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IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) 1 year, 12 months ago.
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Wow… I was away for a few days and returned to two and a half pages of articulate reasoning! Well, from the subsequent posts I’ve read, I’m not sure we’ve quite found a solution yet but it’s nice to see that we’re all in agreement that there IS a problem that needs to be addressed.
I was going to selectively quote and post but on reflection, that would take about a week. All I will say is, I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the debate thus far (including the video links).
As an aside, Doc, why are you so prone to derogatory aspersions? We’re all in the same gang here and we all want to improve our collective lot in life, be it social, economic or otherwise. You’re clearly well versed in economic principles and I enjoy reading your erudite explanations but I wish you wouldn’t be so intolerant of your brothers’ views. You may see us as unrealistic ideologues but we’re just trying to probe the subject matter for plausible alternatives by recognising the problems.
In any case, thanks guys, great discussion! đ
What’s wrong with bitching? My country was started because people were bitching about taxation without representation. The bitching stirred the emotions of the population and then changed the world. As I’ve said, identifying the issue comes first, the solution doesn’t need to accompany it in order to validate it.
Well, someone certainly is letting the debate get to them.
I think ultimately, the majority is tired of people who don’t work at all, telling them that they don’t work hard enough. This astronomical hypocrisy that people are supposed to produce more than they consume while the ruling class does nothing *but* consume by printing money. Then they have the nerve to point at the people who, born into a system not of their choosing, are unable to find their way, and say “Look! Look at those people! They are lazy, worthless bums. They are costing YOU taxpayers *all* of your money!” while the Pentagon simply “loses” 3 trillion dollars in an unknown void, without any accountability. Shouting to the populace “YOU MUST EARN YOUR LIVING AND ALSO EARN MINE FOR ME, BUT DON’T YOU DARE BE LIKE US AND EXPECT SOMEONE ELSE TO PAY YOUR WAY. MEANWHILE, WE WILL PRINT MONEY TO PURCHASE WHATEVER WE LIKE AND CHARGE IT TO *YOUR* FUTURE OFFSPRING AS NATIONAL DEBT. IF YOU MAKE ANY EFFORT TO OPPOSE US, WE WILL PAY SOMEONE WITH PRINTED MONEY TO JAIL OR KILL YOU, OR SIMPLY ARRANGE FOR YOU TO DIE IN A WAR.” Anyone who takes the time out to actually think about it, and understands how it works, realizes the game is rigged, and that this is how.
Then they have the nerve to point at the people who, born into a system not of their choosing, are unable to find their way, and say âLook! Look at those people! They are lazy, worthless bums. They are costing YOU taxpayers *all* of your money!â while the Pentagon simply âlosesâ 3 trillion dollars in an unknown void, without any accountability.
They are both problems. Remember Mitt Romney’s 47% comment, about 47% of households not paying any federal income tax? Well research it a bit…the number obviously fluctuates slightly year to year but its a true statistic…40-50% of American’s aren’t paying any federal income tax. I realize some people are handicapped or chronically ill and need help but I highly doubt almost half of our working age adults would fall into that category, or be people that actually work hard and make good choices…we do have quite a few people in this country that are just lazy leeches, or people who’s only problem is self inflicted stupidity.
So now…that 3 trillion you mention the Pentagon “losing,” where is it all coming from? The upper half of society that pays the taxes obviously.
So basically you are saying people who don’t pay any taxes are slaves to the system because the government is wasting their money…only the government isn’t taking their money, and in many cases the government is actually giving them money.
If you make enough to be in the upper half of income earners in America, you are top 10% in the world. If you want to equate that to slavery, maybe you should liberate yourself by going to work in a Mexican sweatshop, Chinese factory, or be a farmer in a third world country and see what your standard of living is like, and there are plenty of areas in the world where any of those conditions would be a step up because you don’t have to worry about any warlords or extremists taking everything you own or killing you on a whim.
Then they have the nerve to point at the people who, born into a system not of their choosing, are unable to find their way, and say âLook! Look at those people! They are lazy, worthless bums. They are costing YOU taxpayers *all* of your money!â while the Pentagon simply âlosesâ 3 trillion dollars in an unknown void, without any accountability.
Have you ever heard the saying two wrongs don’t make a right? Just because the government can’t handle money doesn’t mean the % of our population essentially being non producing leeches is acceptable. If we had less people leeching the system and a more efficient government that is held more accountable than they currently are, we’d be better off. Fixing one or the other still leaves us in a f~~~ed up position.
The fact is the bottom 40-50% of adults aren’t even paying any federal income taxes. How can you say these people are slaves when the other half of society has to constantly pick up their tab? I realize we’d never get this number down to 0%, as we have handicapped people and chronically ill people who simply can’t work and need help, but almost 1/2 of society is not contributing and you want to act like its all the fault of the government because they took a bunch of money from higher income earners and wasted it?
Here’s one for ya.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/top-20-of-earners-pay-84-of-income-tax-1428674384
The top 20% of earners pay 84% of income taxes. The bottom 20% get paid by Uncle Sam. How the heck is that slavery? Slavery involved working if you want to live, not doing nothing and being provided for.
Also…here’s something else you might enjoy checking out.
Basically an individual earning about 43k a year is in the upper 50% of Americans. An individual earning 43,000 USD a year is in the upper 7% of the world population. Maybe you should go bust your ass in a Mexican sweatshop or a Chinese factory for a few years and then come back and tell us all how you are a slave to the system here.
Have you ever heard the saying two wrongs donât make a right? Just because the government canât handle money doesnât mean the % of our population essentially being non producing leeches is acceptable. If we had less people leeching the system and a more efficient government that is held more accountable than they currently are, weâd be better off. Fixing one or the other still leaves us in a f~~~ed up position.
The fact is the bottom 40-50% of adults arenât even paying any federal income taxes. How can you say these people are slaves when the other half of society has to constantly pick up their tab? I realize weâd never get this number down to 0%, as we have handicapped people and chronically ill people who simply canât work and need help, but almost 1/2 of society is not contributing and you want to act like its all the fault of the government because they took a bunch of money from higher income earners and wasted it?
Hereâs one for ya.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/top-20-of-earners-pay-84-of-income-tax-1428674384
The top 20% of earners pay 84% of income taxes. The bottom 20% get paid by Uncle Sam. How the heck is that slavery? Slavery involved working if you want to live, not doing nothing and being provided for.
AlsoâŚhereâs something else you might enjoy checking out.
Basically an individual earning about 43k a year is in the upper 50% of Americans. An individual earning 43,000 USD a year is in the upper 7% of the world population. Maybe you should go bust your ass in a Mexican sweatshop or a Chinese factory for a few years and then come back and tell us all how you are a slave to the system here.
Those statistics are false propaganda. Firstly, when the government steals your right to do something for yourself, and sells it back to you, it is called a “license” or “permit”. The cards are stacked against people so much that even little children aren’t authorized to sell lemonade in the streets without getting harassed. The top 20% of earners pay 84% of income taxes? Hardly. There are plenty of offshore loopholes in taxes so that high earners can get out of paying, as well as entire libraries full of write-0ffs and special deals. Just because a business pays our income taxes for us OUT OF OUR PAYCHECKS, doesn’t mean they are paying the taxes. We are still the ones paying them. Secondly, nothing is funded from taxes. They are a financial vice to prevent the working class from becoming too wealthy, in order to perpetuate production. It isn’t the case AT ALL that they “took a bunch of money from higher income earners and wasted it”, the 3 trillion dollars was printed and added to the system. If government activity *actually was* budgeted out of our taxes, we wouldn’t have a “national debt”, which is really just a number representing how much money was printed to fund government, at the expense of the purchasing power and future prosperity of the populace. You obviously have no idea how it really works, and you’re also buying into the lies and propaganda of “The Wall Street Journal”, which is representative of the people benefiting from the rigged game. The government is over 45% of the GDP now…funded by excessive printing. I agree with you that the slavery in Mexico and China is worse.. but at this rate, that equivalent circumstance will arrive in the US. You really can’t expect people to be excited about and motivated to run their engines full throttle in neutral gear. The work force is falling apart because the incentive to work has been stolen by clamping people into a position where financial growth isn’t possible. They just spin their wheels.. maintaining a bare existence. It’s no wonder they go from job to job to job. Once again:
1. Government budget is not actually funded by taxes.
2. Taxes are a financial clamp to prevent serfs from escaping serfdom, and to perpetuate production. The fiat currency is backed by labor.
3. Government funding is derived from printing money, or from “borrowing” printed money from another “nation”.I’m speaking of masses of land that government owns, which it claims belong to the people, as well as foreclosures, not just in Detroit. I can walk around my town right now, and there are properties on the damned city corners with rotting houses just sitting there. There is absolutely no excuse for preventing people from living on a property like that while no one uses it. It’s getting to where just about every city has multiple properties like that.
The top 20% of earners pay 84% of income taxes? Hardly
Considering the top 20% own over 80% of the wealth I don’t know why you want to try to deny they pay over 80% of income taxes. Google it.
Just because a business pays our income taxes for us OUT OF OUR PAYCHECKS, doesnât mean they are paying the taxes.
Yeah I agree. Too bad nobody ever made that claim.
Secondly, nothing is funded from taxes.
So why doesn’t the government have a pile of money from all the taxes they collect that they don’t fund anything with? The problem is they spend all the money they take in via taxation plus more.
It isnât the case AT ALL that they âtook a bunch of money from higher income earners and wasted itâ,
Yeah…because the government doesn’t do this…lol…
You obviously have no idea how it really works, and youâre also buying into the lies and propaganda of âThe Wall Street Journalâ, which is representative of the people benefiting from the rigged game.
So google it…its a number you can verify from a variety of sources. But uh…I suppose some random youtube video is a much more reliable source we should all take as gospel.
The government is over 45% of the GDP now
What’s your point? This disgusts me too. I think we should have a more limited government and a balanced budget. My point earlier in the thread was that personal debt isn’t slavery, its a tool and some people are too stupid to use it responsibly, but government debt on the other hand is forcing debt on to people against their will.
The real problem is too many American’s these days just vote for freebies. Its not the libertarians or the tea party folk who are the problem, its the give me free s~~~ now and I don’t care about the future repercussions type people that are the problem. Why do you think Bernie Sanders is so popular among the college age crowd…he wants to pay all their student loans! The guy literally wants to increase spending by 17 trillion over the next decade…no credible talk of decreasing the deficit(other then generic f~~~ the rich propaganda)…just more debt and more spending to give people free s~~~! Its not the rich or the elites f~~~ing society…its society getting exactly what they vote for.
Iâm speaking of masses of land that government owns, which it claims belong to the people, as well as foreclosures, not just in Detroit. I can walk around my town right now, and there are properties on the damned city corners with rotting houses just sitting there. There is absolutely no excuse for preventing people from living on a property like that while no one uses it. Itâs getting to where just about every city has multiple properties like that.
Most federal lands are for preservation or recreational use…and they remain that way because again…that’s what people vote for.
Besides that though…those properties you talk about…there is one excuse preventing people from living there. Someone owns them. What do you want to do, just start confiscating people’s property?
If its completely abandoned and town owned due to years of not paying property taxes…well just go to Zillow and do a search for homes sold in Detroit. Look how many sold for 1 dollar…its just symbolic, they are literally given away. The problem is…nobody wants them, and nobody wants to put money into repairing them. What are you going to do take a homeless guy and put him in one of those abandoned houses. He’s just going to squat in it and let it continue to rot…what then? Let him live there until the roof rots and then set him up with a slightly nicer dilapidated house?
62% of people have less than 1000 dollars in savings.
The poor are not paying their fair share.
http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/04/01/us-smartphone-use-in-2015/
Yet 64% of American’s can apparently afford a smart phone. Interesting how that works.
I find a lot of the time people are their own worst enemies. Even if you just want to assume its the bottom 62% of society that have no savings, quite a few of those people are making 40-60k a year. There is really no excuse to have no savings while making that kind of money other than you can’t differentiate between wants and needs.
The top 20% of earners pay 84% of income taxes? Hardly
Considering the top 20% own over 80% of the wealth I donât know why you want to try to deny they pay over 80% of income taxes. Google it.
Just because a business pays our income taxes for us OUT OF OUR PAYCHECKS, doesnât mean they are paying the taxes.
Yeah I agree. Too bad nobody ever made that claim.
Secondly, nothing is funded from taxes.
So why doesnât the government have a pile of money from all the taxes they collect that they donât fund anything with? The problem is they spend all the money they take in via taxation plus more.
It isnât the case AT ALL that they âtook a bunch of money from higher income earners and wasted itâ,
YeahâŚbecause the government doesnât do thisâŚlolâŚ
You obviously have no idea how it really works, and youâre also buying into the lies and propaganda of âThe Wall Street Journalâ, which is representative of the people benefiting from the rigged game.
So google itâŚits a number you can verify from a variety of sources. But uhâŚI suppose some random youtube video is a much more reliable source we should all take as gospel.
The government is over 45% of the GDP now
Whatâs your point? This disgusts me too. I think we should have a more limited government and a balanced budget. My point earlier in the thread was that personal debt isnât slavery, its a tool and some people are too stupid to use it responsibly, but government debt on the other hand is forcing debt on to people against their will.
The real problem is too many Americanâs these days just vote for freebies. Its not the libertarians or the tea party folk who are the problem, its the give me free s~~~ now and I donât care about the future repercussions type people that are the problem. Why do you think Bernie Sanders is so popular among the college age crowdâŚhe wants to pay all their student loans! The guy literally wants to increase spending by 17 trillion over the next decadeâŚno credible talk of decreasing the deficit(other then generic f~~~ the rich propaganda)âŚjust more debt and more spending to give people free s~~~! Its not the rich or the elites f~~~ing societyâŚits society getting exactly what they vote for.
Ok, Beer. I will address these one at a time:
Firstly, statistics can be fabricated. Using statistics that were provided to you by the ruling class, to support the ruling class, is just naive. They are going to tell you what they want you to think.
“So why doesnât the government have a pile of money from all the taxes they collect that they donât fund anything with? The problem is they spend all the money they take in via taxation plus more.” Because, Beer, 97% of currency is electronic. Again they do not fund anything from taxes, they fund it from printed money. Taxes are just a financial clamp. I’ve already explained that to you. That’s why when it is proposed that the rich get taxed, they yell ‘You shouldn’t punish success!”, but when a worker works over time, it bumps him up in the tax bracket which absorbs the extra wealth he created for his self. If you were working class, you would know that. After so many hours, it becomes no longer worth it to work over time.
“YeahâŚbecause the government doesnât do thisâŚlol⌔
I’m not saying the government doesn’t waste money, of course it does. I’m saying that the printing press/database is the source of the money being wasted, not taxes. Get it?My point about the government being 45%of the GDP resulting from being funded by printed money is completely relevant? Why can’t you put the pieces of the puzzle together yourself on that?
Let me ask you this simple question: Do you view me as an opponent for a debate, or a collaborator for a discussion? Do you seek to “win”, or do you seek to mutually understand the truth?
“Yet 64% of Americanâs can apparently afford a smart phone”
Do you not realize that the internet has become an absolute necessity now? Firstly, electronic banking is almost the only type of banking left. Secondly, if you are to apply to a job it MUST be done online. If you can’t afford a computer, your alternative is to buy a smart phone, which costs *considerably* less than a computer, and now days has similar processing power. A smart phone is no longer a luxury item. Furthermore, how is an employer to reach you without a phone?“There is really no excuse to have no savings while making that kind of money other than you canât differentiate between wants and needs.”
Beer, this is simply not true. These discussions have been an echo chamber as to why you should invest, rather than save due to the loss of value over time because of inflation. In addition, mandatory and compulsory artificial costs and taxes continue to be implemented that discourage savings, and do you know why? Because Keynesian economics, that’s why. If the spending stops, the economy collapses. Spend spend spend. The government punishes spending because a fiat system necessitates it. As for the lower class, they barely earn enough to eat, pay rent, insurance, phone bill, etc and simply do not make enough money to generate a surplus that could start a savings account. A $50k salary isn’t as common place as you might believe. In some places, you can hardly find a job that pays more than $12/hr. People who don’t have the means to break the financial restraints that are placed on acquiring education to qualify themselves for $50,000 jobs are stuck taking what they get because their survival has been tethered to the acquisition of currency. As for federal lands, and the properties I was talking about, see the other post “A Few Words in Favor of Fiat Currency”, because I posted an explanation there, and I’m not going to repost it here. This jumping back and forth discussing the same thing on two different posts has become tedious.
Because, Beer, 97% of currency is electronic. Again they do not fund anything from taxes, they fund it from printed money. Taxes are just a financial clamp. Iâve already explained that to you. Thatâs why when it is proposed that the rich get taxed, they yell âYou shouldnât punish success!â, but when a worker works over time, it bumps him up in the tax bracket which absorbs the extra wealth he created for his self. If you were working class, you would know that. After so many hours, it becomes no longer worth it to work over time.
There is no extra tax code for overtime. All that happens is you make maybe 1,000 dollars one week…taxes are taken out of your paycheck at a proper rate for if you earn 52,000 a year. If you work a ton of overtime and make 2,000 the next week, taxes are taken out at the proper rate for if you make 104,000 a year. In the end all that matters is your gross for the year…if you make 100,000 dollars and it was 50k base, 50k overtime you’ll pay exactly the same as someone who made 100k base. You always have the option to claim another exemption on your pay roll if your overtime tends to be erratic and you’d rather not have the government hold so much of your money interest free until tax return time each year.
If you actually had a job and ever did your own taxes, you would know that.
Iâm not saying the government doesnât waste money, of course it does. Iâm saying that the printing press/database is the source of the money being wasted, not taxes. Get it?
Ok, and you are wrong. They collect taxes, spend it all, then borrow/print more to spend. Get it?
Let me ask you this simple question: Do you view me as an opponent for a debate, or a collaborator for a discussion? Do you seek to âwinâ, or do you seek to mutually understand the truth?
I view you as a broke putz who watched one too many youtube conspiracy videos who would rather whine the world is stacked against him then actually do something for yourself. You don’t want to mutually understand “the truth,” you just want everyone to admit you are right…you’d rather cry inflation erodes your savings, of which you probably don’t have any anyhow or you’d understand how easy it is to create other revenue streams with your savings like dividends and rental incomes that will out pace inflation…and even if we theoretically had 0% inflation people would still be interested in ways that their wealth could create passive income streams, and yes, I understand you despise people for creating passive income for themselves, because you obviously don’t even understand this is what everyone who actually plans for retirement does.
I agree the government running up debt isn’t in the best interest of the country, I disagree if you think that as an individual, having the ability to borrow money is bad.
I also don’t think a fiat currency is bad…its the excessive expansion of it that’s bad. I’m not denying that. If we steadily had 2% inflation a year there wouldn’t be any problems with it. The only reason I take this stance is because if we had a stable supply of currency, like as a nation we circulated 1 billion pounds of gold as currency, how would that work with an expanding population? We have gone from 100 million people in 1915 to 322 million today, just basic math here, if our currency pool stayed the same but our population more than tripled, do you think the rampant deflation that would have caused would be any better for society?
Do you not realize that the internet has become an absolute necessity now? Firstly, electronic banking is almost the only type of banking left. Secondly, if you are to apply to a job it MUST be done online. If you canât afford a computer, your alternative is to buy a smart phone, which costs *considerably* less than a computer, and now days has similar processing power. A smart phone is no longer a luxury item. Furthermore, how is an employer to reach you without a phone?
See…you are the exact type of person I am talking about. No clue what is a need, and what is a want, but you certainly love complaining about being broke. No way in hell is a smart phone a necessity. A 10 dollar land line works if you need a phone for an employer to reach you, you don’t need a 100+ dollar a month cell phone package with a data plan. Or you could just get an old school cell phone that still works just fine…its what I use, my employer can reach me on it no problem, and I’m paying a lot less per month than a smart phone. If you need internet access its free at the local library, or for online banking most banks have a couple kiosks set up in the lobby for people to use.
Beer, this is simply not true. These discussions have been an echo chamber as to why you should invest, rather than save due to the loss of value over time because of inflation.
The original reply was to people not even having 1000 dollars in savings. If you are making 40k+, which if you look at income percentiles some of the 62% with no savings are making 40-60k+ a year(yeah I get it, not everyone makes this much, but my point is a good chunk of the 62% with no savings has no excuse as they make plenty of money to set a little aside), as its not automatically the bottom 62% with no savings…I know people making more than that who are living pay check to pay check, and I know people making under 60k who have a six figure net worth. If your excuse for not even setting aside a small emergency fund is because of inflation, you are a f~~~ing idiot, plain and simple. What happens when your car breaks down and you have 0 dollars to fix it, are you going to be inconvenienced by having to wait 3 weeks to fix it so you can save money to pay the mechanic because you were worried about inflation? You’d end up spending more on alternate transportation during that time. What if your hot water heater breaks? Are you going to take ice cold showers for a few weeks while you save to have it replaced?
Bottom line is, when you talk to people making 40k+ a year who are living pay check to pay check, they don’t say “I refuse to save anything because of inflation,” its more along the lines of I NEED a smart phone, I NEED a new car, I NEED at least one tropical trip a year, I NEED designer clothes, etc…some people just can’t differentiate wants and needs, which you just proved previously trying to act like a smart phone is a need.
their survival has been tethered to the acquisition of currency
*Yawn* back to this stupidity again. Go sneak off and live in the mountains somewhere and your survival is going to be tethered to acquiring food and shelter rather than currency, is your life going to be any better? What do you expect, we can all just do nothing all the time and food, shelter, clothing, and entertainment will just magically appear in infinite supply for us all?
BEER: “If you actually had a job and ever did your own taxes, you would know that.”
ME: Don’t throw this bulls~~~ at me. No one has ever supported me, except for me because I’m all I’ve got. The only reason I can be unemployed right now and study code is because I saved up the money to do it by WORKING, and because I actually have worked overtime many many times (have you?), I know that the majority of extra wealth I create gets sopped up by taxes. I did the math, you’re not going to tell me that it was incorrect because I actually had the numbers, and yes I did my own taxes.
BEER: “SeeâŚyou are the exact type of person I am talking about. No clue what is a need, and what is a want
ME: I suppose you got your job without applying online? What did you use to fill out the application? Again, a person must have access to the internet to apply for a job, and you didn’t dispute that because you CAN’T, it’s an irrefutable fact. You probably used your home computer, which is an item that is exceptionally more expensive than a smart phone.
BEER: “I view you as a broke putz who watched one too many youtube conspiracy videos”
ME: You obviously have me mistaken for someone who cares what your opinion of me is. I don’t need validation from you. Again, you are trying to make this personal with Ad Hominem attacks due to your lack of information. This is because you are responding emotionally, instead of rationally, which is why you bailed on the original post for this subject.. that, and you were “losing”. LOL.
BEER: “Go sneak off and live in the mountains somewhere and your survival is going to be tethered to acquiring food and shelter rather than currency, is your life going to be any better?”
ME: I’ve already stated that I will not do this because it is against the law. I do not wish to be in conflict with law enforcement.
I do not “despise” people who have passive income, I simply pointed out the hypocrisy of people who claim that “no one should earn your living for you”, while someone else earns their living for them.
I’m not just moping around feeling sorry for myself hoping someone will f~~~ing give me something, Beer. Please lay that bulls~~~ to rest permanently. I paid my way, and now I’m educating myself to qualify for a higher income. All of the points I made are true. I am not “wrong”. IT is true. That’s why the majority of the people here have arrived at that consensus, except for you of course. You’re special. I love you, man. haha
Hurl your derogatory insults all you like, to no effect. I am impervious.
P.S. Smart phones are cheap now.
Hurl your derogatory insults all you like, to no effect. I am impervious.
Impervious and a master of endurance. I’m impressed you’ve been able to last 13 pages without saying “the hell with this!” I swear at least half of the replies have contained personal attacks toward you.
Yes, mature people of intellect do not need to use insults and personal criticisms as crutches.
“The beginning of reform is not so much to equalize property as to train the nobler sort of natures not to desire more, and to prevent the lower from getting more; that is to say, they must be kept down, but not ill-treated. ” – Aristotle, “Politics”
Beer: YES, I agree, the greatest problem with fiat currency is it is too easily expanded. There is a huge temptation for politicians to expand it. I’m gonna have to disagree with you on deflation, though — population of US increased over 16-fold from 1800 to 1910 but inflation was under 2%. We had the gold standard then, of course. If you examine the inflation plot from the other thread that I posted, you’ll see inflation skyrocketed with Fed establishment and even more with closing the gold window. So whilst inflation DID exist under the gold standard, it was much lower. Just like Milton Friedman predicted, inflation shot through the roof when Nixon closed the window.
Yes, the population grows, but more gold is also produced AND it is self-regulating; if it’s worth more, mining increases. Gold doesn’t fix every economic woe, I’m not arguing that. It does discourage deficits and trade imbalances.
Veniversum/Beer: I’d argue you’re rewarded ‘less’ PER HOUR by working more IF you go into a higher tax bracket, but your TOTAL earnings are still higher. I guess I’m not ‘working class’ in that I’m paid a salary, but the last job switch I made, 2 years ago, my pay increased $20K. But, as you’d expect, my HOURS also increased. This increase didn’t change my tax bracket. Most people I know that earn even 6 figures, work a lot of hours. And with higher pay, you can often afford to put more away into tax-deferred savings, balancing it out somewhat… especially if 401K’s are matched… But it’s still bulls~~~ I’ve got to carry half the population that doesn’t want to work AND get caught in a f’ing traffic jam on the way TO and FROM work because so little of my tax money is spent on proper infrastructure.
Veniversum: I don’t know what you mean by ‘they don’t fund anything through taxes, they fund it through printed money’. The Federal budget deficit was $484 billion in 2014 (last year for full data); tax receipts (what I like to call my ‘protection money’) comprised 86% of spending outlays. So the vast majority of Big Government (86%) IS funded through tax rape as opposed to printing fiat currency or other criminal activity by our gangland overlords. Most State and local governments are prohibited from running deficits, and thus, unable to play this shell game. So, who is ‘they’ in your post? The Federal Government? Believe me, you’ll know if/when our Masters start generating a lot of money, this causes hyperinflation, and has occurred in many countries.
‘Need’ a smartphone? I got by without until 2 years ago when my employer paid for one. Somehow I got along without it. Somehow I get along with no ‘personal’ cell phone, I just use my work one. There’s nothing wrong with poor people buying whatever they want, but calling anything outside food, shelter, clothing, and medical care ‘needs’ is a bit of a stretch to me…
I do agree with Veniversum on one point: If everyone were skinflints like me & Beer, and saved/invested most of our incomes, there would be inadequate consumption and the whole consumer & service based economy would collapse. So we shouldn’t complain so loudly about everyone’s ‘needs’, haha. Actually, we’d all invest in foreign countries and run a huge trade surplus I suppose…
Also, it’s somewhat unfair to compare income in Mexico vs US, because purchasing power is much higher in Mexico.
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