Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Is it the guns or the way we treat men and boys?
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DrAK74 4 years, 4 months ago.
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I honestly don’t want to stir up a political s~~~storm here. For the record, I support the second amendment yet still think we’d be better off with a few more regulations/restrictions on handguns. I say this as someone who owns them myself and also realizes that restricting them won’t stop these guys from shooting/blowing up schools. I understand the arguments on both sides and honestly don’t want this thread to be about gun rights vs. control, I just wanted to give full disclosure so everyone knows where I stand.
That said, why after every school (and other mass) shooting do we get the same tired crap from our politicians:
President Obama, in an impassioned appearance at the White House, said that grief was not enough, and he implored Americans, “whether they are Democrats or Republicans or independents,” to consider their representatives’ stance on gun control when they voted and to decide “whether this cause of continuing death for innocent people should be a relevant factor.”
Can’t one of them stand up and ask if part of the problem might be the way we’re treating males in this society? I think most of us deal with it in generally un-violent ways, or at least most violence is directed at a punching bag or a tv set at the backwoods shooting range.
But if you keep sending the message that half the population is basically worthless, is it any wonder we get one or two that snap every so often and go after whichever people they perceive are to blame? In this case it was a religious thing, other times it’s racial, sometimes it’s even the kids themselves they blame (Sandy hook). It seems like the underlying theme is always the same though – a man gets the message that “you’re basically worthless and should kill yourself,” to which he responds “Fine, but I’m going to take some of you with me.”
Then just imagine if you happen to be in one of the groups that are constantly being accused of being “privileged,” and that’s just insult to injury. Please do correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that a common thread that runs through many of not most of these guys is that they were made to feel like they were worthless by their peers. Throw in the mix the male biological mating imperative and then being told by society at large that despite a mountain of horrendous experiential evidence to the contrary (I think many/most of these guys were bullied, shamed, etc), that you should consider yourself to be privileged, and frankly I’m surprised that MORE guys don’t go off the deep end.
My question is, do you guys think that the near total lack of recognition of male worth plays a part in the mass shooting phenomenon?
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people.
If it were the guns, let’s look at guns per capita: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country#List_of_countries_by_number_of_guns_per_capitaI was raised in #9 on the list, living in #10 and have since long had an obsession with #2. I can’t say I ever heard of a single school shooting in any of these.
My guess is that something else is seriously wrong in the US. Some have said meds, that might at least be a reasonable place to start, if not to at least rule it out?
I think both the meds and availability of guns are contributors, but they’re both tapdancing around the core issue: The (de)valuation of males in society.
There was a thread yesterday about how violence against men is acceptable and even considered funny in ways it would never be tolerated for women. Message: You (men) are worth less.
Add that society level projection of worthlessness to bullying, rejection, and shaming on a personal level, and I honestly think that’s more to blame than any gun or other lethal device will be.
Note: I’m excluding religious based mass killings which I think are in a completely different category. “YOU HAVE INSULTED THE PROPHET MOHAMMED(p~~~ be upon him) and you must now DIE” is not the same thing we’re seeing with mass shootings like the one yesterday. Although it is worth noting that extreme sexual repression and a promise of pussy in the afterlife is a close cousin to man shaming/devaluing.
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
Anonymous18We have spooks doing these psyops to stir up support for gun bans, according to UN plans. Remember we’re now entering the implementation phase of the UN agenda . america must be disarmed now. …..from my cold dead hands. We choose the hard way, big brother.
At this point any change that is fear based can be outright rejected as propaganda to concentrate power and capital in the hands of few.
I guess when you wake up to one injustice, others just follow naturally.
But for anyone seeking the truth be very careful. There is a new trend of planting conspiracy theories to sum everyone asking questions about official story in the reptilian, flat earth, Satanic-cult believing nut job. Don’t fall for that s~~~. There is nothing secret about greedy men f~~~ing the planet using deception and lies to blanket their motives.
Follow the money and seek whom you are forbidden to criticize. That simple.
And…. Nikola Tesla ftw.
These people are broken. I don’t know what is the reason of this epidemic of violence, but even if government banned all firearms they would find other weapons. Nothing changes until the real problem is addressed.
I don’t think you’re too far from the truth here. It’s definitely more than just speculation.
They like to discount them as “crazy” but ARE THEY?? You have to ask the question.
/video/who-taught-you-to-hate-yourself/Back in 2012/2013(?) a black police officer who worked his life dedicated to law enforcement went on a shooting rampage in Los Angeles. It ended in Big Bear where he was eventually caught and killed. He targeted all the specific people who wronged him. He didn’t wake up that morning and walk into a diner because he was nuts. You could have bumped into him that day while he was holding a gun and he would have marched right past you. He actually did that.
When you treat a man long enough like his WORD, LOYALTY, DEDICATION (for little reward and huge risk), HANDSHAKE, and SENSE OF DUTY AND HONOR are worthless, you are effectively training him to not care anymore. And when a man doesn’t care anymore, he doesn’t care anymore. You have pushed him to the point of no return.
That man who dresses as Santa and opened fire on his ex wife at Christmas after a nasty divorce…. was he really “CRAZY”?
Asking the question is not controversial – because you’re merely looking for a sound explanation. That black police officer HAD an explanation. The Santa Clause guy had an explanation … and again, nobody gave a s~~~.
If you want to ask yourself a “controversial” question you can wonder how the people who endorse 50 million abortions — in just one country in the last 40 years alone — can pretend to be devastated by ONE madman who’s p~~~ed to the point of not caring anymore.
Is he really a madman? Or he is just a MAD …… MAN.
In the Michael Moore film “Bowling for Columbine”, rocker Marilyn Manson was asked “what would you have said to the shooter”??
He answered: ” I wouldn’t have said anything. I would have listened. Which is something nobody did”.
•••••••
That video where Wendy Williams is teaching women to trap men into fatherhood is just ONE TINY example. Did anyone ask her husband what he thinks? He already told his wife he didn’t want anymore kids and had 101 damned excellent reasons for it. Did anyone give a s~~~ about his choice to NOT have anymore kids? Nobody gave a s~~~. On that topic alone… nobody gives a s~~~ what a man thinks. Not only did they not care. They laughed and cheered and clapped while conspiring behind his back – to sentence him to 18 years of slavery. Unconstitutional forced slavery.
Eventually — eventually —- ONE man in a million (or ten million or 100 million) will snap.
The real question is who the f~~~ can pretend to be surprised? Are they crazy?The absolute worst thing you can do to a man is throw his loyalty & sense of honor and duty into the trash.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.There is a new trend of planting conspiracy theories to sum everyone asking questions about official story in the reptilian, flat earth, Satanic-cult believing nut job. Don’t fall for that s~~~.
….or that the UN has an agenda to take over the world. Equally nutty.
I know people at the UN. Yes it attracts some fruitcases just like religion attracts nutcases that claim that soon everyone will accept their religion because it is the will of god/jesus/allah/gaia/Bob/xenu/. They can’t even get the millenium development goals accomplished, much less the sinister agenda attributed to them. There’s no winning that argument of course – any evience presented to the contrary will always be countered with “that’s just what they want you to think” or other such crap logic.
Now, I could buy that they are acting as a tool for the multilateral corporations, but only in a peripheral way.
This is the end result of unfettered capitalism – sooner or later it turns predatory and controlling. Adam Smith’s model relies on the participants having relatively equal access to opportunity and raw resources. Once those become tightly controlled by established economic interests as they are now, you no longer have a free market, but the illusion of one. But I digress.
It doesn’t change the fact that men are treated as disposable commodities. What we have here is a man who disposed of 10 other people along with himself.
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
If you want to ask yourself a “controversial” question you can wonder how the people who endorse 50 million abortions — in just one country in the last 40 years alone — can pretend to be devastated by ONE madman who’s p~~~ed to the point of not caring anymore.
S~~~ this is exactly what I DIDN’t want to stir up. I live in Seatte, one of the most pro-choice and feminst/mangina laden places on earth and I don’t know anyone who ENDORSES abortion.
I just know people who understand that women have been terminating pregnancies for thousands of years and would prefer their daughters/sisters not permanently ruin their reproductive system with a coat hanger.
Nobody here endorses anything, they just recognize reality and choose the lesser of two evils. I know which one I’d choose for my daughter.
Did anyone ask her husband what he thinks? He already told his wife he didn’t want anymore kids and had 101 damned excellent reasons for it. Did anyone give a s~~~ about his choice to NOT have anymore kids?
Right there with you brother. I fully support a man’s equal right to choose whether or not to be a parent even after conception. Just like women have that right – I only seek equality.
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
S~~~ this is exactly what I DIDN’t want to stir up.
I only bring it up because it’s just one example of something NOBODY gives a s~~~ about the male opinion on.
Right or wrong is not the issue here. It;s the fact that NOBODY CARES about him.
One tiny topic. Fatherhood – whether he wants it or not – is a BIG THING for men.
And nobody gives a s~~~. As a man, you have zero parental rights. Zero.That means you are thought of as totally worthless. Except your money and labor. That will do nicely.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.S~~~ this is exactly what I DIDN’t want to stir up.
I only bring it up because it’s just one example of something NOBODY gives a s~~~ about the male opinion on.
Right or wrong is not the issue here. It;s the fact that NOBODY CARES about him.
One tiny topic. Fatherhood – whether he wants it or not – is a BIG THING for men.And nobody gives a s~~~. As a man, you have zero parental rights. Zero.
That means you are thought of as totally worthless. Except your money and labor. That will do nicely.Excellent point – and I really do appreciate the clarification. I really think MGTOW may be the beginning of the solution too. I like to think of it as a sort of ghandi-style passive resistance, and I think it actually does have the potential to effect eventual change. I just hope we can direct more guys here BEFORE they go on a rampage.
Thanks for all you do for that effort.
"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,
Excellent point – and I really do appreciate the clarification.
It’s important. As men, we have a need to make sense. 🙂 Since we have already learned that NOTHING is what it seems – or as we have been taught — then we would be best to point that critical eye where it really needs to look, and ask the really hard questions nobody else is asking.
Here’s just another random thing I picked out in about 2-point-2 seconds.
http://time.com/3631350/men-are-idiots-new-study-says/
See that? TIME says you’re a f~~~ing idiot. It says I’m a f~~~ing idiot too. Good thing you and I know better than to take that s~~~ seriously. But what if we did. What if a man actually has enough of that s~~~ and lashes out. Is it any wonder, really.
You definitely asked a great question today.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.yet still think we’d be better off with a few more regulations/restrictions on handguns.
That is EXACTLY the sort of thinking that enables this sort of s~~~ to happen.
History has shown damn conclusively that the only way to stop one of these attacks is for someone else, besides the gunman, to be present WITH A GUN to put a stop to it. Your “a few more restrictions” bulls~~~ will only ensure that that won’t happen. These assholes will still be able to get guns. All you will accomplish is making sure they are the ONLY ones with them. And even if your stupid “a few more restrictions” do somehow magically work and would be mass murders do see the light and obey the law, all it means is they’ll switch to s~~~ like matchstick heads in pressure cookers.
You will notice that there has never been a single mass shooting at a gun show. They only ever happen at “gun free” places like schools and churches. Do you not understand the reason for that?
Gun control is counter productive. The very philosophy behind it is stupid beyond belief.
Guns don’t cause this s~~~ to happen. Guns are not a cause, for all that that imperialist f~~~hole Obama tries to say they are. Poor mental health care doesn’t cause this s~~~ to happen. Even the denigration of men doesn’t cause this to happen.
The media cause these things to happen. Because every single time one of these assholes shoots up a school the media turns him into a celebrity. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Is it any wonder that other assholes see that celebrity status and decide to get a slice of it for themselves? It is no coincidence that this happened so shortly on the heels of that Colorado theater shooter being back in the news. I predicted back then that with three months of him being back in the news getting all that attention again that there would be yet another school shooting. Why three months? Because that’s about the time it takes for one of these f~~~holes to work himself up to doing this s~~~ and then preparing to carry it out and for everyone else to start letting their guard down again. And once again I’ve been proven right.
If the media stopped celebrating these f~~~holes, if the media actually denigrated them for a change instead of protraying them as some misunderstood Bad Boy, this s~~~ would stop happening.
But that wouldn’t sell advertising.
Anonymous42I’ll agree with KeyMaster here, but with a twist. For decades women have been on a pedestal they no longer deserve! when men were part of the home and family, their influence was prevalent and valuable to a successful family unit of what would become the next generation of productive and “disciplined people”.
Now, with the man being extinct from the family, being put out in the cold by the hive and it’s many outrageous laws and procedures, he becomes an outcast from all things regarding his future and his control over that future. He in essence becomes a drone for what he knows only as the hive that considers him not, only her.
With his family held hostage and prepared for ruination, it’s easy to see how he can become “unstable”, ask yourself one thing; where is the “stability” in his life?
Where is Buttercup’s stability? ALL F~~~ING THINGS HIVE! The same hive that destroys him, while rewarding her for his demise and destruction.
Now “buttercup’s hive” wants everybody’s guns! WTF!
The destruction of a society is not a pretty thing, avoid Buttercup, you avoid the misery and loathing that comes with her and her “Buttercup Hive”….
Id rather marry a speeding bullet than marry Buttercup and “her” Buttercup Hive! F~~~ That!
MG-Tower’s value to MG-Tower: Priceless!
Buttercup’s value to MG_Tower: Worthless and detrimental, therefore below worthless! (immeasurably below worthless)
MG-Towers value to Buttercup: Whatever she can extract from MG-Tower by milling him down in Buttercup’s Hive! F~~~ THAT, F~~~ THAT, and F~~~ THAT!^^^ A damn excellent point from @sidecar
The women who think shooter James Holmes is “hott”
Even after Elliot Rodger thought the world was over because of female rejection….
women everywhere on twitter were Gaga over him. “I would totally do him”.Repeat: he took more than just his own life because he hard time getting with chicks….. and because he did that, he was bad boy turn-on now.
How f~~~ing upside down is that.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.
Anonymous11It’s not “The Guns” per se though these tragedies give asshole progressive politicians fuel for yet more useless progressive political solutions for problems created by prior useless progressive political solutions. We used to lock dangerous psychotic people away from polite society in insane asylums.
One can easily kill more people by driving a car at high speed through a crowded constrained area than one ever could hope to do with guns. A homicidal maniac is going to kill with whatever tool said maniac has at hand.
“homicidal maniac”
I hear that term now and I don’t even blink. Prior to hearing Marlyin Manson speak on this topic, I actually thought he was a “maniac” who was sick in the head – for obvious reasons. His appearance alone shows he makes great effort to come off like a freaking psycho. You almost have to say to him “Look man, you don’t have any right trying to come off as sane and balanced while criticizing others for judging a book by it’s cover…… when you make every effort to make sure even your EYES are not the same color”.
He’s not BORN that way and automatically entitled to people thinking he makes any sense because of some natural defect. But hearing him speak a few times, he surprised the s~~~ out of me. I would never give him the benefit of the doubt. But he certainly earned it. In one response, he actually made sense out of a “maniac” who didn’t appear to make any sense.
Lesson learned: Look Closer.
Some people just don’t want to understand things – or other people. They don’t even want to try. We all know what I’m talking about.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.
Anonymous3Restrictions don’t work. Criminals will acquire guns if they seek to, no matter what. Either way, law abiding citizens suffer.
Legally arming people doesn’t work either. Having good people with guns prevent/neutralize feral gunmen, works only if the following assumption applies: The unlawful gunmen stay the same way. The thing is, you cannot change the environment without expecting the subjects within the environment to not react. Criminals are NOT looking for a fair fight, and they will look at every avenue to try to gain an advantage. If everybody has a gun, it would be incredibly foolish to presume that the would be criminal wouldn’t go for a bigger, more powerful gun (that is illegal), or other alternative weaponry that completely counters gunned defenders.
I’ve said this before, guns are merely one type of weapons, but not all weapons are guns. The Boston Marathon bombing showed exactly that. Even if every involved citizen at the time had a gun, nothing would have changed. As matter of fact, had that been the case, I’m willing to bet , it only would have encouraged the criminal to be extra cautious and destructive. Both gun control and gun advocacy are equally misguided and futile, and serve as nothing but diversions from what the true problem is. It’s an eternal debate that solves absolutely nothing.
Address the following instead: Male disposibility, male utility being the sole value and purpose of ones existence, lack of outlets for male emotional catharsis, male tribalism. That’s what could have prevented a case like Elliot Rodger, by allowing him to recognize that he himself has everything he thinks he’s missing, that men are good and beautiful, and have always been responsible for everything that is good and beautiful in this world, NOT another gun in some other man’s pocket. Until this happens, you can restrict guns all you want, or flood the country with as many guns as you want, it solves nothing.
Legally arming people doesn’t work either.
Actually it does. It worked at the Players Bar in Winnemucca, Nevada, Pearl Junior High in Pearl, Mississippi, Parker Junior High in Edinborough, Pennsylvania, that church in Colorado Springs, Clackamas Mall in Clackamas, Oregon, and those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head.
Meanwhile “gun control” has failed to stop a single mass killing anywhere.
Nor can it, because would-be mass murders can always just stuff a bunch of match heads into a pressure cooker. What are you going to do then? Have kitchenware licensing? Require background checks to buy matches?
Having good people with guns prevent/neutralize feral gunmen, works only if the following assumption applies: The unlawful gunmen stay the same way. The thing is, you cannot change the environment without expecting the subjects within the environment to not react. Criminals are NOT looking for a fair fight, and they will look at every avenue to try to gain an advantage. If everybody has a gun, it would be incredibly foolish to presume that the would be criminal wouldn’t go for a bigger, more powerful gun (that is illegal), or other alternative weaponry that completely counters gunned defenders.
And that “arms race” false assumption of yours rests on the false Call of Duty video game based belief that “bigger and better” is always possible or always concealable.
Guns are tools, and like all tools there are specific guns for specific purposes, and limitations are built in to those specific purposes. Yes a bigger “better” hunting rifle is more powerful than all but the most ridiculously overbuilt handguns, but it’s singularly ill suited for concealment and all but useless in a close quarters situation putting it at a massive tactical advantage against small, concealable sidearms in a mass shooting scenario.
And that’s besides the point, because the single most important factor in a gunfight has always been training and skill, not weaponry. Given the choice between some spray and pray would be mass murderer schmuck with any firearm you could name and a small, unidentified number of competent citizens with concealed sidearms, my money will be on the armed citizens every single time.
psych meds ..the common thread in all the tragic shootings ..columbine to sandy-hook .. these killers were medicated ..side effects of seratonin uptake inhibitors include ..SUICIDAL / HOMICIDAL ideations !
Anonymous18….or that the UN has an agenda to take over the world. Equally nutty.
Brother it no longer is a secret. UN is NWO. Multilateral efforts from 190+ countries working under BRICS basket currencies and centralized power – legal and financial. USA was the Interim World Order.
Source: Prospect for America: The Rockefeller Panel Reports (1961)
It has been in works since POST-WW 2.
Say what you may but with their wealth and resources to distract them these men have quite some dedication and patience. UN was established for this sole purpose in 1940s after the League of Nations failed in the 1920s.
The catch is to not be distracted by the unilateral NWO deception with the US Vs Russia theatre over Syria.
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