see that the randomness is yet another variable beyond our control, an integral part of the chain itself. This objective view of a Deterministic universe is not compatible with the idea of freewill, period.  It’s not one immutable law for billions of galaxies and a physical pardon for humans. Hypothetically, we could determine or predict, with perfect accuracy, what will happen to anything or anyone. Obviously, the sheer number of variables and their combined effect is beyond comprehension and computation but it’s not impossible. It’s certainly possible but beyond reach.

Subjectively, freewill is unobtainable as well. Though we feel that we author our thoughts and actions, this is an illusion and it’s been verified in the lab many times and in many ways. Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI) and tests done during brain surgery show us that a persons feeling that they have decided, comes several seconds after, the brain has already made the decision. Thoughts, desires and emotions simply arise into consciousness uninvited. “You have no more control over the next thing you think, than the next thing I say. Where is the freewill in that? -Sam Harris. We’re entirely subject to previous events that we had no control over and that we didn’t choose. From height, heredity, birthplace and penis size to breakfast, clothes, condo and philosophy, we choose none of it. Your feeling that you do choose is a failure to pay attention to what it’s like to be you. We are not able to think of or do anything that doesn’t occur to us to do. What does occur to us to do, comes from places we’ve never chosen and can’t control. We don’t think our thoughts before we think them.

Sam Harris uses this subjective demonstration to illustrate our lack of freewill.

Choose a city, any city.       Got one?       Okay

Since we’re searching for freewill, this is probably the easiest way to find it. You just choose a city name of your choice. Let’s narrow down our search. First, let’s just eliminate every city that you’ve never heard of. Obviously you’re not free to choose a city you’ve never heard of. That dramatically narrows the list down. Next, we have to admit that when asked to choose, we immediately began to witness names popping into our head. Perhaps Toronto, Dallas, Moscow and London popped into your head. Where did they come from? They just occurred to you, you didn’t choose them. Surely you’ve heard of Phoenix and Berlin but those two just didn’t come to mind. You weren’t free to choose them. Furthermore, when you ultimately “decide” on which of those few that did come to mind, your brain will decide up to 5 seconds what you will choose before you think you’ve chosen it. We just don’t harbor the control we presume to have.

In no way should this news be taken grimly or as a downer. It still matters what we do. We should still strive to better ourselves and to seek positive experiences. We just can’t lie to ourselves about our role in the experience. We will still lock up murderers, though now we don’t say they deserve punishment as it is obvious they are victims to their heredity, life experiences etc. We still have to protect the well-being of others, we just subtract the hate since we can see that people can’t do anything other than what they do according to the provisions culture, genetics and “fate” (for lack of a better word) has afforded them. We also no longer have to be ashamed of our failures or features, they are uncontrollable, we aren’t responsible for them though we are accountable. We can also divorce pride.

[Lazarus LongParticipant 365]

Terminal, so if everything is decided for us there is no point in even telling us this since the results are predestined. Since everything is predestined there is no need to despise the actions of women or femenists because there actions were predestined and no person can make any personal action to change what will happen because of it. According to this view none of us are actually MGTOW since there is no way to go but the way we were predestined to go.

I suppose it is comforting to believe that you have no control over your life, since your failures are not your own, but if that is truly how you feel then there is no way you can be a real MGHOW as your views are completely antithetical to MGTOW philosophy.

Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self. -Terry Goodkind

[John DoeParticipant 743]

harpo-my-“SON” wrote:

Just finished a short story I was writing about a native American who was in prison. The last words were: “He was destined to be free.”

Destiny is a result of a path.  One can choose a path, but destiny is where that path leads.  And yes, for some, it leads to freedom.

Lazarus Long wrote:

Terminal, so if everything is decided for us there is no point in even telling us this since the results are predestined. Since everything is predestined there is no need to despise the actions of women or femenists because there actions were predestined and no person can make any personal action to change what will happen because of it. According to this view none of us are actually MGTOW since there is no way to go but the way we were predestined to go. I suppose it is comforting to believe that you have no control over your life, since your failures are not your own, but if that is truly how you feel then there is no way you can be a real MGHOW as your views are completely antithetical to MGTOW philosophy.

I admire your simplicity.  I would have argued a bunch of different points leading to the same conclusion, but you just put this into a nice little package.  +1

On a side note, I have come up with a nickname for terminal that should make everyone happy:  Rainman.

It will make terminal happy because Rainman was a savant and terminal likes to brag about his memory and all the books he read.

It will make us happy because Rainman, was borderline retarded in all other mental functions.  He couldn’t even tie his own shoes, like terminal cannot apply critical thinking.  It will help us not to get angry but rather be patient.

It is a win/win for everyone.

[Lazarus LongParticipant 365]

Thanks John Doe!

Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self. -Terry Goodkind

[Terminal MemeParticipant 57]

Lazarus:      I can see your concerns and would like alleviate them for all.

Our automation should not be seen as a death sentence so to speak, after all, the aspirations you’ve acted upon thus far in life have had their merit in forming your character though you previously were unaware of not being the driver of your body. And we shouldn’t confuse Fatalism and Predestination with the true state of the human condition. Determinism itself is a nearly misleading term as it implies that things are already determined. In reality, predicting or determining the future is an unreachable goal, though we live in a causal universe. We just can’t see, and have no hope of accurately measuring, what will occur in the future. We are blind neuronal weather patterns (grim I know). But I think you’ve fallen for the seemingly grim nature of this revelation too. I also was frightened at this news but intuitively knew it was true. Read Sam Harris’ Freewill.

If it truly doesn’t matter, then why try? Why even get out of bed? But follow the reasoning. If you tried to stay in bed, not only would you feel an unquenchable desire to get up and do something, but doing nothing is itself a ‘choice’ you had no control to make. If we really believed that positive change wasn’t possible in the world, no one would try. I have to point out though, that words like “try” or “discipline” are subtle clues of freewill’s absence. In a freewill universe, those words would make no sense. Neither would phrases like “I just couldn’t help myself.”

Now about Men Going Their Own Way as a philosophy. I’m not losing a step by admitting my automation, after all it’s proven fact. Everything I experience is still new to me though. I see the words I write and am excited and relieved to do it but I can see the illusion. Language itself and often, the ideas we express are memes we pick up and spread around. The MGTOW meme is a great example of one that is growing stronger. Men weigh it against other ideas and criticism, and after learning more, they adopt the status; not through their own freewill, but because of the circumstances and past experiences that align with MGTOW grievances (their own grievances). It can’t be argued that MGTOW isn’t a form of protest meant to ignite societal change. It rallies newcomers and has a website so in fact we are on a small level not going our own way but partially going the groups way. Deep down we don’t like the way sociology and law have progressed to misrepresent men. We don’t like misandric memes. Our decision to “go our own way” is not a declaration of freewill. It’s a declaration that we’ve had enough and now identify as MGTOW. A reaction to our present situation sociologically.

Women are also victim to their own automation. No one can blame a teenage girl today who has no say in being indoctrinated into feminist memes. This is why feminism is such a problem, through no fault of their own, young women are baptized into it. There is opportunity for desirable change though in our personal lives as well as in society. Saying it doesn’t matter because we’re unavoidably directed by heredity, memetics and neurology doesn’t make the opportunity to change any less important. We are still striving for the well-being of the human race and ourselves, what else could we do? Progress takes time. Precisely because we don’t have freewill, we have to unlearn bad habits and clean up the mess from old ways that needed amendment.

We are building human sociology at the same time that nature is building us. Similarly, to the fact that our 4 billion year old Sun has ceaselessly bombarded us with energy in the form of sunlight, consequently fueling more and more complexity on Earth, we are built and directed. The complexity has stacked and now a species is partially self aware. But make no vain presumption that we can direct our future, it directs us. This truth is indifferent to your emotional reaction to it. It’s ultimately just another stepping stone to better understanding ourselves and furthering our ability to evade suffering.

[Terminal MemeParticipant 57]

John Doe: You say, “One can choose a path, but destiny is where that path leads.” 

How is this not a contradiction of logic with absolutely no credibility? You have to be f~~~ing kidding me dude. Does anyone else actually believe the junk you post? Just like the other thread about whether being a Christian and a MGTOW is possible, you’ve volunteered your 5th grade understanding of the world and the human condition. You’ve have been shown to be out of your league. I don’t doubt your MGTOW conviction and seek a friendship of sorts with you, but give credit where it’s due. I’ve nailed the s~~~ out of both of theses topics.

I’m sorry kid but your ideas and convictions about God and Freewill are expired, destroyed by reason, annihilated by facts! It’s been this way for decades though you make no use of published non-fiction or scientific journals. Instead you aimlessly blog your opinions on subjects well out of your intellectual capacity or current understanding. You also mock book reading which isn’t amusing in the least.

I think I’ve previously created a nick name for you too. A nobody, undeserving of quote. I hope you realize the playfulness of our exchanges and take it in good sport, however, if you’d care to do the back ground reading or some homework on the topics you desire to post about, then maybe you’d see your current views are spoiled milk. Keep fighting the good fight for men but leave the philosophy for people who have a gift for it. You’re still amateur in that respect because you haven’t read s~~~ and even mock the idea.

[Anonymous 42]

I arrived at today (yesterday’s destiny). I seek a path by “faith” to arrive at tomorrow (tomorrows destiny) I think that’s what JD was trying to say “One can choose a path, but destiny is where that path leads.”

@ Terminal Mime, you “proved nothing” to me on either thread; I’ll side with JD’s 5th grade philosophy rather than your Know-it-all-about-everything-under-the-sun mentality.

@Varof  explaining away the universe as a bunch of pool b~~~~ and pools ticks is a 5th grade explanation.

I’ve had “detailed” premonitions into the future from time to time throughout my life, starting with a bicycle accident when I was just a kid, including the airliner that lost an engine at O hare intl in the 70s, as real as life it’s self, terrifying and spot on accurate! That’s destiny seen from the day before, be careful about your opinions, they could close your mind forever…..

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Terminal Meme wrote:

How is this not a contradiction of logic with absolutely no credibility?

It is quite simple.  These “concepts” can work together instead of apart.  Take for example the “which came first the chicken or the egg” argument.   A chicken with an egg inside of it would be the correct answer.  Similar concept.

On a separate note, weren’t you the one that said one can logically prove a negative?   Was that you are someone else I read?

Terminal Meme wrote:

You’ve have been shown to be out of your league.

You are right. I am out of my league when dealing with you.  A fifth grader is way above you.  You are kind of making me feel guilty about
looking down at you now.  After all, according to you, you have no choice as to who you are.  It is not your fault, you are
just a powerless victim of the universe.  Maybe I have been to much of a bully.  If I have, let me be the first to apologize.

But I can’t not address it if I chose to take your advice:

Terminal Meme wrote:

leave the philosophy for people who have a gift for it.

I would be letting your humble wish down if I didn’t point out your philosophy is the product of an inefficient and flawed
universe.  After all, according to you, “I” am not proving you wrong.  The “universe” is.  I am applying your own
standard of truth to itself.

Terminal Meme wrote:

You also mock book reading which isn’t amusing in the least.

Oh no, you are missunderstanding another thing.  I am not mocking book reading. I am just saying you are wrong, and then
I explain why. But if you had any critical thinking skills you would have understood that.

Go on tell me and everyone else how dumb we are, then go
and avoid our criticisms.  Oh wait, let me guess how you are going to respond…hold let me guess…you are going
to say something like: “John Doe is am ignorant and dumb, and so is everyone who agrees with him”.

You seem to be an expert in stupidity and ignorance, maybe you can justify your “knowledge” with a book on that.  After
all, half your posts talk about “stupidity”, “ignorance”, and “illusions.”  These seem like topics you are well versed
in and studied thoroughly.

Tell me another story Rainman, about how smart you are.  Go on.  Avoid the criticism with ad hominem attacks.
Better yet, quote a book for us to read.  Then avoid giving an explanation, because you yourself have a tough time
understanding it. You cannot even convey what you read to others, that is how little of an understanding you have.

Oh wait a second, maybe I should pull up an author to prove my point.  After all originality is wrong.  I have to
listen to someone who is published.  If they are published, the must be right. How could be so stupid?  I must be wrong
because I am not published.  Apparently seeking approval from publishers is the sole medium for truth. Where is your
publishing Rainman?  Follow your own standards.  Don’t be a hypocrite.

Terminal Meme wrote:

You’re still amateur in that respect because you haven’t read s~~~ and even mock the idea.

If defining amateur vs. profession is dependent on how much “s~~~” one has read, then according to your standards,
everyone on this thread is now considered a professional because of the “s~~~” you gave us.

 

 

[Terminal MemeParticipant 57]

Well, I don’t even have to waste my time reading anything here. The facts were laid out and the ignorant couldn’t accept them, so there you have it. Ignorance at full gallop. People mocking cause and effect! Pretending that the laws of physics can be bent by sheer human wish thinking! LOL     Other people here, too hopelessly illiterate to understand the simplest of concepts; too brain baked to even conduct a simple thought experiment, or to attempt meditation long enough to see that we no more harbor freewill than a planet chooses to orbit a star. A typical clusterf~~~ of retardation ravaged with counterfeit emotional bonds.

Reasonable people who do know their s~~~, came in here and tried to show you something. You shut ’em down and clung to faith and lunacy. 

I just hope in the future, when more and more men stumble in here. They will rightfully call out the poser MGTOW and their petty prosthetic faith, their pathetic pseudo beliefs. It’s going to be a slaughter house. The intelligent people who have facts, humiliating you vain fanciers of freewill and suckers for a god that doesn’t exist.

Until then….

[KeymasterKeymaster]

I know better than to be suckered into a religious debate, but doesn’t it depend on what “God” means to you?

For example, We’re all born with an inherent sense of right and wrong. There’s a video on the homepage (news ticker) of dogs protecting a child while the mother was trying to bash her kid with a shoe. They weren’t trained to do that. It’s something we’re born with an animals have it too. It’s undeniable. There are so many “laws of nature”… right and wrong…. absolute truths…. 1+1 = 2… and these laws of nature exist, they are logical, explainable, and make sense.

For Christ’s sake we see a man’s paradise ruined in divorce courts on a daily basis. The expulsion from paradise is the bible’s first story and a man got kicked out of his own backyard because he f~~~ing listened to a woman. That’s the truest story ever told! Now I’m not clutching a bible and praying to some white haired man in the sky, and the book by my bed will never be “Christian Thoughts Vol. II”, but you know the bible was written for a f~~~ing reason. Right and wrong (laws of nature) is a real thing. You can’t touch it but it’s something bigger than ALL of us.

Turning the Nile in to blood and water into wine is bulls~~~ of course… but it’s metaphor for something else.

MGTOW is a lifestyle choice.

You can absolutely have a bible by your bed and be GYOW. Maybe it gives a man guidance. Maybe he interprets something from it that assists him in his every day life. Maybe he is going through a similar struggle as Noah…. and he’s forced to deal with this UNIMAGINABLE task and responsibility. So he reads the good book and finds some value in it.

To some degree… everybody needs a little faith — in SOMETHING.

My father told me to never discuss politics or religion with anyone. Million dollar advice. I just don’t want to see men (or MGTOW) throwing flaming arrows at each other over a f~~~ing belief system. But if you think you’ll arrive at some kind of mutual understanding with each other, then please spar on! Just know that nobody ever agrees on this s~~~.

Stepping out, gents. Have a pleasant afternoon.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

Its obvious to me Terminal Meme hates faith based religion and those with beliefs other than his own..his anger is apparent and he openly states if he had his way no christian could be a mgtow…

If MGTOW men are declaring themselves sovereign, bowing to no one, taking orders from no one………how again is that compatible with Christianity, whose primary requirement is for you to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, follow “his” way? I guess being a slave and prisoner to an imaginary figure doesn’t count? But the Holy Trinity is real to Crustians isn’t it? Most ass backwards men I’ve seen. Any excuse to retain a delusion. HarpoMason, you dont have to come out and say what exactly your religion is, its plain in your post with your Masonic bulls~~~ cult affiliation and communion loving defense of faith. “higher power” “divine intervention” You’re worse than Pascal in Pastels and John Doe combined when it comes to dogmatic slavery.

You guys can all carry on believing this f~~~ing bulls~~~, claiming to MGTOW, sucking the churches dick, endorsing tolerance of faith like liberal lesbians and Obama lovers. Whatever. You 3 Jesus freaks don’t speak for the majority of MGTOW and are on your own little fantasy island where. I won’t be caring as I go my way, but I will be laughing at you with other real MGTOW. We’ll be laughing at your expense because you’re just like the simp blue pillers who are married yet claim to be MGTOW.

You’re all just like the guys who still spend countless hours playing games with women, campaigning for pussy except, instead of pussy, you campaign for excuses and justifications to remain IMPRISONED to a bronze age, anthropomorphic myth. PATHETIC!

F~~~ your beliefs and vain faith. If I could I’d revoke your MGTOW cards and cut them up with scissors. I’d excommunicate you for being posers. Good bye suckers. 

I’ve read several different people while being on MGTOW.com  and it’s becoming more and more obvious that this place is full of Christians. Unsurprising considering politics. As usual, I’m done when I find out either a place is full of misandric whores in love with feminism, or its filled profusely with equally deluded monotheists. Both of the groups are ridiculous, uneducated, indoctrinated and undesirable for an intellectual male. 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

If MGTOW men are declaring themselves sovereign, bowing to no one, taking orders from no one………how again is that compatible with Christianity, whose primary requirement is for you to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, follow “his” way? I guess being a slave and prisoner to an imaginary figure doesn’t count? But the Holy Trinity is real to Crustians isn’t it? Most ass backwards men I’ve seen. Any excuse to retain a delusion. HarpoMason, you dont have to come out and say what exactly your religion is, its plain in your post with your Masonic bulls~~~ cult affiliation and communion loving defense of faith. “higher power” “divine intervention” You’re worse than Pascal in Pastels and John Doe combined when it comes to dogmatic slavery.

You guys can all carry on believing this f~~~ing bulls~~~, claiming to MGTOW, sucking the churches dick, endorsing tolerance of faith like liberal lesbians and Obama lovers. Whatever. You 3 Jesus freaks don’t speak for the majority of MGTOW and are on your own little fantasy island where. I won’t be caring as I go my way, but I will be laughing at you with other real MGTOW. We’ll be laughing at your expense because you’re just like the simp blue pillers who are married yet claim to be MGTOW.

You’re all just like the guys who still spend countless hours playing games with women, campaigning for pussy except, instead of pussy, you campaign for excuses and justifications to remain IMPRISONED to a bronze age, anthropomorphic myth. PATHETIC!

F~~~ your beliefs and vain faith. If I could I’d revoke your MGTOW cards and cut them up with scissors. I’d excommunicate you for being posers. Good bye suckers. 

I’ve read several different people while being on MGTOW.com  and it’s becoming more and more obvious that this place is full of Christians. Unsurprising considering politics. As usual, I’m done when I find out either a place is full of misandric whores in love with feminism, or its filled profusely with equally deluded monotheists. Both of the groups are ridiculous, uneducated, indoctrinated and undesirable for an intellectual male. 

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

More and more I see the followers of strict logical non belief to be the most aggressive….This is a trend that will continue I believe..Ironically the bible speaks about the persecution and ridicule of Christians….The logical atheist needs to have solid proof before believing in religion….But they will have deep scientific discussions about theoretical physics….some science is no more provable than religion….

MYTH: Theoretical physics is a useful tool to explain particles smaller than a photon or how the universe does work.

TRUTH: The brainpower of theoretical physics should be used in applied physics and we should stop wasting time, energy, and money dreaming about theoretical physics concepts.

Historically religious leaders wowed their flock with stories about miracles and stories about super human events.  Today bulls~~~ theoretical physicists are wowing their gullible flock with stories about teleportation, worm holes, parallel universes, multiple bubble universes, string theory, black holes, dark matter, anti-matter, existence of something unique at two or more points at once, etc. Don’t listen to and try to believe all that irrelevant, untrue, unprovable nonsense that has no real value in the real world that you are now living in!  Theoretical physicists have replaced the religious prophets of old and their supernatural claims or theories are just as outrageous and not to be believed! No homosapien will ever be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent!  Which non insane human really thinks that they can be all knowing, exist everywhere, and be all powerful???

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

That’s surprising, because he previously had only good things to say here and gave a rave review.

/forums/topic/a-voice-for-men-website-weak/

On this topic though, I’m 100% free will over destiny any day of the week. I don’t get how anybody can think “everything happens for a reason”…. but I am also forced to admit there have been times when I needed to tell myself “everything’s gonna work itself out”. I have to be honest about that.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

john Doe wrote:

What if it’s your destiny to pursue your free will?

That would mean we did not have it to begin with.   One does not pursue what they don’t have.

why would I pursue that which I Have?  One only pursues what they don’t have..

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[Terminal MemeParticipant 57]

Key Master: Great point on the instinctive nature of ethics, present in animals and humans alike, long before we learned to write ’em down.

I admit, I was overly angry yesterday. It drained me, ruined my evening. The resentment isn’t worth it. Luckily I don’t drink at the religious folks or anyone else anymore. A lesson I’ve learned over and over; to police my emotions. With all sincerity, the perfect recipe for suicide/homicide is an unquenchable resentment, impulsive military training and 4 times the legal limit running through your veins.

I’m a bit more chipper today. These guys will either come around or they won’t so I’m relaxed. As for my vile post that was quoted here; if I’m able to, I’m going to delete that comment. My apologies. My anger got the best of me and it was over the top. Hopefully Harpomason will delete it’s presence here as not to needlessly anger Christians. I admit that it’s tactless and useless.

There’s a lot to be said for scientists who found answers they weren’t looking for. It shows they had no inventive to dress up the facts. Darwin wanted to be a preacher. Newton was also a believer to a fault. Despite their faith, they gave us untainted genius. Sam Harris has a PhD in Neuroscience and a degree in Philosophy, his proofs against Freewill ought to be taken seriously. Hitchens never pretended we’d rid ourselves of faith or even campaigned to expunge it. He just pointed out, along with Harris, how it provides the most potent recipe for human suffering and ignorance-when you read both of these men’s work critically without bias, you can’t dispute it.

Anyway, I hope you avail yourselves of the information available, you may be surprised at your own mistaken view.

 

[harpo-my-“SON”Participant 2410]

Terminal Meme: My hats off to you for this and welcome back

I’m a bit more chipper today. These guys will either come around or they won’t so I’m relaxed. As for my vile post that was quoted here; if I’m able to, I’m going to delete that comment. My apologies. My anger got the best of me and it was over the top. Hopefully Harpomason will delete it’s presence here as not to needlessly anger Christians. I admit that it’s tactless and useless.

I accept the apology and forgiveness is granted. I also ask that you forgive my calling it hate.  Anger and hate walk a very fine line.. My anger has caused me to say hateful sounding things…I will not make such an assumption about you again but will leave the post here as some members may learn that men are instinctively diplomatic and can overlook and move past the emotions of the past…(women fail at this every time because f~~~ ups  becomes ammunition for later )..I understand you would feel shamed for emotions getting the best of you just as I am about calling you hateful…

  Anyway, I hope you avail yourselves of the information available, you may be surprised at your own mistaken view.

ha ha ha ha ha ha… My faith does not rule me but provides wisdom to provide for my emotional needs…

hypothetical situation we are soldiers fighting side by side. You become wounded needing my assistance but the only thing I have to give me the courage to help you is my faith…..I am frozen with fear and my belief system and my faith in divine providence is all I have left to motivate me….cliff hangar the end…

Would you deny me my beliefs?

Even if you are convinced my belief system to be wrong….You must Admit “faith” could have a useful purpose…

I pray we move forward and all our wounds are healed in the name of the flying spaghetti Monster I pray Ramen

 

 

I was bound to be misunderstood, and I laugh at those who misunderstand me. Kind mockery at the well intentioned, but unfettered cruelty towards those would be prison guards of my creative possibilities. This so as to learn as much from misunderstanding as from understanding. Taking pleasure in worthy opponents and making language fluid and flowing like a river yet pointed and precise as a dagger. Contradicts the socialistic purpose of language and makes for a wonderful linguistic dance, A verbal martial art with constant parries that hone the weapon that is the two edged sword of my mouth.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Terminal Meme wrote:

I admit, I was overly angry yesterday. It drained me, ruined my evening. The resentment isn’t worth it.

Yeah.. I would have to agree.  No big deal though, been through same situations.  No hard feelings.  I would rather discuss these topics with someone convinced of their beliefs, rather than someone who half heartedly believed them.

With that being said maybe I already made my criticisms and counter arguments.   I could repeat them, but that would prove useless because they would be ignored again.

Without even the slightest intention of insulting you, your philosophy collapses in on itself.  It lacks reason, period.   The evidence you gave is either bias or misinterpreted/faulty/incomplete history.  I think I explained myself about this already.  There is no reason why I should believe you, because of this.  And to repeat myself….this is not meant to personally insult you.

 

harpo-my-“SON” wrote:

Theoretical physicists have replaced the religious prophets of old and their supernatural claims or theories are just as outrageous and not to be believed! No homosapien will ever be omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent! Which non insane human really thinks that they can be all knowing, exist everywhere, and be all powerful???

Harpomason gave a solid point with this.  Nothing really has changed, except instead of worshipping a diety/dieties we have begun worshipping ourselves. The majority of science pushed today is theoretical.  This cannot be denied.

Terminal Meme wrote:

He just pointed out, along with Harris, how it provides the most potent recipe for human suffering and ignorance-when you read both of these men’s work critically without bias, you can’t dispute it.

.

Actually, it is disputed.  Athiesm/athiests have persecuted and killed a large number of people throughout the twentieth century.  To ignore this would be hypocrisy and a flat lie.  There is no evidence of atheism quenching man’s hunger for war or preventing famine.  Man is Man.

With that being said, why the strong resentment of religion?  Or is it religious people?  What happened that caused you so much pain?

 

[Author]

Posts