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Anonymous 4 years, 3 months ago.
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I also find it quite ironic that virtually all of these 9/11 “truthers” and conspiracy advocates are complete and utter LIBERALS.
You must be watching too much of Turks or something. I don’t know of any liberal truthers.They’re mostly all libertarians, but far from modern liberals.
Im uncertain where you get your news, but heres a clip of liberal Hollywood pushing the agenda:
None of these people are “libertarians”, they are liberals on roids. They have their own agenda.
FWIW if your either a libertarian or liberal, thats fine with me. But put it out their and be honest about it. All of these f~~~s are liberal to the core and hold the belief that government is killing citizens, yet government should have more money and power.
You cant have it both ways.
Resident cynic.
I’m borderline anarchist, so don’t get me started with the government thing
proud carrier of the 'why?' chromosome
I’m borderline anarchist, so don’t get me started with the government thing
I could care less about you being anarchist.
Do what you please.
If you want to discuss the “liberals in America” and how most of them are “truthers”; as you did in youre previous reply, then lets have a discussion.
If not,
Then dont bother replying here.
Resident cynic.
Anonymous5Snake I was looking into the shootings you won’t find alot information on the families. Its very strange. Good post, absolutely tragic tho – both ways.
A crazy man goes on a killing spree in which he has zero motivation or personal vendetta against his victims, but with the sole purpose of killing as many innocent people as possible, and you cant find a lot of information on the families? How is this strange?
The killer had ZERO personal relationship with any of the direct victims. Why would you expect to find any stories on the victims families while they are in morning?
The killers motive was to kill random people. What kind of story do you expect to find on the victims families?
Its as though you cant comprehend that crazy and evil people exist. Ever heard of Adolf F~~~ing Hitler? Was that a conspiracy as well? Good f~~~ing god…
Again – what do you think really happened?Well frist off looking into these shootings am not distant from the fact horrific people are out there on the brink/edge of killing someone. Ancient whats with your tone, am not trying to s~~~ on you? With all things going on in this world I am alittle suspicious of our goverment(s). I believe it did happen. but if am wrong it wouldn’t surprise me. Am just throwing in my little bit if snake mite have some more to add to that- Maybe? Guess not- I just figured there mite be more information on the passed and there wasn’t ? – werid?- No – yes? F~~~ whatever.
Duke Toga,
This is one of those topics I can get passionate/ heated about. My apologies if my tone was dickish.
Resident cynic.
Anonymous5Duke Toga,
This is one of those topics I can get passionate/ heated about. My apologies if my tone was dickish.No no, getting a apology from you on this is not needed. I share alot of your views (on far more than this subject) – let me say that I find it annoying sometimes how I cannot put the “puzzle back together” with out treading into the “conspiracy world” – my comment was vague, I have met people as you must have (or have not) that go on and on and on about the same s~~~ around these issues.
“It’s hard to live in left, when you always want to go right.” Trying to find a balance is what I search for.
Ancient you are not a dick. You are a well thought person- one that I would pride my self backing you if your in office ;).
DT,
I too find some conspiracy theories intriguing; and finding that balance is hard for me as well.
Ive read much about the: MK Ultra project, the Federal Reserve, the Rothchilds, Tavistock group, 13 blood lines, Alister Crowley, etc, etc. Im conservative, not liberal. To be frank: I think the reason I get so heated about the issues is because in my personal face to face life – not here online on this forum- the very people that tell me they dont trust the government and think they are responsible for mass murder of their own citizens, are the very same people who want to give more money and power to the goverent. That to me is insane.
That wasnt directed to you or anyone else on here. Im thinking of people I know in real life, and Im honestly reflecting on why these topics get me so heated.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Politics is a loaded gun lol. Ultimately I dont trust either “party” of the establishment. I want an outsider, and I think we should have term limits for any public office. All these f~~~s are bought and paid for on both sides.
Resident cynic.
I have been living within an hour of Sandy Hook, and it sickens me that the world has come to a place where such shootings are thought of as hoaxes. It is like I have to go drive out to Sandy Hook and confirm about things were a hoax, or call the church where it was reported there was a shooting and end up trying to find out about them also. But, I guess everyone will believe what they will. I personally need to get on with my life.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
I have been living within an hour of Sandy Hook, and it sickens me that the world has come to a place where such shootings are thought of as hoaxes. It is like I have to go drive out to Sandy Hook and confirm about things were a hoax, or call the church where it was reported there was a shooting and end up trying to find out about them also. But, I guess everyone will believe what they will. I personally need to get on with my life.
Well Richard the problem is the evidence. Too many real questions, and very few viable answers.
There has still to this day been no clear explanation of the helicopter video of the THREE men running away from the school and being chased by police. The fact that two of those men were revealed to be out of town undercover/off-duty police officer does not satisfactorily answer what the hell they were doing there and running away from police in the first place. That one fact alone leaves me with a bad taste about the entire shooting and the official line about it.
The hard part of all of this is the other side of the coin, which is who would have the power and influence at such levels to so totally manipulate the truth of what happened. To me that misinformation and what it implies feeds a far deeper fear of why even bother with staging such events in the first place. What it implies is a very scary thing to anyone who believes in freedom, liberty, and justice.
The bigger problem with these events (and there seems to be too many lately) is the disinformation that comes from some very well informed sources that have nothing to do with most “Truthers” types views. These secondary conspiracy types that talk about these events and make the original questions Truthers ask make the people asking questions seem like a bunch of nuts. . For example with Sandy Hook there was the story that actors were used in front of the camera, which was not the original exposed item discussed about “fake family members” etc. It is a case of a second set of insane “facts” being used to make the original facts look like absurdity, and thus cancel all rational discussion about what the hell happened. Shutting down debate with even more absurdity seems like definite news speak to me.
Simply put, I do not trust media reports anymore. I have my own personal reasons, and have seen how things get warped to suit the media spin. It is a scary thing to witness in action. Not because it happens, but because clearly more then one person is responsible for the misinformation, and letting it get to the public so openly. What the hell happened to editorial or journalistic integrity for investigative reporting these days? Are all media reporters just yellow journalists now? I find that difficult to swallow.
We should as society stop attacking people that show evidence and present questions. The act of asking questions is now seen automatically as from conspiracy seekers, and thus disavowed as real. That such a open knee-jerk reaction is what result when genuine people bring these points forward is a pathetic comment on the society we currently live in.
"Women have become so full of hatred that they are blind to reason and humanity. That which they practice will be the end of humanity, long before any war that men may fight.." "Women are predators by nature. Why else do you think they are so quick to gang up and go after a man they hate for showing any sign of weakness?"
Anonymous18Lets do it my man.
Your methodology is to ask questions, then tell people to disprove your questions. A scientific method is to form a hypothesis, then VERIFY/PROVE it. Your approach is the antithesis method of all formal logic and reasoning. This is why its lumped in the class of the conspiracy dumpster.
Have you published research? You seem hell bent on science. Luckily I have few papers published. So I think I can tackle this.
The hypothesis is twin towers, airliners, terrorists, hijacking. That is not my hypothesis, that is what the government proposed. And they went ahead an verified or proved it via the 9/11 commission report. The report is not scientific research because it is based on incidents and data that is non-reproducible. So the best venue (still keeping with the entire science model you like) is to look at the evidence that was used to come up with the conclusion. Now questions arise and you can hopefully overlook your disdain for conspiracy theorists and venture out and see those questions for yourself. I will give you one such example – WTC 7 and its free fall. Having no airlines crash in to it.
Now comes the human element of the truth (as I disagree with your proposition of 9/11 and science altogether) and how it ties in to the investigative aspect of 9/11. Before I go any further if all crime was to be solved using science alone then we would not need the detectives. Scientists in lab coats running Western blots on gel electrophoresis mapping DNA would suffice.
So on to the human element- which raise doubts- at the very least. Something the legal system prides in itself – that is evidence to prove crime beyond a reasonable doubt. And as a reminder, I am proving no hypothesis of my own. I am working with the given hypothesis above.
Exhibit 1 is Larry Silverstein. A man who made 4+ billion dollars in profit. A man who had breakfast at 107th floor of one of the WTC towers for many years but conveniently did not show up on 9/11. Both of his children that also worked there took the day off.
Exhibit 2 is the steel – it was quickly shipped out to China without the investigative team having any access to it. Would be pretty convenient to test for the cause – nanothermite vs jet fuel vs alien poop or what have you.
Exhibit 3 is no fighter jets being made available to intercept the airlines because there was military drill going on and the FAA chief happened to be brand spanking new at his job.
Exhibit 4 is 5 Israelis caught dancing near the WTC with camera equipment following the incident. Coincidentally a white van with a mural of twin towers with a plane crashing on it found in a nearby parking garage.
Exhibit 5 is former airline pilots for the plane model that crashed stated the airplane model did not use the engine make or model found at ground zero.
Again as a reminder this is a criminal investigation. Not a scientific study. Even if it were so I am not proposing any hypothesis of my own. I am raising doubt to how the authors of the investigation of the report came to the conclusion they did.
How choice. This statement is oozing with irony. “No room for science” – a conspiracy theorist in his own words.
Do you have a scientific method to prove absolute truth? Again there is no room for science when you are accounting for a version of what actually happened without accounting under the circumstances/context it happened. Perhaps the irony is not lost on you that it is scientifically impossible for a building to fall on its own? Or most things science just make it that more unlikely to happen. But I am making it easy by leaving science aside. Do not conveniently ignore that if it does not fit your *my government can not do this to me* fantasy. And especially if you are false claiming that my reasoning and questioning method is failing some definition of science. Law and Science brother. Apple and Oranges. Can not explain it all using science. We have no room for science in totality of any criminal investigation that is concerned with a concept called truth. Science goes as far as any premise we set would lead us. Since the entire premise is corrupt we have no science to investigate the pulverized clumps of steel. I am sure you are aware of non-scientist witnesses being called to stand.
You might want to take note to the previous poster who demonstrably showed each of your points/questions as fallacious.
Hardly proved anything beyond a reasonable doubt. He argued for things the way I did. You like his version because it is in agreement with you belief. Again convenient for you to just say he proved you wrong. Unfortunately, he did not. He raised questions against my questions like the way I raised questions against the official narrative. But it is inconvenient for you to look at things from a different perspective.
The idea that you could harbor the thought that wings on a plane are so fragile that they cant withstand a humans weight, yet are capable of flying at hundreds of miles an hour is quite telling. That is beyond me. Im not quick to make assumptions about ones intelligence, but your a rare case study, and demonstrable into the mind of a conspiracy theorist.
I already pointed out earlier it was an error on my part to imply the wings are that fragile. But I also posted a youtube clip showing a fighter jet weighing 15+ tons pulverized at 500mph hitting a concrete wall. If the wings are that strong as to cut through thick, megaton steel beams then there is no need for a *Do not step* sign on them. No? What explanation do you have for the warning otherwise?
And the way you state my intelligence is a rare case study, I find it equally less intelligent that you have learned to google definitions but miss the entire context that asking questions is not science. Science asks questions. There is a difference. And it is not a subtle one.
In line with your illogical reasoning, you cant even fathom propping up a plausible argument as to what you believe truly happened. Because there is no other plausible explanation.
Plausible argument- WTC 7 fell in free fall. I already made that point in my earlier post.
No other explanation? Pretty narrow minded. No? You believed there were WMD in Iraq? Or Assad was gassing his own people? Or generally terrorists?
Your argument lies entirely in having a narrative to believe in. You have one officially given to you. And those asking questions must thereby have their own narrative in what truly happened. Not that different from hardcore theists believing if you do not believe in Bible there is Satan to catch you. It is not an either this or that proposition. I am proposing nothing beyond doubts.
A complete disanalogy; and the fact you cant comprehend it is even more telling. 9/11 occurred in broad day light, in one of the most highly and densly populated cities on the entire planet. New York F~~~ing City, the World F~~~ing Trade Center, involving thousands of eye witnesses, victims, and families of victims.
This point you are making is regarding to what I said about secrecy of military aircrafts. Originally you had implied that 1000s of people need to be involved in carrying out 9/11 if it was more than just the terrorists and the government was hiding the truth. The secrecy was precisely in the planning phase and not in executing phase. Since you have to have something rational for the buildings to collapse, can not simply make them disappear in secrecy.
I proved you wrong by pointing out that 1000s of people CAN be involved in a secret project without it being known until it is the right time. 9/11 occurred in day light and in NYC and WTC came down including all the victims. How is WHAT happened ever an indication of whether the planning was done in secrecy or in open? Anything that happens in day light in a big city involving major structures must therefore be such that it is impossible to plan in secrecy?
Youre going to compare THAT with developing a classified plane (stealth bomber) in a classified bunker on a military owned property which involves a fraction of the people, all of whom have security clearances?
I cant debate delusional.
As you see delusion on my part, I see inability to accept an alternate opinion. Again I am not trying to prove anything. It is not my job. But if you are going to lengths at how something happened and not all facts are verifiable (think WTC 7) using SCIENCE then there is reasonable doubt. And no I do not need scientifically verifiable questions to ask questions of the official narrative.
Again there is no hard science in truth. I stand by original claim that there is no room for science in finding truth in its entirely. I mentioned it earlier that certain parameters of what the truth is can be tested using science (which you opted out because it does not make me quite as delusional as you would like to pretend)
ILearn,
Its obvious youve made up your mind and NOTHING I or anyone else says will sway you. This is growing tiresome.
Even the basic distinction I drew between science and conspiracy theory is falling on deaf ears with you. I dont know how to say it any simpler:
Science, the empirical (that which is observable) study is based on VERIFIABLE hypotheses.
Conspiracy is based on precisely the opposite: the inability to prove a POSSIBILITY WRONG.
Im not sure what about this is confusing. I could tell you its possible a flying spaghetti monster exists in space and since you cant disprove that claim then I should be entitled to ask questions; but its a highly implausible position.
Ill adress some of your wacky views, but like I said its clear youre married to your views and this is going nowhere fast.
WT7
This comes primarily from two miscommunications. The first was by BBC News, which broadcast an erroneous report that WTC 7 had collapsed while the building could still be seen standing through the window of their New York studio.[8] The second was an evacuation order (“pull it”) that went out shortly before the building, badly damaged in the collapse of the main towers and on fire, collapsed of its own accord. According to the National Institute of Standards and Technology’s (NIST) 2006 Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster report, the reasons for the WTC 7 collapse include:
“”Debris from the collapse of WTC 1, which was 370 feet to the south, ignited fires on at least 10 floors in the building at its south and west faces. However, only the fires on some of the lower floors — 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 — burned out of control. These lower-floor fires — which spread and grew because the water supply to the automatic sprinkler system for these floors had failed — were similar to building fires experienced in other tall buildings. The primary and backup water supply to the sprinkler systems for the lower floors relied on the city’s water supply, whose lines were damaged by the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2. These uncontrolled lower-floor fires eventually spread to the northeast part of WTC 7, where the building’s collapse began.… [T]he thermal expansion of building elements such as floor beams and girders, which occurred at temperatures hundreds of degrees below those typically considered in current practice for fire-resistance ratings; significant magnification of thermal expansion effects due to the long-span floors in the building; connections between structural elements that were designed to resist the vertical forces of gravity, not the thermally induced horizontal or lateral loads; and an overall structural system not designed to prevent fire-induced progressive collapse.[9]
Although it wasn’t completely obvious to the untrained eye at the time, WTC 7 had been seriously compromised by a 20-story gash in one corner facing Ground Zero, and by the time the evacuation order was given was visibly sagging. Conspiracy theorists have also tried to claim that “pull” is standard jargon within the demolition industry to fire off demolition charges within the building; demolition experts have denied this; the usual term would be “shoot it” or “blow it.” “Pulling” refers to a procedure of attaching hauser cables to a building and using heavy vehicles to pull it over, something that would have been fairly easy for observers to detect.[10]while building 7 wasn’t hit by an airliner, it was hit by the large perimeter columns of the Tower collapse. It was 370 ft away but the towers were more than 1300 ft tall. As the tower peeled open, it easily tilted over to reach building 7. Below is evidence showing that conspiracy theorists are wrong.
…The falling debris from the twin towers, combined with fires that the debris initiated in several surrounding buildings(Not just the buildings Larry Silverstein owns and has on lease), led to the partial or complete collapse of all the other buildings in the complex and caused catastrophic damage to ten other large structures in the surrounding area.
CONSPIRACY THEORY: Steel Shipped to China to Get Rid of Evidence
more than 350,000 tons of steel were extracted from Ground Zero, taken from all seven of the buildings in the WTC complex that were destroyed and likely from St Nicholas Church and part of Fiterman Hall as well, then shipped to Fresh Kills. Once released the steel was barged or trucked to salvage yards in New Jersey where it was cut up for recycling. Four salvage yards were contracted to process the steel, then sell it. At the time there were a lot of sources critical of the movement overseas of the steel. As was explained the local steel merchants wanted no part of the material, even though it was vitually being given away. They were concerned of the emotional impact of working with the material and the consequences of claims they might make profit from such a calamity. Not to mention the steel was possibly contaminated with asbestos, PCBs, cadmium, mercury and dioxins.
The Chinese firm Baosteel purchased 50,000 tons of this recycled steel. A firm in India purchased 30,000 tons of this potentially contaminated product.
Many of the most important pieces of steel to investigators are stored in a 80,000 sq. ft. hangar at JFK airport, as referenced above.
Some of it ended up in a lot of 9/11 Memorials across the country, including one at the California State Fairgrounds in Sacramento and some at the Staten Island Botanical Garden. You can touch it and even scrape it if you like. 24 tons of it ended up in the bow of the USS New York. If they were trying to keep anybody from examining samples of it by shipping it overseas, they had a epic fail.
To non-Truthers, people who rightly saw nothing unusual in the way the buildings collapsed, the steel was just something in the way of the more important task of body recovery. To those who were storing the steel it was a nuisance that, if quickly sold, might help them offset the enormous cost of WTC site cleanup. China had thousands of construction sites desperate for steel around that time so it just made sense that a lot of it ended up there.
Only later, when delusional paranoids started saying the buildings were brought down by explosives/nukes/laser beams/fairy dust, did this removal of steel become an issue.
But since nobody back in September/October 2001 had any idea that delusional idiots in the future would come wanting to test the steel for explosives/nukes/laser beams/fairy dust it
Resident cynic.
Evil Jew Conspiracy: Larry Silverstein
There was no specific “terrorist clause” in the insurance policies( which “FORTUITOUSLY covered the attack” and GAVE HIM BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM INSURANCE COMPANIES), BUT the terms include that the damages are COVERED IN CASE OF THE DESTRUCTION OF THE PROPERTY!! HOWEVER ACCORDING TO THE commercial building insurance, the terms of the policy requires that he use the money for the REBUILDING PURPOSES. MOVER OVER, he has to PAY RENT on buildings that no longer exist in order to retain his building rights.(WHICH, BY THE WAY, is 2 MILLION ANNUALLY in BASE RENT!!)
***SO CAN YOU HELP ME CALCULATE THE RENT HE PAYS FOR THE TIME HE SPENDS BUILDING THEM BACK?!! WHILE HE DOESN’T GET ANY DIRECT INCOME FROM THE BUILDINGS THAT NO LONGER EXIST!!!(it has been more than a decade and only construction of 1 building is complete so far!! DO THE MATH)
Im not going to post anymore debunking your theories because this is going nowhere. Youve made up your mind, and will have a “theory” no matter what.
If fighter jets DID shoot down the planes than that would be evidence to you of an inside job.
This is going nowhere. Believe what you wish. The fact that you cant understand the distinction between what is more plausible vs “proving universal truths” <– your words, and they are enlightening.
Epystemology in the empirical world is based on inductive reasoning; not proving universal truths because that is an impossibility due to our finite nature.
Im done with this because you wont change my perspective and I wont change yours, irrespective of what we post.
Resident cynic.
Cant bite my tongue and address this
Anything that happens in day light in a big city involving major structures must therefore be such that it is impossible to plan in secrecy?
Planning and execution are two entirely different activities. I can “plan” the execution of every man on the planet in my studio apartment with noone finding out. The execution of the plan is an entirely different matter.
Your comparing SECRET airplane developments within SECRET bases by CLASSIFIED individuals, to the
execution of the
single largest terrorist attack in US history
, in broad day light
, in the most densly populated city in America.
You dont see the difference?
Yet another reason why I cant debate delusional. Your thought process is insane.
You Argue Like A Woman: Questions but Zero Argument of Your Own
You keep putting non-conspiracy theorist on the defence. What is your more plausible argument as to what happened?
Let me guess: you dont have one.
waiting…
Resident cynic.
I cant wait for you to tell me you CANT give an argument.
Afterall, your “just asking questions”. But cant provide a more plausible argument than whats been given.
Its going to fall flat like females not knowing George Michael was gay lol
Love to hear your plausible argument.
Resident cynic.
Anonymous18I agree with you that this can go forever. We have our ways to look at this world and the events that take place in it.
Afterall, your “just asking questions”. But cant provide a more plausible argument than whats been given.
The idea is raising questions when I see things don’t add up beyond a reasonable doubt. The evidence that does exist is akin to drawing a conclusion (it was an act of terrorism) and ignoring the evidence available then and what had consequently happened thereafter that raises doubts about the official narrative.
See it as if I were a jury. It’s the prosecutors job to argue plausibility. You can’t declare the jury delusion or idiotic because the prosecutor f~~~s up.
I will let this thread hang where it is for now. We can really go back and forth forever.
But what you can take as a plausible argument is the way the world is shaping up 9/11 is not an exception. To justify their means the powers manufacture conflict.
The real conspiracy I believe in is the US downfall is in execution phase by the globalists. And they will voluntarily tell you who did 9/11. And it won’t be 19 Arabic sandpeople. The erosion of American citizen confidence in the great nation is a prerequisite. Syria is the beginning.
Let’s pause this here and I hope to resume our discourse before Obama’s presidency is over. I have a feeling we will be told that the official narrative was a lie altogether. To further erode the confidence.
Now that you can attack me with. That is what I postulate. That is what I call a conspiracy THEORY.
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