what do strip clubs, lap dances really saying to men?

[BDParticipant 1146]

treelville..miami wrote:

Strippers are prostitutes, all of them. They all have their prices, the only thing is you have to take them private which costs extra then negotiate the sex. They’re all prostitution rings, and never f~~~ a stripper bitch more than once the last thing you want is that bitch lingering.

I agree Vader, the force is strong! The lingering is how they can ruin your life. Pump and dump, they are much better manipulators than average women, so watch out! I’ve dated these crazies, had friends pay strippers for sex, threesomes  etc etc, it is all possible.

Sex economics, just my take;  I think strip clubs, prostitutes, lap dances, and porn are all great in regards to sex economics. Can you imagine how much the average women would try to extort from a man for sex if he didn’t have any other options?

I say put up whore houses everywhere, maximum supply will drive down the prices.

 

Because in order to be able to think, you have to risk being offensive.

[JollyMisanthropeParticipant 3356]

Clueless men are exploited at strip clubs, but the feminists will still try to convince people that the strippers are the real victims being exploited. Attractive women know the game and how to hustle, anybody with half a brain knows they are not victims by any stretch of the imagination.

The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.

[Anonymous 12]

What is being exploited in men is our group dynamics. Men like to bond with shared experiences, strippers are a shared experience. Often times in a strip club you will see some men playing pool with a stripper draped around them, the stripper is being paid to just be there, often times still in bra and panties. The men don’t realize they are being played, they just think it is fun to have her there.

Money for nothing for her.

[VictorParticipant 124]

narwhal wrote:

Victor, in your first post, you stated that you thought sex should be reserved for a loving relationship. Ok, I could except that ideal, however, you’d really need to define what a loving relationship is. These days, I don’t know what a loving relationship is, so I’d love to hear your definition.

A relationship in which two people love each other romantically.

narwhal wrote:

I will say from my experience, sex is often better if it’s casual then with someone you’re married to or dating for a long time. With my ex, there were some great periods of sex, but there was also those periods where it was highly obligatory, and rather boring. There was the nights she wanted to be the good wife, so just a blowjob. How romantic. Even when she was horny, there was no romance or anything like that. I jumped on those opportunities because who knows when that’s going to happen again.

Depends on the quality of the marriage.  I would say that it’s a two-way process and your account of things would suggest that you were both doing something wrong in that department.  I hold no brief for women here, but just because you might go out and work, etc., that does not entitle you to certain things from your wife.  Maybe there was a lack of affection?  I don’t speak from experience, of course, but experience is not always the best teacher.

Experience can sometimes mean doing the same wrong thing over and over again, but you can delude yourself that you know what you’re doing and you’re some kind of authority on the subject because, after all, you’re…’experienced’.  For instance, if you have had lots of sexual partners, including casual sex, that might suggest you are not ‘experienced’ in anything meaningful to do with forming relationships and any advice you offer should be received cautiously.  Practice and experience aren’t the same thing.  To my mind, men who sleep around sound like people who spend their entire lives practising for something, but never get anywhere and never really grow up.

Plus, people can develop myopia about a situation and not realise what they are doing wrong.  If I was married, then I would make a point of touching my wife and saying nice things to her whenever I see her, among other things.  I’d want her to know I loved her, cared, and felt affection towards her, no matter what.  In that environment, I’d expect there to be some romantic feeling from her side.

narwhal wrote:

Casual sex doesn’t happen unless both people want it. There’s no obligation, it’s just raw emotion. It’s not asexual at all, because people get a lot of satisfaction when their partner has an orgasm (most people I think). You don’t get that with masturbation alone.

Then again, ‘casual sex’ can mean all kinds of things.  Much depends on the context of the act.  Other people on this thread have related how it can leave you regretful, dissatisfied and emotionally-damaged.  This may be because sex is not meant to be just a time-and-motion study in which a man thrusts into a strange woman.  It’s supposed to be the consummation of love, and the ‘love’ (i.e. hormonal) part serves an evolutionary purpose in committing the man to the protection of the female and any resultant child.  Just ‘f~~~ing’ people (which is what I understand ‘casual sex’ to be) to be isn’t really sex at all, and although it may involve benefits, is probably not healthy in the long run.

narwhal wrote:

Besides that, in a relationship, I need her to be someone I could introduce to mama, who I’d trust to be around my kids. For sex alone, the requirements are much different

I differ from you here.  Don’t take this the wrong way – I might be over-analysing, and if so, just discard what follows – but you actually come across as having some sub-conscious fear or revulsion about sex.  The fact that you have had plenty of it doesn’t negate the possibility.  It sounds like you think sex is dirty.  I actually take a contrary view, that real sex isn’t a dirty or guilty thing and should be talked about openly, but it should normally be preceded by a real relationship.

 

narwhal wrote:

I honestly, from my experience, if you hold out on sex until you feel like you can tell her you love her, she’s going to freak out about it. Don’t you find me attractive enough? What’s wrong with me? She’ll remember it too, how bad you treated her because you respected her and didn’t want to f~~~ her. It really should be simple. If she’s disease free, she wants it, and you want it, then do it.

That’s not exactly what I’m getting at.  My problem is shyness and lack of confidence, which in my case has become pathological.  Without these problems, my entire life experience would have been different – maybe better, maybe a lot worse, who knows.  I just wish I had been introduced to MGTOW-type knowledge at an early stage.  This would have reassured me that my inner thoughts about women were ‘normal’ and supported by a coherent perspective that already existed among other men – which in turn would have made me much more confident and allayed a lot of the fears and insecurities I had.  As it was, I laboured through life with an implicitly MGTOW-type consciousness but thinking there was something wrong with me.  There wasn’t.

narwhal wrote:

As for strippers, I don’t think they are exploited at all. They have all the control. They get loads of attention of men. They don’t do lap dances for guys they don’t want to dance for. They either are indifferent or enjoy it themselves. And they get paid well.

I don’t accept it’s as simple as that.  This sort of sounds like the typical market libertarian perspective – voluntary contracts, no use of force, etc. – which is popular among Americans.  Reality is a bit more complicated that this.

[narwhalParticipant]

Victor, you’ve said a lot and I don’t know that I’ll be able to respond to all of it.

You defined a loving relationship as “A relationship in which two people love each other romantically.”.  That’s rather circular.  If I’m unsure of what a loving relationship is, I don’t know what loving romantically is either.  Nevermind.

As far as seek being poor in my marriage due to any failing on my part, I’ve spent more then enough contemplating that.  Not the sex really, but everything in general.  There are way too many reasons to get into right now, and sure, I could have done a lot different that could have had better results.  Regardless,  sex does eventually come down to physical needs/desires.  There will be times when you aren’t in the mood and your partner is.  You can’t stay in that puppy dog love stage forever, regardless of what movies may tell us.

As far as experienced goes, it sounds like you’re trying to negate my experience (which isn’t all that much honestly) and favor of your lack of experience.  Somehow my expereince is not that meaningful.  Whatever, do whatever you want to do.    I will say that I used to feel like sex needed to be in a loving relationship myself.  I don’t feel that way anymore.

A subconscious fear of sex?  I’m not following how you made that conclusion.  That last woman I dated, I didnt want her to meet my kids because she was crazy.  She was actually on medication for it.  She was fun to hang out with.  She was cute, had big t~~~, and couldn’t keep her hand out of my pants.   I appreciated her for those things, not for everything she was.  She was rather unreliable and very annoying to watch sports with.  I don’t feel the need to share all that with my mom and kids.  It’s not something my mom even wants to know about.  My kids, maybe I’ll tell them stories when they’re older.

Sex, from my experience is not about romance and candlelight and all that.  It can be sometimes, but it is often not.  It’s not always better when you have romance or whatever involved.  Sometimes it’s worse.   You’re experience may differ, whatever.  I don’t think it discounts mine or anyone elses experience, or whatever you’ve read in books.

As far as women being coerced into being a stripper, prostitute, or whatever.  I understand that it’s not always like that.  Even where it’s 100% legal, some women don’t really want to do it.  However, a lot of people don’t like there job and are forced into because money matters.  I don’t really see stripping as that different from any other job.

 

Ok. Then do it.

[VictorParticipant 124]

narwhal wrote:

Victor, you’ve said a lot and I don’t know that I’ll be able to respond to all of it. You defined a loving relationship as “A relationship in which two people love each other romantically.”. That’s rather circular. If I’m unsure of what a loving relationship is, I don’t know what loving romantically is either.  Nevermind. 

A loving relationship is, ipso facto, a relationship in which two people love each other.  You should be able to recognise what the ‘love’ feelings are, though they’re difficult to describe and almost impossible to define.  If you can’t, then that would explain why you think the definition given is circular.

narwhal wrote:

As far as women being coerced into being a stripper, prostitute, or whatever. I understand that it’s not always like that. Even where it’s 100% legal, some women don’t really want to do it. However, a lot of people don’t like there job and are forced into because money matters. I don’t really see stripping as that different from any other job.

Ah, Stefan Molyneux speaks.  Maybe the problem is with the whole social construction of sex/gender relations?  If men don’t respect women then why should women respect men?  And if women don’t respect men, then why should men respect women?  And round and round we go in a pointless symbiosis of blame.  How might these relationships differ in a society not based on money, indeed a society without money at all?  I suspect probably there would be a return to more traditional sex and gender roles and identities and women would value men for what we are built for and vice versa rather than these artificial bits of paper and plastic used for monetary exchange.

[Biggvs_DickvsParticipant 3725]

See them for what they are.  A place you can go to and for less than you can see a movie see beautiful naked women up close, even get to hold them on your lap. Even though I know well that it is a pay-for-play situation, I still get a big confidence boost from holding them in my arms when they’re sitting on my lap. Between that and the scent that rubs off, I have a much higher success rate dating when I go to a strip club first.

No matter what they *say*, there are few things more attractive to a woman than you being desired/sexed by other women.

"Data, I would be delighted to offer any advice I can on understanding women. When I have some, I'll let you know." --Captain Picard,

[Author]

Posts