Universal Basic Income. Waddya think?

[SolidParticipant 7520]

Humans evolved because we had to, just that. Remove natural predators, and we become “soft”, remove living in the wild, and we become “softer”, the last nail in the coffin is to remove meritocracy, so anything that will force the better to keep going, won’t exist anymore.

Society will be filled with parasites. 16k a year ? If someone save some money, have a house, car, and everything else, he can retire at age of 30. Who will pay this man for other 30 years playing video games ? Considering that he started at work when turned 18, and stopped at 30, it give us 12 years of contribution. It will need a hell out of people to work to maintain this kind of society, and those who work, will be basically slaves.

[RomulusParticipant 4667]

I am not a socialist and I am generally very conservative. But I think the question is….how do the spoils get divided. Automation will make someone or some businesses lots and lots of money. Others will be devastated by it. So, who gets to share in this pot of money?

Perhaps you believe Bill Gates actually earned his $60 billion dollars. What if I told you he basically organized software that had been developed with taxpayers money at DARPA and at research labs funded with federal dollars. Or that he used some of that money to by up or freeze out competition. Or that his company and many like it have hordes of lobbyist that stay on top of and shape legislation. I can’t do that on a salary.

At some point when 1 percent of the citizens own 50 percent of the wealth, we may want to ask a few questions about the laws and the economic system that oks this.

How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being.

[Eric LauderParticipant 12043]

Jan Sobieski wrote:

Not a fan, but people got to eat. When automation continues to remove jobs…

This.
It’s unavoidable due automation.
But it must be combined with a serious stop to immigration, otherwise we would be flooded by people arriving in hope to get the UBI (and also then send a portion of it in their country).

SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.

[Eric LauderParticipant 12043]

Romulus wrote:

I am not a socialist and I am generally very conservative. But I think the question is….how do the spoils get divided. Automation will make someone or some businesses lots and lots of money. Others will be devastated by it. So, who gets to share in this pot of money?

Perhaps you believe Bill Gates actually earned his $60 billion dollars. What if I told you he basically organized software that had been developed with taxpayers money at DARPA and at research labs funded with federal dollars. Or that he used some of that money to by up or freeze out competition. Or that his company and many like it have hordes of lobbyist that stay on top of and shape legislation. I can’t do that on a salary.

At some point when 1 percent of the citizens own 50 percent of the wealth, we may want to ask a few questions about the laws and the economic system that oks this.

Exactly.
Economical system aren’t defined by their “morality” or “philosophy”: they’re defined by their efficiency.
As long a nation is wealthy, stable, growing, with few crime and few social problems, then I don’t care about what kind of economical system they use.
Socialism in USSR was bad because it provided a lesser standard of living while also limiting personal freedom. But that end almost 30 years ago, the world is going to be challenged by automation now, the whole premise is changing.

SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

From what I have read, Steve Jobs did something similar to that of Gates in that much of the technology was already there for his early products, but he saw the potential for it by using it more effectively or adapting it for broader use.

We went through this with the Robber Barons of the late 1800s, who controlled much of the US economy. Cornell University was founded on the money from Wisconsin timber.
Sooner or later the pain becomes too great and there is change as happened with the Trust Busters.

[TrailbossParticipant 1844]

Good points all….the downward spiral continues. F~~~ it: Drive on!

An educated, armed populace cannot be enslaved.

[RomulusParticipant 4667]

From what I have read, Steve Jobs did something similar to that of Gates in that much of the technology was already there for his early products, but he saw the potential for it by using it more effectively or adapting it for broader use.

Steve Jobs did exactly that. He “borrowed” the GUI from government research labs in the SF area. In the early days of the internet, there was this quaint notion that information wanted to be free.

Many of the early development of computers and then later, the internet, didn’t patent their invention because it went against the zeitgeist of the time. Dynamic linking, the mouse, GUI, multi-computer links, sending pictures over phone/electronic lines, all developed by taxpayers money or by individuals that didn’t wish to protect those advances by patents.

There are structural biases built in to our economic system that skew in favor of capital and away from labor. (That age old battle). I do believe that the persons that organized the capital, hired the labor and took the initial risk…….should get to keep a whole big chunk of what ever money is made. But the folks doing the labor should get a decent cut too.

How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being.

[Puffin StuffParticipant 24979]

Wouldn’t it be nice…

#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.

[MonkParticipant 17056]

Look at what the welfare state has done to Britain.

Any further questions?

[BoBParticipant 823]

Meh. Up the bottom amount of money from 0 to XX,XXX, prices of goods and services will inflate and you’ll still only be able to afford what you could afford today.

Giving people money won’t save people from the effect of automation. People will simply have to find other jobs. The business that figures out how to use that large basket of unused labor will make a ton of money.

[Struck OutParticipant 468]

Jan Sobieski wrote:

Not a fan, but people got to eat. When automation continues to remove jobs…

It will happen eventually…Just a matter of when we’re automated as a society to the point where it will be deemed necessary. Think Wall-E.

"Always learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself."--Groucho Marx.

[GnosticParticipant 2491]

It sounds great until you run out of other people money.

Or the inflation make UBI the new zero.

We already have universal basic income, it is zero. Lets say a person need $1000 to survive and now he is handed $1000 is UBI. But the resource in the world is limited no matter how many zero you add to the bank note, so everyone have an extra $1000 to pay for goods and inflation will make you need $2000 to survive.

So now $1000 is the new zero. You can increase UBI to $2000 then $2000 will be the new zero. repeat the loop and you have starving billionaires like Zimbabwe

https://www.mazech.com/zimbabwe

You need a big slave class to generate enough resource for the consumer class to prevent inflation. I see an argument that automation / robot will be the new slave class so UBI can work. Well there will be owner, inventor, producers, maintainer of the robots so why they would slave away while others enjoy the fruits of their labor?

It will be just like alimony, but paying to the rest of society. One day someone will decide to use the nuke button to reset humanity cause his robot maintain the weapons and it will be many empire of slave robots with the robot master and his friends and family.

Robots as a slave class can work, if all of humanity are the creator, maintainer and updater of robots and have the vastness of space to mine resource from. But in that case why need UBI? Everyone can get their own resource without being a parasite to anyone else.

There is no magic in MGTOW, just recognition of the truth and logical decision how to avoid dangers. The red pill is but the truth, it is no magical potion. Do not think in this modern world men have no longer have natural enemies, men are prey to women and government.

[StargazerParticipant 12505]

In theory, the notion of working toward a utopian society where nobody has to do labor in order to survive sounds good. Paying for people’s basic needs using the dividends of our investment in technology when they are no longer able to produce anything of value any more due to the overwhelming efficiency of that technology also sounds promising.

But this isn’t theory.

In reality, we already know that when you give someone something they haven’t earned, they not only do not respect or preserve it but also resent you for the dependence they feel as a result of you giving it to them. They take what you give them, destroy it, then come kill you for your charity.

No basic income. Until we have matter replication technology, nothing is free and taking something from one person who created it to give to another person who has done nothing to earn it is simply theft.

Universal basic income is nothing more than socialism with a pretty name.

[Secret Agent MGTOWParticipant 22559]

To pay for women and their chads? No thanky.

Women want everything, but want responsibility and accountability for nothing.

[Secret Agent MGTOWParticipant 22559]

Automation also creates jobs. Maintenance, service repair. Freight. Construction, installation.

Women want everything, but want responsibility and accountability for nothing.

[AttonParticipant]

Much much higher taxes.

A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!

[QuellParticipant 2538]

We already have a Universal Basic income in America… it’s called Welfare. There are roughly 35% of Americans on some kind of government assistance constituting 110 million people. (2012)

In reality Welfare exists to keep the very poor, unmotivated, sick and troubled people from rioting or causing strife. Imagine if all Welfare was eliminated for those who just don’t want to work? Mass panic in the streets.

Welfare is really a way to “pay off” undesirables from causing problems with the rest of society. They live in on the other side of town or go to the poor school. Every major city has a ghetto of some sort. You can’t destroy them or kick them out. You can’t lock them up. The only way you can deal with unmotivated messed up folks is to contain them.

With Universal Basic Income it would work the same way. The government would pay people not to riot. What you see though with welfare systems (take for example Indian Reservations) is high levels of drugs, alcohol abuse, sexual crimes and poverty. Idle hands are the devil’s workshop. Indians on those reservations drank themselves to an early grave because they had no purpose.

If a man has no purpose or goal he can’t truly enjoy the highs and lows of life. A steak will only taste supreme if you have it once in awhile. If you eat steak every day for a year it loses its allure. I’m not sure how you would entertain a population to do nothing with their lives but hang out all day.

[DarkRyuParticipant 2354]

A better solution to UBI is to just get rid of money completely. These asshole corporations that start using automation for everything are free to do that, but for every burger they sell for a profit, they have to provide one for free to someone that’s unemployed. That ratio between free/profit will increase as more and more people become unemployable. The incentive to work will be that those that are unemployable will be stuck at a lower level of living (think community housing).

Automation will eventually make the REAL cost of everything $0 (or close to it). When making a burger requires NO human intervention and the machines can fix themselves, why should the burger cost anything? The meat will be artificially grown, transported, cooked, and delivered all by automation. Once everything is automated, the machines can provide all of us a better standard of living. Want a better standard of living? Don’t f~~~ing breed. For everyone that breeds lowers the standard of living for themselves and everyone else. The limit will be the earth’s resources themselves, divided evenly between every living person. There will still be a desire to reach other planets in order to increase the lifestyle of everyone living on the planet. But honestly, once everyone’s basic living needs are met, who gives a s~~~ if you live in a mansion?

[DarkRyuParticipant 2354]

Quell wrote:

I’m not sure how you would entertain a population to do nothing with their lives but hang out all day.

It’s called technology. People already spend more time dicking around the internet (mostly social media) than working! Combine the internet with gaming, TV, and those stupid smartphone apps and you’ve got enough entertainment to keep someone occupied for 100 years easy. I wouldn’t worry about the unemployed causing problems so long as they have a good computer, internet, a big TV, and a gaming console or two. That may not work for older folks, but people 30 and younger would be just fine.

[sidecarParticipant 35860]

Eric Lauder wrote:

Economical system aren’t defined by their “morality” or “philosophy”: they’re defined by their efficiency.

No system that rewards indolence while punishing productivity will ever be efficient.

[Author]

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