Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › What is this man's label for MGTOW?
This topic contains 52 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by 
ForgeHammerAnvil 4 years, 8 months ago.
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I have a question for you all, so please indulge my scenario for a second.
Imagine that tomorrow, all laws which are penalizing towards men are revoked and we truly arrive at an equal society legally.
A man (Fully aware of the MGTOW reality) desires to attempt a long-term relationship with a woman and also have children with her.
The man is not financially supporting the woman, the woman works as much as the man, they or may not share a home.
The man wants his own biological children raised by both himself and the mother.Now, we cannot call this man’s a “Traditionalist” as he is not working for the woman, he is working for himself and the child; neither does he owe anything to the woman.
Now, we cannot call this man a “NeoMasculanist”, “Feminist”, “Mangina”, “PUA” because this is no longer gynocentric.What is the name or label of this man?
Again, you owe nothing to the woman, absolutely nothing. This is the ideal end goal of the MRA movement, is it not? So, if this happen, a big IF.
Do MGTOW men call him an idiot? Do MGTOW men call this man a “breeder”? (as one MGTOW has mentioned this…) Do MGTOW men desire this outcome?
What’s your take here or am I missing something here? Is this a “new” man, something yet unlabelled, or is this still considered a Traditionalist man?
Thanks
Anonymous1I smell a trap.
But f~~~ it, lets do this.
magine that tomorrow, all laws which are penalizing towards men are revoked and we truly arrive at an equal society legally.
Just revoking the laws penalizing men would not lead us into an legally equal society. For that, on a legal standpoint, we would have to ENFORCE the laws on WOMEN the same way we enforce it on MEN. That would be a start.
A man (Fully aware of the MGTOW reality) desires to attempt a long-term relationship with a woman and also have children with her. The man is not financially supporting the woman, the woman works as much as the man, they or may not share a home. The man wants his own biological children raised by both himself and the mother.
Ok, so…?
Now, we cannot call this man’s a “Traditionalist” as he is not working for the woman, he is working for himself and the child; neither does he owe anything to the woman. Now, we cannot call this man a “NeoMasculanist”, “Feminist”, “Mangina”, “PUA” because this is no longer gynocentric.
Ok, for the sake of argument, let me agree with that, in this specific scenario, the described relationship would not be gynocentric.
What is the name or label of this man?
I don’t know. I can’t predict what other may think or do on an hypothetical almost impossible scenario. And what would that matter? Why, if things are apparently “fair” to a man, do we need label that man? How about… individual? Is this a good label for you?
Again, you owe nothing to the woman, absolutely nothing. This is the ideal end goal of the MRA movement, is it not? So, if this happen, a big IF.
Well, depends on the MRA you are talking to. The impression I have is that MRA’s are the new tradcons. Where they want women to be “women” (a.k.a children in a women’s body) so men can be “men” (a.k.a slaves). There might be MRA’s that are not like that (NAMRAALT) but I saw more then a few that are. And that doesn’t seem to be the Mgtow mentality, at least not yet. Some of us just want to be left alone, some would like to have a partner, as a true equal, with roles EQUIVALENT to the men’s role, and some goddamn empathy. You are trying to get several different INDIVIDUALS, with several different personal GOALS in life and put us all in one little box. Women, in order to see what a Mgtow would want/need, would have to ACTUALLY TALK to one and show GENUINE EMPATHY. But that’s a lot of work and would require threat man like, well, I don’t know… HUMANS?!?
Do MGTOW men call him an idiot? Do MGTOW men call this man a “breeder”? (as one MGTOW has mentioned this…) Do MGTOW men desire this outcome?
I don’t know. If you want to know that you would have to ask EVERY SINGLE MGTOW individually. You want a fit all answer? There is none.
What’s your take here or am I missing something here?
Yes, you are treating us like we have the same hive mind women have. Which we don’t. And if Mgtow ever become like that, I am pretty sure that the very men that did Mgtow gains strength would migrate to another label, and we would start again. Because we are men, and that is what men do. We build, and through discussion we grow.
Is this a “new” man, something yet unlabelled, or is this still considered a Traditionalist man?
Don’t know, how YOU would call this man? Why label him, at all?
And what is the purpose of this post anyway?
Im confused…
I would ‘label’ this ‘man’ a fantasist.
What you are saying is if a mgtow riding a nawalt unicorn while hunting for a purple squirrel is now real ….. what would we call him?
Im going with Sedrick
Im trying hard not to sniff this.
Imagine that tomorrow, all laws which are penalizing towards men are revoked and we truly arrive at an equal society legally.
That’s a big damn hypothetical you have there.
What is the name or label of this man?
Who cares? Why do you need to have a label for an imaginary potential in an utterly hypothetical scenario.
Work on fixing the laws first. Then worry about what you’re going to call things.
Anonymous1Im going with Sedrick
It is decided then. If this man EVER exist, we will call him Sedrick. Regardless of what his actual name is.
I am glad we solved that out. I was worried for a moment…
If a world comes like this, I just hope Santa Claus is coming down the chimney on December 24th.
*All your replies came in while I was making a response. But hey thanks, at least I have a word now “Sedrick” and I’ve got some census on the state of affairs in MGTOW… Wait, I’m not a detractor, read the rest of my post.
You have taken my honest questioning as if I am a detractor; this wasn’t my intent at all. I am a curious, period.
I did not classify you all as a Hive Mind, I never did. I asked for the opinion of the different men here; I have your opinion, thanks, now to the next guy and the next guy. No harm to it.
And the end of the day with your perspective this scenario is inconceivable. Good, thanks, that’s your answer, thanks.
Now to your question about what I am talking about. I look into a possible distant future where we’ve arrived at fair laws between the sexes. And all these old concepts, ways of interaction and these debates will have been things of the past.
Am I an optimist? Yes.
Is this wishful thinking? Possibly
Is this the optimal scenario? I think it is; and so I am looking into this.Do I disagree with MGTOW? No, not at all, I’ve been going on my own for about 8 years now; and all of this has weighted on my aspirations of having children in the future.
I still want children, you can fault me for that. And I am not of the opinion of going on the other side of the world to impregnate a woman, neither do I want to use technology to do so. I want my children, if this happen, to have a father and a mother. If the father and mother are separate; let it be, that’s fine. So with that, this my hypothetical scenario where the laws okay.
You may ask, we’ll, haven’t you seen what women can do and how all woman are. Yes, yes, I have. But we also have to remember that MGTOW is a philosophy vastly promoted by broken men and men who were flushed in the gutter from the system; I am one of these broken man. (I don’t want to all place you under the same umbrella, so you are all different and whatever you are, and I consider myself broken); but hey, I got to generalize at some point. But If I have to clarify this again, I am speaking only for myself and see all your MGTOWs as different men, each with different ideas on life. So with that said, Our view is vastly negative when it comes to the potential in women. I do not hate women, but I keep my interactions to a minimum when it comes to interacting with them; I usually stay at bay. So that model of the Father/Mother/Son/Daughter didn’t work for us; but it did for some.
I’m a moderate.
We’ll, I would at least hope that I can bring such topics up in MGTOW and not simply called what I mentioned above: a Traditionalist, an Idiot or a Breeder. I see a gap, an anomaly, I question, period.
And again, this is not to berate you. But ever since that Roosh V incident a few weeks back. There’s been an increase in “assertion” stance in the MGTOW community. And it seems that if we do not toe the line with the rest; we are, yes, NOT a True MGTOW.
I’m sincere in my enquiry, if that makes me a false MGTOW, then I am a false MGTOW; while living the MGTOW principles and having lived through certain horrors illustrated by many contributing members. Go figure.
People got to remember that we are again not all coming from the same place. Some of us are old, some of us are young. Some of us got divorced, some of us haven’t. Some of us are new to MGTOW and some of us have been here for a long time. And again with this new “activism” going on in MGTOW since that Roosh V incident; some of us are more active, while some of us are more laid back. I openly share my philosophy to the people I meet in my daily life, will never marry, keep my interaction with women to a minimum and aspire to be fully self-reliant, Am I not a MGTOW? We’ll, apparently, to some I am not. For those people, what can I say to you, nothing, because this is no longer a question of debate and reason; it’s a question of holding on to a growing ideology.
I have grown within this sphere; and I am questioning it. What’s wrong with that? Or are we no longer allowed to question it? We’ll because I still want children I’m not a MGTOW? Man, give me a break at the end of the day. But hey, at the moment I am no longer replying only to you BadKan, but as a general reply to everyone and what I see at the moment; and yes, I admit having faults in my understanding and yes I admit not having all the knowledge, and yes I haven’t read every material provided within MGTOW. Guilty, Guilty, Guilty.
Now with this out of the way, can my question be considered please and I not be suspected of malicious intent. Yes, maybe that does make me delusional to still aspire for something with a woman, and with all the knowledge shared here, any man would be crazy to jump on board with a woman for the long run. I’m not after this NAWALT, but sensibility in the question I don’t fully cancel out; to each his own, I do my own investigation in life, I’ve had my own experiences.
And this additional comment before I finish. Before MGTOW turns into this solid policy that you must do this otherwise you are not a True MGTOW. Remember that you have a lot of injured men who are coming here seeking relief; belittling them or placating them with this and that for not being outspoken about the issue in public. Relax people, I don’t know when it became policy that we had to participate in the world like this; MGTOW was about detaching yourself from all of this; and if you do decide to go forward out into the world and be an active agent; all power to you, I support you. But hey, I’m conflating my initial topic with something else here.
I’m just venting now.
But hey, thanks for the indulge; and if you want to berate more for pleasures sake; go ahead.
The beauty of MGTOW is that generally, no one cares what you do…
If you desire to be involved with a woman for the purposes of creating offspring, then have at it, I’d not judge you.
You can call yourself MGTOW, I’m not some sort of label enforcer, you could call yourself the Duchess of Cranberry Pancakes too for all I would care.
Just be aware that getting involved with western women is alike to tight rope walking over a lava pit. Have fun, but no one here will want to hear anything about it when she pushes you into your doom.
Ok … so we bite a little but if you’ve been around here long enough … you will see why we do it. We are being inundated with tuna lately.
One question I have for you:
Can you begin to imagine the war that would bring this sort of change?
It won’t happen peacefully as wo-men won’t give this sort of control up without a war.
Women are not able to control themselves and that’s why …. throughout history ….. they have been kept under lock & key.
Your world assumes wo-men will have some sort of psychological change where they can be equal and reasoned with.
I just don’t see that happening.
One of the reasons we advocate MGTOW is that getting married is a good way to get f~~~ed in a bad way.
Another reason is that due to the bias against men men get their kids stripped away from them by women and then the courts.
frankly my dear i don't give a damn
As long as we’re indulging in fantasy … I’d like to live aboard the Starship Enterprise.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
A few things about kids.
I speak from experience.
Kids are a mountain of responsibility and expense and time and hassles.
There are a lot of things you just dont do anymore once you have kids.Like coming home and being able to relax after work.
Taking your kids to the park as a single father and people look at you like you are a pervert stalking their kids.
Schools love to give single fathers a hard time.
A lot of teachers have gone through feminist studies classes in college and see single fathers as an easy target,because they are.
Your kid have a temper tantrum in WalMart over a toy and someone is going to think you are committing a kidnapping.
Call up a few attorneys and ask what a mans chances are of getting custody.
Women fight dirty in custody court.Like using false allegations.It happened to me.
An attorney that cost me $5ooo told me to not even try it(getting custody)(“Women fight like 10 tigers” the attorney said.One of the top attorneys in my area at that.
Being a single father is no picnic.
I have a WHOLE LOT more to say on this issue but at another time.
frankly my dear i don't give a damn
Well honestly, people here don’t care how you label yourself. You seem to want us to define your “MGHOW” level. Well we can’t and won’t. Isn’t a video game where you level up.
If you want to get married and have your wife pop out a few, go right ahead. You can say you have learned from your red pill moment and MGTOW philosophy but have chosen to go your own way. You have done the risk / benefit calculation and are sure the woman is NAWALT so you are fine. You will be back in 5 to 10 a lot poorer.
Your idea that laws will be changed and society will fixed from 50 years of infection by feminist socialism is pure fantasy.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
A few things about kids. I speak from experience. Kids are a mountain of responsibility and expense and time and hassles. There are a lot of things you just dont do anymore once you have kids.Like coming home and being able to relax after work. Taking your kids to the park as a single father and people look at you like you are a pervert stalking their kids. Schools love to give single fathers a hard time. A lot of teachers have gone through feminist studies classes in college and see single fathers as an easy target,because they are. Your kid have a temper tantrum in WalMart over a toy and someone is going to think you are committing a kidnapping. Call up a few attorneys and ask what a mans chances are of getting custody. Women fight dirty in custody court.Like using false allegations.It happened to me. An attorney that cost me $5ooo told me to not even try it(getting custody)(“Women fight like 10 tigers” the attorney said.One of the top attorneys in my area at that. Being a single father is no picnic. I have a WHOLE LOT more to say on this issue but at another time.
This I would like you to share when you’re ready.
I’ve also been through this horror show.
I would call Sedrick a sucker and wait for him to learn his lesson. The problem in this scenario is that you’re assuming equal laws and rights will fix the problem. I don’t beleive it would. Even if the courts were totaly even laws cannot change the way women act. It won’t stop them from attempting to frame men to get their way. It won’t stop them from using children as leverage since even if custody was equal they will still continue to tell your children lies in an attempt to pit them against you. It won’t stop them from cheating, don’t kid yourself on this one, they cheat. They will still treat sex like it is some kind of reward for a man obeying them. They will still expect men to do as they ask and act as if they can never be wrong… I could go on but I think you should be able to get my point. Laws cannot fix a bad attitude and selfish behavior. Mgtow are all different men and I’m sure for some that this is the ultimate goal but for me it is not. Fixing the laws would be good and I would like to see that happen but it won’t make me trust women.
Alright then, trying my best to shine some light onto the OP’s questions and concerns and in as much of a diplomatic fashion as I can here. For instance this point of view from your end in particular caught my eye:
Our view is vastly negative when it comes to the potential in women.
Potential you say..???
Now, with all due respect for your general slight support of our awareness but let me tell you a story about potential playing it through both ways to be fair here: potential that men see in women and vice versa. For the longest time roughly 70 years or longer, men always assumed the best potential in lots of women when it came to possibly falling in love with them trusting them and giving them the benefit of the doubt if you will. But guess what, for that now time is well and truly up. And why..?
Whilst I am quite sure even within this very community in here there are still a few men, who in theory could well make great potential loving and genuinely caring partners to some few women (as in NAWALTs???) or even very valuable future father figures. But when did a woman ever fall in love with a man who has got potential…? That is long gone for centuries if not millennia. To understand the very way just how high today women value any potential in a man you simply have to look no further than tinder.
I mean they always were very quick at making decisions about the top or flop of a man only exchanging a few words with him face to face back say in the 80s and even then they had to make no more effort to really get to know a man. That was it and that was then. This is now: Today the much quicker decision that plenty and an increasing number of women make and thus indicating how much the give about a man’s potential is being reduced to virtually an effortless cold swipe of their fingers on the surface of a smart phone off to the scrap heap.
And frankly thanks for showing us this kind of model of valuing someone’s potential, since we as MGTOWs are doing nothing more than to equally take this as a given of women’s nature and accordingly apply that ourselves without even having to make one move with our fingers by leaving the ordinary plantation altogether and instead doing our own thing in the name of true and real equality and ultimately we have completely given up our benefit of the doubt towards women for we’ll see how long…
People may be as optimistic as they like to be. But without any very significant and noticeable changes in our society at large why should we be the ones who change at any time soon after having taken all the blame for anything going wrong in this world…? Nope, I’d give that a pass and frankly right now is the worst timing for coming up with some hypothetical utopian visions set some time beyond most of our own deaths. Thanks for reading…
PS.: Going back slightly into nasty mode, let me present you another song for us (unfortunately so far I couldn’t find any complete version of that with the lyrics displayed in the video) “…but just don’t mug yourself that’s all, don’t mug yourself…” :
Ned T.
I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC
He would be Dolph Prime. I dunno. I mean, in that Fantasy world of yours.
Maybe, just maybe he would be a first, official “happy husband” /s.
What would you propose ? Any ideas you could share on your point ?
PS. I don’t feel a tirade about hurt feelings was necessary there, dude. Less is more. No one accused you of anything, and no need to get so emotional over nothing.
And I agree with BadKan, the smell gets worse every f~~~ing day.
You can wake me up at night and ask me, If I agree with BadKan and I will say “ragraww…yes… now..gtfo..and let me sleep.. god damnit.”.-----------
I have a question for you all, so please indulge my scenario for a second. Imagine that tomorrow, all laws which are penalizing towards men are revoked and we truly arrive at an equal society legally. A man (Fully aware of the MGTOW reality) desires to attempt a long-term relationship with a woman and also have children with her. The man is not financially supporting the woman, the woman works as much as the man, they or may not share a home. The man wants his own biological children raised by both himself and the mother. Now, we cannot call this man’s a “Traditionalist” as he is not working for the woman, he is working for himself and the child; neither does he owe anything to the woman. Now, we cannot call this man a “NeoMasculanist”, “Feminist”, “Mangina”, “PUA” because this is no longer gynocentric. What is the name or label of this man? Again, you owe nothing to the woman, absolutely nothing. This is the ideal end goal of the MRA movement, is it not? So, if this happen, a big IF. Do MGTOW men call him an idiot? Do MGTOW men call this man a “breeder”? (as one MGTOW has mentioned this…) Do MGTOW men desire this outcome? What’s your take here or am I missing something here? Is this a “new” man, something yet unlabelled, or is this still considered a Traditionalist man? Thanks
I am so temped to call the guy a Cypher, after the movie, The Matrix, because he apparently knows what it is like to take the Red Pill, but he just can’t handle it, and he wants to back into the Matrix and continue to fool himself. Cypher, in the movie, wanted to go back into the Matrix, with a nice cushy life that the Matrix would give him. You could say he maybe has gone into relapse.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
Guys he’s trolling us, it sounds like the someone who has been here before. If you want children and want to get married you’re not a MGTOW. You can’t be going your own way. You can be an MRA if that suits you. You can go to avoiceformen.com .
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
Guys he’s trolling us, it sounds like the someone who has been here before. If you want children and want to get married you’re not a MGTOW. You can’t be going your own way. You can be an MRA if that suits you. You can go to avoiceformen.com .
Out of this I would have a question worth asking though: If the laws change, and the playing field was level, and women ended up showing more respect, and you didn’t get hell in relationships, and the chance of hell due to a breakup wasn’t there, would anyone who is a MGTOW now go and get married? An argument said of MGTOWs, which likely of an MRA category, is that if the environment were only different, then guys would stop being MGTOWs, get wives and have families. Some have argued MOST MGTOWs would stop being MGTOWs if the world changed. Or, is MGTOW such that it doesn’t matter what the world can offer, no way you go back, under any circumstance, because the advantages of MGTOW outweigh everything else?
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
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