China Uncensored: A Real Dystopian Nightmare

[Anonymous 1]

Ranger One wrote:

Why bother imposing your will on the people to force them to do what you want, when you can brainwash the people into wanting what you want them to want?

Its much more efficient to have free-range slaves who think that they are free and not slaves, than it is to have hard-core slavery with chains and overseers with whips.

Exactly. The Science of Brainwashing is so perfected today. “The Ultimate Revolution” as Huxley called it.

[SandalsParticipant 4253]

The guy in the video’s pronunciation of Chinese names is perfect. He must speak quite a bit of Chinese, if not fluent.

This is why when people like FrankOne talk about China, even though he has no idea what he is talking about, I just go all nuts. I can’t stand it when people who know absolutely ZERO about a subject or a people start educating the rest of us.

[SandalsParticipant 4253]

[iMickey503Participant 12465]

I don’t really live there. But I can’t really complain. Everyone I know that does live there from the west likes it. SO whatever. I’m just glad the Chinese get to be Chinese. They are not f~~~ing with it like they did Africa, so who cares. They are making their own rules and doing their own thing.

If they really want to see some change, then it will happen. Its sad that most of us think more about others than ourselves.

You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home

[SuggestiusParticipant 3312]

iMickey503 wrote:

I don’t really live there. But I can’t really complain. Everyone I know that does live there from the west likes it.

People hardly admit their failures. Moreover when they changed one of the most successful countries in the world for China.

Happiness for all and let no one be forgotten ("Roadside picnic", Arkady and Boris Strugatsky)

[Anonymous 1]

iMickey503 wrote:

I’m just glad the Chinese get to be Chinese.

They don’t though.

When the CCP first took over they outlawed all traditional religions. Even Kung Fu was outlawed. They went on a campaign smashing ancient Chinese artifacts and even encouraged the Youth to do so.

Traditional Chinese scholars and poets spoke out against the destruction of their history and they were arrested and put in forced labor camps.

The CCP has redefined what it means to be “Chinese.”

Communism attempts to “free” its Citizens from the past. They do this by declaring war on your traditional way of life.

Watch this video…

Then watch this one…

[Anonymous 1]

Suggestius wrote:

People hardly admit their failures. Moreover when they changed one of the most successful countries in the world for China.

Yes, but in order for China to become successful they had to allow Private Property again. Now China is heavily owned by private companies. In other words, the communist Economy was a massive failure causing untold suffering and starvation.

Once they moved the Economy over to Capitalism they started to succeed. They also had a lot of help from US Presidents and the “Free Trade Agreements.”

[Anonymous 1]

iMickey503 wrote:

If they really want to see some change, then it will happen. Its sad that most of us think more about others than ourselves.

They do want change, but the last time they demanded it was 1989. The students demanding it were attacked by the Chinese Military. Gunned down in the streets and run over with tanks.

The reason I care about China is not because I care more about them than USA. The reason is because I understand that China is a prototype of a system of Governance. That system will be used here in USA. If they can do it in China they can do it here too.

[SuggestiusParticipant 3312]

IMHO it’s wiser not to fight with the seeds, but to make soil unsuitable for their germination.

Happiness for all and let no one be forgotten ("Roadside picnic", Arkady and Boris Strugatsky)

[Anonymous 1]

This poor bastard survived Tiananmen. He risked his life saving a woman and lost his legs. The woman he saved denied it all.

[Anonymous 1]

Suggestius wrote:

IMHO it’s wiser not to fight with the seeds, but to make soil unsuitable for their germination.

Yes, this is the Communist strategy. You don’t fight the intellectual’s ideas. You destroy the culture that produced the intellectuals.

[Anonymous 1]

Suggestius wrote:

IMHO it’s wiser not to fight with the seeds, but to make soil unsuitable for their germination.

You should do a thread on the USSR and their Communist purges. I’m interested to know how the Russians feel about the History of the Bolsheviks and the “Red Terror.”

[SuggestiusParticipant 3312]

It’s too large and serious thread I won’t handle with. Briefly, mentally healthy people feel bad about any terror. Moral freaks, not necessarily pro-Communists, cheer the Red Terror.

Happiness for all and let no one be forgotten ("Roadside picnic", Arkady and Boris Strugatsky)

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

Is China a dystopia today? I’d say it depends who you are. For the woman in the video, sex trafficked? Yes

But, for most of the population it is a LOT better than in the past. You went from a time 40 years ago when 99% of the population lived in extreme poverty, under $3 per day, to now, with only 11% living in extreme poverty.

To minority groups like Uyghur muslims, absolutely dystopic. China has 12 million of them living in a province that is held under martial law. If any of them act up, they are thrown in what the Chinese government euphemestically calls a ‘vocational training center’.

There are probably around 30-50 million (estimates vary widely) Christians in China who are also persecuted. ANY minority population that might threaten the government, is persecuted. As is ANY organization that MIGHT threaten the government’s power. That is WHY Falun Gong is persecuted. Keep in mind, there are more Falun Gong practitioners, than there are Communist Party members. So the reason for the crackdown on a seemingly benign organization, is that ANY organization that has mass gatherings such as this, is a threat to the Government. It makes no difference that Falun Gong is merely engaged in qi·gong, a traditional Buddhist practice. The leadership fears religion, morphing into rebellion. It really is that simple. That is what the Chinese nationals I know who reside in the US, tell me.

China has an AUTHORITARIAN government.
At the same time, those who stay out of politics, are largely left alone. You can actually chart detainees by year here https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/political-prisoners-china-database_us_589a1d83e4b09bd304be3300

China is certainly AUTHORITARIAN, the level of POLITICAL freedom, is quite low — no free press, blocked internet, no right to assemble and protest, no freedom of religion, etc.

There are two types of liberty: Economic liberty and civil (political, religious, free press/association, etc) liberty. China ranks VERY low on civil liberty, and middle range on economic liberty.

The Chinese communist party MOST fears recession and depression — because absent delivering the economic ‘goods’, they may well be overthrown. There are both good and bad elements of this–mostly bad (Tiananmen Square crackdown, persecution of religions, Falun Gong, etc). There are a few GOOD aspects. Because they fear being overthrown, and the sheeple despise corruption, extreme corruption has on occasion been punished by DEATH. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-14197485 — in the US, in contrast, no matter HOW MUCH a public official steals, they will not be executed.

Mao was responsible for more deaths than anyone else in human history with the Great Leap Forward and the lesser, but still horrifying, Cultural Revolution that followed it. Can’t say I’ve ever personally known anyone defend him, certainly not any Chinese.

Similar to Russians I have known, these people tell me they keep their head low — staying out of politics.

That said, China is CERTAINLY not worse than North Korea, on net. A large percentage of the North Korean population is starving, or in the gulags.

Suggestius writes: Did you know that China of the second half of the 19’th century accounted for 11% of the world’s GDP ( today 15%)?
So? Did China become somewhat significant? Nope. In the 21’th century China won’t make it either.

Look at a chart of China’s GDP for the last 70 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_GDP_of_China#/media/File:GDP_per_capita_of_China_and_India.svg
(1.) GDP was flat until about 1980. That is the inflection point and the beginning of the meteoric rise (change in slope). Why? It is when Deng Xiaoping introduced economic reforms in ~Dec of 1979.
(2.) China shifted from an agrarian society to an industrial powerhouse in my lifetime. Its ranking by country, is the second highest GDP in the world.

Also, look at a chart of the GROWTH RATE of GDP for the US, China, and World.
https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_kd_zg&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_kd_zg&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:CHN:USA&ifdim=region&tdim=true&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

China has been growing at close to 7%; the US is stuck at 2.2%. So China’s GDP will eclipse the United States by 2030. EVEN IF you think it will drop off to 5%, it will STILL eclipse the US economy, merely taking longer. If the US wanted to have higher growth rates, the Sheeple would vote for smaller government. In China, the government is 14% of economic output; in the US, government spending comprises about 37% of economic output. You can argue all day that younger population, urbanization, etc have caused China to grow their economy three times faster than the US year-over-year, but big government is a major factor. Even looking at GDP per capita, China has faster growth than the US.

Wizard’s pupil writes: Yes, but in order for China to become successful they had to allow Private Property again. Now China is heavily owned by private companies. In other words, the communist Economy was a massive failure causing untold suffering and starvation.

Correct, 1980 is the approximate inflection point on the GDP curve, because economic reforms away from communism were implemented a year before. The change was almost immediate, with decollectivization of agriculture having the most profound impact initially.

Private property ownership is kind of complicated: While in rural areas, for agriculture, it was decollectivized starting in the 1970’s, It was only fully restored in URBAN areas, and that was VERY recently, 2017. When the revolution occurred, private ownership or rural land was not abolished; violent land reform merely changed the ownership. Collectivization of agriculture really started in the late 1950’s and with it, MASS starvation unlike anything before it in human history — the Great Leap Forward. So in the first 30 years after the Revolution, property rights declined; in the last 20 years, they increased. You could lease urban residential land for 70 years (land use rights [LUR] from the government), and industrial/commercial LUR’s for 50 years since the 1990’s. The 2017 decrees comprise the State essentially granting perpetual free renewals on land use rights (LUR) agreements made in the past — because of the powerful political interests of the landholders. Also, the decollectivization was not complete for agricultural land in 1979; rather the ‘People’s communes’ were divided into private plots, with tenants able to exercise formal control of their plots, but only if they sold a contracted portion of their crop to the government. So all these reforms have of course been gradual over 40 years.

Obviously, you do not have private ownership of land in a communist system by definition. That is why I argued in previous threads China is communist in name only.

[Anonymous 1]

FrankOne wrote:

Mao was responsible for more deaths than anyone else in human history with the Great Leap Forward and the lesser, but still horrifying, Cultural Revolution that followed it. Can’t say I’ve ever personally known anyone defend him, certainly not any Chinese.

Mao is still celebrated in China to this day. They have parades and songs about his greatness.

This would be like if Hitler was celebrated as a great hero in Germany. Its incredible, but yes Mao is still very much worshipped in China so much so that his visage is on all the money.

[Anonymous 1]

This video was demonetized by Youtube. I wonder why…?

[SuggestiusParticipant 3312]

The narrator on the video misses a sharp detail. He says that a Communists uprising led to the creation of the Soviet Union. It’s like to say, “the Cold War led to the collapse of the Soviet Union”. Logically it’s distorted, because there was the whole chain of events inside of the USSR that is only associated with the iternal processes of the Union itself. The Communist uprising led to the creation of the world’s first socialistic state, RSFSR.

Happiness for all and let no one be forgotten ("Roadside picnic", Arkady and Boris Strugatsky)

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

Wizard’s pupil: I did not say the State does not encourage idolizing Mao. This is done to give the regime credibility. Since he is a pivotal figure in the history of the ‘Communist’ party that holds power, but no longer prescribes to ‘Communism’ since 1979, Mao must officially be revered; to do otherwise, to disown him, would reflect badly upon the Party.

As I’ve stated previously, China’s recent crackdown on student communists https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/asia/peking-university-china-students-intl/index.html is conducted because the communist economic system has NOT been Chinese policy since the late 1970’s. So even leftists, if they challenge the Party or economic growth, will be brutally put down by the regime. The regime’s objective, like all others, is to stay in power. Economic growth is merely a tool to do so. A reversion back to collectivization would prove economically devastating and would likely cause counter-revolution.

As I stated above, I have not known ONE Chinese national who looks favorably on Mao. And I’ve known many. That said, these individuals were H1-B workers and students, NOT members of the Party — mostly foreign workers. Just as in Russia there are those who look favorably on Stalin, there are those who look favorably on Mao. I’ve just never met one.

Also, in Chinese schools, a distorted version of history is taught; the children are not taught about the number of deaths in the Great Leap Forward, they are taught that China was instrumental in defeating Japan in WWII, and many other incorrect facts (propaganda).

One of the other differences there vs here is, in the US, about 20% of degrees are awarded in STEM fields; in China, 40% are. That is why they are churning out 8 times as many STEM degrees per year than the US — it’s more than just population. Most degrees are useless. But STEM have some utility. The focus upon science and technology will inevitably lead to innovation.

[SuggestiusParticipant 3312]

FrankOne wrote:

Just as in Russia there are those who look favorably on Stalin

You will be shocked how they are many.

Happiness for all and let no one be forgotten ("Roadside picnic", Arkady and Boris Strugatsky)

[Anonymous 1]

FrankOne wrote:

As I stated above, I have not known ONE Chinese national who looks favorably on Mao. And I’ve known many. That said, these individuals were H1-B workers and students, NOT members of the Party — mostly foreign workers.

I understand, but the Chinese students we have met are skewed. They obviously are dissatisfied with China to a certain degree or they wouldn’t be studying/working abroad.

The Chinese students I talked to didn’t even know about Tiananmen square 1989. They had no idea and were in a state of shock and disbelief when they saw the video footage on Youtube.

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