Death

[HermitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

Hermit wrote:

I think you don’t want to believe. That’s your choice, a choice given to you by God.

This is an easy point for me to address. To be honest, I can’t believe in a god. My brain will just no longer allow it. It’s not a choice for me at all.

Do you yourself choose not believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy? Does the way your mind work give you the option to believe or disbelieve in the Easter Bunny?

Atheism is just the rational acknowledgment of reality…

Fair enough. As I said, it was only an assumption on my part since I do not know you. I’m glad you told me that. The funny thing about it though is, my mind is working the same as yours where I am unable to not believe in God. I have no choice either. I couldn’t make myself not believe in God even if I wanted to. For me there is no rationale in believing that we and the universe exist without God, the Creator.

The evil in women’s hearts leaves them no moral bounds as to inhibit them from descending to the lowest levels of darkness to acquire their self entitled desires.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Hermit wrote:

For me there is no rationale in believing that we and the universe exist without God, the Creator.

I think we can agree that our minds certainly work differently (or work the ‘same’ but in opposite directions). I suppose that’s why I will never truly, fully understand why Theists think the way that they do. I guess I’ll just have to learn to live live with never really “wrapping my head around it”…

[HermitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

Hermit wrote:

Thank you, Autolite, for having this discussion with me. Again, sorry if I’ve not given you good enough answers, but I hope at least, that it’s been somewhat interesting for you.

And thank you for answering me and not taking offense.

For me as an Atheist, it’s hard being honest without offending somebody. The Theist will often think that I’m deliberately trying to be rude and disrespectful when I compare belief in a god to belief in Leprechauns or other such imaginary critters.

I’m not intentionally trying to offend. I just try to explain it as I honestly and sincerely see it…

Ha, that’s funny. You’d have a hard time trying to offend me. If you were actually trying, I’d just ignore you as I do others on here who seem to thrive on conflict and arguing.

I suppose the “praying to the jug of milk” video may have offended some so called believers, but if they are true believers, there would be no offense in them.

I think I can almost understand how someone could not believe in God, almost. Some say that scientifically, God can’t exist. I say, God created science. I will understand if you can’t see the logic in that. LOL

The evil in women’s hearts leaves them no moral bounds as to inhibit them from descending to the lowest levels of darkness to acquire their self entitled desires.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Hermit wrote:

I think I can almost understand how someone could not believe in God,

It’s important that Theists understand that non-belief in god is not a choice or that belief is an option for a true Atheist. Atheism is just a realization, or a conclusion, based on one’s own experiences and observations.

Just try and think of it as the non-belief in things like the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. I, like most kids in Western society, once believed in them all. But over time, as I grew and my mind developed, the beliefs in such things just evaporated.

Exactly the same thing happened with respect to my religious beliefs. ‘God’ was just the last one to go…

[MonkParticipant 16984]

Define ‘God’.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Hermit wrote:

I suppose the “praying to the jug of milk” video may have offended some so called believers, but if they are true believers, there would be no offense in them.

Sometimes when one is presented with an absolutely irrefutable logical argument that effectively counters what they want to believe to be true, the default reaction is to act offended or claim to be insulted.

That’s what I’ve found to be the case anyway… 🙁

[AutoliteParticipant]

Monk wrote:

Define ‘God’.

An omnipotent supernatural being capable of doing absolutely anything. Nothing is impossible. Like how about inventing a completely new primary colour?

A trick like that would certainly make me a believer…

[SwimcatParticipant 3589]

I had to run from a forest fire last week. I wasn’t in immediate danger, but I would have been had I stayed put. I was hiking in California, first night out. Ran back to my truck as fast as I could. I shouldn’t have gone in the first place. No more hikes for me this year, too dangerous.

[MonkParticipant 16984]

Autolite wrote:

An omnipotent supernatural being capable of doing absolutely anything.

OK … omnipotence.

How about omniscience, omnipresence?

Does that being have to be a conscious? Or is it an impersonal force?

[AutoliteParticipant]

Monk wrote:

OK … omnipotence.

How about omniscience, omnipresence?

Does that being have to be a conscious? Or is it an impersonal force?

I don’t want to be too demanding. Omnipotence would be enough for me. If the f~~~er could do just one single outright ‘impossible’ thing, like maybe regenerate a severed human head, then I’ll worship it…

[EyeswideopenParticipant 2930]

I see death on a daily basis; it does place things into perspective.

It’s the one, unifying force that no one can escape. When you are young, most of us have the false belief that we will all live into our 90s and die quietly in our sleep. Sadly, this is not the likely case.

My perspective on this has changed, as it tends to do, as one gets older. Loosing grandparents and especially parents drives home the notion that it can happen to you, and life is not “fair”. Death does not discriminate against race/creed/gender (although statistically women live slightly longer).

I’m a saver and investor, but as I crest 40, I realize that life is to be enjoy.

You can’t take money/property with you – the only thing that you have a chance of taking with you, past the veil, in some form, is an experience.

I’m not advocating financial irresponsibility either, just balance. I’m finding as I get older, time is my most precious asset. I limit my work partially to deny single moms hard earned spoils via government handouts, but also to enjoy life and relax.

- Marriage is described as an institution. You would have to be crazy to be commited to it. -"If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal. Not people or things" Albert Einstein

[HermitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

Hermit wrote:

I suppose the “praying to the jug of milk” video may have offended some so called believers, but if they are true believers, there would be no offense in them.

Sometimes when one is presented with an absolutely irrefutable logical argument that effectively counters what they want to believe to be true, the default reaction is to act offended or claim to be insulted.

That’s what I’ve found to be the case anyway…

I guess that’s why I wasn’t offended. It wasn’t irrefutable logic and countered nothing. I just laughed at it. I couldn’t feel any offence or insult because to me it was just nonsense.

The evil in women’s hearts leaves them no moral bounds as to inhibit them from descending to the lowest levels of darkness to acquire their self entitled desires.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Hermit wrote:

I guess that’s why I wasn’t offended. It wasn’t irrefutable logic and countered nothing. I just laughed at it. I couldn’t feel any offence or insult because to me it was just nonsense.

We’re talking about the ‘milk jug’ video here, right?

I agree that the explanation might have been a little bit clumsy, but for me the rationality and logic of it was rock solid. Can you describe what doesn’t make sense to you about the video? What was it about the video that you saw as being “nonsense”???

[HermitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

Hermit wrote:

I guess that’s why I wasn’t offended. It wasn’t irrefutable logic and countered nothing. I just laughed at it. I couldn’t feel any offence or insult because to me it was just nonsense.

We’re talking about the ‘milk jug’ video here, right?

I agree that the explanation might have been a little bit clumsy, but for me the rationality and logic of it was rock solid. Can you describe what doesn’t make sense to you about the video? What was it about the video that you saw as being “nonsense”???

I wasn’t trying to be rude. I’m obviously not going to see any rock solid logic in something that tries to refute what I believe to be true and real. It would be like me trying to prove to you that the Easter Bunny is real because I found some chocolate eggs.

The evil in women’s hearts leaves them no moral bounds as to inhibit them from descending to the lowest levels of darkness to acquire their self entitled desires.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Hermit wrote:

I wasn’t trying to be rude.

Yes, I know that. You weren’t rude at all.

Hermit wrote:

I’m obviously not going to see any rock solid logic in something that tries to refute what I believe to be true and real.

What the ‘milk jug’ video was saying was that the results of prayer will be the same whether you’re praying to a god, a milk jug or whatever you pray to. It has been studied and shown that prayer has absolutely zero real influence on any outcome.

Did you not see this? Maybe you are “not going to see any rock solid logic” because you are simply refusing to open your eyes and just look…

[HermitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

Hermit wrote:

I wasn’t trying to be rude.

Yes, I know that. You weren’t rude at all.

Hermit wrote:

I’m obviously not going to see any rock solid logic in something that tries to refute what I believe to be true and real.

What the ‘milk jug’ video was saying was that the results of prayer will be the same whether you’re praying to a god, a milk jug or whatever you pray to. It has been studied and shown that prayer has absolutely zero real influence on any outcome.

Did you not see this? Maybe you are “not going to see any rock solid logic” because you are simply refusing to open your eyes and just look…

Oh man, I gotta’ laugh, because it seems like you’re trying to prove to me and get me to believe that there’s no God. My friend, we’ve already established that both of us have no choice in what we believe. I can show you what I believe is evidence of God and you’re not going to buy any of it.

My eyes are wide open, man. From my point of view, you are the one who has closed your eyes.

I think we have reached the end of this discussion as we’re beginning to go around in circles, but I won’t mind if you want to continue. Again, I’m glad we could talk about it as gentlemen.

The evil in women’s hearts leaves them no moral bounds as to inhibit them from descending to the lowest levels of darkness to acquire their self entitled desires.

[CarnageParticipant 22113]

F~~~ god.

To those following me, be careful, I just farted. Men those beans are killers.

[AutoliteParticipant]

Hermit wrote:

I think we have reached the end of this discussion as we’re beginning to go around in circles, but I won’t mind if you want to continue. Again, I’m glad we could talk about it as gentlemen.

Well, you’re replying but not really answering my questions. But that’s okay.

I have actually gained some real insight from our discussion and I want to thank you for that. It’s now clear to me that our minds work far more differently than I had ever previously suspected. Our perceptions of what’s logical or rational are certainly vastly disparate. We’re really on two different planets in that respect.

I understand better now why the typical Atheist vs Theist type of discussions end up “going in circles” and are for the most part futile (other than for perhaps entertainment purposes).

It would be extremely difficult to reach any kind of real consensus when we think and process ideas so differently…

[AutoliteParticipant]

Carnage wrote:

F~~~ god.

Define “f~~~”…

[HermitParticipant]

Autolite wrote:

Hermit wrote:

I think we have reached the end of this discussion as we’re beginning to go around in circles, but I won’t mind if you want to continue. Again, I’m glad we could talk about it as gentlemen.

Well, you’re replying but not really answering my questions. But that’s okay.

I have actually gained some real insight from our discussion and I want to thank you for that. It’s now clear to me that our minds work far more differently than I had ever previously suspected. Our perceptions of what’s logical or rational are certainly vastly disparate. We’re really on two different planets in that respect.

I understand better now why the typical Atheist vs Theist type of discussions end up “going in circles” and are for the most part futile (other than for perhaps entertainment purposes).

It would be extremely difficult to reach any kind of real consensus when we think and process ideas so differently…

I tried to answer most of your questions, but some of them I just don’t know how to answer, even though, I believe we think more similarly than you do. I understand logic and rationale and we would both probably apply those the same to everything else in life except this one subject. I love science and I understand wanting proof to show something is real. I have my proof, but you can’t believe in it any more than I can believe in the explanation in the milk jug video. Before I received my proof though, I first had faith.

The evil in women’s hearts leaves them no moral bounds as to inhibit them from descending to the lowest levels of darkness to acquire their self entitled desires.

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