Is using women as status symbols bad form (MGTOW related)?

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

I know that a general view is that feminism and women’s nature can be a problem for me, and remove personal power from them.  Men have been victimized.  But, what I want to look at here is some social norms, that men engage in themselves, that do involve women, but it is more of being in competition with other men, and social standing.  I see this as the use of women as status symbols in different ways.  It is part of a game of social norms, where society plays on insecurities of men, to be able to manipulate them.  This is my take on it, and I ask the question in the topic title, to see your thoughts.

I see women used as status symbols a number of ways:

* The trophy wife: Here, a man of power and/or money, has a wife that is very attractive.  This is done to show a guy has power, and is a power player in society.  There is the wife part here, from a MGTOW perspective, that is just plain off.  But, how about the other side, the use of a woman as a trinket, to try to score points?  This said trophy can cost you a ton, particularly if you end up dumping her.  But the power guy shows his power and wealth by affording it.  And how does this enable other men?  This here is to put other men down, and gain power by putting them down.

* The token wife: I would say this is by politicians.  A guy running for office needs to wife and family, and needs to look like an upright citizen.  To get ahead, he looks normal.

* The social accessory: I am going to ask here to stop a minute and think on this.  Think about the advertising you see, the music videos and so on.  In them, a guy of success is measure by him having women around him.  He apparently has them fawning over him, and this is a measure of his manliness.  A man is supposed to have this, in order to show he is a real and a success.  See here the Most Interesting Man in the World ads, and the placement of women in it.  See the women in it?  See, he is validated as the most interesting man in the world, because he has women about him that are entertained my him.  He needs this to be validated, and validate to the world.  After all, it shows he isn’t gay at the least.  Here is one of these videos:

* Boasting of sexual conquests: Ok, you are a straight man, and the sex drive can be a bear for one.  Some guys will get women for sex, and that is understandable, and natural.  What I speak here is not that, but something like the last one.  In this, you try to be a player, have game, and you boast to other men how many women you have had, and who you got into bed.  You use this as competition.  It goes beyond just your own needs, but ones to show you are a “real man”.  You are defined by your sexual ability to seduce women.  In this, you get gamed by the system also, and play it.  And you use this as a way to put other men down.  Of course the “You aren’t gay, are you?” line gets dropped.  And insecure men take a beating by this, and do things they don’t want to do, to fit in, and be accepted, rather than do what they really should be doing.

Please feel free to share your thoughts below on this.  My feeling is all these are bad form for MGTOW.  I won’t say they can’t happen, and the are exceptions, but social pressure to do these I see as right out.  I see a MGTOW needs to gain status other ways.  I am calling it “bad form”, in that it happens, but really isn’t the best reflection of MGTOW.  Of course, who am I to speak for MGTOW, so other voice would be of benefit here.  My interest is guys go their own way, and not face shame and status, and this other BS to get in their way.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[WrexgodParticipant 60]

Using a woman or women to obtain status is kind of beta imo. A man’s worth should never be based upon the woman next to him it’s the other way around.

[Zuberi TauParticipant 10606]

I’d rather have this beast as a status symbol.

[BDParticipant 1146]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

I see women used as status symbols a number of ways:

My first thought when a man has any kind of woman around as a symbol is HOW MUCH HAS HE BEEN PAYING FOR IT.

Usually the hotter the broad, the worse the personality, and the more you pay financially and emotionally.

Then I wonder how much abuse he tolerates, and that he time is coming, can he even sense the doom?

My next thought is to laugh.

Then. although I am not religious, I thank the powers that be that I am not paying for that abuse.

 

Because in order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive.

[ILiveAgainParticipant]

I have been at several events/occasions where it’s expected one has a vagina in tow.

I have been know to hire an escort for these occasions.

It always f~~~s a lot of guys off that I’m always seen with a different beautiful young girl on my arm. I always introduce them as my ‘friend’.

I don’t f~~~ them either. So I get the job done, go home and carry on about my life.

When I’m asked where my sexy girlfriend is …. I tell them they weren’t good enough but I’ll have a better one next time.

You can buy status ….. but not integrity or character.

[ComingInHotParticipant 160]

You said “…My feeling is all these are bad form for MGTOW.”

I hate to be captain obvious, no disrespect intended, but all the examples you used above are not done by MGTOW’s.

MGTOW’s don’t have trophy wives or the token wife or the social accessory.

I believe you are confusing the general populous of manginas, white knights who are aka hyenas, or beta males who are blue pill as people who practice MGTOW.  This is not the case.

Lastly, the most interesting man in the world does not have women by his side to show he is successful and he needs them, if you watch closely The most interesting man in the world is actually in my opinion a MGHOW.  He does falconry, races cars, he runs with the bulls, he fences, he is successful, sasquatch takes pictures of him.  Women come to him, he doesn’t go to them.  Its no different when you’re rich and gold diggers come to you and you bang them and dispose of them cause they are money hungry.

In fact, I dont think I have ever seen the same actress in those commercials next to him, if you take that for what it is worth hes a MGOW who sleeps with hot random women, good for him. Obviously I know he is an actor but the premise im arguing was if it was a real man.

 

I live again +1 sir on the mind f~~~ you create by doing the escort thing.  Great Idea.

 

 

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

ComingInHot wrote:

You said “…My feeling is all these are bad form for MGTOW.” I hate to be captain obvious, no disrespect intended, but all the examples you used above are not done by MGTOW’s. <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

Ok, here MGTOW would mean a guy who is a MGTOW, that him doing it doesn’t fit what MGTOW, the worldview/belief/ideology matches to.  I was going for a weaker for of, “Guy, don’t do that” because sometimes a guy may do that.

MGTOW’s don’t have trophy wives or the token wife or the social accessory. I believe you are confusing the general populous of manginas, white knights who are aka hyenas, or beta males who are blue pill as people who practice MGTOW.

In regards to what I wrote, this is mainly social norms, and media spin they use on defining what “real men” are, and men will willingly play along with it.  The PUA will also play on this, and alpha types will end up doing it to try to score with me, for status.

This is not the case. Lastly, the most interesting man in the world does not have women by his side to show he is successful and he needs them, if you watch closely The most interesting man in the world is actually in my opinion a MGHOW. He does falconry, races cars, he runs with the bulls, he fences, he is successful, sasquatch takes pictures of him. Women come to him, he doesn’t go to them.<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

I was trying to show the parts where he had the women around him, as accessories/props to show how interesting he is.  I won’t say a MGTOW can have women in a group there, it just isn’t a priority.  I could of gone with Duke Nukem with women by his side to show how much of a “real man” he is.  The Most Interesting Man is the one that popped into my mind, as you see others in music videos and so on, the idea you have a woman as a prop to validate how successful you are.

Its no different when you’re rich and gold diggers come to you and you bang them and dispose of them cause they are money hungry. In fact, I dont think I have ever seen the same actress in those commercials next to him, if you take that for what it is worth hes a MGOW who sleeps with hot random women, good for him. Obviously I know he is an actor but the premise im arguing was if it was a real man. <span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

And I was just using it as one example.  I see it as something a guy uses to show how superior he is to other men.

Another example is this picture.  See, Duke is a REAL man, because he has women by his legs.  They are nice props to show how manly he is.

Duke with women.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

My apologies Richard, perhaps after 40+ years of being told I had to be “more sensitive”, I have become overly sensitive to certain things.

I think men here have likely had a lot of abuse on the part of society, social norms and so on.  There is ton of manipulation, and one of those is “be more sensitive” also.  Another forum had a far worse reaction to me also, starting off with myself using “manchild” in reference to myself (no man should say that of themselves) and also things regarding wondering about a celibate life.  I am just trying to be on my own, a grown up adult (man), etc… and have a WAY different perspective on things, because I didn’t have to put up with the bull of women, and find that my own way filter means I don’t get a woman.

I guess part of my thought in this thread is what Herbivores of Japan say about their culture.  It isn’t just that they have issues with women, it is the whole “real man” rat race, drive to success and give into status they revolt against, and it isn’t just from women.  So, I am asking how much of it comes out of women being used in this as status.  It does appear I am getting real close to what women are saying here, and then drop one letter, and blam.

I need a blasted glossary of terms, damn it! 🙂

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[QcummerParticipant 652]

I still see the language ‘Dick’ was using as being ‘not a man’. Either way, his post was poorly written, and his/her understanding of ‘MGTOW’ is way the f~~~ off…to much labeling and trying to categorize. It’s not possible to categorize or label a term like ‘mghow’ or ‘mgtow’ since it’s based on an individual’s choice. It’s like trying to label and categorize the word ‘individual’ or ‘unique’. Unique Individuals are so retarded, I literally can’t even, ya know?

[experiencedParticipant]

RusskyKGB, “We need to develop a “captcha”-type test that no woman could pass )))
Anybody has any ideas?”

wind ’em up before they even get on the forum. if they press the female side of the switch, instead of seeing motorcycles touring the highways, have the female driving into her pit crew and doing it again,and then other female driver GIF’s driving like females and then.. the kittens…they’ll be so ticked, that when they get on site pretending to be male, they’ll blow up sooner.

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[KeymasterKeymaster]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

I need a blasted glossary of terms, damn it!

We have a glossary http://mgtow.com/glossary/ available in the top menu. Dammit! 🙂

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[narwhalParticipant]

eh, I got the gist of what richard was trying to say.  I must saying that the status symbol was one of the big draws to getting married. I did enjoy having a beautiful woman on my arm for events and such.  I guess I would say that it’s a side benefit to being with  a female companion. I don’t think guys member trophy wives for status alone, I think they generally want her around and want to have sex primarily.  Politicians, yes, it seems they have to get married.  Not only does give voters a sense of stability and that they are like them, but it gives the impression that the politician won’t spend his time chasing tail.  As for the alpha thing, again, it seems a side benefit.

As MGHOW, that extra bit of respect others seem to give you because of marriage is something you’ll have to learn to live without.  In my guess, it’s not quite as bad since I have kids, and that helps me fit in at certain events.  Really though, you ‘ll now have plenty of time to do other things that may or may not impress.  Doesn’t really matter.

Ok. Then do it.

[Anonymous 1]

Honestly, this whole thread reeks of female insecurity.

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

Ok, here MGTOW would mean a guy who is a MGTOW, that him doing it doesn’t fit what MGTOW, the worldview/belief/ideology matches to. I was going for a weaker for of, “Guy, don’t do that” because sometimes a guy may do that.

And what if a guy does that? It his freaking life (and his freaking funeral). That is not a rebuttal of the original response which  was:

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

ComingInHot wrote: You said “…My feeling is all these are bad form for MGTOW.” I hate to be captain obvious, no disrespect intended, but all the examples you used above are not done by MGTOW’s

The examples above CONTINUE not being made by Mgtows, so why would we care with men that DO that kind of stuff? We point the way, but it is a man choice to follow the path or not.

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

MGTOW’s don’t have trophy wives or the token wife or the social accessory. I believe you are confusing the general populous of manginas, white knights who are aka hyenas, or beta males who are blue pill as people who practice MGTOW.

In regards to what I wrote, this is mainly social norms, and media spin they use on defining what “real men” are, and men will willingly play along with it. The PUA will also play on this, and alpha types will end up doing it to try to score with me, for status.

Why would we care about the social norms that the media spins to define what a “real men” is? We are men, because we have dicks and b~~~~. That is a real men. What the media and women considers a “real men” is irrelevant to us. There might be fools out there trying to prove themselves to women, but they are not MGTOW’s and therefore, not our concern. Next.

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

This is not the case. Lastly, the most interesting man in the world does not have women by his side to show he is successful and he needs them, if you watch closely The most interesting man in the world is actually in my opinion a MGHOW. He does falconry, races cars, he runs with the bulls, he fences, he is successful, sasquatch takes pictures of him. Women come to him, he doesn’t go to them.

I was trying to show the parts where he had the women around him, as accessories/props to show how interesting he is. I won’t say a MGTOW can have women in a group there, it just isn’t a priority. I could of gone with Duke Nukem with women by his side to show how much of a “real man” he is. The Most Interesting Man is the one that popped into my mind, as you see others in music videos and so on, the idea you have a woman as a prop to validate how successful you are.

Again, and this is relevant to MGTOW how? You are pointing at examples that were made by the mainstream media FOR the average blue pill men. That has nothing to do with Mgtows. What if you are right, and those adds are using women as sign of status and/or success. What are you proposing? Should Mgtow be outrageous about those things? They are pieces of satire and comedy as well. Duke Nukem, for Christ sake, is the STEREOTYPE of the macho men. He was awesome when I was a kid because his games were good and fueled with humor, and he was larger than life. He was never MENT to be taken SERIOUSLY. Only FEMINISTS can be this dumb. You do know what a sense of humor is right? Unless you are a woman, which would explain a lot of this thread.

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

Its no different when you’re rich and gold diggers come to you and you bang them and dispose of them cause they are money hungry. In fact, I dont think I have ever seen the same actress in those commercials next to him, if you take that for what it is worth hes a MGOW who sleeps with hot random women, good for him.

Obviously I know he is an actor but the premise im arguing was if it was a real man. And I was just using it as one example. I see it as something a guy uses to show how superior he is to other men. Another example is this picture. See, Duke is a REAL man, because he has women by his legs. They are nice props to show how manly he is.

A BLUE PILL men use this kind of thing to show how “superior” he is. A Mgtow can see through the bulls~~~. A Mgtow might even bang those chicks, but he would not deceive himself at to think THOSE women are what makes him powerful. Again, this whole argument misses the point of what a Mgtow is and is IRRELEVANT to mgtow. Also, Duke is not a REAL man, he is a video game character with a really crappy last game. And what if Duke Nukem is using women as “nice props”? Why would we care? We might enjoy looking at the female figure. There is NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. That not NECESSARILY means mgtow defines manhood BASED ON WOMEN.

And, suppose you are right on you assessments… So what?!? What is your point? What you think Mgtow should do? Should we demonize men for having sexual interest in WOMEN? Should we DEMONIZE MASCULINITY? You sound like a feminist trying to rally Mgtow against the representation of beautiful women, or against the idea that men might be sexually attracted to women.

Holy crap this thread was annoying….

 

[KeymasterKeymaster]

It’s easy to be harder on the new ones. When they aren’t fully unplugged try, and give them a break. If he were female, I would have been ruthless, but we absolutely know he’s not, so we should try and be a little forgiving. Although it’s probably best they realize – from the start – no gynocentric bulls~~~ will be tolerated here…. some men arrive lost and at the end of their ropes. Richard has said he is having a very hard time of it because he’s out of work. SOMEBODY has to throw him a rope and be there for him. Richard is still trying to make sense of it all. No the forum is not “MGTOW training”…… it Dancing with Wolves, but we don’t have to devour the guy.

I try to distinguish between a confused / unclear & disorientated one… and one that shows up to lecture on “how to make marriage work” or some s~~~. The latter won’t last long.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[MgtowWaveParticipant 4352]

Women being used for status?

B.S.!

Women want to be with and be seen being with men who have status.

Female psychology 101 :hypergamy  .

Women want to be with the Donald Trumps and George Bushes and Al Capones of the world.

Men who are unsuccessful in life and with women are shunned,  shamed and rejected even further.

Women   who are unsuccessful get a lot more  sympathy and compassion. There are special programs just for women who want to go into STEM. Governments like in China spend money helping women find mates and husbands.

Men are either successful or they are a POS. Women not so much.

frankly my dear i don't give a damn

[AFTParticipant 2722]

Having a  beautiful woman with you is definitely a social  status symbol whether you like it or not.  It’s part of the biological makeup of men, we are competitive and have an irresistible biological urge.  Women have an irresistible desire for Hypergamy, it’s their nature and having a wealthy successful man pussy-whipped is the status symbol for a successful woman.  In a natural state of social order a man could use his productive success to secure a beautiful woman’s loyalty, and women would compete for the successful man’s attention.  However we see that having half a dozen kids to just as many different fathers, seems to be the new social status symbol, somehow justifying a woman’s desirability.  But I digress.

As a MGHOW, I understand my biology, and the NATURAL laws that SHOULD dictate my behavior, HOWEVER, we are not only subject to those NATURAL LAWS of biology, human nature, and survival, we are subject to the UNNATURAL LAWS of society and we understand that those laws were enacted to empower the lazy, week and unproductive in order to undermine the strong, productive and industrious.

Status symbols only matter in the eyes of OTHER people, so as a MGHOW I subscribe to ILiveAgain’s strategy of using escorts (or gold diggers) as an accessory, and  rather remain focused on Zuberi Tau’s aspiration of exotic cars, also money, bikes, booze and one night stands, because these are not merely for the elevation of my status in the eyes of others.

EDIT: I didn’t intend this to be a reply to MgtowWave’s post, I agree with you 100%, I suppose you’re highlighting women’s side of the equation, but I think men still compete for social status based on their biological imperative.

+1 Keymaster, there is nowhere else to go for men that are freshly f~~~ed over, MGTOW can choose to be a place for exclusively MGTOW, but I’m pleased that you have decided on a more compassionate stance, where else can a man turn?

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Keymaster wrote:

It’s easy to be harder on the new ones. When they aren’t fully unplugged try, and give them a break. If he were female, I would have been ruthless, but we absolutely know he’s not, so we should try and be a little forgiving. Although it’s probably best they realize – from the start – no gynocentric bulls~~~ will be tolerated here…. some men arrive lost and at the end of their ropes. Richard has said he is having a very hard time of it because he’s out of work. SOMEBODY has to throw him a rope and be there for him. Richard is still trying to make sense of it all. No the forum is not “MGTOW training”…… it Dancing with Wolves, but we don’t have to devour the guy. I try to distinguish between a confused / unclear & disorientated one… and one that shows up to lecture on “how to make marriage work” or some s~~~. The latter won’t last long.

Ok, thanks.

This was my original post I had on here, in the introductions section:

/forums/topic/out-of-necessity-i-am-researching-this/

It had been trying to research, rebuild an identity for myself, and so on, while being on the disoriented side.  There is a bucketload of cognitive dissonance with myself in my state and what I need to be, because of the job situations and the lies I had been told (and current state I am in).  I really want to go my own way, but am not there financially yet.  I do want to really unplug, but I have to end up trying to sort through things.

For me, I don’t really fit anywhere, so I am trying to get on with that.  The thing is that I think I have been going about this a long time, just not owning up to it.

Anyhow, I expect to miss more with posts, if I do more on here.  It goes with the territory.  I am also not interested in lecturing, just clarifying.

Related to this here, and women and so on, I know one guy I used to work with, who ended up being with women, but he laid the terms out.  He was flat out saying he was not looking for a relationship with a woman, but they would still come to him, and he was above board.  I would say he was MGTOW, without the label and such.  If a woman would throw themselves at a guy, on his own terms, and he is states the way things are, why would I get on his case or say it is wrong?

 

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

MgtowWave wrote:

Women being used for status? B.S.! Women want to be with and be seen being with men who have status. Female psychology 101 :hypergamy . Women want to be with the Donald Trumps and George Bushes and Al Capones of the world. Men who are unsuccessful in life and with women are shunned, shamed and rejected even further. Women who are unsuccessful get a lot more sympathy and compassion. There are special programs just for women who want to go into STEM. Governments like in China spend money helping women find mates and husbands. Men are either successful or they are a POS. Women not so much.

Ok, please take what I said about woman as accessories, more of an image the media pushes to make a guy look successful, than a reality.  And my discussing it was an attempt to try to clarify if a MGTOW would even give a flip about that at all.  It looks like it got derailed.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[DurdenParticipant 1051]

Richard is truly a guy because I trust @keymaster when he says that he is.

Richard this was a basic AMOG(Alpha Male of Group) post. Basically: I see this as wrong. So should you. I already do. Thus I am superior. Its a beginners mistake to try to gain popularity and part of unplugging. It’s a conditioned in society of gaining reputation. It will not work here. It may not be what you intended. But that is what it is.

The time right now Richard is not focus on any other MGTOW. The time is to focus on yourself and be selfish. Being selfish where you are right now is the right thing to do to get by. It’s time to “Man Up” to yourself. If anybody else tells you to man up you tell them to f~~~ off. We may have been put into a society that does not respect us. But that doesn’t mean we cannot become great men who overcome such odds. If you need help say “Guys I’m going crazy about so and so.” We will do the best we can.

 

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

[Anonymous 1]

@keymaster

Yeah, you are probably right. It is just that I am used to learn through jumping (or being thrown) into the fire, so this is more or less my expectation regarding other people, when conflict emerges. Not saying it is the right way to do things, but it is one behavior I default to sometimes. And this thread seems to touch on a subject I am personally getting sick of, which is the demonetization of male sexuality, by “questioning” male preferences. So I lashed out a little bit.

I actually like to interact new comers, specially because I may have a lot to learn myself, but I also am wary of possible trolls and infiltrators.

Anyway, my points are still valid though, just wanted to clarify the way I do things. 🙂

[Author]

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