Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › YOU Can't MAKE THEM Into What YOU WANT Them To Be
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Gravel Pit 10 months, 3 weeks ago.
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It occurs to me that there are traitors to MGTOW here and I’m not one of them. Any of you who suggests that a smart and good person just die without passing on their genes is an enemy of the species.
Was it just me, or was this a total contradiction.
I understand the other parts fine, Im being accused of being socialist for my approval of public reproduction, government education facilities etc…
BUT FOR A GUY TO CLAIM HE IS MGTOW, THEN SHAME US FOR NOT TRYING TO PROCREATE…. that is backwards….Ain’t it smells like tuna, to you?
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
It occurs to me that there are traitors to MGTOW here and I’m not one of them. Any of you who suggests that a smart and good person just die without passing on their genes is an enemy of the species.
Was it just me, or was this a total contradiction.
I understand the other parts fine, Im being accused of being socialist for my approval of public reproduction, government education facilities etc…
BUT FOR A GUY TO CLAIM HE IS MGTOW, THEN SHAME US FOR NOT TRYING TO PROCREATE…. that is backwards….You’re quoting Veniversum here, not Dark Kenshi. But I agree with. The idea that MGTOW must procreate makes no sense. MGTOW doesn’t exclude procreation, but certainly doesn’t require it.
On public education, I think the vast majority of people see it as a necessity because we never lived in a society without it. It’s easy to imagine a full collapse without it. But people were educated before there was public education.
Ok. Then do it.
This isn’t rocket science.
You have two systems of Human Reproduction. One is Private, the other is Public/State Run
One is for rabbits in the forest, the other is for a sentient, post-industrial, space-faring species.We don’t even need to bring ‘race’ into this, or arty wombs, or gene-editing, or totalitarianism etc… Those are parts of a fictional book, or buzz words for political bigots. I can make the argument for Public human reproduction without those… (even though they’re inevitable…)
I support the idea of Public/State-Run human reproduction. Why?
Because look at the current Privately run human reproduction model we’ve been using since we walked upright… its a s~~~show that is getting worse and worse.
1. fatherless homes are abundant… this has a noticeable effect on the development of children, which in turn leads to high negative statistics like violence, suicide, stunted education etc… Our greatest asset, children, we do nothing to maximize the well-being and output of that asset… we just leave it to chance like APES.
2. modern women are doing a terrible job of human reproduction. Not only are they unable to sustain/replenish the population but the individuals they are producing are of horrible quality. The people we get, are not exactly Newtons and Nakamotos are they? more like NFL players and Next in line for a felony conviction or Welfare check…
3. The quality of Education is sporadic or non-existent. I’m not arguing for a ‘1986’ society here… but you’re a damn fool if you think kids STOP learning memes when they leave the public classroom and go home to uncaring single moms on welfare. They go home and engage in CULTURE that is antithesis to a space bound species. Those are OUR CHILDREN, this species assets are being WASTED.
anyway… its inevitable anyway and I HOPE IT HAPPENS SOONER.
Stardusk already said, the “Family Model” in NOT the building block of civilization. We dont need it. Infact, its HURTING us to continue chasing it.
We need to separate sex from reproduction. That is the recipe for success. Currently, we’re halfway there and that is BAD. We need to Give MEN their sexual revolution and Rights to opt out… bring on the FUTURE, stop romanticizing the TradCon delusion of the pastWe need to separate sex from reproduction.
I realize this is not a MGTOW topic, nor does it relate to the plight of individual men. This is MACRO speculative observation of the species.
Public/State Run Human Reproduction WILL happen, it’s just decades or centuries away…
As for us, Today… the only solution is to go your own way. To the extent I engage women, it will never be for marriage or procreation. Not because Im a womanizer or anything, but because of cost/benefit awareness. Its a rotten deal where I get screwed.
What’s more, and something Veniversum has not accounted for, is that you can’t get a woman pregnant or convince one to be in a serious LTR anyway! GO TRY! I’ve been saying this alot and its freaking true, women DONT WANT TO BE MOTHERS. They DONT WANT TO BE YOUR WIFE… Modernity has distracted her and sold her on ‘iPhones, SUVs, social media, high pay salary, disposbale males for sex, birth control!, anti-depressants and ZERO accountability.
Considering this, your odds of getting one of your SPERM into an egg and carried full term are SLIM AT BEST. And if she does have your child, its a f~~~ing 90% gurantee of divorce and child support coming… SO GO AHEAD AND KEEP SHAMING US Veniversum! Im not signing up for that s~~~, NOR AM I WASTING MY TIME LOOKING FOR WOMEN THAT DONT EXIST.
MGTOW makes sense, and it’s a logical justification all around… it has a sound basis.
HOWEVER! There are many who ended up in mgtow NOT BY CHOICE… but by the fact that modern women are TRASHY C~~~S who HURT YOU… these women are f~~~ing ruthless, not loving. They dont want to get married and raise 3.5 children in a white-pickett fence suburban home… THAT IS BULLS~~~ and we know it!
Girls just want to have fun! or didnt you hear their song? They want to enjoy the amusement park and ride the c~~~ carousel… NOT MOTHER YOUR CHILD! They dont give two s~~~s about your emotions or well being. Its all a fascade. How do I know? Because LOOK AROUND at all the
f~~~ing whoresaverage girls with 200 bedpost notches…When they finally do give in to the desire to “be a mother” or “be a wife” its because they hit the wall! Don’t EVER shame men on this website for not chasing pussy and trying to “pass on his genes” LOL.. you f~~~ing cuck. Go marry a single mom you f~~~r
You are deluded, Veniversum. You still believe in the “AWALT” myth, or somehow you think you can make unicorns.
Ok, I will give you the benefit of the doubt: Create unicorns first, then show them to me. If and when you do that, I will believe in your view. Before that, thanks, but GravelPit is right.I found Veniversum’s AWALT unicorn, actually TWO of them.
I can’t wait to be a good little tool for society and marry one of them, and get one of them pregnant.All my life I've had doubts about who I am, where I belonged. Now I'm like the arrow that springs from the bow. No hesitation, no doubts. The path is clear. And what are you? Alive. Everything else is negotiable. Women have rights; men have responsibilities; MGTOW have freedom. Marriage is for chumps. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart-R'as al Ghul.
She loves me.
We met on okCupid. I’ve never met a woman who made me FEEL like this. We’re already talking baby names.
We met on okCupid. I’ve never met a woman who made me FEEL like this. We’re already talking baby names.
Cess-pit for a girl
Lime-pit for a boyEvolutionary auto-pilot. we can either just let things run their course or take the reigns and put our boots on.
I can make the argument for Public human reproduction without those… (even though they’re inevitable…)
I support the idea of Public/State-Run human reproduction. Why?You pointed out the problems with private reproduction, actually with private child development, but really didn’t state why public child development would be any better.
I think to make your argument, you’d have to take a good look at boarding schools, as they probably are the closest thing to public child development as you’re going to find. But you’d also have to factor in the current differences between public and private schools, and then assume public boarding schools would have the same issues to deal with.
What issues? Poor teachers that can’t be fired, made worse if there are absolutely no parents available to fight on the behalf of their kids. Then there is the indoctrination of children to form a specific political belief. These really concern me when you consider children are exposed to this 24/7 with no advocates looking out for them.
But I admit that I have thought that taking kids away from single mothers who can’t support their kids, rather than paying them welfare, seems like an acceptable alternative. Neither is ideal, but taking kids away removes any excuse not to work, and provides motivation to work. Perhaps it’s some setup where a parent has visitation rights or something, while they are working to be financially stable.
And I can’t see the applied to every kid in the nation. If you’re talking centuries from now, well, all bets are off. We could very well understand the needs of child development to the point where parents truly are unnecessary, and indoctrination isn’t a concern, but we most certainly do not now.
Ok. Then do it.
Fair points, perhaps the conditioning center will not perfectly fulfill the developmental needs of the child. However it cant be any worse than poverty stricken ghettopia where the child learns to be racist and violent. One is certainly a greater evil…
taking kids away
I don’t propose we take children away from mothers. The child in the state run “Boarding School” would be the progeny of paid surrogate mothers, the offspring of sperm banks… There would be no grieving mothers
The transition to Public Reproduction takes decades. It starts with acknowledging that we have to make the change though, so regulation must begin such as needing a License to Reproduce. Sounds Orwellian right? LOL. But its NOT!
As stated, women today are doing a crap job of mothering, and the state can do better. So we’re making the change. We gave women rights for 80 years and their response was to abandon their roles as mother and wife… FINE… you dont want to be moms/wives… NO PROBLEM… by law, now you cant… unless you meet a STRICT set of requirements: clean genetics (having nothing to do with race, more like having no obvious heritable diseases or disorders, having a high IQ…) having significant financial ability to support a child into college, status as citizenship and length of you family’s citizenship) … etc… We dont need idiots breeding… we need smart, qualified people breeding.
When you think about it, this actually gives a good job to idiot women that we have no use for. Unqualified women can still be surrogates because we’re not using their eggs anyway, we need them to carry the babies we want created…
Its like transitioning from any old system… starts off slow, gains steam, becomes normal ….
The hard part is dealing with unlicensed births, unwanted babies… How do we punish them? Is it human to destroy the baby? Ofcourse not but we cant let these animals go on breeding like rabbits.
When you think about it, the ELITES may already be trying to do this? Why else was birth control and abortion invented?? To curb natural births and kill the birthrate artificially….
The ELITES aren’t building a slave race of idiot tax payers… they are trying to build a species that doesn’t rely on beast-like reproduction. We need to GROW the kind of humans that will catapult us to the NEXT LEVEL..
Firstly, I’m not attacking MGTOW. All of you who project that I’m doing so are making a straw man of my argument. I’m advocating the attack, of the systems that damaged men enough to want to create MGTOW in the first place. I’m not a bulls~~~ blue pill trojan horse, so don’t even try it. I’m saying that women need subordinated.. and not only do they need it, they WANT IT. They are unhappy when they are in dominant positions. When I speak of the survival of the species, I’m not speaking to men in MGTOW who already passed on their genes.. but their suffering and the establishment of MGTOW in the first place is the declaration of a problem. What do we do with problems? SOLVE THE F~~~ING PROBLEM. We don’t take the feminine route and just whine, and give up, and blame people. We go back to the drawing board, find out why we failed, and change our strategies. Good men should be successful, period. The few of you who attempted to use sophistry and straw man to twist my argument have failed. We’re rewarding bad behavior, so we get more of it.. IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM. So we change the laws, but the first thing that has to be done is abolishment of the welfare state. This isn’t just for your sake. This is for the sake of your sons and daughters. Don’t tell me that you do not love your families, I know better. Also, I am not advocating MARRIAGE. I’m advocating reproduction. Your conflation that I was promoting marriage is a straw man. All of the problems associated with marriage are derived from the legal system. If women didn’t have it on easy street via government handouts, they wouldn’t behave so badly. They would be humbled, subordinated. Nice attempt at sophistry though, Socrates would be proud.
I’m okay with the gene-passing thing, but these days a man should only do it with a surrogate. If my son wants to have a son, he can go the surrogacy route and I’ll help watch the kid in my retired years. (I was a stay-at home dad for a while once).
Perhaps the future can be extended families that exclude women, and children are birthed by surrogates. Homeschooled, no THOT influence.
This has great potential.Exactly. I have thought quite a bit about this. That is one of I’m sure many options. Gene editing technology is looking really good. I abhor the thought of the manufacture of humans in the hands of totalitarian state control though. You and I are thinking along the same or similar lines.
Firstly, I’m not attacking MGTOW. All of you who project that I’m doing so are making a straw man of my argument. I’m advocating the attack, of the systems that damaged men enough to want to create MGTOW in the first place. I’m not a bulls~~~ blue pill trojan horse, so don’t even try it. I’m saying that women need subordinated.. and not only do they need it, they WANT IT. They are unhappy when they are in dominant positions. When I speak of the survival of the species, I’m not speaking to men in MGTOW who already passed on their genes.. but their suffering and the establishment of MGTOW in the first place is the declaration of a problem. What do we do with problems? SOLVE THE F~~~ING PROBLEM. We don’t take the feminine route and just whine, and give up, and blame people. We go back to the drawing board, find out why we failed, and change our strategies. Good men should be successful, period. The few of you who attempted to use sophistry and straw man to twist my argument have failed. We’re rewarding bad behavior, so we get more of it.. IN THE LEGAL SYSTEM. So we change the laws, but the first thing that has to be done is abolishment of the welfare state. This isn’t just for your sake. This is for the sake of your sons and daughters. Don’t tell me that you do not love your families, I know better. Also, I am not advocating MARRIAGE. I’m advocating reproduction. Your conflation that I was promoting marriage is a straw man. All of the problems associated with marriage are derived from the legal system. If women didn’t have it on easy street via government handouts, they wouldn’t behave so badly. They would be humbled, subordinated. Nice attempt at sophistry though, Socrates would be proud.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Yeah… For the sake of the debate, what are your solutions, man? Fix society? How are you going to do that? How are you going to fix women? How are you going to fix government? And the hardest of them all: How are you going to make the whole men population of your country to follow you, or your advice, all the time?
Stop bulls~~~ting. You already know it is impossible, so YOU should stop telling other men what to do, because WE ALREADY KNOW what to do, and it is to LTE THIS S~~~ BURN THE F~~~ UP. We will rebuild with the ashes of society AND mankind.
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
I’m okay with the gene-passing thing, but these days a man should only do it with a surrogate. If my son wants to have a son, he can go the surrogacy route and I’ll help watch the kid in my retired years. (I was a stay-at home dad for a while once).Perhaps the future can be extended families that exclude women, and children are birthed by surrogates. Homeschooled, no THOT influence.This has great potential.
Exactly. I have thought quite a bit about this. That is one of I’m sure many options. Gene editing technology is looking really good. I abhor the thought of the manufacture of humans in the hands of totalitarian state control though. You and I are thinking along the same or similar lines.
Mankind survived before you. And it will survive after you. Who cares if you leave “a seed” or not?
Surely, mankind can and WILL survive without YOUR children.“But what if everyone decides not to have children anymore?”… Nothing. Because we will NEVER get to that point. DEal with it, there are more idiots reproducing than there are MGTOW men in the world. Face reality. I am a libertarian myself, but I do not get tangled in topics that are UTOPIC given mankind and human preferences.
More people value SECURITY OVER FREEDOM, than people who value freedom over security.
Freedom means responsibility, and majority of mankind just want their serotonin fix and that is IT, through sex, food, speed or things. Most people will trade their freedom for a tyrant for “free s~~~” than people who will tell the tyrant to f~~~ off, because without freedom, you have nothing.Look at all those socialist countries… And how their number seems to keep increasing every day… Some even going full commie, and killing a tenth of its population, or more…
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
Laugh yourself to death. I’ve already proposed the solutions, but apparently you didn’t read any of my posts with intent to understand, but rather with intent to reply. I’m not bulls~~~ting, it is not impossible. I am not “Telling people what to do”, I am making suggestions. Again, sophistry on your part by exaggerating not only my position, but my entire demeanor. I’m not making an effort to command people. I’m suggesting that we solve the problem that created MGTOW. There is nothing unreasonable about that suggestion. Surely we can have a rational conversation about this.
Unless you’re one of the “Orange Man Bad” NPC’s who gets p~~~ed when someone asks a question or makes a suggestion. If so, go ahead and get p~~~ed all you like, to no effect..
Laugh yourself to death. I’ve already proposed the solutions, but apparently you didn’t read any of my posts with intent to understand, but rather with intent to reply. I’m not bulls~~~ting, it is not impossible. I am not “Telling people what to do”, I am making suggestions. Again, sophistry on your part by exaggerating not only my position, but my entire demeanor. I’m not making an effort to command people. I’m suggesting that we solve the problem that created MGTOW. There is nothing unreasonable about that suggestion. Surely we can have a rational conversation about this.
On the contrary, I’ve read it and I know that your “solutions” is just blue pill, “conservative” bulls~~~, that has been tried and tried again.
Your “solutions” is just more of the same, it is just another pathetic attempt to “save society and mankind” from an impending doom that NEVER CAME, and NEVER WILL COME.Tell me, despite ALL the decline in birthrates, are mankind in general increasing or decreasing?
Despite the decline in some key countries, has their standard of living actually lowered?
Despite all the decline and all the propaganda, and all the solutions to increase the birth rates, to the point of BEGGING from some governments, has men and women came together and had a few more womb turds, “for the sake of mankind”, or “for the sake of the social security systems”?
Despite all your bulls~~~, you REALLY think that “going back towards masculine traditional role” will solve ANYTHING?Let me take the shortcut here: The answer to all these questions is NO.
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
Unless you’re one of the “Orange Man Bad” NPC’s who gets p~~~ed when someone asks a question or makes a suggestion. If so, go ahead and get p~~~ed all you like, to no effect..
OHHHHHHHH, he called me an “npc”…
Well, I guess I rather go play some more games, you know? Maybe I can get a good instruction on how to be a good NPC, right?
"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.
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