Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Who has read "Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida?
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narwhal 4 years, 8 months ago.
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I believe that women may change when they see a man, or groups of men starting to abandon them. But your theory is that women see this and reliably change for the better…becoming more respectful and more civil. This may actually be true for some women, but I can assure you that for another group of women, seeing men withdraw from them results in even more of the same hostility, disrespect and elevated demands, not less. I would encourage you to stick around this website for a while, and you will very likely soon see an example of exactly that. There is on the front page of this site a notice that it is a men-only site. It is very clear, and unmistakable in its message. Yet on a regular basis, we get women misrepresenting themselves to gain access here, logging on with a man’s username and posting on his account, logging on as a female and asking politely to be given access, logging on as a female and demanding access, having a man ask on their behalf for access… All of this in just the last 3 or 4 months. If your theory were true, they could have and would have just respected that sign and went quietly on their way. Perhaps a group of some number of them do, but we can have no way of knowing the relative sizes of these two groups. On a more widespread example, you see articles all the time written by women about ‘where have all the good men gone?’. The definition of ‘good’ is never actually explained. But most men know that when a woman refers to a ‘good man’, what she means is a man who will put her interests above his own. Now an article like this recognizes and acknowledges that there are no ‘good men’ left. No secret there. And all makes no secret that there is a demand for these ‘good men’. No secret there either. What these articles never say is, “The crappy behavior that women engaged in that ended the inspiration for any man to make the effort to live up to the definition of ‘good man’… and what women should do to straighten their crappy behavior out…”. I don’t know the ratio of the sizes of the two groups. But I have a pretty good idea of the ratio of the two types of articles I just described. I’ll take that as an indicator that the proportions are not such that it’s worth the time and effort to try to find one who has acknowledged that her behavior should be modified by her to be more favorable to me. More likely, I’ll just succeed in finding a large group of women who’ve read articles titled “I don’t need a man”, and continue their crappy behavior accordingly….
What I’m getting is that neither of us are fundamentally “wrong” per se, but that since the chances of meeting this ideal woman that I speak of are rare, time well-spent would be not bothering in the first place. I get where you are coming from, man. I appreciate your time and perspective. Also, if it sounds like I’m making judgments about MGTOW, that isn’t my intention. I just had some parts that weren’t clear to me because of things I learned prior to finding this site. Glad you guys could help me out with that.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
So your belief is that women do not consider attraction at all? Do they take risk into account? Because if she has a good relationship with a man based on the things I’ve said before, is she really prepared to risk all of that for just a chance to be with someone who might be more rich?
Again Clint….we have no “beliefs” regarding women other than WE ARE DONE with their bulls~~~ and we are now going our own way. I’m sure many a MGTOW spent many years of their life trying this , that and the other thing trying to maintain whatever relations~~~ they found themselves in before MGTOW…and the conclusion is/was NOTHING works.
You are still a little young perhaps to have experienced the true nature of women…I don’t know, when i was your age women didn’t seem to be as nuts as they were when they got older…trust me when i tell you women will leave/ruin their current relationship for a whole host of reasons, all of which make no sense whatsoever, and regardless of how you TREAT them…the results are always the same.
you pass the test for now
Morning Clint,
I can pretty much narrow everything you’ve written to these five words.
A proper partnership between equals is based on mutual respect. What you’ve described here is commonly called a s~~~ test, which to my mind at least shows a distinct lack of respect on the part of the tester (woman) towards the subject (man)
Rather than treat the symptoms by learning to play such games I for one prefer to simply deal with the problem by removing women that try to play them on me from my life, that way I can eat ice cream or not as I choose, without the need to defend that choice to anyone but myself.
Clint,
what I hope most right now is that: you stay unmarried and childless for 10 more years until you are 32, you have a good education and good job with good paycheck and nice place to live at that time, and that you and we are still trading posts on this site at that time. Because if we are, you are going to understand things about women that probably no one here can adequately explain to you right now, and that no book can adequately illustrate for you, but that will be made abundantly obvious to you by many of those same women you are now buying books trying to understand. I think having the posts you will write then, alongside the posts you write now, will be educational for you, and very nostalgic and endearing for us. 🙂Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you
Clint, what I hope most right now is that: you stay unmarried and childless for 10 more years until you are 32, you have a good education and good job with good paycheck and nice place to live at that time, and that you and we are still trading posts on this site at that time. Because if we are, you are going to understand things about women that probably no one here can adequately explain to you right now, and that no book can adequately illustrate for you, but that will be made abundantly obvious to you by many of those same women you are now buying books trying to understand. I think having the posts you will write then, alongside the posts you write now, will be educational for you, and very nostalgic and endearing for us.
Yes I for sure am planning on staying unmarried and not having kids. I say often that I don’t want to have kids, actually. I am always trying to become a better person and learn as much as I can, so I hope to be successful in my career and in my health as well. I do like what you guys represent and think you are all smart and independent and I want to be like that, too. I love to look back on things I used to think I understand and see how naive I was at the time, and I hope that if this is the correct path(which I think it potentially is, otherwise I wouldn’t be here.) I will have that opportunity. Thanks again for everything guys! I may not continue to post much unless I have other things I need cleared up, but I will probably be reading things often.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
you pass the test for now
Morning Clint, I can pretty much narrow everything you’ve written to these five words. A proper partnership between equals is based on mutual respect. What you’ve described here is commonly called a s~~~ test, which to my mind at least shows a distinct lack of respect on the part of the tester (woman) towards the subject (man) Rather than treat the symptoms by learning to play such games I for one prefer to simply deal with the problem by removing women that try to play them on me from my life, that way I can eat ice cream or not as I choose, without the need to defend that choice to anyone but myself.
Right, I agree that if she continues to act out it isn’t worth it and kick her out you shall. What I was wondering is if there is a woman who understands what you are about, she would stop doing the childish behavior because she knows she will be kicked to the curb for it. I think that was cleared up by BrainPilot because he said the ratio of women who aren’t childish to the women who are is so skewed against us that it isn’t worth our time. Thanks for your time, I think this is starting to come together for me a bit.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
Right, I agree that if she continues to act out it isn’t worth it and kick her out you shall. What I was wondering is if there is a woman who understands what you are about, she would stop doing the childish behavior because she knows she will be kicked to the curb for it. I think that was cleared up by BrainPilot because he said the ratio of women who aren’t childish to the women who are is so skewed against us that it isn’t worth our time. Thanks for your time, I think this is starting to come together for me a bit.
That is the first conclusion you should come to is the cost-benefit analysis. The time, money, and energy spent on finding and keeping a decent woman versus the possible pay-off. The second truth you need to realize is that even if you find a decent woman, she has to option and ability to physically, mentally, emotionally, and financially ruin you at her whim because of a gynocentric establishment. Until men actually have power in this system, why risk it? Seriously. It is your life we are talking about. You will be the one going to jail, getting raped, financially ruined, and contemplating suicide, not cupcake.
If you treat women s~~~ty & do it right, you will have a high PUA score. It really does work.
If you treat all people s~~~ty & do it right, you will rise to the top levels of the hierarchy pyramid. Think Machiavelli.
As for me, I refuse to treat anyone s~~~ty on purpose. It happens by error all too often, to my dismay. I am more than happy to live with the obvious consequences of refusing to play the game.
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
I have a hard copy of this book. I couldn’t finish it. It’s been several years on my shelf, I vaguely remember it starting to have some good points and then hit a big brick wall of shameful White Knightery, some new-age bulls~~~ about “worshipping the divine femininity” or something along those lines.
I really like to read, and it usually takes some extra special bulls~~~ to make me put a book down and not pick it back up.
It should me rule 1 here that newbies should read the faq and then spend a week going through the archive.
At least 50% of basic mgtow answers can be found there. KM and the others put it up for that reason.
Then any doubts after that can be answered here.
Im not trying to be a s~~~ but you guys put a lot of time in here. It should be used for more than just basic stuff thats found within easy reach.
Having said that:
Women will s~~~ test you from day 1 right up to your death bed…… if shes still around. She will pass the s~~~ test batton to your next woman ….. and so on.
However, mgtow are not on that race track. We are in the other field play ball and pointing the wknights and manginas toward the track.
For example, when a woman tells a mangina to have some ice cream, but he is big into fitness and doesn’t really want it. The mangina will say “okay, it won’t hurt,” and this is where he goes wrong because she subconsciously resents him because she really asked him just to “feel his masculine essence”. Then what happens is he starts to get out of shape from eating ice cream all the time, so she dumps him because of it, and the mangina wonders where he went wrong.
Now what he suggests is that you stick with what you do(Going His Own Way) without her consideration. So she offers ice cream and you say “no.” Then she insists and you tell her “I’m am not going to eat ice cream because I care about what I look like.” Secretly she enjoys feeling your masculine essence and you pass the test for now. She should be more attracted to you than before, and the relationship continues on successfully.
(Welcome to the forums by the way!, Clint. Classic avatar.)
Lets use another nearly identical example. You set the alarm for 7AM because you want to go to the gym. She says “AW why? You don’t have to go to the gym , babe. Stay in bed , do nothing and gaze into my eyes all morning – as if you have nothing better to do”. This is classic. I once had a girlfriend who’s Mom who used to offer me cookies all the time. “Have another piece of pie”. And if I ate one, she would try to make me eat 10 more. She would get p~~~ed off if I said no…. and my girlfriend would be p~~~ed off because I would go to the gym anyway.
Why? because they want to make you fat and eliminate other competition. It’s not even about you, or the gym, or the cookie, it’s about HER underneath it all. “If he goes to the gym and stays fit, I will have to as well, compete with other women, and work harder to keep him around”. I s~~~ you not, that’s how women think.
If you did what she wanted, she would eventually resent the s~~~ out of you, because you allowed yourself to get flabby and out of shape – even though she ASKED YOU TO DO IT. This is why guys end up scratching their heads wondering why she lost interest and left – because technically, he thought he was doing things to “make her happy”.
Everyone here knows exactly what you’re talking about. We understand it perfectly.
But you have to look deeper than that.
You used the word “successful”. Meaning, if you don’t fall for the s~~~ test – and know exactly what they are up to – the relationship that would have failed, would now seem like it “worked”. But it doesn’t. In this kind of an example, you have to always be SMARTER than she is. You are constantly required to operate on a higher plane than she. You need to constantly be aware, even when she isn’t. You adjust your responses accordingly, and alter your thought process.
So even when you’re in a “successful relationship”…. you are always going to be ALONE.
She’s not a peer. She’s not your partner. She is actually competing with you.She is actually motivated to turn to you into the type of man that she (and other women) WILL NOT LIKE and WILL NOT be attracted to.
MGTOW understand all of this and realize this kind of dynamic is the wrong basis for a “relationship”.
This is why “PUA” and “game” to keep a woman around is not actually a good solution.Careful you don’t measure the “success” of a relationship based on it not failing. That’s not a measure of success. Just because something didn’t fail, doesn’t mean it “worked”. Just because you didn’t crash your car on the way to Vegas, doesn’t mean you had a good time.
A fair, fun, successful and enjoyable relationships is when she will call you back into bed, tell you you don’t need not go to the gym, and love you MORE for the decision. Women just don’t operate like that.
When you realize she will resent you for going to the gym….
And she will resent you for NOT going to the gym…..
It’s a relationship simply not worth having.If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.So, Keymaster, to summarize, women do not know how to have a relationship with a man. They want to dominate him. And when they do they lose interest. Then she will feel trapped with you and resent you for taking away her liberty to dump your ass. To prove they are “independent” and not liking you anymore anyway, they dump your ass and go all “Cougar” on men.
That’s why we have a rapidly rising single mother rate of 40% headed to 70% in an exponential way.
#icethemout; Remember Thomas Ball. He died for your children.
Anonymous11BrainPilot is spot on about the ratios of females not being worth our effort, and it gets worse as you get older. You’re young so don’t ever waste your time on worthless women which are the vast majority. There are a select few who qualify as true NAWALTS/Unicorns. We lose many of those over the years who end up in relationships with the “Bad Boys” and get destroyed. The other chunk never gets released back into the dating pool for obvious reasons.
At your age, the chances of finding one of these is better than mine, but the path is rife with serious danger to you. Women also operate at a level we cannot comprehend when it comes to deceit so always keep that in mind. I’ve learned to watch what they actually do and never fully believe anything they say.
Forget about ever understanding women as it’s impossible. For me, the best model to understanding women is to pretend I’m a drug dealer with a very desirable drug called Vagina. I have vast hordes of addicts at each other’s throats trying to get to what I have. The whole world rotates around me as I am a very special princess.
If you treat women s~~~ty & do it right, you will have a high PUA score. It really does work.
I will concur. Even these guys still have to waste time dealing with their bulls~~~ though. They are ruthlessly cold, and women flock to them. Some of them end up getting ground up by the legal system too. I know a few who have paid a heavy price for vagina addiction.
Yes I for sure am planning on staying unmarried and not having kids
As long as you stick to this you’ll be mostly okay. Not to say you won’t get tricked by oops I’m pregnant, or have to put up with a lot of bulls~~~, but if you get to your 30s going this route, life experience will probably fit many of the pieces together for you.
What I was wondering is if there is a woman who understands what you are about, she would stop doing the childish behavior because she knows she will be kicked to the curb for it.
I’m non standard here in my belief that raising women to be spoiled children is the biggest problem with them. A teacher in high school once said when I was about 16, “you’re already the person you’ll basically be for the rest of your life”. That kind of freaked me out but it’s true. Aside from extreme trauma (which every day life will never provide), people are stuck the way they are, and a spoiled child isn’t going to magically become unspoiled (note the nature of the term “spoiled”). Does a spoiled child believe they’re doing anything wrong? Even if they do they don’t care. Spoiled children (in theory) could be disciplined by family, grown women are under no such threat and ever coddled. Why would a women change anyway? To get a man? Don’t kid yourself there, she can act like a spoiled princess treating men like s~~~ and men will line up for the privilege of being her doormat. And women are perfectly capable of faking whatever you want them to be to entrap you in a relationship, so be careful about that. Until society itself says “enough with the bulls~~~”, every next generation of women is going to be yet another crop of spoiled princesses. We aren’t anywhere near that point, and I doubt I’ll see it in my lifetime – and I’ve probably got another 50 years to go.
Price is what you pay, value is what you get. -- Ben Graham
I tend to think that women will interpret your actions (saying no to ice cream, going to the gym, etc) in multiple contrasting ways at the same time. You obviously don’t care enough about her to skip the gym and spend time with her, and you obviously don’t care enough to go to the gym to look good for her, and you obviously are looking to upgrade to someone better looking, and you obviously can’t be truthful with her because telling her NO obviously means something else entirely. Why can’t you understand that?
Ok. Then do it.
So, Keymaster, to summarize, women do not know how to have a relationship with a man. They want to dominate him. And when they do they lose interest. Then she will feel trapped with you and resent you for taking away her liberty to dump your ass.
@HRPufNStuff
Always remember that Americanized women have all been raised and badly programmed in the toxic, corrosive, negative world of feminism. Through no fault of their own… .they just can’t help but look at the world (and you) like a feminist and think like one. She will look for the NEGATIVE in every single one of your qualities – including the positive – and spin it into a negative. She will bring out the worst in you – on PURPOSE.
Examples:
If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat-race, you’re a male chauvinist.
If you don’t you’re sexist.If you stay home and do the housework, you’re a pansy.
If she stays home and do the housework, you’re oppressive.If you work too hard there is never any time for her.
If you don’t work enough, you’re a good-for-nothing bum.If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, its called “exploitation”.
If YOU have a boring repetitive job with low pay…..
you should get off your lazy ass and find something better.If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism.
If she gets a job ahead of you, it’s equal opportunity.If you mention how nice she looks, it’s sexual harassment.
If you keep quiet, it’s male indifference.If you cry, you’re a wimp.
If you don’t, you’re an insensitive bastard.If you make a decision without consulting her, you’re a chauvinist.
If she makes a decision without consulting you, she’s a liberated woman.If you ask her to do something she doesn’t enjoy, that’s domination.
If she asks you, it’s a favor.If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, you’re pervert.
If you don’t, you’re gay.If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, you’re sexist.
If you don’t, you’re unromantic.If you try to keep yourself in shape, you’re vain.
If you don’t, you’re a slob.If you buy her flowers, you’re after something.
If you don’t, you’re not thoughtful.If you’re proud of your achievements, you’re full of yourself.
If you’re not, you’re not ambitious.If she has a headache, she’s tired.
If you have a headache, you don’t love her anymore.If you want it Too often, you’re oversexed.
If you don’t, there must be someone else.THE BOTTOM LINE…. EVERY one of your qualities will be spun into a negative. This can easily be studied and understood by countless psychologists and anyone with common sense. You simply can’t have a relationship with this kind of creature. She brings out worst in you – ON PURPOSE. Eventually, the guy will think: “well if she’s going to criticize me, see a negative in EVERYTHING and treat me like an asshole… I may as well just go ahead and BE an asshole”.
This is more valuable to her than finding or meeting a “good man”. It satisfies her core belief that “all men are jerks”. It permits her to scurry off to her feminist asshole friends and say “AHA! I told you! Men really are as bad we’ve said”!
Now… she is “happy”. Because NOW, he has finally given her someting REAL to complain about it.
He has now become the asshole SHE cultivated.If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.@scubasteve. Nice to see you again.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.I’m glad I asked this question, this is making a lot more sense to me at this point. Also, thanks for the warm welcome, KeyMaster–I love reading your posts on here.
You guys are all very helpful.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you into something else is the greatest accomplishment." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
So, Keymaster, to summarize, women do not know how to have a relationship with a man. They want to dominate him. And when they do they lose interest. Then she will feel trapped with you and resent you for taking away her liberty to dump your ass.
@HRPufNStuff Always remember that Americanized women have all been raised and badly programmed in the toxic, corrosive, negative world of feminism. Through no fault of their own… .they just can’t help but look at the world (and you) like a feminist and think like one. She will look for the NEGATIVE in every single one of your qualities – including the positive – and spin it into a negative. She will bring out the worst in you – on PURPOSE. Examples: If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat-race, you’re a male chauvinist. If you don’t you’re sexist. If you stay home and do the housework, you’re a pansy. If she stays home and do the housework, you’re oppressive. If you work too hard there is never any time for her. If you don’t work enough, you’re a good-for-nothing bum. If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, its called “exploitation”. If YOU have a boring repetitive job with low pay….. you should get off your lazy ass and find something better. If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism. If she gets a job ahead of you, it’s equal opportunity. If you mention how nice she looks, it’s sexual harassment. If you keep quiet, it’s male indifference. If you cry, you’re a wimp. If you don’t, you’re an insensitive bastard. If you make a decision without consulting her, you’re a chauvinist. If she makes a decision without consulting you, she’s a liberated woman. If you ask her to do something she doesn’t enjoy, that’s domination. If she asks you, it’s a favor. If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, you’re pervert. If you don’t, you’re gay. If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, you’re sexist. If you don’t, you’re unromantic. If you try to keep yourself in shape, you’re vain. If you don’t, you’re a slob. If you buy her flowers, you’re after something. If you don’t, you’re not thoughtful. If you’re proud of your achievements, you’re full of yourself. If you’re not, you’re not ambitious. If she has a headache, she’s tired. If you have a headache, you don’t love her anymore. If you want it Too often, you’re oversexed. If you don’t, there must be someone else. THE BOTTOM LINE…. EVERY one of your qualities will be spun into a negative. This can easily be studied and understood by countless psychologists and anyone with common sense. You simply can’t have a relationship with this kind of creature. She brings out worst in you – ON PURPOSE. Eventually, the guy will think: “well if she’s going to criticize me, see a negative in EVERYTHING and treat me like an asshole… I may as well just go ahead and BE an asshole”. This is more valuable to her than finding or meeting a “good man”. It satisfies her core belief that “all men are jerks”. It permits her to scurry off to her feminist asshole friends and say “AHA! I told you! Men really are as bad we’ve said”! Now… she is “happy”. Because NOW, he has finally given her someting REAL to complain about it. He has now become the asshole SHE cultivated.
brilliant post as always KeyMaster
Always remember that Americanized women have all been raised and badly programmed in the toxic, corrosive, negative world of feminism. Through no fault of their own… .they just can’t help but look at the world (and you) like a feminist and think like one. She will look for the NEGATIVE in every single one of your qualities – including the positive – and spin it into a negative. She will bring out the worst in you – on PURPOSE.
Examples:
If you put a woman on a pedestal and try to protect her from the rat-race, you’re a male chauvinist.
If you don’t you’re sexist.If you stay home and do the housework, you’re a pansy.
If she stays home and do the housework, you’re oppressive.If you work too hard there is never any time for her.
If you don’t work enough, you’re a good-for-nothing bum.If she has a boring repetitive job with low pay, its called “exploitation”.
If YOU have a boring repetitive job with low pay…..
you should get off your lazy ass and find something better.If you get a promotion ahead of her, that is favoritism.
If she gets a job ahead of you, it’s equal opportunity.If you mention how nice she looks, it’s sexual harassment.
If you keep quiet, it’s male indifference.If you cry, you’re a wimp.
If you don’t, you’re an insensitive bastard.If you make a decision without consulting her, you’re a chauvinist.
If she makes a decision without consulting you, she’s a liberated woman.If you ask her to do something she doesn’t enjoy, that’s domination.
If she asks you, it’s a favor.If you appreciate the female form and frilly underwear, you’re pervert.
If you don’t, you’re gay.If you like a woman to shave her legs and keep in shape, you’re sexist.
If you don’t, you’re unromantic.If you try to keep yourself in shape, you’re vain.
If you don’t, you’re a slob.If you buy her flowers, you’re after something.
If you don’t, you’re not thoughtful.If you’re proud of your achievements, you’re full of yourself.
If you’re not, you’re not ambitious.If she has a headache, she’s tired.
If you have a headache, you don’t love her anymore.If you want it Too often, you’re oversexed.
If you don’t, there must be someone else.THE BOTTOM LINE…. EVERY one of your qualities will be spun into a negative. This can easily be studied and understood by countless psychologists and anyone with common sense. You simply can’t have a relationship with this kind of creature. She brings out worst in you – ON PURPOSE. Eventually, the guy will think: “well if she’s going to criticize me, see a negative in EVERYTHING and treat me like an asshole… I may as well just go ahead and BE an asshole”.
This is more valuable to her than finding or meeting a “good man”. It satisfies her core belief that “all men are jerks”. It permits her to scurry off to her feminist asshole friends and say “AHA! I told you! Men really are as bad we’ve said”!
Now… she is “happy”. Because NOW, he has finally given her someting REAL to complain about it.
He has now become the asshole SHE cultivated.Sir KM that was a brilliant and meticulous post.
Clint
As for figuring women out or their words, thats impossible. There is no correct answer with women, this is not mathematics. There are no guarantees ever!. Apply diiferent scenarios and they’ll probably react diiferently to each one depending on their emotions or latest psyche eval.
As for achieving a middle ground between dating and MGTOW, women will manage to use their vag as leverage eventually one way or the other and as soon as you give an inch they’ll take a mile until you’re confined to a man cave. A quick risk vs reward analysis women lose everytime.
"The wounds of honor are self inflicted"
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