The Alien Conspiracy Thread

[Jack HarperParticipant 2863]

Raj wrote:

Billy&The Cloneasaurus wrote:

Here’s the problem: we have no idea what the odds of this event occurring are.

Agreed, the simple statistical argument is not proof in and of itself.

However, I will say this, “life” in my opinion, is not that complicated.

Living organism are composed of cells, exhibit homeostasis, grow, and reproduce. The simplest building blocks of life are easily created in a laboratory setting. I don’t think it is as common or precious as everyone makes it out to be. Even viruses exhibit several of these characteristics, albeit without the cell, hence, not considered, “living.”

Even prions which are nothing more than amino acid strings (proteins) “reproduce.” I believe they even lack DNA.

Organisms, even complex ones, beyond single celled organisms, exist in some extreme environments here on earth. Below freezing, above boiling, highly toxic ares, etc. There are organisms who derive their energy from metallic ions, the sun, each other, and many other energy sources. So I agree while we can not put odds on life, I have to say that simple, single celled organisms are not these incredibly complex things. Not only this but live is incredibly resilient, I feel it could easily spread through out the galaxy quite easily, in fact, I could propose a few methods in which humans could begin colonizing planets several light years away.

But I wouldn’t wish that on anyone…

“Life finds a way.”

[Billy&The CloneasaurusParticipant]

@raj

Life is extremely complicated. Even single cell life. And yes, life is extremely resilient. The simplest beginnings of life would be the simplest forms possible. This proto-life wouldn’t be recognized as life as we know it today. A bacteria or virus (or even a prion) is FAR more complicated than what would have formed by chance to get life going.

Once this proto-life is formed by chance, evolution can craft very complex and resilient structures, through natural selection. That isn’t the issue here.

The issue is the odds proto-life can be formed by chance. We don’t know how rare this is. Creating amino acids in a beaker like Miller & Urey did says nothing about how easy it is to create life. What they did was show that there is nothing “organic” about these molecules-they can be formed spontaneously, in the absence of life. They certainly did NOT create life by chance in a beaker. We could never expect them to. It’s certainly too rare an event to expect scientists to observe it in a lab experiment.

We need to know the odds of any single “dice roll” being successful to answer this question. We don’t know. Saying there are lots of dice rolls doesn’t mean anything without this crucial piece of information.

The only thing that invalidates this argument is if there are infinite dice rolls. If that’s the case then life is inevitable.

Assuming a finite universe, it’s logically possible we are alone.

You seem to be arguing that you don’t think the odds of a successful “dice roll” are that infinitesimally low. Therefore, there must be life out there given the staggering number of “dice roll” attempts. In this, I totally agree. I don’t think the probability of life formation is THAT low. But, if we’re honest, we have to say it’s an intuition, and not based in logic.

The answer, is no.

[SolidParticipant 7520]

Just commenting to get the updates, this topic is really interesting.
I never saw anything, but I’m interested in the topic.

[RajParticipant 472]

Billy&The Cloneasaurus wrote:

The only thing that invalidates this argument is if there are infinite dice rolls. If that’s the case then life is inevitable.

Assuming a finite universe, it’s logically possible we are alone.

Agree, while the universe is expanding, its most definitely not infinite. So you’re right in saying we can’t use this as the basis for the existence of life.

Billy&The Cloneasaurus wrote:

You seem to be arguing that you don’t think the odds of a successful “dice roll” are that infinitesimally low. Therefore, there must be life out there given the staggering number of “dice roll” attempts. In this, I totally agree. I don’t think the probability of life formation is THAT low. But, if we’re honest, we have to say it’s an intuition, and not based in logic.

Yes, this is my hypothesis, that primordial life, while very uncommon, is not some absurd statistical anomaly. I didn’t mean to oversimplify life, however, a lot of people hold up life as some magical, incomprehensible phenomenon that can never be understood and is only created from the whims of the magic man in the sky.

I however am a huge proponent of the belief that there was intelligent life that evolved on our planet well before humans. Like I stated in an earlier post, the earth is OLD, given the advancements of humans in 10,000 years, I feel if there are more advanced beings on this planet, they’ve been here a long time and are probably from here.

I was once a great king, I believe you were too. I hope you believe in me, I hope you believe in you.

[Billy&The CloneasaurusParticipant]

Raj wrote:

Agree, while the universe is expanding, its most definitely not infinite

This has nothing to do with whether the universe is finite or infinite.

The visible galaxies are accelerating away from each other-this is what expansion means.

The problem is, we can only see to the visible horizon of the universe, owing to the finite speed of light. We don’t know what’s beyond there. It could be infinite beyond there. The experts don’t know, “most definitely”.

I agree that we don’t need sky daddy to explain the complexities of life- not because it isn’t staggeringly complex, but because natural selection can do this on its own.

I however am a huge proponent of the belief that there was intelligent life that evolved on our planet well before humans.

Again, it’s a belief, as you stated above ^^^^
What evidence do you have for this? Dolphins are intelligent. I assume you mean human-like intelligence? Please show me 🙂

I feel if there are more advanced beings on this planet, they’ve been here a long time and are probably from here.

You “feel” this is the case. Sorry man, thought we were talking science here. If I wanted to talk feels, I’d get a gf.

The answer, is no.

[RajParticipant 472]

Billy&The Cloneasaurus wrote:

This has nothing to do with whether the universe is finite or infinite.

If the universe continues expanding, then it would be infinite…

Billy&The Cloneasaurus wrote:

You “feel” this is the case. Sorry man, thought we were talking science here.

Yes, Billy, this is how science is advanced. With a thought/ belief which leads to an inference about the physical world, a hypothesis, that can be tested. Then after the collection of data we determine if said hypothesis was correct or not.

The only reason I brought this up, is that you often hear about “aliens” but you never hear a related assertion about the possibility of intelligent (yes Billy, smarter than dolphins…) beings with an origin of Earth.

I enjoy this topic, it was just a related area that I always like to bring up during the “what if aliens,” discussion. This is obviously something that like religion, in that it is a hot subject, and most of the the speculation about it lies in the realm of science fiction but yet needs to bridge the gap into physical sciences before it gains any serious notoriety.

I was once a great king, I believe you were too. I hope you believe in me, I hope you believe in you.

[Billy&The CloneasaurusParticipant]

Raj wrote:

If the universe continues expanding, then it would be infinite…

Huh?

So…if the universe is finite, but keeps expanding, it would be infinite, after an infinite period of time?

Obviously. Again, not my argument.

It could be finite OR infinite, regardless of this expansion fact. It’s irrelevant.

Yes, Billy, this is how science is advanced.

[/quote]

Thanks, Raj, for the science 101 lesson, and the condescension. My years and years of training and experience in this area failed to give me the definition of “hypothesis”. Oh wait. That was grade 6 or 7. My bad.

Please refute my arguments. You haven’t said a thing about them man.

yes Billy, smarter than dolphins…) beings with an origin of Earth.

Again, tone down the condescension and arrogance.

So you made an “assertion”. You made a “hypothesis”. Evidence?? Show us what supports this view. Any idiot can make an assertion and call it a hypothesis. That’s not science dude.

The answer, is no.

[743 roadmasterParticipant]

How about I toss a wrench in the mix and say that we are the aliens,…………and more then adequate evidence is all around the globe to prove the point. However, lets just stick to the Americas. More because the history makes it interesting. Late 1400’s early 1500’s an advanced people find a place populated with stone age people and go about taking it over. Now I am not saying the natives were stupid or anything like that,….but when the English, Spanish and French came to take over the land. No wheel, No copper let alone bronze or iron. Basic hand tools and club/spear was the weapon of choice, with a few bows tossed in for good measure.

So, you have all of this stone work with an edge that would need at least iron or steel tools to make.

Now it would be amazing if only one existed, but there are 1000’s.
Then we have all of these complex building walls

Able to withstand quakes. Not just a few walls here and there but towns.
Olmec Heads, many miles from the quarry site, Nesco lines, the list goes on.

How about a theory
Genesis 5 22 to 27
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
Ok, lets say at that time one matured at say 50 years old, after that had only one child every 10 years. What would you have in no time flat?

Ok, having a very advanced civilization. Very long life. Over population. What do you do? Expand. Plant with huge amounts of natural resources. Why not set up cities.

mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/

[Manspread MansplainerParticipant 4222]

I have seen UFOs and so have people I know. Look up on a clear sky. You may notice a star that moves too fast for an airplane, too erratic for a satellite. Then they shoot off at extreme speed.

A friend told me he saw 5 objects flying in formation through a storm cloud that were not like any aircraft. This was on an air force weapons range (we were contractors). I let him share his experience making no mention that I wasn’t surprised.

Try it! Look for yourself.

If women ran the world = It would become the shithole you are seeing.

[bstoffParticipant 4873]

Absolutely anything is possible.
Things far beyond our level of understanding.

No matter what the odds are, physical conditions of humans today in comparison, etc., nothing matters when you consider the possibilities of an advanced race of beings, no matter where they come from.

I don’t believe any ants have gotten together on their online MGTOW forums to discuss whether we humans are real or not. I’m sure some of them have stories of being abducted and burned with a giant magnifying glass. Imagine the doubt and ridicule the other ants spewed on those poor suckers.

It’s all about perspective.

[mellow81Participant 105]

I don’t believe aliens would ever visit the Earth. Why? They probably have the technology to see interactions amongst humans on Earth. Once they see how women behave, they hightail it out of Earth’s atmosphere.

[SandalsParticipant 4254]

Billy&The Cloneasaurus wrote:

This argument sounds correct on the surface. Everything in me also believes it to be true. It’s possible, on the basis of logic, that we actually are alone, however.

When talking about the universe, we are talking about big numbers. Most humans cannot comprehend big numbers, and one really has to study quite a bit of math to get at the subject.

Given the size of the universe and the number of stars and celestial bodies, the odds are nearly impossible that we are the only life form. There is most definitely life all over the universe.

PistolPete wrote:

how did they leave their planet for another planet 5000 years ago

Jordan Maxwell says their planet swings around our solar system every so often.

[SandalsParticipant 4254]

Billy&The Cloneasaurus wrote:

Assuming a finite universe, it’s logically possible we are alone.

It is not logically possible we are alone. Possible, yes, but not logical. Finite or infinite doesn’t matter at this point, since we have enough observable evidence.

Raj wrote:

while the universe is expanding, its most definitely not infinite.

The universe is not necessarily expanding. I am not even sure that concept even makes sense.

Who told you the universe is “most definitely” no infinite? I wasn’t aware that physicists even believe int he concept of “definite” when talking about their craft. You have some knowledge no one else has? Please share.

[SandalsParticipant 4254]

bstoff wrote:

I don’t believe any ants have gotten together on their online MGTOW forums to discuss whether we humans are real or not. I’m sure some of them have stories of being abducted and burned with a giant magnifying glass

That’s why I say if there are aliens, we are in trouble. They will only harvest us V-style.

[Cú ChulainnParticipant 3910]

A friend of mine likes to build mechanical models and little inventing projects in his spare time. He invited me over to his place a while back to show me his latest contraption.

He opened his garage door and inside he had a full working model of our solar system, it filled the whole garage space. It had all the planets revolving around the sun perfectly, even had little moons spinning around their corresponding planets. “Brilliant!” says I, “that must’ve taken you years to build!”
“Nah”, says he “I just threw a grenade into my garage, came back a week later, and this was here”.

[SandalsParticipant 4254]

Cú Chulainn wrote:

“Nah”, says he “I just threw a grenade into my garage, came back a week later, and this was here”.

Are you steering this Scientific Alien discussion toward a religious discussion? That’s misdirection. Can’t people just talk about aliens intelligently and scientifically and philosophically without constantly being infiltrated and misdirected with organized religion? Just leave us alone, please.

I mean that seriously, no sarcasm there.

[Cú ChulainnParticipant 3910]

Not really. The question could be WHY are aliens here? If they don’t use the same technology we have, and that’s doubtful, then its possible they ‘engineered’ us. Or even engineered more than just us.

Look at the way our technology has taken us out into the cosmos – human beings have only just reached the moon. The Galileo probe just passed beyond the solar system. Our technological evolution needs a giant step or a new discovery to get us out to Star Trek levels.

Space is the most inhospitable environment to planet based beings like us. A few months of weightlessness and we’re basically f~~~ed, weaklings. Even if we reach light speed you’ll need generations going out, living, giving birth, and dying in space.

Aliens may have gotten around that, worm holes were mentioned. Kubrick via Arthur C Clarke gave us a stunning vision of what is entirely possible. I’ve deliberately left out G-d from this discussion, its not a healthy subject around here unfortunately. But I can’t think about the questions – Do they exist? Are they here? Without thinking about why are they here? How are they here? Whats the reason if they are? That naturally leads on to questions about us, our place in the cosmos and the nature between any intelligent aliens and us. If they are here, they are already SUPERIOR to us. Apologies if you think I’m swinging this to some religious thread, not my intention. I’ll respect that. Cheers.

[Jim01Participant 6678]

I am pretty open minded about all of this – considering how big the Universe is, it is an absolute certainty that life is somewhere out there

whether it has come to Earth is the question. I know C-Pig put up a thread about this a while back and said about some of the things he has seen around a military base

it wouldn’t surprise me if what is happening is like the second episode of X-Files called Deep Throat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Throat_(The_X-Files_episode)

[DemotedSpectator 523]

The Top 10 Reasons I Don’t Trust NASA

Why are they faking so much s~~~, and never showing us the real images.

[DemotedSpectator 523]

There are really using looking glass portals and have been since the 1940’s

@ 1:57:50 Space fleet 1 day to get to Mars

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