Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Why PUAs Are Poisoning the Manosphere
Tagged: Icarus, PUAs, pump-and-dump
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Oz-Bloke 3 years, 10 months ago.
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Hi guys. This thread might be a little controversial but I need to vent my spleen and I am willing to cause some controversy in the process.
I the past, I have spent time on many different manosphere sites and I have come to the conclusion that PUAs are the cancer of the manosphere.
PUAs will typically say that “Any man can score with a hot woman.” This is blatantly false. There are plenty of men out there (such as myself) who have tried everything and still failed to attract a woman. I pushed my mind to it’s limit … and for what? I became full of stress and emotional scars but I didn’t get laid.
PUAs talk about something called the “80/20 rule”. 80 percent of women are f~~~ing the most attractive 20 percent of men. I actually agree with that. That’s why depressed, lonely men need to find a source of happiness that does not come from women. PUAs will claim that any man can become a member of the top 20% if he gives himself “discipline”. I will admit that a man can raise his SMV (sexual market value) if he follows strict self-discipline but some guys can’t succeed even with discipline.
The PUAs are essentially ignoring the fact that people are different and some men have crippling neurological disabilities that make being alpha impossible.
There are some men in this world who desperately crave some sort of emotional support … and can never get it from women.
The PUAs will sometimes claim that the MGTOW are hyper-individualist extremists. That is false. If we were hyper-individualists then we would not need sites like this one. Sites like this one exist so that men can share their thoughts and develop a sense of brotherhood. When a man is unwanted by women, he usually needs brotherhood in order to maintain his sanity. I personally believe that Elliot Rodger went nuts because he foolishly turned away the people who tried to be his friend during his hour of need. “Game” would not have helped that poor bastard. He was too broken at that point.
The PUAs talk about “male brotherhood” but I doubt that they even know what that means. If you are a “PUA alpha” then you essentially need to ruthlessly compete with other men in order to remain in the top %20. The PUAs basically claim that you need to stay at the top of your game at all times or else your girl will leave you for someone else. How could I possibly trust other men if I truly believed that?
PUAs claim the we need to repress and conquer our emotional weakness in order to attract a women. There is some accuracy to that … except our emotional weakness plays a large role in friendships. Furthermore, an “undisciplined” mind tends to have a wacky, surreal sense of humor and this keeps friendships together.
The best way to make friends is to find nerdy guys and talk to them about things that are silly and/or lulzy. Most of my friendships are like that.
I didn’t even get to the worst thing about PUAs. They will shame any man who settles for a sub-par woman even though some men don’t have any other options. Some men can only attract ugly women when they try their hardest and some men would rather date an ugly chick then be alone. I’m not trying to be a feminist who defends ugly women. I’m trying to defend the men who choose to date them. Perhaps the PUAs hate men who date ugly chicks because they hate any man who deviates from PUA dogma.
“How dare you date women that I wouldn’t f~~~? I’m normal and any man with different standards/preferences is obviously being a white knight!”
I’m also sick of this argument: “You shouldn’t date sluts because that contributes to female hypergamy!” To hell with that. Women are permanently screwed and there is nothing that I can do to fix them. I couldn’t possibly make things any worse.
PUA bulls~~~ is basically snake oil that makes men high-strung. It might get you laid if you were born with an especially normal brain but it will decrease your abilty to tell a joke, be spontaneous and form strong friendships with other men. It will also kill your imagination. That explains why PUAs like Roosh are into stuffy old-fashioned art that was made back when freethought was a sin and, as a result, imagination lay dormant.
TL;DR: “Game” is only for men who were born a certain way. It is not for everyone.
P.S. The title of the thread is, in fact, a reference to “Why Feminism is Poisoning Atheism” by Thunderf00t. Thanks for noticing.
MGTOW: because you can (and should) say anything about a woman as long as she isn't within earshot
I consider PUA to be the dark side of the red pill. Men whom decide to use and dump women as women had done to them.
With the light side of the red pill being MGTOW. Just walking away from the negative influences and living life the best one can.
PUAs can f~~~ all the women they want. I’ll be f~~~ing my fleshlight and using porn. And in their third generations, virtual reality headsets will become a lot better to where we can simulate real sex.
MGTOW couldn’t give a s~~~ what PUAs thought of us. If you need emotional support, come here on the forums to vent your frustrations and ask for help. If you need emotional support outside of the internet, get a group of friends that you can rely on or get a few dogs.
This is what I plan on doing.
Men age like fine wine. Women age like milk. "One hundred women are not worth a single testicle." -Confucius
My opinion is the PUA’S are filth. They are basically Chads.
They use females for sex but in a most base way. They use people.
They exploit people.
These days females aren’t my favorite people but I hate people who only care about using people.
PUA’S are different than having a string of one night stands.
I don’t like being used and I don’t like people using people.
Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.
Anonymous54How can any one be part of the top 20 percent. There worse at math than me. I have known a lot of women. I have never gotten emotional support from them. I dont think they are capable of it.Why does every guy think he should get a “hot chick”? If your an average guy,go for average girls. Your buddys will give you more support anyways. A dog or cats. There allways there for you.
Anonymous42A PUA is nothing but a hustler, he spends valuable time and concentration for all the wrong purposes. He gets his fill of what exactly? Emptiness! He spends his life filling his chalice with nothing! He’s nothing but a yes-man to women, but all the yeses are actually lies and deceit. Remember, women are like children and very easily deceived, it’s the same as lying to children.
PUAs are selling you the false hope of getting laid (and charging for their content, seminars, “field training” etc) just as sure as any woman who wants something from you would be.
It’s a scam. Even if a certain set of behaviors works for an individual under a specifi set of circumstances, that doesn’t mean it can be replicated by other men.
They are no different from any other type of motivational speaker (Personal Power, Rich Dad Poor Dad, Four Hour Workweek, I could go on…) in that they have produced success for themselves by purporting to teach you how to be successful. It’s all hogwash.
Either you are good looking, charismatic, wealthy, respected or whatever it is that any given woman is attracted to or you are not. You can enhance your attributes to improve your chances, but there is no “Mystery Method” that will guarantee women will fall into your lap.
PUAs can, as a rule, be safely ignored… not only because their entire perspective is designed to scam you, but because it’s also focused on garnering approval (in the form of sexual access) from women and therefor has practically nothing to do with MGTOW.
Cherry pick their content for useful information about human nature if you simply can’t find it anywhere else, but leave the games and trickery (and thirst for women) to them.
Woman lies to Man to get what she wants= Traditional Relations~~~
Man lies to Woman to get what he wants= PUA
Man pays Prostitute, and no one lies to get what they want= Equitable business transaction“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.” - Robert E. Howard
Either you are good looking, charismatic, wealthy, respected or whatever it is that any given woman is attracted to or you are not. You can enhance your attributes to improve your chances, but there is no “Mystery Method” that will guarantee women will fall into your lap.
I’m with Doc here. Honestly , it seems to me that by going your own way and building YOU the c~~~s get attracted to you anyway(or better yet your success). PUA is a waste of time better spent on developing YOU
Hey hey i use some tactics from pua to f~~~ some women’s what wrong with it????what’s wrong with wanted to f~~~ some bitches every now and then?????you want to be a mgtow monk ok i respect your Decision,but don’t be trying to shame tactic many mgtow use to be able to play women’s
There are plenty of men out there (such as myself) who have tried everything and still failed to attract a woman. I pushed my mind to it’s limit … and for what? I became full of stress and emotional scars but I didn’t get laid.
Why are you wasting all your time trying to get laid? It is just my opinion, but if you truly have taken the red pill, and truly understand what is going on all around you, why do you still worry about such thing’s? I have not touched a filth stained pussy in over 2 years, and I am fine. Not going stir crazy or out of my mind…S~~~ I don’t even notice anymore…I jerk off when I feel the need, but even that has become more and more rare! I have more important s~~~ to do with my time, like bettering myself, making time for my dogs, s~~~ I would rather watch two flies on the wall f~~~, than WASTE one more minute of my life CONCERNING myself with pussy or anything to do with it…Just my two cents sir, but if you have truly gone your OWN way brother, then why does any of this s~~~ bother you at all???
Men are at a time when panning for gold in a urinal has a higher probability of success than finding a faithful and loving woman, it is time to go your own way.....
Hey hey i use some tactics from pua to f~~~ some women’s what wrong with it????what’s wrong with wanted to f~~~ some bitches every now and then?????you want to be a mgtow monk ok i respect your Decision,but don’t be trying to shame tactic many mgtow use to be able to play women’s
While there are some here who would argue that the mere act of having sex with women is a wast of male energy, I would not make that argument. But there is a lot of space between “getting laid now and then” and engaging in a protracted, systematic and deliberate process of manipulating and deceiving women in order to extract sexual access from them.
That’s the kind of s~~~ women do that has driven men to go their own ways. Turn the tables on them if you must in order to get the vagina you need, but recognize that if you’re using PUA methods, this is what you’re doing and don’t be surprised if other MGTOW call you a dishonest pussy begging simp for doing it.
if you have truly gone your OWN way brother, then why does any of this s~~~ bother you at all?
There are MGTOW who still f~~~. You don’t have to, but some do. Hopefully they do it knowing full well the risks they’re engaging with, but so far the Council of MGTOWs hasn’t made banishing pussy from ones life a requirement for membership.
Sex is fun. F~~~ing a woman you find really attractive can be a great experience and can be mutually beneficial for the both of you. It’s also exceptionally dangerous and should only be engaged in with full knowledge and awareness of the risks and potential consequences. The same is true for pretty much anything men do. Big whoop.
The men who are so bent out of shape that they call women evil, want to deny them any pleasure or value and spend inordinate amounts of effort attempting to avoid them seem, to me, to be far more obsessed with the feminine… maybe to a level equal, though opposite, of that of PUAs… than do the guys who just want to get laid now and then.
To the individual who originally made this complaint, if you’re having a hard time finding an amateur who will go to bed with you, go pay a professional. There are cute, friendly and skilled girls on Craig’s List that will turn your crank for far less effort, money and risk than you think.
Anonymous3PUAs will claim that any man can become a member of the top 20% if he gives himself “discipline”. I will admit that a man can raise his SMV (sexual market value) if he follows strict self-discipline but some guys can’t succeed even with discipline.
The PUAs are essentially ignoring the fact that people are different and some men have crippling neurological disabilities that make being alpha impossible.
There are some men in this world who desperately crave some sort of emotional support … and can never get it from women.
PUA’s and many others make some mistakes about psychology. The first mistake is to believe that “discipline” works in psychological issues. It doesn’t.
The way I ended up understanding this, psychological traits are born from life experiences and genetic inclinations. They can be equated to a “harmful belief”.As a silly example lets say we believe 1+1=3. This is something that will get us problems in life and we go to a seminar: we now have to remember and force yourselves to think in 2 instead of 3.
The trouble is that we are going against our nature and our belief, requiring a lot of energy and attention to keep the real belief in check. This will drain us, and anyone with some social skills (hint:women) will catch that it is forced.Now, if we understand that 1+1 is not 3 but 2 then the whole thing changes. Now you have a new reality and a new belief, requiring no effort at all.
I can give you an example of “harmful beliefs” that undermine our ability to do verbal conflicts. The following video is from a crazy martial arts expert, that could face several thugs in a fight, but would be pushed over by his girlfriends. Since he had a physiology degree, he finds out the origin and the “traits” that make one prone to be abused. This video was actually very important for me, and I suspect that it would be for you to.
The second mistake from PUA’s and others is to believe that they are alphas: they are not. “The masculine principle” explain this quite well. An alpha is someone that is a leader because others intrinsically recognize the leadership qualities.
A leader cannot use people. PUAs are faking alpha qualities, just long enough so that they get what they want.
With enough time, women find out that the PUA is not alpha. Discipline only works for some time, eventually it breaks up.The third mistake is to expect emotional support from women. This is in itself contradictory!
Women need support from men, they do not want to support a man. In fact the whole PUA game is to pretend that they dont care – they have no need for emotional support. But the fact that they chase women makes it clear that it is not true – they do care and they do need.A great psychological breakthrough for me was to get “self-validation”. I dont need sex with a woman to see myself as worthwhile, in fact it is a ridiculous notion, but we are biologically and socially conditioned to think like that. But let us analyse our feelings and ask the critical questions: is it true? Is it sane?
And last, you mention “crippling neurological disabilities”. Dont you mean “crippling psychological disabilities”? Because either the brain is malfunctioning (that would be neurological) or the brain is fine and the programming has bugs (that would be psychological).
Bugs can be corrected.
There are MGTOW who still f~~~. You don’t have to, but some do. Hopefully they do it knowing full well the risks they’re engaging with, but so far the Council of MGTOWs hasn’t made banishing pussy from ones life a requirement for membership.
This is my thoughts on this subject to the letter. I’m not against having sex and I’d even have sex every now and then if I had the chance to. I’d just never go out ACTIVELY chasing vagina like PUAs do.
I’d rather use hookers than try to attract women. At least with hookers, you’re guaranteed to get off unlike going on actual dates. Just pump and dump and you’re done.
As far as sex goes though, I’m finding it really hard to even get off to even porn these days knowing how women truly act. It’s a complete turn off altogether.
Men age like fine wine. Women age like milk. "One hundred women are not worth a single testicle." -Confucius
If PUAs want to make validation from women a core tenet of their life, i guess that’s their business. If you’re just looking to increase the # of women you f~~~, consider this:
~10: Hrs / week spent studying pickup, meeting women, trying to f~~~ them
52: # weeks in a year
~520: Total time spent practicing pickupIf you spent that 520 hrs/yr at a minimum wage job ($9/hr in NYC), you’d net $4,680.
The going rate for good looking early-20s escorts in NYC is ~$225 for 1-2 hours. So you can f~~~ $4,680 / $225 = ~21 escorts per year by working min wage @ 10 hrs / week.
If you do traditional dates, 1x every week for the year, at a cost of $50 per date (in NYC this # is laughably low!), that’s 52 * $50 = $2550 on dates. Holy s~~~! [One source calls the average NYC date $182 -> $9400 per year on dates!]
Let that sink in.
For the equivalent of the average cost of dating in NYC, you can hire an escort every 9 days.
By working minimum wage 10 hours per week, instead of practicing pickup, you can
1) Learn a new skill/build out a resume, and
2) Hire an escort every 2 weeks or so.Those numbers make PUA insanely time-inefficient & money-inefficient for me. YMMV.
REFERENCES:
http://magazine.foxnews.com/love/cost-liking-someone-how-expensive-average-dateTo hell with PUAs.
“They didn’t f~~~ you, they f~~~ed the facade that you fed them.”
-Barbarosa-Great thread and topic.
PUAs will typically say that “Any man can score with a hot woman.” This is blatantly false
Nope. It’s true — to a much bigger extent than you think — and it can be proven easily because you can also be a tall, good looking guy with everything going for you, and be a complete f~~~ing mangina DISASTER with women, and not get laid.
There are just as many handicaps for tall, attractive, wealthy guys.
“Any man can score with a hot woman” should probably be said another way: “If you think you need money or looks to score with hot women, you are gravely mistaken”.
BOTH types of men have their challenges.
EXAMPLE:
I was sitting with a female friend (like a sister) who was bitching about guys and being single. She’s a 7. I showed her a picture on my phone of a guy I know who I thought she might like. He is so worked out, his body looks photoshopped. She said “He looks like a real jerk/player” she hasn’t even met the dude or interacted with him. What a bitch right? But he is actually handicapped when it comes to women too, because they ALL AUTOMATICALLY think he gets a new piece of ass any day of the week.
He doesn’t. Not even close. He just doesn’t have the right attitude. And women have the wrong attitude about him. Being in such great shape actually works AGAINST him. They take one look and think “why is he single? there must be something else wrong with him”.
That’s how a woman thinks.
You could introduce her to Superman, and she would wonder “what’s wrong with him”.
The truth is… she took one look, and all she saw was COMPETITION WITH OTHER WOMEN. She was immediately put off by him because he “looks like a player” and she wrote him off (before meeting him!) because not even she believes he would be interested in her.
—
Men make a similar mistake by thinking way-attractive women ALL have men falling all over them. They don’t!!! It would shock you to know how many attractive women are handicapped for the same kind reason.
Models have some of the LOWEST self-esteem you have ever seen in women. A fat 5 actually thinks she’s hotter than a model who cries at night and thinks she’s fat. This is not bulls~~~.
There are some men in this world who desperately crave some sort of emotional support … and can never get it from women.
Would you believe it if someone told you that you can bang a new woman every weekend this year and never get ANY emotional support? There are married men and “boyfriends” who don’t get emotional support. Any man who thinks he will find solace in the bosom of a female is SORELY mistaken and just hasn’t had enough experience to know it’s bulls~~~.
You exist to PROVIDE IT. Not receive any.
If you expect any kind of equal partnership, equitable comforting, or some kind of comfort from women, you’re lying to yourself.
Being wrong about these things is actually GREAT NEWS because if you know it, you won’t feel like you’re missing out on anything. You’re not getting a raw deal.
The PUAs are essentially ignoring the fact that people are different and some men have crippling neurological disabilities that make being alpha impossible.
F~~~ that alpha beta zeta phi cappa omega s~~~.
Thinking women are “out of your league” is a crippling neurological disability in itself. You need to be able to look at a Victoria Secret Model and think you can smash — while also thinking a rejection from her is no big deal. Just having that attitude makes a huge difference.
A PUA already is already thinking he can hit that s~~~. Whether he can or not is not the point. He’s not eliminating himself before even interacting with her. He will even make a total FOOL out of himself with c~~~y bravado… and she will respond to it!
The difference? He doesn’t already believe he has any “crippling neurological disabilities”. He actually thinks he’s in the game.
Have you seen PUA Tyler Durden? I have – personally. And that dude is f~~~ing repellant. With his annoying chipmunk voice, he’s so far from “alpha” it’s not even hilarious. It’s embarrassing, but he sure peac~~~s like one.
the “80/20 rule”
Just because women WANT the top 10% (or 20%) of men to choose from doesn’t mean they GET them. And it sure doesn’t mean she knows how to hang on to one. A top 10% man with all those options isn’t even INTERESTED in 90% of women. So don’t even think about it.
The 80/20 rule is insignificant because 80% of women don’t even HIT ON, ask out, or approach the hottest 20% of guys. They just want the top 20% of guys to ask THEM out. It doesn’t work like that.
There is a very nice looking (black) female who works at my local coffee shop. We make small chat often and she flirts with me quite a bit and because I often order TWO coffees at a time, she assumed I had a wife (or a girlfriend) for months.
I don’t. She flatly REFUSED to believe it. Why? Because I’m tall, I don’t look like Shrek, and when she asks if I want my Americano iced or hot, I answer confidently “HOTT. LIKE ME”.
She laughed HARD.
I don’t have women breaking my door down, but women like her THINK I do, just because I don’t act like any of them are out of my league.
“Game”
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.It is easier, even if it demands more character, to get your life to work as a single man, than it is to try to keep obsessing on somehow adding a woman will make your life complete, and selling your soul to get “some woman” that will meet the said standards of strangers that have nothing to do with your own personal life. PUAs sell their souls to get a woman that is “good enough” for them.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
Let that sink in.
For the equivalent of the average cost of dating in NYC, you can hire an escort every 9 days.
By working minimum wage 10 hours per week, instead of practicing pickup, you can
1) Learn a new skill/build out a resume, and
2) Hire an escort every 2 weeks or so.Thanks for proving what I already knew Matt…waste of time , build a better you and f~~~ what they want.
Keymaster
Great words as always bro
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