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Philo 3 years, 9 months ago.
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So I’ve known this woman for over 28 years… at this point we’re closer to brother and sister than our own brothers and sisters, definitely no romantic expectations on either side but someone who has been a major part of my life for a long time… aaand it turns out she’s a feminist.
We covered a lot of ground but I’ll give you the short version. Her claim is that men and women are the same, that gender and gender roles are social constructs and that men have dominated and oppressed women since the dawn of time purely because men are physically bigger and stronger, hit harder and are more “rapey”. Yeah, she said rapey,
My argument is that men and women are biologically different but complimentary and that our differences express themselves in different abilities which are, for men, creative destruction and, for women, social influence. Generally speaking (because of course I never say “all” and “always”) men have dominated women because men’s power is overt and quantifiable and men have embraced it whereas women’s power is covert and nebulous and women deny the fact that they have it at all.
I stated that men are instinctually driven to compete for the attention of young, healthy and beautiful women in order to be able to inseminate as many of them as possible and that, following this, we have a desire to protect and provide. So a happy man has traditionally been a man who can f~~~ around as much as he wants but who is also looked up to and respected as being a good protector and provider. The flip side of this coin is that women are instinctively driven to select a dominant man (thus the competition() and get impreginated by her and then keep him around to protect and provide for her and her offspring. In other words, women are historically dependent on men and happy women, historically, have acknowledged and embraced this fact.
She disagreed that there is any such thing as feminine power and asserted that women could beat men and run things better (being more emotional and nurturing, ironically not seen as powers) if only they were big enough, strong enough, hit harder and got rapey enough… which I pointed out would basically make them men, according to her argument, and no longer women at all.
“So if men are bigger, stronger and badder than women and women don’t have any complimentary and matching ability to make them equal… then how are we to accept the premise that women are equal? If they were more like men, they’d be men… so unless they have a complimentary and balancing power which they are either not acknowledging or not using, they are not actually equal.”
Silence.
I asserted that women DO have. a complimentary and equal power which is influence and they use it to get men to protect and provide for them, which they have successfully done since the dawn of time, and that they select the largest and most powerful men to do their bidding while also making it look like they are totally helpless in the matter. The only thing that has changed between traditional times and now is that individual women aren’t going after individual men any more, women collectively are going after men collectively by extracting our resources through taxation and coercion and having the state act as a surrogate husband and father in our places using our money.
“So if women don’t need men, then why do they take our money for themselves through divorce courts, alimony, child support and welfare programs? Why don’t they just band together and take care of each other?”
“Because women only make $0.77 for every $1.00 a man makes.”
“Bulls~~~. Prove it.”
She opened a Forbes website that stated the wage gap only appears when comparing gross incomes by gender across the board, but that it breaks down to nothing when you factor in job choices, years of consistent work experience, negotiating tactics, hours worked, hazard pay, etc.
“So again, if women can survive without men, why don’t women either earn more money or learn to get by with less and support themselves and each other and leave men’s money alone?”
This is where she started to cry.
So yeah, I made my friend of 28 years cry.
“You’re saying women are s~~~ty and that we suck and do all these terrible things and here I am a woman, you think that about me?”
“I never said women depending on men was s~~~ty, I said it was natural. And I said it in general. If you’re different, then you’re different… and even if you’re not, I never said it was bad, I am only saying its bad when women do it but then deny that it’s true,”
After a few hours she re-engaged with the discussion and said she agrees with everything I said, just that she thinks women are s~~~ because women’s power is s~~~ because it’s all manipulation and not as much fun exciting as killing things and blowing s~~~ up and she feels like crap because she depends on her husband for survival and she knows he could leave her at any time now that she’s over 40 and doesn’t feel like she has anything to contribute.
I told her “If you want to see yourself as equal, figure out what you’re contributing that’s worth what he’s putting in and stand on that. Otherwise, admit that you’re dependent and be grateful for it… don’t tell men that you don’t need us and then secretly resent us for taking care of you.”
Thank you Patrice O’Neal for opening up my eyes to the one thing that burns my ass the most about women… the fact that they know they need us but they’re too damn arrogant and proud to admit it to us so they have to s~~~ all over us in order to never have to feel bad about it or show gratitude for it. At least the damn dogs need us and aren’t afraid to show it,
Well done Sir, well done.
"We can no more stop him from marrying than we can stop him from making a well researched decision to poke his eyes out with a stick."
-SidecarThe interesting thing about arrogance is that in a certain light it can resemble hubris very closely. The wonderful thing about hubris is that it inevitably ends badly for the one with it. So I say, wait, and let their own actions end them in time. It is pointless to argue with someone if you have nothing to gain from it, and men really have little to gain from women anymore.
Be like water and flow around the feminist.
Nirvanna is never having to worry about a woman ever again.
Epic. Favorited. And bookmarked. I , too, can count 3 or 4 “female friends” with a 28 year history between us — going as far back as puberty.
Have experienced a nearly identical interaction such as your example.This is where she started to cry. So yeah, I made my friend of 28 years cry.
Have done it too. This is what I call “breaking them down”. A natural process. Movie scripts are written about this. Rhett and Scarlett. Sam and Diane from Cheers. Shrek and Fiona. Maddy and David from Moonlighting. Mr. And Mrs. Smith. My Fair Lady. Slaying Her Dragon (inner bitch). The Taming of the Shrew as it were. If you know the Shakespearean story, it’s frightening how necessary and common it really is. William knew his s~~~.
They are all Eliza Doolittle and you’re Professor Henry Higgins who makes her cry. You evil bastard. I truly believe the “fire breathing dragon” in fairy tales is about this very fake competitive barrier …. and I have turned a few extreme c~~~s out to the point of tears.
The script / dialogue is always the same.
“Poor little me. Im just a fragile woman who makes 77 cents on the dollar. How dare you speak to me that way..”It’s very rare for a female to understand her TRUE feminine power. They have no idea the way to a man’s heart. It’s the EASIEST thing in the world to make a man want to come back to her – and only her – repeatedly. But they attack the one thing necessary for this to work. His “ego”. They go right for it , compete with it using their own, and want to rip it away – instead of encouraging and fueling it — because he needs it to become great. It’s the VERY FIRST THING the modern female attacks.
Ego in men is AWESOME.
Ego in women is repugnant.Yes the male ego is dangerous too but the man will always pay for that. The female ego has no balancing force to keep her in check. It will run wild if unharnessed and a man will pay for that too. She won’t. Her “feminine power” (and biological destiny) is to refuel and reinvigorate the man and make him feel like he can accomplish anything. It barely requires any effort on her part. But your modern woman couldn’t be any further away from understanding this. She is lost. She is battling with only herself and losing.
I will eventually find a better way to put this down, but for now you just described exactly this in other words.
They are not “equal”. They are complimentary.Being a female who needs him … IS her strength.
“A man’s sexual choice is the result and the sum of his fundamental convictions…. He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects his deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience a sense of self-esteem. “
― Ayn Rand, Atlas ShruggedThe modern female doesn’t WANT you to have any self-esteem.
She doesn’t understand “King and Queen”. She’s thinks she’s the Queen and man is her subject.
It will never work out for either that way.If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.How can there be equal among men and women even among men there isn’t equality? Rich are better off than the poor. The well educated are better off than the high school drop out. I wouldn’t waste my time talking to women about equalty. I have tried it with one my aunts. All she was using shaming and all feminists bulls~~~.
My other aunt actually told me to go my own way before i discovered the magnetosphere. In the end most women don’t give a f~~~ about men."If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
How can there be equal among men and women even among men there isn’t equality?
HOW RIGHT YOU ARE.
She doesn’t even treat men equally herself(!).
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Being a female who needs him … IS her strength.
I agree completely… helping a man to become the man he imagines himself to be… being supportive and loyal and encouraging him to reach out and catch his own greatness… and being able to be a part of it when he does… that is what women should be aspiring to,
Say this to a feminist and watch her blood boil over. And why? Because she is essentially jealous. She hates the greatness of a man because she wants it for herself but knows she can never have it and, therefore, hates herself for not being a man. And naturally she takes that self-hatred out on you.
The question that comes to my mind is would you rather be an A-list sidekick or a D-list hero. Batman’s ego might be his ultimate downfall, but Robin’s ego is Nightwing.
They are trying to play the man’s game against us. Too bad sweetie, we’ve been doing it all our lives, and over the last 10,000 years of history. If I cant win with strength of arms, then cunning should do the lion’s share of the work. in WW II, Germany had the better soldiers and equipment, they still lost tho. Women are in that position. They have alot of real advantages, but they fight stupid, and will lose just like Germany did.
Silpheed's Mom Quote: "Having PMS is no excuse to be a bitch.."
e question that comes to my mind is would you rather be an A-list sidekick or a D-list hero
She can be my side salad, but she’ll never be the steak.
Together it’s a great meal, but they just don’t get it.One woman I knew understood this instinctually and went with it. Maybe two.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Well… at least she admired men are stronger. Sometimes they don’t even recognize that to be true. Great post!
Doc,
Thank you again for yet another great insightful read. I always believed men/women were supposed to have mostly symbiotic relationships. I never understood anyone who thought being a parasite as being mutually beneficial to the host (speaking in a relationship context).
It is always comforting to read/hear that other men experience the same type of bulls~~~, and I am not alone or imagining it.Cheers
There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it
That is so revealing, and powerful. So many ideas can come from this one experience. Oh how feminism has poisoned humanity and for the better of it has torn the symbiotic relationship between Men and. Women so that we see what happens when the female is left to her own vices. A lesson that will forever remain with humanity long after feminism is dead and gone and buried. As long as we humans keep living this fantasy we will never see the true capability of human potential. For f~~~ sake we are killing ourselves because of pride. F~~~ING PRIDE. GOD DAMN PRIDE.
Society live's as if we have reached the pinnacle of human potential. Technological Advancement and Innovation, intellectualism, critical thinking is substituted for useless innovations, nasty narcissistic games, tyrannical laws that destroy the very foundation of family, and the world as we know it.
aaand it turns out she’s a feminist.
Gotta go. Bye!
We covered a lot of ground but I’ll give you the short version. Her claim is that men and women are the same, that gender and gender roles are social constructs and that men have dominated and oppressed women since the dawn of time purely because men are physically bigger and stronger, hit harder and are more “rapey”. Yeah, she said rapey,
Then, by her first statement, she acknowledges that men and women are not the same.
What’s fascinating to me is the idea that, after acknowledging actual and quite pronounced physical differences, bad logicians don’t want to also acknowledge that mental capacity and prediliction – which is of course based on physical structures – might also quite logically be different as well.
Ashkenazic Jews, Samoans, and Pygmies all look very different and physically have different body types. Want to bet their personalities and mental abilities are different, too? Different breeds of dogs can interbreed and produce viable offspring. That doesn’t mean that all breeds are the same.
Not wandering too far down that path . . . Men and women look very diferent and physically have different body types. Want to bet their personalities and mental abilities are different, too?
Epic. Favorited. And bookmarked. I , too, can count 3 or 4 “female friends” with a 28 year history between us — going as far back as puberty.
Have experienced a nearly identical interaction such as your example.
I lost a female friend of 35 years over a Facebook quarrel. I was supposed to apologize profusely, take some s~~~, and go on with things. I decided, having played this part repeatedly, that it wasn’t worth it. I also stopped using Facebook (which was quite occasional).
I recently got back in touch with an old female friend of some twenty-five years acquaintance, right before fully digesting the Red Pill, becoming MGTOW, and joining this web site. It’s not going great, and we’re vaguely keeping in touch. My options are to simply shut up and parrot the dominant paradigm or lose the friendship. At this point I’m basically like Meh . . .
“A man’s sexual choice is the result and the sum of his fundamental convictions…. He will always be attracted to the woman who reflects his deepest vision of himself, the woman whose surrender permits him to experience a sense of self-esteem. “
― Ayn Rand, Atlas ShruggedThe modern female doesn’t WANT you to have any self-esteem.
She doesn’t understand “King and Queen”. She’s thinks she’s the Queen and man is her subject.
It will never work out for either that way.No, it never will. Feminism leads to societal collapse, always.
"You can either love women, or understand women. You can't do both. Because once you understand women, you realize that there is really nothing to love."
She opened a Forbes website that stated the wage gap only appears when comparing gross incomes by gender across the board, but that it breaks down to nothing when you factor in job choices, years of consistent work experience, negotiating tactics, hours worked, hazard pay, etc.
Yup. Turns out when you combine data, individual trends do not necessarily mean trends in the aggregate. Those trends can disappear, or even reverse. It’s called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox
After a few hours she re-engaged with the discussion and said she agrees with everything I said, just that she thinks women are s~~~ because women’s power is s~~~ because it’s all manipulation and not as much fun exciting as killing things and blowing s~~~ up and she feels like crap because she depends on her husband for survival and she knows he could leave her at any time now that she’s over 40 and doesn’t feel like she has anything to contribute.
Wow, seriously? My experiences are that if you argue with someone, he tends to stick his feet into the dirt harder, not relent, no matter how eloquent and logical you are. I thought it was impossible to win an argument, much less against a woman, even less against a feminist.
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
I’m surprised, and happy, to see how many Rand fans are here!
I agree with her on pretty much everything, but her theory of sex is one thing I’m ambivalent about. She has this very romantic view of sex (i.e., volitional, representing a man’s values), which translated really well into the construction of her dramatic plots, but it doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense in the real world. The sex drive, like the desire for food, water, rest, and the like, is one of the most basic urges. Wouldn’t it be ridiculous to create some romantic image of the need to p~~~, about how p~~~ing is representative of your highest values, or something like that?
". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée
She can be my side salad, but she’ll never be the steak.
Together it’s a great meal, but they just don’t get it.During the brief period I was engaged, I told her that I was the coffee in the relationship and she was the cream and sugar, I can drink my coffee black and usually do, but nobody other than a homeless guy is gonna drink a cup of just cram and sugar. She got it, which was good, but it turned out I prefer Jameson in my coffee so we didn’t work out.
Women will always try to control men, but men will dominate them. It’s Genesis 3:16. Say what you will about the Bible, it pretty much got that generalization right…
Just a misogynist virgin hiding away in his mother's basement. Nothing to see here...
For me, thr irony was that she kept accusing me of being mysogynistic and saying terrible things about women… but the truth is it was her saying the terrible things. Every time I’d say “influence” she’d say “manipulation” and every time I’d say “depend on” she’d say “mooch off of” and so forth.
My point is and always has been that this is our base nature and that understanding and acceptance of that nature makes everything clear… there’s no judgement in stating the fact that women rely on men for their provision and protection, but she’d always hear it as me saying “women are s~~~ and just living off men.”
In fact, SHE is the mysogynist. I’m just describing the world as I see it, given that I accept that women are driven try to get a man to pay their bills because they are mostly incapable of doing it for themselves and that this is a natural fact, not an evil conspiracy.
She sees that incapacity as weakness, I just see it as an expression of our species’ sexual dimorphism. To me, it’s no more of a weakness than men not being able to produce offspring is a weakness. It must suck to feel you are independent when you really aren’t but hey, them’s the breaks, ladies. Quit fronting and just accept that you require our support and be grateful for it rather than taking it from us while pretending you don’t need it and we can end all this.
Yeah, like that’s going to happen.
How can there be equal among men and women even among men there isn’t equality?
HOW RIGHT YOU ARE.
This is an interesting point, it really is moot to talk about equality with men when there is no equality among men, even.
I was speaking with a guy recently who I thought was a pimp… but I guess I hit his soft spot. In the days leading up to the last Rhonda Rousey fight, he was always going on about how she was as good as a man and could prove it if they’d only give her a chance. I guess she was his unicorn or something. My response was always “Sure, she may be as good as a man, but WHICH man?”
Rhonda Rousey could kick my ass for sure. I’m no challenge at all. Most men and a lot of women could easily take me in a fist fight,.. which is why I don’t fight with my fists. But could she beat the worst guy fighter in the UFC? Could she beat a man who was the same hight, weight and reach as her who had the same level of experience and skill as her? On a good day, could she beat a man better than her? Because that’s how fights work. If you only fight the people weaker than you, you’re not fighting… you’ve got to beat the people better than you.
So could Rhonda Rousey beat a man? Sure, but can she fight as good as the men… work her way through the ranks of guys who are at or near her level, beat them and become the best? No f~~~ing way. So no, she is not equal to the men. And now we know she’s not even equal to all the other women.
The point is that there is no across the board equality in terms of skill, ability and outcome. Equal rights and representations under the law, sure. But women already have that equality.What they want is to be seen as being just as capable, strong and independent as men and, while the best of the women may beat the worst of the men, their bell curve lags clearly behind ours on pretty much every comparison that matters to them.
No matter what they do or say, women will never be as good or better men than men are… they’ll just be worse women for trying.
I lost a female friend of 35 years over a Facebook quarrel. I was supposed to apologize profusely, take some s~~~, and go on with things. I decided, having played this part repeatedly, that it wasn’t worth it.
Don’t you dare cave. Come see me first. I have been through this kind of s~~~ with my sister in law… i won’t get into it, but they didn’t speak to me for 4 years — even when I stretched my hand out at Christmas. I NEVER caved or apologized – because I did nothing wrong – and it was a true test of my character. My mother stepped in, cried and begged me to apologize just to appease her, and have peace between brothers. I refused to apologize to that bitch.
…. and won.
We’re all civil and she doesn’t f~~~ with me anymore. She makes an effort herself now, It’s the way it should be. Back then she thought I was a punching bag like her husband. She thought wrong. Glad we established that.
I’m surprised, and happy, to see how many Rand fans are here!
Loved that book. The title actually compelled me to pick it up. I thought it very clever and it opened a little world.
During the brief period I was engaged, I told her that I was the coffee in the relationship and she was the cream and sugar, I
I had a GF look me dead in the eye and say she wanted to be “the number one thing in a man’s life”. I couldn’t do it. I could NOT put her first. Second OK. First consideration before myself? F~~~ YOU for asking me for that. How LOW would his self-esteem have to be for that – and how selfish is she? She wasn’t even my wife! Self-sacrifice has always been a bulls~~~ concept – even thought I have done it! – but not to that extent.
I hope she and her new doormat will be very happy together,
Say what you will about the Bible, it pretty much got that generalization right…
Adam and Eve is the truest story ever told: “woman destroys mans paradise”.
Plays out in divorce courts every single day. The good book authors knew that s~~~.For me, the irony was that she kept accusing me of being mysogynistic and saying terrible things about women… but the truth is it was her saying the terrible things. Every time I’d say “influence” she’d say “manipulation” and every time I’d say “depend on” she’d say “mooch off of” and so forth. My point is and always has been that this is our base nature and that understanding and acceptance of that nature makes everything clear… there’s no judgement in stating the fact that women rely on men for their provision and protection, but she’d always hear it as me saying “women are s~~~ and just living off men.”
In fact, SHE is the mysogynist.
We see that every day.
• instead of saying “he’s protective” they’ll say “he’s oppressive”
• instead of saying “he’s smart” they’ll complain “he demeans my intelligence”
• instead of saying “he’s hard-working” they’ll say “he’s obsessed with work”
• instead of saying “he’s confident” they’ll say “he’s an ego-monster”You CAN’T have a relationship with that. You can’t.
Because you’re always going to be the asshole no matter what you do.
Even your positive qualities will be spun into a negative.If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.incredibly good read friends ..clear insight into what is at the root of the problem between the sexes …this is why i’m here .” the fog lifts and the clouds part as the truth , like light from heaven falls ….( didn’t know i was a poet eh ? ) …..
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