Home › Forums › The Litter Box › Curious about MGTOW members' attitudes towards family
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J.D Silvernail 4 years, 8 months ago.
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What was naive of me was assuming the potential for good faith dialogue in here.
You started off by calling all MGTOW defeatists. Or did you not think a man’s reading comprehension would catch that slip?
That’s not what I said. I was specifically referring to something @BadKhan had said regarding him abandoning his desire to be a father. Unless, of course, all MGOTW are aligned with that.
@BadKhan, give me a moment to reply… I’m trying to figure out how to use the quoting tools in this forum.
“Some of you gentlemen seem to underestimate the importance of wise selection when it comes to a woman with which to have a family. Of course it is true that the cultural/legal framework is stacked against men in the event of trouble. What’s important is not to select a woman who’s going to do that. I’d guess that in many cases where these awful things happen to man, there were warnings/red flags that could’ve and should’ve been seen in advance.”
No offense intended here Bob, but were you raised in a single mom setup? This might answer where your “reality” is based. The most efficient answer for this and I’m certain, more questions that you have, is to start reading and studying all that’s available right here. There’s a wealth of info here that is truly amazing. Maybe start with introductions of old members and the hell they went through, and how it can help you. Best wishes, unless you are a troll, etc. If you are not, best wishes.
Having studied here for a good ten hours or so, if you still have the same view of, “Some of you gentlemen seem to underestimate the importance of wise selection” then I would advise you to study more here, I cannot tell you to go to “sandman” as he is already leading too many toward their end.
"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
Badkan typed….
As far as I am concerned, its all about risk management. I would like to be a father and have a family. But with the current circumstances, even without marriage, it is simply not worth it. You don’t need to be married to end up with the bill and with the PAIN of PARENTAL ALIENATION. And it’s not just you that suffers, but YOUR KID TOO. My heart goes to all the fathers that are going through this hell. And to be honest, I also though I would not be able to “cross that bridge”, but all I have to do is look at the recent news and see how less and less rights fathers have regarding their own sons/daughters for me to see that I am taking the right position (at least to my life). Father’s can’t stop the mother from giving HIS kids to adoption, even though he has the means and THE WILL to take care of the child. Neither they can see the birth of his son/daughter, if the woman doesn’t want to. It’s all stacked against you. So nah, I’m out. Hoping that women develop parthenogenesis soon though, because they will need it. hehehe
BadKan gave you a textbook reason why MGTOW decide against marriage and child rearing. You DID respond… with
I get all that, but I would assume that a resourceful and motivated man can find a way to actualise his desires for family even within the framework that’s stacked up against him you just laid out. To throw your hands up in the air and give up on this aspiration is too defeatist, in my humble opinion.
blah blah blah… then the nail in the coffin .
No backpedaling, you can’t reword this, you can’t dodge it. You implied all MGTOW were defeatist, in your humble opinion.
You’re obviously a NAWALT Whiteknight. That’s been thoroughly established at this point. What I will not let you wiggle out from was this ^
“Some of you gentlemen seem to underestimate the importance of wise selection when it comes to a woman with which to have a family. Of course it is true that the cultural/legal framework is stacked against men in the event of trouble. What’s important is not to select a woman who’s going to do that. I’d guess that in many cases where these awful things happen to man, there were warnings/red flags that could’ve and should’ve been seen in advance.”
No offense intended here Bob, but were you raised in a single mom setup?
No offence taken. And no, I was raised in what you can call a conventional nuclear family.
Anonymous42importance of wise selection
Hey AB, wisdom dictates to avoid women altogether, seeing the carnage of divorce and ruined society all around us only an idiot would consider having a family. AB if you havn’t noticed, the family has been ruined by the law, not only man’s law, but feminism has ruined women under natures law. I hear a toilet handle flushing in your future……
You are absolutely right, since visiting Rome is way CHEAPER, skydiving is way SAFER and both are way MORE POSSIBLE than you finding love in a woman. But I digress.
I don’t share your degree of cynicism.
Really now? Then I suggest you to look for more news regarding divorce. At this point, even MILIONARIES are being ripped off by their wives, regardless of all their “resourcefulness”. You want to take that risk? Go for it. There is a fine line between being BRAVE and BEING A FOOL. When you find this magical formula of yours that gives you a chance of being a father without having your SOUL ripped of your BODY by the family court and WOMEN, through the reinforcement of laws that makes fathers PAY THE BILLS but does not allow them to SEE THEIR CHILDREN, you let us know. Until then, I will keep learning to be happy with what I am/got. Thank you very much.
I’m not defending conventional marriage. I’m speaking of monogamy and family life outside of that context, although I’m aware of the similar legal implications involved even in the absence of a formal marriage contract.
Well, than I am happy not to share your humble opinion. I am not being defeatist, I am just learning how to change the things I CAN change. I cannot, and want not, to change others (a.k.a women). They have to learn to do some self-criticism before I even start considering sharing anything with them (let alone a child). This is called “adaptability”. Are you suggesting that men should just keep going, sharing resources with women, regardless of their actions? Keep having kids, just to see them being used against us? This is not bravery, is stupidity. And WALKING AWAY from this setting, is not defeatism, is COMMON SENSE.
I think the most enjoyable things in life are shared. If one genuinely wants bachelorhood, that’s his choice to make. And of course it may be how he finds his happiness and self-fulfillment. I’m speaking of men who want mutual love with a woman and want a family. Didn’t you just a moment ago that you’re one of those men, or at least that you’d like to have children?
Allow me to disagree with you on this as well. MEN are very adaptable. A few men would say that SEX is the core of masculinity, and yet we have many men that are more than happy to go CELIBATE. Other’s would say the unconditional PROTECTOR ROLE is the core of men, and yet many of us (myself included) would say this is actually stupid (white knights). So the definition of what is and isn’t a “men’s core” is really not that definitive. Besides, for the sake of arguments, lets say you are right. So what? Is GIVING UP YOUR LIFE worth it to taking a gamble that will probably NOT PAY OFF? Again, you are more than welcome to jump off that cliff, I am walking the OTHER WAY.
I didn’t say all men wanted this, I said many men do. Many men view their pursuit of happiness and The Good Life as being intertwined with mutual love with a woman and having a family. Those men won’t be happy surrendering all of this due to the fears you’ve laid out here of being destroyed by a malicious woman-turned-bitch.
Please define happiness. My definition is pretty simple actually, it can be summed up in one word: peace. That’s what I want. I would love to share it, but if in trying to share it means I would lose the very thing I am looking for, than I am contempt in walking alone. Like I said before, MEN are very good into adapt to the environment. It is not our job, not anymore, to carry women with us. We already provided the tools for them to walk besides us. It is time for THEM to pick up the pace, or be left behind. You are the one giving the power of YOUR happiness to others. My happiness is up to me, for better or worse I am responsible, and that’s something I WILL NOT GIVE TO A WOMAN, simply because they already proved they ARE NOT WORTH IT.
That is a very low standard for happiness. I think the best things in life are shared with loved ones. “Going One’s Own Way” is great, but is it necessarily predicated on solitude? You seem to be suggesting that it is. You also seem to be articulating a radically individualistic worldview that’s irreconcilable with the human condition. But hey, to each his own.
Well, the fact that it looks sad to you doesn’t make it not TRUE. Besides, there are a lot of things that are even sadder, in my opinion. When men are ASSAULTED by WOMEN and are UNABLE TO GET HELP. When boys are RAPED BY WOMEN and have to see their assailants WALK FREE, that if they (the boys) don’t have to pay CHILD SUPPORT if the women gets pregnant. When women talk about a men HAVING HIS PENIS CUTTED OFF and their reaction is LAUGH about it and HUMILIATE the victim, because he is MALE. To have MASCULINITY deemed as perverse to the point that even FREAKING FEMALE ROBOTS that don’t even exist yet have to be protected from “rape”, but a robot that pleases a woman (a.k.a vibrator) is deemed “empowering”. All this, in my opinion, is far FAR sadder than men just realizing that women are not worth it and walking away. But hey, what do I know, I am just a man after all. Cheers.
You won’t get any disagreement with me that out contemporary culture is largely poisoned with leftist/feminist hostility towards all things masculine. I’m well aware of the deck being stacked against men in many dimensions of our societies. I’m not at all disagreeing with the facts on the ground as you lay them out, I’m just disagreeing a little with the conclusions you’re drawing from them.
Anonymous1BadKan wrote:
As far as I am concerned, its all about risk management. I would like to be a father and have a family. But with the current circumstances, even without marriage, it is simply not worth it. You don’t need to be married to end up with the bill and with the PAIN of PARENTAL ALIENATION. And it’s not just you that suffers, but YOUR KID TOO. My heart goes to all the fathers that are going through this hell. And to be honest, I also though I would not be able to “cross that bridge”, but all I have to do is look at the recent news and see how less and less rights fathers have regarding their own sons/daughters for me to see that I am taking the right position (at least to my life). Father’s can’t stop the mother from giving HIS kids to adoption, even though he has the means and THE WILL to take care of the child. Neither they can see the birth of his son/daughter, if the woman doesn’t want to. It’s all stacked against you. So nah, I’m out. Hoping that women develop parthenogenesis soon though, because they will need it. hehehe
I get all that, (…)
If you did, you wouldn’t have used the NAWALT (Not all women are like that) argument, would you?
BadKan gave you a textbook reason why MGTOW decide against marriage and child rearing. You DID respond… with
I get all that, but I would assume that a resourceful and motivated man can find a way to actualise his desires for family even within the framework that’s stacked up against him you just laid out. To throw your hands up in the air and give up on this aspiration is too defeatist, in my humble opinion.
blah blah blah… then the nail in the coffin . No backpedaling, you can’t reword this, you can’t dodge it. You implied all MGTOW were defeatist, in your humble opinion. You’re obviously a NAWALT Whiteknight. That’s been thoroughly established at this point. What I will not let you wiggle out from was this ^
But you yourself said earlier in this thread that “Going One’s Own Way” may include fatherhood and having a family. The red line is marriage. Are you saying monogamy and family life isn’t possible in the absence of the marriage? You’ve staked out two positions which are seemingly contradictory.
Lastly, you can spare me the acrimony. I’m not thin-skinned. Last thing I’m worried about is hysteria from a forum denizen who feels his turf is being violated by an outsider.
BadKan wrote: As far as I am concerned, its all about risk management. I would like to be a father and have a family. But with the current circumstances, even without marriage, it is simply not worth it. You don’t need to be married to end up with the bill and with the PAIN of PARENTAL ALIENATION. And it’s not just you that suffers, but YOUR KID TOO. My heart goes to all the fathers that are going through this hell. And to be honest, I also though I would not be able to “cross that bridge”, but all I have to do is look at the recent news and see how less and less rights fathers have regarding their own sons/daughters for me to see that I am taking the right position (at least to my life). Father’s can’t stop the mother from giving HIS kids to adoption, even though he has the means and THE WILL to take care of the child. Neither they can see the birth of his son/daughter, if the woman doesn’t want to. It’s all stacked against you. So nah, I’m out. Hoping that women develop parthenogenesis soon though, because they will need it. hehehe
I get all that, (…)
If you did, you wouldn’t have used the NAWALT (Not all women are like that) argument, would you?
Ah, so that’s what that acronym is. Thanks.
And yeah, I think that it’s important to exercise diligence when selecting a partner to be the mother of one’s children. Writing of the status quo of our current societies as being hostile towards all things masculine is one thing, and one thing I’m sympathetic towards. Writing off all women as potential partners in a mutual relationship in the context of a family isn’t. That seems to be where you’re coming from.
Some of you gentlemen seem to underestimate the importance of wise selection when it comes to a woman with which to have a family.
FALSE.
YOU are over emphasizing the importance of it and behaving as though your selection is even a factor.
Give it a rest. Wrong website for that s~~~ and you will not get away with it.Why are you pretending women are truthful and don’t worth their butts off to misrepresent themselves(?) – even before the wedding!!
You’re not REALLY going to try to tell us this is HIS fault are you?
Here’s another one. Are you really coming here to fault his “unwise selection” as the problem – and not her f~~~ing unacceptable attitude and behavior?
/audio/3-million-dollar-bitch/
We trust you will make a “wise selection” when replying, or an even wiser selection when attempting to join a website… as if the community of men you are looking for sympathy from are not already lightyears ahead of you. No matter how perfect your selection, a woman can (and will) flip on a whim and you will find out your selection makes no difference.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.I’m not defending conventional marriage. I’m speaking of monogamy and family life outside of that context, although I’m aware of the similar legal implications involved even in the absence of a formal marriage contract.
If you can find the solution please let us know, a better man said, “write a book.”
I was all “for” conventional marriage until the events of five years ago. Redpill moments have a way of “crystalclarifying” one’s grasp of reality. Guys at this site have had that redpill moment in one form or another.
Ask yourself what drove you here in the first place.
"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
There’s a fine line between blaming the man and acknowledging his responsibility to choose wisely when it comes to females. But this truth exists in all aspects of a man’s life. Choosing friends, an education/profession, a job/career, a lifestyle, to pay his bills on time, or to be a moral operator. I am, admittedly, making the NAWALT argument. And I mean it, sincerely. So if that makes me a naive blue-piller, well, then it is what it is.
Outside of that, much of what I’ve seen from MGTOW makes sense to me, and I understand the seeds from which this “movement” was grown.
But you yourself said earlier in this thread that “Going One’s Own Way” may include fatherhood and having a family. The red line is marriage. Are you saying monogamy and family life isn’t possible in the absence of the marriage? You’ve staked out two positions which are seemingly contradictory. Lastly, you can spare me the acrimony. I’m not thin-skinned. Last thing I’m worried about is hysteria from a forum denizen who feels his turf is being violated by an outsider.
I’m saying that many decide their own way of dealing with child rearing. Some embrace it, some avoid it entirely.
So by saying it’s contradictory are you actually invalidating my point regarding “defeatist” being an insult?
Let me clarify my “contradiction”.
Forgive my grave error of saying “all” instead of “some”, does that lessen the severity of your insult? Not at all.
The severity of my slip up is still dwarfed by your “defeatist” condemnation of the MGTOW that do choose to avoid child rearing.
I’m not here to make you worry Angel Bob. I’m here to let you know, you’re among superiors who see society for what it is, who aren’t delusional, react accordingly, and you haven’t done your homework. Where would you say that leaves you?
Clueless, stumbling and ignorant. That would make you annoying, not threatening or violating. Cyberspace is not real, so “turf” is a bit of a misnomer.
I gave you the best advice already, but you didn’t heed it. Go do your OWN research. Most opinions given by members in this thread is done out of pure pity and charity. Mine’s the former.
Oh god … please please listen to what these guy’s are telling you….. please.
You’ve come here with very little reading of mgtow and yet you can’t get your head around our answers.
As Maye West said …. you can lead a whore to culture but you can’t make her think 😁
I’m not defending conventional marriage. I’m speaking of monogamy and family life outside of that context, although I’m aware of the similar legal implications involved even in the absence of a formal marriage contract.
If you can find the solution please let us know, a better man said, “write a book.” I was all “for” conventional marriage until the events of five years ago. Redpill moments have a way of “crystalclarifying” one’s grasp of reality. Guys at this site have had that redpill moment in one form or another. Ask yourself what drove you here in the first place.
What drove me here was genuine and good faith curiosity and interest in the MGTOW philosophy. I came upon this place, and the MGTOW attitude more broadly, some time ago cruising through anti-feminist content on the internet. I reject feminism, call me an anti-feminist, if you will, and wanted to “get to know” this place. I was not driven here due to some life disaster at the hands of some evil witch, although I have deep sympathy for and understanding of those who were.
Anonymous42
But you yourself said earlier in this thread that “Going One’s Own Way” may include fatherhood and having a family. The red line is marriage. Are you saying monogamy and family life isn’t possible in the absence of the marriage? You’ve staked out two positions which are seemingly contradictory. Lastly, you can spare me the acrimony. I’m not thin-skinned. Last thing I’m worried about is hysteria from a forum denizen who feels his turf is being violated by an outsider.
I’m saying that many decide their own way of dealing with child rearing. Some embrace it, some avoid it entirely. So by saying it’s contradictory are you actually invalidating my point regarding “defeatist” being an insult? Let me clarify my “contradiction”. Forgive my grave error of saying “all” instead of “some”, does that lessen the severity of your insult? Not at all. The severity of my slip up is still dwarfed by your “defeatist” condemnation of the MGTOW that do choose to avoid child rearing. I’m not here to make you worry Angel Bob. I’m here to let you know, you’re among superiors who see society for what it is, who aren’t delusional, react accordingly, and you haven’t done your homework. Where would you say that leaves you? Clueless, stumbling and ignorant. That would make you annoying, not threatening or violating. Cyberspace is not real, so “turf” is a bit of a misnomer. I gave you the best advice already, but you didn’t heed it. Go do your OWN research. Most opinions given by members in this thread is done out of pure pity and charity. Mine’s the former.
Definitely not among superiors. Forgive me for upsetting the homeostasis on your online ecosystem. I didn’t mean to upset delicate flowers like yourself.
That said, I appreciate those who engage me in good faith. I’m not here to agitate, although thin-skinned people will go hysterical at the drop of the hat. ‘Tis the nature of many niche online communities. Just here to engage and have a dialogue.
Anonymous42You’re a fun guy AB, many of us have 1/2inch diamond plate skin, go ahead and try!
Anonymous1I don’t share your degree of cynicism.
Too bad.
I’m not defending conventional marriage. I’m speaking of monogamy and family life outside of that context, although I’m aware of the similar legal implications involved even in the absence of a formal marriage contract.
And I am explaining why it would not work. It is not up to MEN anymore. WOMEN don’t want monogamy. You might like the cuckhold part in your relationship, but I really don’t.
I think the most enjoyable things in life are shared. If one genuinely wants bachelorhood, that’s his choice to make. And of course it may be how he finds his happiness and self-fulfillment. I’m speaking of men who want mutual love with a woman and want a family. Didn’t you just a moment ago that you’re one of those men, or at least that you’d like to have children?
And didn’t I just explained why I am choosing NOT to have children? Do you think I would put my kid through the hardships of divorce and parental alienation willingly? And again, it is not up to MEN ANYMORE. How about you start talking to WOMEN THEN and tell them not to abandon GREAT HUSBANDS… Oh wait…
And once more, if you like to take back a woman, after she rode the c~~~ carrousel before she met you, and then ABANDONED YOU TO RIDE IT ONE MORE TIME, it is your prerogative. I like to think my worth is a little bit higher than that.
I didn’t say all men wanted this, I said many men do. Many men view their pursuit of happiness and The Good Life as being intertwined with mutual love with a woman and having a family. Those men won’t be happy surrendering all of this due to the fears you’ve laid out here of being destroyed by a malicious woman-turned-bitch.
Yes, but WOMEN DON’T. They see the good life as having a slave to break his back to sustain her and than, when he cannot be used anymore, to be replaced by another slave. Beside, you UNDERESTIMATE GREATLY the willpower and ingenuity of men. Again, YOU are the one putting ALL YOUR HAPPINESS on the hands of women. Men will adapt, I am adapting, you as it seems, is still struggling with the fact that you might have to rely on yourself to find happiness WITHOUT a woman. Good luck with that.
That is a very low standard for happiness. I think the best things in life are shared with loved ones. “Going One’s Own Way” is great, but is it necessarily predicated on solitude? You seem to be suggesting that it is. You also seem to be articulating a radically individualistic worldview that’s irreconcilable with the human condition. But hey, to each his own.
Who said anything about solitude? I have friends, I have family, I have a job, I talk to people, and share the good things in life when I can. I don’t need to f~~~ and have children to everyone I meet. You are the one putting happiness on the “being loved” by a woman category, and that is a pretty low standard of happiness. Not only is impossible to achieve it without lying to yourself, but it puts you on a constant victim position (there in no way you can achieve happiness by yourself, you NEED a woman, and NEED a child). Congratulations, you are almost a woman! I wouldn’t want that, but hey to each his own.
You won’t get any disagreement with me that out contemporary culture is largely poisoned with leftist/feminist hostility towards all things masculine. I’m well aware of the deck being stacked against men in many dimensions of our societies. I’m not at all disagreeing with the facts on the ground as you lay them out, I’m just disagreeing a little with the conclusions you’re drawing from them.
And your conclusion is that MEN needs keep banging their heads to the wall until the wall eventually cracks. Again, you are more than welcome to do that, just forgive me if I don’t join in. I like my head in 1 piece.
@KeyMaster
There’s a fine line between blaming the man and acknowledging his responsibility to choose wisely when it comes to females.
There is no “fine line” at all. It coudn’t be any more obvious.
I would like to present you with a box of hand-grenades.
“Now what are you waiting for??! Not all grenades will explode in your face. Some of them are duds. You just need to make a “wise selection”. You seem to underestimate the importance of wise selection when it comes to hand grenades. This is a flaw in your character. There’s a fine line between blaming me or munitions manufacturers and acknowledging YOUR responsibility to choose wisely when it comes to hand grenades. You’re just thin-skinned. I don’t share your degree of cynicism.”
Sound familiar?
Is that acceptable to you, you piece of s~~~??
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.- AuthorPosts
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