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IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) 2 years ago.
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I got a gun baby, lets go put it down.
: DTaxation and interest isn’t a problem.
Somewhere up near the beginning of the thread it was stated that fiat currency allows the government to falsely collect taxes and banks and the wealthy to unfairly collect interest. I’ve argued repeatedly that these points are red herrings.
I want to add that… yeah… there is a bit of truth to this. Again the income tax was actually passed as an excise tax on federal reserve notes which was how it got through congress. The federal reserve claims interest on the debt accrued which is frankly hilarious but hey it is a not a federal institution. The member banks are a direct benefactor of that interest. It’s quite a damn fine scam to be frank. I’d love to have been able to pull such a ridiculous feat of cronyism.
For example, even though the Constitution expressly states that only gold and silver are legal money, if you had a business. you would find it VERY ILLEGAL to pay your employees in gold and silver coins even if they wanted to be paid that way. You won’t get a light sentence either. You will be f~~~ed harder than if you killed someone. Am I joking? I’m not sure. Heh.
That isn’t the fault of the currency and its effectiveness, that is the fault of the people who are working to bring ruin to their own functioning society.
This is EXACTLY my point. It’s not about the currency at all and that renders 90% of what’s been said on this thread totally moot. “Fiat Currency – How Humanity Has Been Enslaved With Debt” maybe should have read “The Internatinal Banking Conspiracy has you, Neo!”
Sorry Doc, but this is still false. The SCAM is that the people who print Fiat currency, will always abuse that power.. because even if they have good intentions, someone that doesn’t will take that power from them by force, Printing press = free lunch. That’s why they don’t allow anyone in the public to counterfeit or print money. No one wants to admit that money, it’s self, is the problem, because they all want to confiscate the labor and servitude of others by being rich. If humans cannot conquer their own greed, it *will* be the end of us. We may not last through the next world war. Meanwhile, planet killers, and resources loom in space. At least gold coin would be difficult these days to debase, because we could have very simple technology that could test and weigh it before we trade. That’s something that previous generations didn’t have access to. Even then, someone could counterfeit the notes, if we were to use those. The real solution is to abolish currency, but of course it isn’t going to happen because like I said, psychopaths will always control it by force so that they can acquire whatever they want, whenever they want it, from almost anyone. It’s a treasure machine.. greater than any King previously in history ever obtained. Endless confiscation of production and services..
I think the degree of convenience your looking for demands illusion.
Actually it demands we look at how it was handled historically before the recent decades.
Yes. I explained to him that the failures of most currencies come as a result of mismanaged fiscal policy on the nation that results in leaving or in failure of currencies. Convenience has not been issue since money/currency has replaced bartering.
You explained to me that it was not the fault of the currency itself but the money authority? I beg to differ. I told YOU. Check the thread history, I have argued from the start that blaming “fiat currency” in and of itself is BS and that the form of the currency a market chooses to embrace is irrelevant.
Price stability depends less on whether money is “created out of thin air” and more on the credibility of the monetary authority to manage the economy’s money supply in a responsible manner.
That isn’t the fault of the currency and its effectiveness, that is the fault of the people who are working to bring ruin to their own functioning society
I’m sure many MGTOW have already looked into the financial system and know it’s a giant ponzi scheme.
But for the younger MGTOW out there, it’s imperative you understand how our “money” is created.
The sad fact is that since 1971, the US dollar and all other currencies are purely FIAT, which means backed up by DEBT.
Fiat currency, or paper money is the biggest scam on Earth. There is a difference between money and currency.
The money we have today is actually just currency and “legal tender”. It’s backed up by absolutely nothing.
If you do not understand something as simple as money, your’e in for a rude awaking at some point in the future.
I’m not a doomster or a hardcore prepper or anything. I’m just aware that the world keeps changing, and certain long-term cycles just keep repeating over and over again throughout history.
I found a great series of videos that really break it down into very simple terms for the average man to understand. It’s called the Hidden Secrets Of Money, by Mike Maloney.
Here is a link to the 1st of 6 chapters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU
It explains how the US dollar and other paper currencies are mathematically doomed to fail. This is a long term trend, and it’s not necessarily imminent, just inevitable. I want to make sure everyone is aware.
The bigger the crisis, the bigger the opportunity.
I’m sure many MGTOW have already looked into the financial system and know it’s a giant ponzi scheme.
But for the younger MGTOW out there, it’s imperative you understand how our “money” is created.
The sad fact is that since 1971, the US dollar and all other currencies are purely FIAT, which means backed up by DEBT.
Fiat currency, or paper money is the biggest scam on Earth. There is a difference between money and currency.
The money we have today is actually just currency and “legal tender”. It’s backed up by absolutely nothing.
If you do not understand something as simple as money, your’e in for a rude awaking at some point in the future.
I’m not a doomster or a hardcore prepper or anything. I’m just aware that the world keeps changing, and certain long-term cycles just keep repeating over and over again throughout history.
I found a great series of videos that really break it down into very simple terms for the average man to understand. It’s called the Hidden Secrets Of Money, by Mike Maloney.
Here is a link to the 1st of 6 chapters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU
It explains how the US dollar and other paper currencies are mathematically doomed to fail. This is a long term trend, and it’s not necessarily imminent, just inevitable. I want to make sure everyone is aware.
The bigger the crisis, the bigger the opportunity.
This is the first post in this thread. Would you not agree that it is talking about the problems of fiat currency itself, not about irresponsible or “evil” monetary policy? My post was the very next one. I respond by agreeing that the ability to inflate the money supply is a problem and then asking what form of currency could possibly prevent this from happening.
What followed was a lot of obvious bulls~~~ about the “real economy” and commodity basket currencies which I ultimately forced everyone to agree would do NOTHING to resolve the problem And now I’m the one being schooled about monetary policy? It is to laugh.
Thanks for the fun time, guys, but I’m going to go talk to some adults.
I think the degree of convenience your looking for demands illusion.
Although it’s clear we’re having two entirely different conversations here, I would like to speak to the purely mechanical aspect of this. Say what you want about the evil money printers, I won’t argue that, but I will talk about the degree of convenience I expect a currency must offer in order to be useful.
1) It must be widely accepted – this is purely a measure of faith in the authority that mints and backs it as well as in the system of storage and exchange that supports it. Currency is worthless if people don’t believe it has any worth.
2) it must be portable, durable and easy to handle – money you can’t carry with you in varying denominations that are readily identifiable and which take up similar physical space without being damaged by handling, is money you can’t use,
3) It must be fungible – if larger denominations can not be broken down into smaller ones without the parts being less valuable than the whole, then you can’t “make change” and the purchasing power of the currency is extremely limited.
4) It must be able to hold value – arbitrary and extreme fluctuations in the value of the currency relative to the goods and services that can be purchased with it makes faith in that currency difficult to maintain.
I’m pulling all this off the top of my head so I may have left out something important, but these, I believe, are the key properties a currency must have in order to be “convenient”. The degree to which a particular form of value storage and exchange possesses these properties determines its usefulness as currency.
Metal coins are exceptionally convenient which is why we’ve been using them for, what, thousands of years? Chickens, pigs, beans, rice, bullets and clay tablets with marks on them are not, which is why bartering economies started making coins to begin with and then paper money when coins became impractical.
Some things currencies do NOT need to be in order to be convenient:
1) Intrinsically useful or valuable – the value of gold bullion to the average person is just as much based on faith as is the trade value of a deposit receipt for gold bullion. While it is is useful in manufacturing, medical applications and as jewelry because of its ohysical properties including that it’s inert, shiny and easy to form, in a “real economy”, people have nearly zero practical use for gold.
2) Absolutely value stable – the value of everything is relative to the value of everything else and it all depends on the situation on the ground. Right now you would be happy to be holding, say, 30 ounces of gold and if you were to sell it in order to buy a vehicle you’d be happy to get, say, a $30,000 diesel truck or something else in that price range for it. But if you were bleeding out and near death in a post collapse environment, you’d probably be willing to trade that 30 oz of gold for a few pints of blood and the services of someone who can extract a bullet and clean and stitch a wound. Ironically, they probably wouldn’t take it in such an extreme circumstance… they’d probably prefer a pig and a couple of chickens.
3) Incorruptible – there is no perfect currency, just as there is no perfect economy, society, government or individual. We do the best we can with what we’ve got, we trust our system to be as good as is reasonably possible and we get on with the business of our lives without worrying too much about things we can’t change.
Regarding the value of illusion… I once asked a friend who believes in the Lizard People “If you knew for a fact that there were extraterrestrial aliens living among us, controlling our society through the strategic release of technologies, ideas, genetic modifications, whatever… how would that materially effect your daily life as it is right now? What changes would you make or actions would you take on the basis of that information?” And it came out that his two options were “Get on with my life as though it weren’t true because there’s nothing I can do to fix it.” and “Act like a f~~~ing idiot and maybe get myself and anyone who listened to me killed.”
I think you can guess which choice he made… and he knows not to talk to me about that kind of bulls~~~ any more.
So what’s the solution… back to the gold standard? Crypto-currency? Barter economy? Bottle caps?
I’m not disagreeing that expanding the supply of a currency devalues the existing currency… but assuming that we need some method of easily and securely accounting for, transmitting and storing value, I wonder how one avoids erosion of value in any form of standardized expandable storage.
Anyone?
All banks should be state-owned, non-profit entities. The constitution states clearly that congress alone has the power to issue currency. That the federal reserve bank (which is a private, for-profit corporation, just like Federal Express) is allowed to loan into existence each dollar in circulation with interest at its inception is proof of a crime. Where will the money come from to pay the interest? Oh, it will have to be borrowed! At interest! Surely you can all see the positive feedback loop that is. You only have to look at the curve of the federal debt over the last 20 years to see its intended effect.
"All your children are poor, unfortunate victims of systems beyond their control... A plague upon your ignorance to the great despair of your ugly life!" -Frank Zappa
Just a reminder while I agree with your original post completely, I was simply responding to your question of what was the best currency. It is still basket commodity currency. Even gold is far superior. The problem with fiat is it ALWAYS fails because it isn’t tied to any measure. Our current system had a bit of backing with oil and stability because EVERYONE was pretty much forced to buy oil with FRN. Unlike gold or other commodity standards, fiat consistently fails even when governments don’t leave the fiat system. Look at Mexico 20-30 years ago. The peso failed and was devalued and people were BTFO in their savings account. I knew someone a few years back that told me they went from having somewhere around 5,000 pesos to 500 pesos overnight. (FYI I live in deep south Texas) This was even before Mexico entered its current quasi-failed state status. Fiat currency is matched with communism in failure rate. It’s atrocious and pretty much a given that it will fail within decades.
I made some concessions with the FRN because it had some monopolized oil trade backing and US superpower backing in the late 80’s. That was what kept it together, not because fiat currency is better. If it wasn’t for those two aspects, it would have failed a long time ago just being a FRN.
Not trying to get into “I told you so” just wanted to clarify the monetary system we have, has serious problems.
You explained to me that it was not the fault of the currency itself but the money authority? I beg to differ. I told YOU. Check the thread history, I have argued from the start that blaming “fiat currency” in and of itself is BS and that the form of the currency a market chooses to embrace is irrelevant.
Price stability depends less on whether money is “created out of thin air” and more on the credibility of the monetary authority to manage the economy’s money supply in a responsible manner.
That isn’t the fault of the currency and its effectiveness, that is the fault of the people who are working to bring ruin to their own functioning society
A reminder, I responded to you question of what was the best currency. It is still basket commodity currency. Even gold is far superior. The problem with fiat is it ALWAYS fails because it isn’t tied to any measure. Our current system had a bit of backing with oil and stability because EVERYONE was pretty much forced to buy oil with FRN. Unlike gold or other commodity standards, fiat consistently fails even when governments don’t leave the fiat system. Look at Mexico 20-30 years ago. The peso failed and was devalued and people were BTFO in savings. This was even before Mexico entered its current quasi-failed state status. Fiat currency is matched with communism in failure rate.
I made some concessions with the FRN because it had some monopolized oil trade backing and US superpower backing in the late 80’s. That was what kept it together, not because fiat currency is better. If it wasn’t for those two aspects, it would have failed a long time ago just being a FRN.
Barter is best,,,,(for people who work for a living)
Barter s best… maybe for people who live in agrarian societies… and even they used money because it was better.
Your childish fantasies… I’d like to hear you describe, at length, how a barter economy would work. Starting tomorrow morning, fiat currency is gone or you can phase it out over time if you like, doesn’t matter. You go to work doing what and you get paid in what by whom and then you take it where and barter it for what with whom and then what…
Going back to a barter economy would result in radical and sudden unemployment, the collapse of modern industrial society and the starvation death of a significant percentage of humanity within five years… unless you intend to abandon the modern world entirely and consign all of humanity to subsistence farming for the remainder of our existence.
How are either of those scenarios more real, fair or ethical than the paper and coin we use today? Convince me. Oh man, this ought to be good.
The problem with fiat is it ALWAYS fails
It’s not about the currency, it’s about the money authority,,, except when it’s about the currency, which it’s not about. Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
So what’s the solution… back to the gold standard? Crypto-currency? Barter economy? Bottle caps?
I’m not disagreeing that expanding the supply of a currency devalues the existing currency… but assuming that we need some method of easily and securely accounting for, transmitting and storing value, I wonder how one avoids erosion of value in any form of standardized expandable storage.
Anyone?
That the federal reserve bank (which is a private, for-profit corporation, just like Federal Express) is allowed to loan into existence each dollar in circulation with interest at its inception is proof of a crime. Where will the money come from to pay the interest? Oh, it will have to be borrowed! At interest!
Precisely. Printing money is *not* a loan. That’s fraud. They should call it something else. The debt is fiction.. and they are going to make us fight wars over it. The rulers will use it as an excuse to depopulate their own subjects; those being US. Loaning people money that is created out of thin air, is the equivalent of simply assigning debt to people. “I’m going to pay someone to use violence to force someone else to serve you now, using money that I created from nothing. You owe me.” It’s pure insanity that we could be on the brink of WWIII over something completely imaginary, and generally misunderstood or completely unknown by a nescient population. All of the suffering that happens out of economic collapse is a result of the greed and irresponsibility of the fiat printers, as well as the ignorance or nescience of the populous. The internet is about to end the nescience though. What will, people who rely on manipulation to survive, *do* when the people can no longer be manipulated? P.T. Barnum used to say there is a sucker born every minute. Well, I don’t think that will be the case in the future, where even kids will grow up understanding what is going on. Printing money is not a loan, and no person or institution should have the power to assign debt to people at no expense to themselves.
Technically the USA isn’t in debt. We owe 18 trillion and Americans have about 20 trillion in savings (ira, roth, etc). Problem solved. Think I’m kidding. It will happen because there is no other choice.
Mark my words.
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So what’s the solution… back to the gold standard? Crypto-currency? Barter economy? Bottle caps?
This is dangerous. any currency backed by a tangible item is doomed to meet adversity by world powers. It is the same reason they killed Gadhafi. In short..
He had a plan to stop selling Libyan oil for U.S dollars and start trading it for the Dinar currency (which is backed by about 150 tons of gold). What more is that in this plan he also was backed by the areas wealth of diamonds. To give you an example.. I’m actually in Bahrain now.. and the it the exchange rate is about $2.65 to 1 Bahrain Dinar. Ask yourself why this is possible in a place that is generally a spec on the map compared to other nations.
Anyhow..
Ironically, somehow, Nato got involved with the whole Gadhafi biz, most likely due to some trumped up charges… he and his sons ended up dying in the streets like dogs.The point is, when you disturb the idea of keeping people in debt, you directly threaten the world economy as a whole. And we all know the powers that be can’t have that…
Funny, isn't it? How women thrive on a mans time, attention and resources, while simultaneously telling him he isn't enough...
You guys argue like women. You are so emotionally bound up in your position that you refuse to see its impracticality and the absurdity of the consequences that the widespread adoption of your position would necessitate.
Instead of answering my simple question, which I knew you wouldn’t, you just claim to be right. That’s how I know you’ve got no leg to stand on,
Fiat currencies always fail. So what’s the alternative? Show me how it would work better. Or are we just here to whine about it?
You will win this argument, of course, because I will give up in exasperation trying to get you to actually support your position rather than just repeating it. And then you’ll take my giving up as proof that you are right… just like every argument I’ve ever had with a woman,
My wish for you, like for every woman, is that you would actually be forced to live in the world you claim to desire. Fortunately for you, you will never have to, so you can go on talking about it without reason or consequence. Have fun with that.
You guys argue like women. You are so emotionally bound up in your position that you refuse to see its impracticality and the absurdity of the consequences that the widespread adoption of your position would necessitate.
Instead of answering my simple question, which I knew you wouldn’t, you just claim to be right. That’s how I know you’ve got no leg to stand on,
Fiat currencies always fail. So what’s the alternative? Show me how it would work better. Or are we just here to whine about it?
You will win this argument, of course, because I will give up in exasperation trying to get you to actually support your position rather than just repeating it. And then you’ll take my giving up as proof that you are right… just like every argument I’ve ever had with a woman,
My wish for you, like for every woman, is that you would actually be forced to live in the world you claim to desire. Fortunately for you, you will never have to, so you can go on talking about it without reason or consequence. Have fun with that.
Yours is an emotional response of frustration, from which you resorted to more ad hominem attacks on your detractors. The fact that you used the term “win this argument”, also proves that from your perspective, this is a personal contest to find out who is superior. Such is not the case. This is not a debate, it is a discussion. It is as rational as is possible, to evaluate the history of fiat currency, why it fails, and as a result arrive at the conclusion that fiat currencies are not beneficial to the general populace. They are beneficial primarily to the ruling class, and whoever they favor for whatever reason. I’ve already pointed out to you, with absolute solemnity that it’s unreasonable for you to expect a small group of us to come up with a replacement for the current system. It still is. Nothing you have said has made that less true. The public has to understand that it has a flat tire, in order for it to be aware that it needs changing. Many of the public still think we have a lot of tread, but we are actually about to have a blow out. Crypto-currencies were one proposed solution. Just because we may not have a solution immediately, amongst the small group of us, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t attempt to discuss and brainstorm for one. The fiat is going to collapse anyway. It is best to at the very least, to attempt to discuss what should be done after such an event. The alternative is war, which seems to be the only tool the world central banking cartel knows how to use in the event of currency collapse. So, stay rational Doc.. and do not try to make this personal.. it certainly is no contest. You don’t have to compete with the rest of us, you can choose to collaborate.
The problem with fiat is it ALWAYS fails
It’s not about the currency, it’s about the money authority,,, except when it’s about the currency, which it’s not about. Truly you have a dizzying intellect.
Bro, you ok? I know you may be frustrated but I only got in on the thread on the last half. I am not part of the arguments you’ve been with. I don’t think I’ve been inconsistent with my points. Talking about best currency is one subject, the failure of our current monetary system is another.
Fiat currencies always fail. So what’s the alternative? Show me how it would work better. Or are we just here to whine about it?
My wish for you, like for every woman, is that you would actually be forced to live in the world you claim to desire. Fortunately for you, you will never have to, so you can go on talking about it without reason or consequence. Have fun with that.
1. That was why I jumped in with basket commodity currency.
2. I agree with the possible bitching going on with the thread. Some of it looks dramatic which is why I haven’t really read a lot of the posts. I live in a family farm. So I’m all for it. I’m ready if s~~~ goes to hell. I have access to food and water, guns, ammo, and etc.
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