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Bladerunner 4 years, 8 months ago.
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Hey everyone,
After poking around the site, reading some of your stories, spending too much time sidetracked with Bill Burr, hitting up google for MGTOW and just poking around I was surprised at the amount of anger/bitterness within the community. Sure, during the course of my divorce I was p~~~ed, each time I write my alimony check I wish unspecified amounts of harm onto a particular individual, but women in general …. The more aware/red pill I become, the more I simply don’t give a f~~~ about what women do, think or want. Not so much in an angry ‘I hate those f~~~ing c~~~s’ type way but more of a serene ‘I don’t give a s~~~’ to the point where ‘I don’t give a s~~~’ doesn’t even register, I just don’t.
Another thing that has me at odds with identifying with the whole MGTOW community are some of the guys you see on youtube acting like a male version of feminist harpies. To me (and I might be way off the mark here) ‘my own way’ is MY own way, not a life wherein in actively avoid, despise or resent women. Somehow that comes across as still living a life driven by women or focused on women, not a life YOU chose but one you are forced into.
Something else I came to realize which helped me get to my present blissful state of being is that you can’t (shouldn’t?) fault a woman for being a woman any more than you can fault a mosquito for being a mosquito. They simply are and unless you take the necessary precautions can ruin your day, week, life fairly quick equally. I’d throw out a cheesy ‘hate the game, not the player’ but even that doesn’t apply since if you’re driven by hate for anything, you’re still reacting and not on paving YOUR way. Understanding the game seems more appropriate.
Anyway, just curious what the MGTOW community is/is supposed to be. The idea sounds promising but it seems to be branching out in every which way (or maybe the wrong people identify as MGTOW?).
Would love to hear what everyone has to say and/or identifies as MGTOW.
BR
I do understand your concerns but there are guys at all levels here.
Some are just getting to grips, some gagging on pills. Others have just been shafted and a few old bastards who … well just don’t give a s~~~.
You will find it impossible to pin mgtow down because …. well …
It’s men going their own way and thats like hurding cats. That’s it’s beauty.
The hate, anger and rage will pass with them eventually. That’s when they find who they are now.
The more …. er .. experienced mgtow will have an attitude of ‘indifference’ toward women. Neither like nor hate them … just … nothing.
Emotions can be high … very high … but we MUST cut them some slack for they have well and truly been shafted from all sides of society.
This is one of the very few places they can heal and ‘become’
Here’s a way to look at it:
1) “Hatred” for women is a misconception. We have a disregard for them. If we truly “hated” them, we’d be out calling for their death, keying their cars, burning their houses down, etc. While feminists wish that upon men in general, MGTOW don’t wish that upon women as far as I’ve seen (unless in jest). That’s what makes us different from the feminist harpies. We’re logical, they’re emotional. We just don’t care about them. We’ll let them take care of themselves as they’ve screamed that they want to do in the first place, according to the feminists. We’re refusing to return to the “plantation.”
2) Men come on here and voice their anger over relationships/marriages that screwed them for life, so anger would be a logical emotion to show in this case. Emotions aren’t a sin, they’re just not what should be used to make decisions or “truths.” I have never been married myself, nor do I have any children, but I have experienced several abusive relationships, and this page is great for “getting steam off,” if you will.
This site (among other MGTOW communities and videos) is a great source that sure beats any gynocentric psychiatrists that I’ve ever visited.
Anonymous1I was surprised at the amount of anger/bitterness within the community
Well, I will not fault people from feeling anger. Although it is not the best emotion to live by, men are humans and we should be allowed to feel anger. And since there is never support to men, only shaming, I will not add fuel to the fire, but I will not put it out either. Sometimes good things come from bad experiences.
Sure, during the course of my divorce I was p~~~ed, each time I write my alimony check I wish unspecified amounts of harm onto a particular individual, but women in general …. The more aware/red pill I become, the more I simply don’t give a f~~~ about what women do, think or want. Not so much in an angry ‘I hate those f~~~ing c~~~s’ type way but more of a serene ‘I don’t give a s~~~’ to the point where ‘I don’t give a s~~~’ doesn’t even register, I just don’t.
Well, that’s good for you, but you don’t need to be/have been into divorce or married to feel the injustice towards men. Again, it is great that you don’t feel anger anymore, but some of us, hell, even if you say most of us are angry, that doesn’t make us WRONG. As was said before, and I will say it again: Anger is a natural emotion when confronted with injustice.
Another thing that has me at odds with identifying with the whole MGTOW community are some of the pussies you see on youtube acting like a male version of feminist harpies. To me (and I might be way off the mark here) ‘their own way’ is MY own way, not an alternate reality wherein in actively avoid, despise or resent women. Somehow that comes across as still living a live driven by women, not a life YOU chose but one you feel forced into.
Yes, I believe you are off the mark here. This version of MGTOW you describe is the same as Aaron Clarey and Paul Elam defend. The version that you are only MGTOW if you can get pussy, but choose not to. What if some people decide to go mgtow because they didn’t have a chance in the first place? Should they resent not ever being “attractive” to women? What if they were actually “forced” to go their own way, does that make their journey less valid? What if they WANT to actively avoid women, have resent or despise them? I somehow fit into this category. I went Mgtow initially because I felt had no other choice, and doing so improved my perspective of life CONSIDERABLY. I don’t despise women, although I would be lying if I said didn’t resent them a little bit and I do actively avoid them as much as I can. Should I not? Why should I care about them anyway? My feelings are my own, and as long as I don’t do any physical harm to them, or don’t try to get in trouble, I am not wrong on feeling what I do, and acting how I act. And despite that I consider myself Mgtow.
On top of that, most of us are FORCED into many other circumstances and nobody seem to care about our “feeling” towards these choices that are shoved into us. Some of us are FORCED to go to the army for example. I don’t see people questioning the decisions of those that decide to make a military career out of it. So why, if a person was FORCED to be MGTOW, his decision to continue being MGTOW should be questioned?
Beside, trying to avoid PROBLEMS (a.k.a women) are not necessarily living driven by it. I don’t go out of my way to avoid women, but if there is a route where the interaction with them is as little as possible, that’s the route I will take.
Something else I can to realize which helped me get to my present blissful state of being is that you can’t (shouldn’t?) fault a woman for being a woman any more than you can fault a mosquito for being a mosquito. They simply are and unless you take the necessary precautions can ruin your day, week, life fairly quick equally. I’d throw out a cheesy ‘hate the game, not the player’ but even that doesn’t apply since if you’re driven by hate for anything, you’re still reacting and not on paving YOUR way. Understanding the game seems more appropriate.
Again, I call bulls~~~ on this one. This is bailing women out of their AGENCY. They CHOOSE to do what they do from their own FREE WILL. MEN and WOMEN have instincts, not all of them good for the group, and yet MEN are the ones with the RESPONSABILITY to refrain and control them, but WOMEN somehow get a pass? A… pussy pass? No, not with me. If being a woman means being a deceitful creature that thing she is entitled to lie, cheat and sacrifice men for their own gains, you can be sure as hell I will blame women for being a women. There SHOULD be STANDARDS for women, and these “women will be women” excuse was used to many times. I will not tolerate certain behaviors (emotional blackmail, cheat, steal, KILL) it doesn’t matter if the perpetrator is a WOMAN or if such behavior is a WOMEN’s BEHAVIOR.
What you are proposing is that we just “accept” women as they are, and therefore don’t demand any RESPONSABILITY from them, and that I will not do. If “bitching” is the consequence of that, so f~~~ing be it.
Besides, women are 50% of the population. How in the nine hells do you “PAVE YOUR WAY” ignoring, or NOT reacting, to the actions of HALF OF EARTH’s POPULATION? Unless you live into a vacuum it is NOT POSSIBLE.
I mostly agree, but that anger is going to be a part of us. It is good to address it, so that men know there can be a life beyond the anger, but angry men are a part of MGTOW. I just try to focus our anger off of other men and onto other targets. Most of us have been there. It will pass. It would be nice to have standards for a woman, but take a look around. It isn’t happening. The best thing to do is avoid them altogether if you put your well being first.
Going your own way is different for each man that does it, I have no hate for women, but I no longer look to them for love and true friendship. Once, a long time ago I do think they were much different, but that time is long gone. Sure, I am certain that there are women out there doing their own thing, but those women have no interest in men, just as MGTOW’s have no interest in women for the most part. I do not hate women, but I am a realist, and see what they are really like, and in western society it is not good. I can think of no worse fate than marrying and making kids, I would rather die.
spending too much time sidetracked with Bill Burr,
Spending too much time with Bill Burr? Is that even possible? If so, give George Carlin and Chris Rock a look see.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
Many of the men who are shouting the loudest have had divorces which would be the equivalent to stripping the flesh off their bodies and then having them beaten to a pulp with their children. Yeah that bad.
You will find much the same hate on women’s forums where they discuss their hatred of men after divorces. There is a crucial difference. Here, women scream at us calling this forum a Misogynists forum and we should all die in a fire. On the women’s forums they all huddle around the poor suffering woman offering platitudes and comfort while she has taken half the mans net worth and his children after divorcing him for irreconcilable differences.
MGTOW is not a cult, not a religion, “revenge” or a hate group as many imbeciles would have you believe. Its a philosophy of simplification and of reason. Simplify your life and say no to the unreasonable marriage and custody laws. Turn your back on this mess and find something interesting to do with your life and time. If you have children, you be the best damn father you can. Make sure they know that you will not be an absent father. (Even when they become teenagers and you want to strangle them.) Its having the will to say “I do not need a relationship with a woman to have self worth”
But what about all the hate of women in these forums? Just men working out our s~~~. With men, eventually the anger fades, but the trust is gone. As an old time MGHOW I’m pleasant with women, treat them with the basic respect I afford all people I encounter in life.
If you are looking for a political or social movement, you won’t find that here. You should head over to the MRA forums. MGTOW is about simplification of life and I could think of nothing more complex or futile than a political / social movement. Perhaps women will change the laws, perhaps not (most likely), but to a MGHOW its irrelevant. We have tipped our hat to the whole mess, put on our hiking boots and backpack as we head out the door to whatever existential roads we decide to wander down.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
you can’t (shouldn’t?) fault a woman for being a woman any more than you can fault a mosquito for being a mosquito.
The hell you can’t. Mosquitoes don’t pretend to be anything other than mosquitoes.
You will NEVER hear a mosquito say: “Not all mosquitoes are like that.”
Concern troll gonna be concern troll.
#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.
He is correct in that women shouldn’t be hated, just their actions and thoughts. Wait…
I am apathetic, but it’s easier to have a cautious level of fear that comes off as hatred than naiveté that ultimately damns you. Plus you may not care about women, and still look at the woman who decides to be a bitch to her man for no reason and hate her. The same way you can not care about cars and love one. The only problem there is that car is an exception, that woman is not.
"You can keep your soul, I don't want a cell-mate." - Them Crooked Vultures
Concern troll gonna be concern troll.
yup. but I am willing to give it the benefit of a doubt and see how it pans out.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
BadKan, thanks for the lengthy reply,I understand and appreciate all of it yet we’ll have to agree to disagree on several of those points. I do want to clarify my thoughts about the part your reply below refers to.
Today’s women by choice, design or environment have ridiculous expectations, don’t possess the ability to reason and are able to justify anything they think, say or do when those expectations are not met. Their expectations will never be met, by the way. Once the f~~~ing hive mentality takes over you can forget about anything that remotely resembles coherent thoughts. Without giving them a pussy pass and saying it’s OK (it’s not) I do think it’s reasonable (necessary?) to accept that as fact and plot your life accordingly.
I don’t care much about what should, could or would be. I’m more concerned about what is.
Again, I call bulls~~~ on this one. This is bailing women out of their AGENCY. They CHOOSE to do what they do from their own FREE WILL. MEN and WOMEN have instincts, not all of them good for the group, and yet MEN are the ones with the RESPONSABILITY to refrain and control them, but WOMEN somehow get a pass? A… pussy pass? No, not with me. If being a woman means being a deceitful creature that thing she is entitled to lie, cheat and sacrifice men for their own gains, you can be sure as hell I will blame women for being a women. There SHOULD be STANDARDS for women, and these “women will be women” excuse was used to many times. I will not tolerate certain behaviors (emotional blackmail, cheat, steal, KILL) it doesn’t matter if the perpetrator is a WOMAN or if such behavior is a WOMEN’s BEHAVIOR. What you are proposing is that we just “accept” women as they are, and therefore don’t demand any RESPONSABILITY from them, and that I will not do. If “bitching” is the consequence of that, so f~~~ing be it. Besides, women are 50% of the population. How in the nine hells do you “PAVE YOUR WAY” ignoring, or NOT reacting, to the actions of HALF OF EARTH’s POPULATION? Unless you live into a vacuum it is NOT POSSIBLE.
You’re going to find anger and bitterness. It’s not what mgtow is about I beleive but this is a men only space, a white knight free safe place and for some maybe the only place they can vent their frusterations without inciting some major backlash. That’s all I see it as, not true hatred, just frustration that needs release and once it’s all out I hope they can reach the level of not giving a f~~~ you have.
Anonymous1I don’t care much about what should, could or would be. I’m more concerned about what is.
Well, me too.
I get that there are “mgtows” that can’t let go. And sometimes they use “anger” as an excuse to talk absurd things. I will not defend every Mgtow just because of a label, and if someone is talking s~~~, I will point it out.
The thing is, just being “angry” doesn’t invalidate the stance of a person. Just because someone couldn’t get “female attention” doesn’t mean that person doesn’t have some insight on relationship by observing other people that do.
You seemed too focused on the “anger and bitterness”, on the “can’t get laid” or “don’t try” to get female attention, so on and so forth. I am all for criticism, but on things that, as you stated, are. Emotional states, specially on men, ARE often ignored or shamed. So criticizing that, and only that, doesn’t fit well with me. Unless you are talking of something extreme (like someone saying to go into a berserk rage or doing something really stupid), I really don’t see anything wrong with it. I might not condone it, but I will not tell the guy that he shouldn’t be upset, or angry, specially with the lack of empathy and responsibility of the opposite sex (so much for women being the gentler sex).
Just wanted to make this clear.
Cheers.
Hate is a kind of emotional reasoning. So is love.
Emotional reasoning is a feminine trait.
Being very wary of women is simply prudent.
Women are wary of other women when their interests are potentially at odds.See “women agress against sexy peer”
Women have a built in in group bias so women just do not have men’s best interests at heart or in mind.
Women will cheer another woman who cuts off a man’s dick.Shamelessly on national tv.
Women will cheer another woman who takes her husband “to the cleaners”
Women who falsely accuse a man of rape will almost never face consequences .
Women who commit crimes like murder ,domestic violence, sex crimes,theft etc often get a slap on the wrist compared to what men get for the same crime.
Women are the vast majority of people who file for divorce.
I could go on and on about things that are ignored, denied and covered up.
Above half of unilateral DV
About half of unwanted and coersersed sexual encounters.see “forced to penetrate ”
The vast majority of emotional abuse see relational aggression.
For men who look there are lots of reasons for men to say No.
And
Go Their Own Way.
Re
frankly my dear i don't give a damn
Yes, you are correct, we are many and branching out in different ways as we have come from many different places and situations as we have been treated or effected by women. Some men have come from bitter divorces where they have lost much of their empire. Some like myself have come from several divorces only to find they could never become my dream of a long and happily married life once the female decided she was no longer happy. However, the basic premise I feel of the movement MGTOW is; each man is coming to this movement because of his own situation and has his own reason for becoming MGTOW. Along with this is one very realistic movement that has been in existence since 1932 is the feminist movement. This feminist movement in the beginning was to make things better for women. Which at the beginning, their main issue was the right to vote. They got it. However, now in today’s world, it has become male bashing so much so that one could say that feminism is misandry. I have become aware of much of women’s rants on YouTube and found it eye opening as to the level of hate for men that is going on. So, the feminist movement is part of the reason many men are becoming MGTOW. Also, the feminist movement is taking over the media, magazine printing, and newspapers in what they say about women’s issues etc. Look at the commercials, look at the news articles, look at our educational system where young boys are taught to play with dolls and girls toys, and no more dodge ball for boys or girls, just to name a very few. Yes, some men are angry, however, if you look around, the women are very, very angry and it is now into the United Nations. The United Nations is in support of the new HisForHer movement. You have got to be kidding me. So, you see? This will effect us more and more. I like women, will date them on my terms if I so desire, but will never get married and let the mangina courts distribute my money to the female ever again. I am MGTOW!
It’s been said here many times before, shaking your fist at the way women are is like shaking your fist at the sun for gamma rays…. or at kangaroo for hopping. Exact analogies. In that way, you’re absolutely right on the mosquitos thing.
So it would help if you don’t think of a “moral” issue – because it’s not.
It’s a legal issue.
This is where people get confused. Tragically.
If I don’t want to give some woman the key to my place…..
it’s not about not giving a woman the key to my place.See the difference?? I didn’t even MENTION the state or the legal implications. But to the untrained ear, a man who says that will be misunderstood as having “issues with women”…. or he “hates women”… and that’s where the whole “YOU HATE WOMEN !!!YOU MISOGYNIST!!!!” s~~~ comes from. This is when MGTOW have to roll their f~~~ing eyes and start explaining to a newbie “i don’t f~~~ing hate women, get away from me with that s~~~”…. and now you can see how it gets lost in manslation.
Now, when a MGTOW says to another man: “don’t f~~~ing sign a marriage contract under any circumstances, you dumb s~~~!” is he really “anti marriage”? Is that statement anti-female?
…. or is he in the pro-male best interest.
?
• “Don’t ever date a single mother” is in the male best interest.
• “Make sure you put tabasco sauce in your condom when you’re done” is in the male best interest.
• “A marriage contract fails a cost/benefit analysis” is in the male best interest.
• “It’s still legal in this country for a woman to allow herself to get pregnant without a man’s consent.”… is a FACT. It’s not “misogyny”.A pro-male agenda is not inherently anti-female. This is why we make it VERY clear, it’s for “men only”. We do not say “no women allowed”. Another important difference. If it were at all about “hating women” (or being anti-female) we wouldn’t so politely provide them wall of pictures of cute kittens to choose from when we insist they exit POLITELY. That’s a gesture of kindness and even contains an element of humor so that we can SMILE as we show her the door.
Now, when a woman IGNORES the “men going their own way” and “men only” message, then she has just asked for exactly what she’s going to get. We don’t walk around knocking the cappuccinos out of their hands, keying their cars, or setting their cats on fire. That would be an “anti-female” message. When those people don’t even have the CAPACITY to understand the difference between “men only” and “women f~~~ off”, it is THEIR problem.
“It’s still legal in this country for a woman to allow herself to get pregnant without a man’s consent.”
Say that to a woman and she will start f~~~ing STEAMING between the ears.
HER problem. NOT his.If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.I don’t mind admitting I’m angry. I get angry with all forms of bullying and unfair treatment and push back accordingly. The fact that you are surprised to find anger here is surprising to me, and well, a bit tuna.
I only found this group of gentlemen a few weeks ago and it is this group alone which has greatly reduced my anger. In the “real world” men can’t openly talk about their issues without being shamed or ostracised.
Trust me MGTOW is helping to reduce anger and saving a lot of guys from long term mental health issues. I feel my anger subsiding just writing that.
Anonymous1Along with this is one very realistic movement that has been in existence since 1932 is the feminist movement. This feminist movement in the beginning was to make things better for women. Which at the beginning, their main issue was the right to vote.
No, that it is not correct. The feminist wanted the right to vote WITHOUT THE OBLIGATIONS. That’s not equal rights, that’s SUPERIOR rights. Men got to vote because, in case of war, men are OBLIGATED to got to war to DIE. Tell me, where is the equality on this?
If I am not mistaken, in the past, there was a law that would make women ACTUALLY EQUAL to men, with conscription and all, and the women made EVERYTHING on their power to take it down, and they succeeded.
In the fall of 1942 there were rumors that a bill would reach the floor of the Senate that would include a section asking for the drafting of nurses into the armed forces. The WCOC, originally naming themselves the Committee to Oppose the Conscription of Women, was organized to oppose this measure. Many of the early supporters of the Committee were also active members of the Women’s International League for Peace and Freedom. Mildred Scott Olmsted, the director of the new organization had served in branch and national offices of the WILPF since 1922 and continued to work at the national offices in addition to her position at the WCOC. Other WILPF members of the new Committee included Emily Greene Balch, Dorothy Detzer, Hannah Clothier Hull, and Gertrude Bussey, all leaders of the League. The close connection between the two organizations insured the philosophy of the WCOC was grounded in the equal rights of women.
Source: http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/DG051-099/dg068.wcoc/dg068.wcochistory.htm
So please, don’t compare mgtow to feminism. Or ANY of the women’s movements. They always fought for their rights, on the MEN’s LIVES expense…
If I am misrepresenting something, let me know.
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