Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Might not be MGTOW anymore
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Gnostic 2 years, 7 months ago.
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This is such a blue pill PUA thing to write. I thought OP just got hacked, since I remember him being a poster for awhile here and didn’t think it was tuna.
But PUAs always have this attitude everyone was also a loser like them, fat, unemployed, bad hygiene etc
Absolutely nowhere in my post did I suggest that people who are unemployed and fat were losers. Nowhere in my post did I say that I was ever a loser.
You are trying to read a moral judgement where there was none.
". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée
Anonymous3This is such a blue pill PUA thing to write. I thought OP just got hacked, since I remember him being a poster for awhile here and didn’t think it was tuna.
But PUAs always have this attitude everyone was also a loser like them, fat, unemployed, bad hygiene etc
Absolutely nowhere in my post did I suggest that people who are unemployed and fat were losers. Nowhere in my post did I say that I was ever a loser.
You are trying to read a moral judgement where there was none.
See below.
Maybe you’re right though. Maybe I do read a moral judgment in there. Because I do think unemployed, fat people are losers, and especially thirsty men that finally hit the gym and got a job telling me that I am like them.
I’ve been in shape my entire life, am highly educated, and work a high level white collar career. Yeah, I don’t like getting grouped in with people like you, honestly. Speak for yourself is all.
Hello,
Some of you may remember me. I used to post a lot. If I don’t anymore, it’s not because I’ve become tired of the community; it’s simply because I now have a full-time job and have very little free time now.
When I was unemployed (and had time to browse these forums), I was, like you, frustrated about women, about how they treated me, and the like. I limited my interactions with them, thinking that it wasn’t worth it, that I had more important s~~~ to worry about, and focused on myself, my hobbies, and finding employment.
Now I have a job I really like that pays me well, a mere six months of going to the gym regularly has done wonders to my health, my appearance, my physique, my strength, my mood, I feel that my life is really good and I have a lot to look forward to. The only thing that I feel is missing is that there is/are no woman/women in my life.
Everyone, both men and women, has his defenses up, and for good reason: there are a lot of horrible people who will use your vulnerability to take advantage of you. But, deep down, we all want to bond with other human beings, and you can bond only when both people are vulnerable to each other. But if we keep our defenses up all the time, we can’t bond. No one wants to be the first to be vulnerable, because it’s terrifying! I’m hoping that if I express my vulnerability to women, in the long run, I’ll eventually find a few who want to drop their defenses with me when they see I’m dropping my defenses with them.
I used to hate the idea of approaching random women and hitting on them; I knew they get an ego boost from it, and I didn’t want to give them my attention if I wasn’t getting laid from it. But I realized: I want to find someone, so I must take the initiative. What do I care if some bitches I’m incompatible with get an ego boost or find me creepy? Since when do I care what women think of me?
You might be saying that showing direct interest in a woman is not a good strategy, that women want men who mistreat them and ignore them. That may be true, it might even be true for most women, but I’m not looking to attract most women; that would be unrealistic and a waste of time and effort. I’m trying to find just a few I’m compatible with—and I’m sure they exist, just because there are 3.6 billion of them or so. Women who get off on guys ignoring them and treating them like crap deserve to end up with guys that ignore them and treat them like crap. I have no interest in that drama.
You might also say that you shouldn’t give your attention until a woman has earned it i.e., treat your attention the way women treat sex. To that I respond: you, out of all people, should know that women take the initiative in absolutely f~~~ing nothing (with the exception of divorce and child support). If men didn’t do everything, nothing would happen. If I want women in my life, I need to take the initiative, because women sure as s~~~ aren’t going to.
Anonymous18@phoenix, I see your point.
OP – I do emphathize with your hormones doing the trickery. You do need to gather more data points before you can graph AWALT.
Its a linear correlation. R = 0.978
I do not expect you to extrapolate.
I still appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective and having the courage to explain your viewpoints.
Please see this as a bridge to when you need to come back and shake our hands.
Personally, I take no pride in being right over a man’s misfortunes.
Disasters rarely develop overnight so keep us posted.
Listen to your guts and know you are always welcome to ask us our opinions or advice. Or that we were wrong all along.
Best wishes to you brother.
What do you think? Does my desire for women, my initiative to satisfy that desire, my optimism in the outcome, and my belief I can eventually find a woman/women whose values and desires align with mine, and that we can enrich each other’s lives, mean I’m not MGTOW anymore?
Yep, pretty much. It’s not the desire, that’s natural. Going out of your way to satisfy it isn’t an automatic disqualifier either, though most would say it’s a waste of time, money and effort.
No, it’s the belief that you can find a woman who will suit your values. What you will find is a woman who pretends to suit your values until it suits hers to go pretend to suit someone else’s.
Hypergamy is a real thing. You get a girl who can get you and she’s going to believe she’s good enough to get someone better than you. And if she opts not to, it will eat her up inside to the point that she hates you.
She will either cheat or demand that you accept a “polyamorous” arrangement… and prior to that, she will have a half dozen orbiter “friends” she’ll use as backups and to try to keep you in line.
My conditions for a unicorn?
1) Total loyalty. This means she’s with me when she’s with me or she’s with family or she’s with friends who we have together deemed are good influences and she must put down her phone when we’re together unless she’s taking a photo. She must not flirt with other men or give them reason by her dress or actions to cause them to flirt with her.
2) Total disclosure. She can have no social media accounts, guy friends, ex lovers or yoga instructors that she sees or talks to without me being present and fully aware of the content of the messaging.
3) I have veto power over all life-changing decisions. From job changes to haircuts, everything has to be cleared with me so that I can monitor her mental and emotional status.
Oh, I’m not jealous, I’m just guarding my mate. If she isn’t okay with this, then I can’t trust her and she isn’t a unicorn. If you can’t find a girl who allows this, then meets a half dozen other criteria that come after it, and you let her into your life anyway, you’re going to get screwed in the end.
That’s not MGTOW in a nutshell, exactly, but I think the healthy awareness, acceptance and avoidance of entrapping interaction with women is.
Or let’s put it this way… if you’re pursuing women, taking them out on dates on your dime, making no demands on their loyalty or exclusivity and f~~~ing them without condoms and/or a vasectomy, you can’t POSSIBLY be a MGTOW… not because it violates some arbitrary rule but because it aggressively invites the yolk/saddle that takes away your ability to be anything but a servant to a woman and her children.
I was, like you, frustrated about women,
I don’t know where you got the idea I’m frustrated about women.
you realize that there was absolutely nothing to be afraid of.
Nor the idea I’ve ever been afraid of them.
The only thing that I feel is missing is that there is/are no woman/women in my life.
And you think that’s missing something?
But I realized: I want to find someone,
And that wanting is the problem, not the women. It will not serve you well.
Anonymous3@phoenix, I see your point.
OP – I do emphathize with your hormones doing the trickery. You do need to gather more data points before you can graph AWALT.
Its a linear correlation. R = 0.978
I do not expect you to extrapolate.
I still appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective and having the courage to explain your viewpoints.
Please see this as a bridge to when you need to come back and shake our hands.
Personally, I take no pride in being right over a man’s misfortunes.
Disasters rarely develop overnight so keep us posted.
Listen to your guts and know you are always welcome to ask us our opinions or advice. Or that we were wrong all along.
Best wishes to you brother.
Yes initially I actually wrote a harsher post, but then I read KM’s post and OP is only in his early-20s. I’m a lot older than that, and so I would rather show some more understanding and back things off a bit.
Young people are a little foolish and inexperienced, and tend to think they’ve figured everything out on their own and nobody else has thought of it or done it before them. I was young too, and I remember enough to know it was true for me as well.
But the truth is, most of us older guys already did everything and more. It was a different world that we grew up in, without the internet, without a lot of the stuff people take for granted now. You had to study and research things on your own, and had to be way more self sufficient and figure things out. No GPS to bail you out, no internet connection and access to wikipedia. At times in this previous world, there was also more brotherhood where if a man saw another man in a tight spot, everyone would help out. And not for material gain either, but just because it’s what everyone did for each other because you could always have trouble yourself.
The world is way different now. In many ways younger people are very sheltered and incapable. And they do this on a more public setting too, where their every move is broadcasted—often intentionally and foolishly by them.
OP does need to go and experience for himself. But he should still have the respect and understanding to take wisdom into account from older generations and not just outright dismiss us or preach to us. That is actually the only lesson I want him to take and keep in mind at this point. His lessons with women will have to come with experience.
But again, the kid is in his early-20s. At his age, I was in college and I was approaching girls and they’d give me their numbers and every semester I’d have an entire drawer full of scrap paper with their phone numbers on it. And very often they’d approach and flirt with me, and I’d tend to get gifts from them, and they’d do my homework for me. Even so, or perhaps because of this, my understanding of women was very accelerated and reached a much higher stage than the vast majority of men every do. It is probably the best time to learn in your teens and early through mid-20s.
Rockmaninoff-
Good luck with your journey brother.
You have probably picked up a lot of truth around here that will serve you well going forward.
I still interact with women. I play golf sometimes with one lady. I watch old movies with another woman. But I don’t buy them anything.
And my tolerance of BS is close to zero.
There is no way I would cohabitate with a lady.
And my chance of getting married again is zero.
I admit to sometimes screwing with their heads. Sometimes I’ll dress affluently and flash money just to play with the gold-diggers.Have fun on your journey. Be careful.
And don’t underestimate the ability of a crazy lady to ruin your life. Good luck.Value your freedom and hand no power over to a woman, make that mistake and you will end up in a really bad place.
A MGTOW is a man who is not a woman's bitch!
Anonymous43Why are we arguing and trying to save this guy.
Go your own way and go with God.
Your way ain’t my way.
I’ll probably get flogged for this…
-It’s my general understanding through experience, that when a man writes more than a concise paragraph or two about his problems, he is in mangina mode. Maybe in just a temporary breakdown, or at least in a state of deep positional insecurity. Granted I didn’t even read the whole post, I glossed over sections. BC… well, I’m a man. I read instructions completely, not sad little boy whinings that pretend to be advice.
-Sorry for your loss(of manhood), and good luck unicorn hunting.Beer & BBQ
Why are we arguing and trying to save this guy.
Why indeed?
Some men need to learn their lesson the hard way.
Some men never do.
But that is not our problem.
Best wishes to you man. It won’t work out like you think, but enough people have already told you fire is hot.
When you need burn cream it’ll be here.
I only have one thing to add. What if the girl you meet that’s perfect for you sustains the illusion for 20 years? How do you get that time back?
Hating women takes time. So does trying to find one that will love you the way you want. How much of your precious life are you willing to let your biology dictate before you walk your own path again?
I failed to realize in my youth that I was the prize. I was going to work. I was going to earn. Little did I realize that due to feminism, that no longer meant I had to share. Road soon, Desert after.
Anonymous11You’re young. Take the things you’ve learned from here and venture forth into that meat grinder.
Just never lose sight of AWALT, or forget that they are excellent manipulators.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed….
Hello,
Some of you may remember me. I used to post a lot. If I don’t anymore, it’s not because I’ve become tired of the community; it’s simply because I now have a full-time job and have very little free time now.
When I was unemployed (and had time to browse these forums), I was, like you, frustrated about women, about how they treated me, and the like.
This is the main problem here.
Too many self-proclaimed “MGTOWs” are actually losers who can’t get laid.
A man is a “loser who can’t get laid” when he WISH to get laid but he cannot get laid.
It’s very different when a man don’t get laid because he doesn’t care about getting laid: he’s a winner, the very opposite of a loser.Now I have a job I really like that pays me well, a mere six months of going to the gym regularly has done wonders to my health, my appearance, my physique, my strength, my mood, I feel that my life is really good and I have a lot to look forward to. The only thing that I feel is missing is that there is/are no woman/women in my life.
I suppose I’ve always cared, but in the past I’ve found it not worth the effort and was too upset and bitter about how women in the past have treated me. But I think it’s come to the point in my life where biology has won over, and I really do desire sex, companionship, intimacy, etc., so much so that I have to do something about it.
Go for it, it’s your choice.
Everyone, both men and women, has his defenses up, and for good reason: there are a lot of horrible people who will use your vulnerability to take advantage of you. But, deep down, we all want to bond with other human beings, and you can bond only when both people are vulnerable to each other. But if we keep our defenses up all the time, we can’t bond. No one wants to be the first to be vulnerable, because it’s terrifying! I’m hoping that if I express my vulnerability to women, in the long run, I’ll eventually find a few who want to drop their defenses with me when they see I’m dropping my defenses with them.
Just a little word:
“Laws”
LAWS
L-A-W-SIf you’ll start a cohabitation then she’ll earn rights over your stuff.
If you’ll sign a marriage contract then she’l earn even more rights over your stuff.2. I’ve realized that the fear of rejection is 100% irrational (yet I still feel it; weird!). Who cares if she rejects you? You’ll never run out of women! I don’t know where it (the fear) comes from, but I suspect it’s biologically ingrained: my theory is that it’s left over from the time when humans lived in small tribal communities, and if one woman found you repulsive, she’d poison the well, and because women are herd creatures, they all reject you, and you’ve permanently lost the opportunity to pass on your genes.
I agree here.
Fear of rejection is for losers.
Fear of rejection is also totally unrelated with being MGTOW.I’m of the opinion that women are like drugs: they can be very dangerous, and they have destroyed (and are destroying) many men who mess with them; but if you’re careful, know the risks, and use them in moderation, you can have a positive, healthy experience. I still think cohabitation, marriage, and parenthood are losing deals. I don’t believe in the concept of a “soul mate,” nor do I believe in lasting, unconditional love; but I do believe you can have positive experiences with women, and I’m taking the steps to try to have them.
What do you think? Does my desire for women, my initiative to satisfy that desire, my optimism in the outcome, and my belief I can eventually find a woman/women whose values and desires align with mine, and that we can enrich each other’s lives, mean I’m not MGTOW anymore?
If you reject the idea of cohabitation and the idea of signing a marriage contract, then you’re MGTOW.
The fact that you have sex with women cannot hurt, as long as you don’t involve the state.I suggest however to be VERY careful.
“Laws” is the magic word.SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.
This is such a blue pill PUA thing to write. I thought OP just got hacked, since I remember him being a poster for awhile here and didn’t think it was tuna.
But PUAs always have this attitude everyone was also a loser like them, fat, unemployed, bad hygiene etc
Absolutely nowhere in my post did I suggest that people who are unemployed and fat were losers. Nowhere in my post did I say that I was ever a loser.
You are trying to read a moral judgement where there was none.
Just a little consideration.
I’m actually extremely in shape.
That’s due my narcissism and it’s actually, in some ways, a flaw, not always a good thing.
I was more relaxed when I was out of shape, just after the separation, because I didn’t get signals from women: after the separation I immediatly planned to not sign a marriage contract nor to cohabitate anymore, and it’s actually EASIER to do it if you’re out of shape.SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.
I was in the same boat as u are now. got my s~~~ together, started going to the Gym and excelling in my work and school. then I felt the void as you did and I thought I needed to get myself a nice girl that will make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
and I did, she was cute and nice up to the 3 month mark. fighting started, ended up being the one who is doing most of the effort toward the relationship, long story short, she started to attract arbiters. I gave her an ultimatum and ended the relationship short after.
being single again I can see how much stress and pain she was bringing me. it’s a nice feeling to have someone to care for, but u’ll have to pay the price of being vulnerable and u’ll have to endure the pain of her bulls~~~. that and I didn’t even mention the financial pains she’ll bring u.
so here I am still going to the gym still doing great in my life minus the arm candy.
with all the awesome advice others gave you. what what u wish, but have redpill MGTOW knowledge now, it’s your failsafe, your B plan. do what u wish but calculate risks. get a GF but keep observing her behavior. don’t let things escalate to the point where ur in ruins. that would be on cuz now your educated and your armor thick.I’m reminded of someone I know who was an alcoholic and stayed dry for a number of years.
After time the guy forgot how alcohol was destroying him. His mind began playing a trick on him, allowing him to remember the “fun” he had when he was drinking. He slowly began to talk himself out of sobriety. He chose not to remember all the costly things he did when he was drunk that cost him tens of thousands of dollars. He didn’t think about how he couldn’t control the beast and the beast slowly took over until he was trapped.
“I’ll just have a few on the weekends”, nothing too heavy he told himself.
He was drawn to the flame like a moth and was sucked in and it was nearly his demise.
Let’s not be so dramatic: once swallowed, red pill cannot be undone.
He said that he still reject the idea of marriage contract and cohabitation. This is a good basis.SUPREME LEADER KIM JONG-UN'S FASHION STYLIST - if you want a new look or if you're a very beautiful trans you can call me, phone number +85079255312 / mobile 01921421211. The worth of a man isn't the usefulness that women get from him. Avoiding living with a woman, a man isn't rejecting a lot of sex: he's rejecting sexual starvation. MGTOW IS TACKLING DOMESTIC VIOLENCE IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONVENTION OF ISTANBUL: http://www.coe.int/en/web/conventions/full-list/-/conventions/rms/090000168008482e --- Article 4, Section 4 "Special measures that are necessary to prevent and protect women from gender-based violence shall not be considered discrimination under the terms of this Convention". WHAT I LEARNT FROM A GENDER STUDIES CLASS IN LUND, SWEDEN: every time feminists accuses men of doing something, odds are likely either them or persons associated with them are doing the exact same thing but a lot worse. WHO I'M RIGHT NOW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1okpAj7Fhw Basically my former life have been a conflict between this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz_RQVkvke4 and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFIMeyTK-sU That's, more or less, all about me.
Anonymous54I life without risks is a life not lived. ( or something like that)
Experience is the best teacher.We can compare scars later!
Just be wise and mythotical with your risk takeing.
There will be blues licks in your playing down the road.Thats ok.
This topic belongs in the litter tray.
And he gets a kitty cat from me.
After his first divorce in 4.5 years, the cat will be grown up and keep him company while writing his child support and vaginamony checks…
LOL.
In July of 2018, this honey pot forum was sold out to an unidentified NPC sock puppet and troll organization. Most independent thinkers and writers migrated to other MGTOW forums as a result of the never-ending infighting and deliberate trouble starting caused by members who were given "carte blanche" by the admin to do whatever they want. Before my departure, I only left a few thousand cat pics here to comfort and ridicule the feminist owners who now run this place. Their background agenda is to make MGTOW look like a club of losers the public eye. And during the course of 2019, they actually managed to destroy almost all other MGTOW venues as well. Here is the truth about "theindependentman.org" aka "TIM" which was created as an extended workbench to further divide the community. When you register, they install a spyware Zombie cookie on your browser that does all kinds of things the user does not know of: http://www.filedropper.com/essay-on-the-removal-of-malware-cookies-used-by-tim
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