How bad has the freaking out over the BBC documentary gotten?

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

But, unlike normal movements, one can’t say that it is coordinated by leaders and orchestrated.

The problem is that when you call it a movement people EXPECT it to be a certain way. They expect it to have agendas and goals and leaders. And then you start seeing s~~~ like the BBC interviewing “Paul Lame: Leader of the MGTOW Movement” and associating the s~~~ that jackass says with yourself. And worse.

That’s all best avoided.

MGTOW is a movement like Not Collecting Stamps is a hobby. It isn’t. So don’t call it one.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

sidecar wrote:

richardhutnik wrote:

But, unlike normal movements, one can’t say that it is coordinated by leaders and orchestrated.

The problem is that when you call it a movement people EXPECT it to be a certain way. They expect it to have agendas and goals and leaders. And then you start seeing s~~~ like the BBC interviewing “Paul Lame: Leader of the MGTOW Movement” and associating the s~~~ that jackass says with yourself. And worse. That’s all best avoided. MGTOW is a movement like Not Collecting Stamps is a hobby. It isn’t. So don’t call it one.

I recall that Occupy wanted to say it was leaderless also, so that organizers and key people who influenced couldn’t be targeted.  My take on the way things are now, from Anonymous to Occupy to the Arab Spring, to you name it pretty much, due to the Internet, isn’t really going to have any leaders.  This is a shift we had with the Internet doing crowdsourcing of concepts.  Anonymous was one of the first to pick it up, and labelled it a “meta-consciousness” or something like that.  So, I would be up for not calling it a “movement”, but I did reach for the term, because it is a social phenomenon which seems to have some commonality behind it, even if there aren’t any leaders.  But it is just a bunch of people moving under a banner of some sort (and with moving, I reached for movement).

What you have going on now is social change without any leaders, operating in the context of networking over the Internet. in regards to MGTOW.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Occupy etc. all had common, collective goals though. And while they claimed to have no leaders, they did have organizer and representatives and figureheads to be interviewed. Try that with MGTOW and they’ll all vociferously claim :”That man does NOT speak for me.” So there’s no comparison there.

MGTOW do not have collective goals. Men Going Their Own Way all have individual goals.

MGTOW don’t want to change society. It’s society’s job to change itself. Each MGHOW just wants to minimize society’s ability to f~~~ with him.

MGTOW are defined by what they individually don’t do, by what they individually don’t want. That’s the opposite of a common cause.

And MGTOW are not moving under a common banner. MGTOW don’t even have a common banner. Or any banner. if an individual MGHOW wants to wave a flag, that’s his business, no-one else’s.

The only commonality between the MGTOW phenomenon and movements like Anonymous is there are a lot of MGTOW out there. But most of the MGTOW haven’t ever even heard of MGTOW. But they are refusing to marry, cohabitate, or sperm donate, so they are MGTOW. How can MGTOW be a movement when most MGTOW have never even heard of it?

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Occupy didn’t have common goals.  It has some slogans that drew people out, but it was a mass roll your own protest against the state of things, for dozens of reasons.  I was in Occupy and there wasn’t common goals.  Where I was, they couldn’t even agree on having regional meetings.

If you feel I am wrong, please state what the common goals of Occupy were.  It was more of a flash mob of this and that, a ton of voices, and a blank slate which had the world project into it.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

Occupy didn’t have common goals.

“GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME!” was the common goal.

Where I was, they couldn’t even agree on having regional meetings.

So they were incompetent and disorganized. The point is they TRIED to organize and have regional meetings to promote a goal.

MGTOW, in contrast, are unorganized, by definition. They can’t even be disorganized because organization is antithetical to Going Your Own Way. When MGTOW get together it’s for camaraderie. And beer. It’s not to promote any agenda or goal.

If you feel I am wrong

“Feel”?

Seriously?

I’m dealing out facts and definitions here, not feelings. MGTOW do not meet any of the criteria for a movement. None of them. MGTOW lack a common goal. The things that make a MGHOW are themselves also not goals; they are the opposite of goals. MGTOW are reactive, not proactive. MGTOW have no common ethical or moral stance, but are defined by their individual lifestyle choice for self preservation.

Worse, when you try to turn MGTOW into a movement, you will only f~~~ it up. The greatest strength of MGTOW is that they are NOT a movement. When you tell the world: “Men are protesting the injustice of our gynocentric society by refusing marriage,” you get laughed at. When you tell the world: “When you cooked the laws and the courts and everything so badly against men, who have had the short end of the stick for millenia, men are naturally going to take their labor and walk the f~~~ away. What did you thing was going to happen?” they stop laughing. The first is trying to treat MGTOW as a movement. The second is recognizing MGTOW as a phenomenon. See the difference.

tl;dr: If you want to join a movement, I’m sure the Men’s Rights people would love to have you. And any donations you might send their way. But as a Man Going His Own Way, I am going to once again ask you to stop calling us something we manifestly are not.

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