Guaranteed Basic Income – Welfare by Another Name

[Y_Participant 4591]

Guaranteed Basic Income – Welfare by Another Name [1]
James G Rickards
The Daily Reckoning
May 2, 2018

James G. Rickards is the editor of Strategic Intelligence. He is an American lawyer, economist, and investment banker with 35 years in capital markets and on Wall Street. He was the principal negotiator of the rescue of Long-Term Capital Management L.P. (LTCM) by the U.S Federal Reserve in 1998. His clients include institutional investors and government directorates. He is advisor on capital markets to the U.S. intelligence community, and at the Office of the Secretary of Defense in the Pentagon.

One of the first things I learned as a registered Washington lobbyist, (yes, I admit it, I was a lobbyist in the 1990s), is “you can’t beat something with nothing.”

That’s a Washington insider’s way of saying that if you don’t like an opponent’s policies, it’s not enough to moan and complain about them and throw insults. You have to come up with a policy of your own that appeals to voters and can be offered to the public as an alternative.

This has been a problem for Democrats lately.

They can’t stand Donald Trump and insult him all day long, but they won’t prevail in major elections scheduled in 2018 and 2020 unless they offer the voters something other than constant ridicule of Trump.

A few smart Democrats, including Bernie Sanders and Cory Booker, have figured this out. Their alternative to Trump’s policies is a government guaranteed job for every American who wants one. The jobs will be low or negative productivity government jobs requiring few or no skills and offering no advancement.

This proposal may sound odd coming at a time when the official unemployment rate is 3.9%, the lowest in almost twenty years. Unemployment is 3.7% for adult white men and 3.5% for adult white women, while African-American unemployment is approaching historic lows.

Why roll out a jobs program now?

The answer is that the official unemployment statistics are highly misleading. They do not count approximately 10 million able-bodied working age adults who have simply given up on work.

Adjusted for those “missing workers,” the real unemployment rate is about 10%, a depression level figure.

Interest in the guaranteed jobs program is high. Critics say the program will destroy incentives and undermine the traditional work ethic. Supporters say it will help to raise wages because private employees will have to match the wages being offered by the program itself in order to compete with the government jobs.

In that sense, this is really a backdoor way to raise the Federal minimum wage and increase benefits. Whichever side you’re on, get used to hearing about this debate in the years ahead.

Who knows, maybe Trump will end up supporting it. Trump is not a traditional conservative, but he is a shrewd politician who may just steal his opponent’s best idea. You can’t beat something with nothing.

There is also a parallel idea beginning to gain traction in important circles…

I’ve been writing lately about something called “GBI,” which stands for guaranteed basic income. GBI is the new buzz phrase that’s the talk of academia, Silicon Valley and the elites on both coasts.

GBI goes by other names including universal basic income, UBI, or just basic income, but the policy is the same regardless of the name. The idea is that governments will guarantee every citizen a certain basic income as a matter of right. Everyone making below a certain amount of money gets a check.

It’s really just welfare by another name, but it would apply to a much broader group than just the poor and you would not have to pass any income tests or work requirements to qualify.

There is no means testing and no work requirement. The government just hands every man and woman a check every month whether rich or poor, young or old, employed or unemployed.

The idea behind GBI is that technology is making many jobs obsolete and those jobs are not coming back. Some Americans can compete in the new high-tech high-reward world, but most cannot.

If people cannot get jobs and incomes stagnate, then there will be no consumption and no one to buy the gadgets that the tech companies are making. Instead, everyone will get a check so they can spend freely.

My reason for highlighting GBI is that you’re going to be hearing a lot more about it in the next two years. Instead of a guaranteed job, leading Democratic Party politicians in the U.S. support GBI as part of their platform

Polls show that about half the American people favor it as well. The argument in favor is that GBI gives everyone a firm financial foundation on which they can seek other employment, turn down “lousy” jobs, get education and training, provide household services to family, friends and community, or maybe just be artists.

The argument against GBI is that it encourages laziness, discourages productive work, is unaffordable by heavily indebted governments, and will produce inflation, which destroys savings and impedes capital formation.

But, what about hard evidence? Some countries around the world have already started GBI programs and the initial results are not favorable.

Finland [2][3] has decided not to expand a pilot program of GBI. The program’s results in terms of job gains were disappointing. This tends to support the views of those who claim that GBI discourages work rather that encourages it through training. This is a small sample; there will be a lot more discovered about the effects of GBI in the years ahead.

Meanwhile, the political debate is going full-speed ahead. And it is not going away soon. The advocates for GBI see no problem with the budget deficit aspects of this. In their view, the Fed can monetize the debt forever; so there’s no problem finding the money.

The guaranteed jobs plan sounds better to politicians than GBI, but it still causes massive budget deficits without much in return.

In the end, the GBI and guaranteed jobs plans will fail as they always do. But that does not mean they won’t be tried. You should expect this to be a big political issue in the 2018 mid-term elections later this year and the 2020 presidential election. The deficits that go along with GBI will guarantee that America continues to go broke.

The combination of tax cuts and massively expanded government already guarantee ballooning deficits ahead. And this is when the economy is supposedly strong.

But the economy is long overdue for a recession. The typical post-WWII economic expansion lasted only 58 months or so. The current “expansion” — and I use the scare quotes because it’s been so week by historical standards — is 108 months.

What happens when the inevitable recession does strike?

Tax receipts will dry up and the government will almost certainly unleash a flood of deficit spending to stimulate the economy. And the Fed’s current policy of quantitative tightening (QT) will swing into reverse.

Debt, already at frightening levels, will spike. But the economy is in the condition it’s in today because of too much debt and not enough growth. More debt will only make things worse.

Central banks have little room to cut rates or print money in a future crisis, even with the Fed’s recent hikes. That’s why the Fed is so determined to raise rates, so it can cut them again when it needs to.

Meanwhile, taxpayers have no tolerance for more bailouts. And governments around the world are experiencing political polarization. It’s not just here in the U.S. There is simply no will and no ability to deal with the next panic or recession when it hits.

The systemic dangers are clear.

The next panic will be unstoppable without extreme measures — including IMF money printing, and lockdowns of banks and money market funds.

The calls for a guaranteed job or guaranteed basic income will soar. Unfortunately, the money won’t be there to support it.

Regards,

Jim Rickards
for The Daily Reckoning

Citations
[1] https://dailyreckoning.com/welfare-another-name/
[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/23/finland-to-end-basic-income-trial-after-two-years
[3] https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-05-15/universal-basic-income-rescue

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Here is the rub. The American working class voters would gladly support reparations, welfare, government healthcare, free college, etc, if they were the ones that received these benefits and it is the rest of the world whom pays for the benefits.

Unfortunately, the situation is quite the reverse.

This is one of the reasons I believe that many, if not most, Trump supporters are communists in everything but name.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

Faust For Science wrote:

Trump supporters are communists in everything but name.

No we are not. Many of us are Constitutional Conservatives who understand that a country with a generous welfare state and open borders is doomed. And you are wrong about working class voters. Unless you are including women. Women will ALWAYS vote for hand-outs, government goodies etc. But men (at least in my age category) will not. There was a time in my life when I was poor enough to qualify for food stamps and welfare. I declined both because I believed taking the hand-out was shameful. Sure I got by eating 88 cent chicken wieners and ramen soups, and sometimes I didn’t have heat in the winter because I couldn’t afford fuel but you just put on some long underwear and bundle up.

The question is how many people like me are still out there?

[Ranger OneParticipant 16836]

PistolPete wrote:

Faust For Science wrote:

Trump supporters are communists in everything but name.

No we are not. Many of us are Constitutional Conservatives who understand that a country with a generous welfare state and open borders is doomed. And you are wrong about working class voters. Unless you are including women. Women will ALWAYS vote for hand-outs, government goodies etc. But men (at least in my age category) will not. There was a time in my life when I was poor enough to qualify for food stamps and welfare. I declined both because I believed taking the hand-out was shameful. Sure I got by eating 88 cent chicken wieners and ramen soups, and sometimes I didn’t have heat in the winter because I couldn’t afford fuel but you just put on some long underwear and bundle up.

The question is how many people like me are still out there?

In my 20’s, I killed a small grapefruit tree I grew from seed, because my apartment got to cold at night. I never took handouts. Including when I lived out of my car (also in my 20’s)

All my life I've had doubts about who I am, where I belonged. Now I'm like the arrow that springs from the bow. No hesitation, no doubts. The path is clear. And what are you? Alive. Everything else is negotiable. Women have rights; men have responsibilities; MGTOW have freedom. Marriage is for chumps. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart-R'as al Ghul.

[PistolPeteParticipant 27143]

Ranger One wrote:

In my 20’s, I killed a small grapefruit tree I grew from seed, because my apartment got to cold at night. I never took handouts. Including when I lived out of my car (also in my 20’s)

I don’t get the tree thing, but that’s OK. The rest of it I do get. I’m gratified to know a young man has principals, integrity, and a sense of honor. Congrats man!

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

PistolPete wrote:

No we are not. Many of us are Constitutional Conservatives who understand that a country with a generous welfare state and open borders is doomed.

Pete, no offense intended, but you need to dig deep to understand what I am saying.

I am not talking about Stalism. I am talking about classic communism that Karl Marx wrote about.

This does not mean I support this, but I acknowledge what I believe is fact.

What started my belief on this matter was how the most energize Trump’s base was when Trump wants Mexico to pay for the border wall. Anytime Trump suggested the political enemies of his supporters be made to pay for something that benefits his supporters, his supporters went wild with excitement.

While the border wall plan is justified, given how much trouble Mexico is for the U.S. population, this is pure class warfare comments.

Replace “Mexico” with “white”, replace “supporters” with “minorities”, and replace “border wall” with “reparations” and you start to see what I am saying.

This was also seen with the response to the Trump tax cuts.

It seems the Trump supporters are more excited how changes in SALT (state and local taxes) deductions are going to screw over the progressive voting states, whom have been harming Trump supporters for the better part of a century, than having more money from the tax cuts.

Now, about classic communism under Karl Marx. Karl Marx might be the first public gun nut. Karl Marx stated the people should be armed with firearms and ammo and should never allow confiscation of their firearms and ammo.

This is close to what Trump supporters feel on the issue of gun ownership rights.

Karl Marx wanted monopolist practices to be reigned in.

Trump supporters are for this.

Karl Marx was against the rich censoring and being the only voice allow to publicly.

Trump supporters are being censored by the rich globalists. In many respects this is what Karl Marx warned about.

Karl Marx was pro-family unit. The father being the breadwinner, while the wife takes care and raises the children.

Trump supporters are pro-family.

Karl Marx was against industrialization and women working because the changes would destroy the family unit. And Karl Marx has been proven right on this matter.

Karl Marx was for nationalism in the sense that the peoples of each nation should take over their nation and run their nation the way they see fit.

This is many how Trump supporters view nationalism should be, both for the U.S. and the nations of the rest of the world.

This communist movement by Trump supporters has been growing so slowly that no one has noticed, not even the Trump supporters. This communism is the natural response by the abuses of the rich globalists and the globalist servants towards Trump supporters. This is the type of situation Karl Marx.

A rose by any other name is a rose. A communist by any other nation is a communist.

Further on the matter. If one looks at the situation, between their beliefs, their poor economic situations, and that they have been arming themselves to the teeth for the past decade, the Trump supporters and people like them are primed for a revolution.

Given the way the geographical demographics are in how the American are spread out, with Trump supporters being in the small towns and rural areas, while globalist supporters on in the big cities, Khmer Rouge revolution in Cambodia, with the populations of the large cities being targeted for enslavement or death by the revolutionaries.

The only reasons there have not been a revolution is that President Trump is delivering on his promises towards his supporters, and the would-be revolutionaries have having to much fun watching President Trump drive their political enemies completely insane.

But, should the situation change and President Trump was removed from office, all hell could break loose.

This is why the globalists want to disarmed the American people. This is why the globalists have their servants falsely accuse Trump supporters of being fascists, whom are historic enemies of communists.

Communists come from grassroots of those wronged by the system. Fascists attract elitists whom believe they know what is better for everyone else.

In truth, the globalists and their servants are leaning toward fascists.

To acknowledge that the Trump supporters are communists would be the same as forcing the acknowledgement that they (the globalists and their servants) are closer to fascists.

And since the globalists and servants have brainwashed their followers to the point that fascism is worse than satanism, such an acknowledge would implode support for them.

Also, Trump supporters do not view anything they get from the rest of the world as “hand-outs” but as “repayments” for wealth and opportunities stolen from them.

To go further along this train of thought. Many poor white men feel they have been wrongly opposed by bigotry for the last fifty years through affirmative action, feminism, and political correctness. The claim to give them “reparations” for them being oppressed would resonate very highly with such groups.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

But the economy is long overdue for a recession. The typical post-WWII economic expansion lasted only 58 months or so. The current “expansion” — and I use the scare quotes because it’s been so week by historical standards — is 108 months.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Jan Sobieski wrote:

But the economy is long overdue for a recession.

2007 to 2017 was a deep depression that was sold as a mild recession.

The government printed tens of trillions, maybe hundreds of trillions, of U.S. dollars (digitally) to give to the globalists, while screwing over the working classes.

The U.S. is just starting to come out of that depression with a pro-working class president, President Trump.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

Faust For Science wrote:

Replace “Mexico” with “white”, replace “supporters” with “minorities”, and replace “border wall” with “reparations” and you start to see what I am saying.

Wrong. Reparations would be forcing me to pay for a “problem”(slavery) that was abolished generations before I was ever reborn. I never thought Mexico would actually pay for a wall, but if they did it would be Mexico taking action to actively stop a problem they are contributing too, which is Mexican citizens hopping the border illegally and Mexico doing nothing to stop South American migrants who are passing through to come here illegally.

If we were in fact trying to force other countries to pay for s~~~ for us, that is called imperialism, not communism.

Faust For Science wrote:

It seems the Trump supporters are more excited how changes in SALT (state and local taxes) deductions are going to screw over the progressive voting states, whom have been harming Trump supporters for the better part of a century, than having more money from the tax cuts.

Wrong again. Trump’s tax cuts apply to every American citizen equally. Remember what SALT stands for…state and local. If you are getting screwed by SALT taxes its because of your state, not Trump.

Faust For Science wrote:

Now, about classic communism under Karl Marx. Karl Marx might be the first public gun nut. Karl Marx stated the people should be armed with firearms and ammo and should never allow confiscation of their firearms and ammo.

This is close to what Trump supporters feel on the issue of gun ownership rights.

The only thing they had in common was why they thought a general population should have the own firearms…and that is that the general population is the final check in balance against the government. Marx wanted his people armed to overthrow the government and establish communism, that is the complete opposite of what right leaning people here want to see. Its a pretty s~~~ty correlation to try to say supporting gun rights makes you a communist.

Faust For Science wrote:

Karl Marx wanted monopolist practices to be reigned in.

Trump supporters are for this.

I think just about everyone is against monopolies though. If Trump supporters were communists they’d be wanting to nationalize industries…and that just isn’t happening. Another s~~~ty correlation.

Faust For Science wrote:

Karl Marx was against the rich censoring and being the only voice allow to publicly.

Trump supporters are being censored by the rich globalists. In many respects this is what Karl Marx warned about.

I just don’t get it. Basically we have a s~~~ty biased media…so right wingers are communists? This is such a far fetched correlation it doesn’t even make sense….

Faust For Science wrote:

Karl Marx was pro-family unit. The father being the breadwinner, while the wife takes care and raises the children.

Trump supporters are pro-family.

Not really sure how this makes you a communist either. Many of the most capitalist people you’ll ever meet fit the traditional family mold

I can’t even go on…you’ve just made so many ridiculous claims here that are either flat out wrong or just have no relationship at all to actual communism. Do you even know what communism is, because it sure as hell doesn’t seem like it. I’m just not sure how so much of the crap you are claiming makes Trump supporters communist when the core of communism is basically the government runs everything and splits up all the resources as it sees fit, and well…your typical Trump supporter isn’t looking to nationalize industries and expand government spending on social programs…they’re actually looking to do the complete opposite.

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

Where can I sign up for reparations? My ancestors were from the Baltimore, County Cork, Ireland area. In 1631 African slave trader pirates entered the town and carried away 100 or so of its inhabitants. My ancestors were there, so gimme the money.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Baltimore

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

I do love a good debate. It keeps me mentally sharp.

Beer wrote:

Wrong. Reparations would be forcing me to pay for a “problem”(slavery) that was abolished generations before I was ever reborn. I never thought Mexico would actually pay for a wall, but if they did it would be Mexico taking action to actively stop a problem they are contributing too, which is Mexican citizens hopping the border illegally and Mexico doing nothing to stop South American migrants who are passing through to come here illegally.

If we were in fact trying to force other countries to pay for s~~~ for us, that is called imperialism, not communism.

I was making a comparison, on the method of how to gain support by robbing the would-be supporters political enemies and rewarding the supporters with that wealth.

This tactic is known as “Robbing Peter to pay Paul”.

My comment was intended to point out the matter was no longer an ideological divide. That the matter was a question of which group gets robbed and which group gets rewarded.

Beer wrote:

Wrong again. Trump’s tax cuts apply to every American citizen equally. Remember what SALT stands for…state and local. If you are getting screwed by SALT taxes its because of your state, not Trump.

Before the Trump tax cuts were passed, the only states that had SALT deductions were allowed for the populations of globalist leaning states such as California, New York, New Jersey, and a few other such states.

These deductions were not capped, so the politicians of these states could raise local and state taxes as high as they wanted for government programs, and the citizens of those states could deducted the full amount of their SALT taxes on their federal income tax payments. This meant the rest of the nations was subsidizing the state and local projects of those stated.

While the Trump tax cuts allowed SALT deductions for all U.S. citizens, the deductions were capped at ten thousand dollars. This is plenty for the populations of most Trump supporting states. But, this is not enough for the globalist leaning states, meaning many people in those globalist leaning states are facing heavy losses, to the point of bankruptcy, because they can no longer deduct anywhere near the total local and state taxes.

Many Trump supporters have posted comments and videos online of how they are happy that the populations of the globalist leaning are getting hosed by the Trump tax cuts.

Beer wrote:

The only thing they had in common was why they thought a general population should have the own firearms…and that is that the general population is the final check in balance against the government. Marx wanted his people armed to overthrow the government and establish communism, that is the complete opposite of what right leaning people here want to see.

You need to read up on the statements of the Founding Fathers of the U.S. They clearly state that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is to allow the American people the means to overthrow their government should the government become a threat to the American people.

In this way, both the Founding Fathers and Karl Marx have the same train of thought. It is possible that Karl Marx studied this part of American history and used the U.S. Second Amendment as a inspiration for his writings.

Beer wrote:

Its a pretty s~~~ty correlation to try to say supporting gun rights makes you a communist.

Let’s flip that around. I am pointing out that supporting gun rights and communism can go hand in hand.

Beer wrote:

I think just about everyone is against monopolies though. If Trump supporters were communists they’d be wanting to nationalize industries…and that just isn’t happening. Another s~~~ty correlation.

Many Trump supporters want the social media companies to be declared to be public utilities, which is nationalized of those industries in everything but ownership. Having those companies be declared public utilities would allow far more government control over those companies.

Beer wrote:

I just don’t get it. Basically we have a s~~~ty biased media…so right wingers are communists? This is such a far fetched correlation it doesn’t even make sense….

It seems you are ignoring how much the media and social media companies censor the Trump supporters.

Beer wrote:

Not really sure how this makes you a communist either. Many of the most capitalist people you’ll ever meet fit the traditional family mold

The point was that classic communism supports as you put it, the traditional family mold.

Beer wrote:

I can’t even go on…you’ve just made so many ridiculous claims here that are either flat out wrong or just have no relationship at all to actual communism.

I can back up my claim. As I have just shown. Can you do the same?

Beer wrote:

Do you even know what communism is,

Yes. I do. But, I doubt you do.

Beer wrote:

because it sure as hell doesn’t seem like it. I’m just not sure how so much of the crap you are claiming makes Trump supporters communist when the core of communism is basically the government runs everything and splits up all the resources as it sees fit, and well…

That is “Stalist/Stalism”. You were liking taught globalist controlled schools that “Stalism” is communism.

Stalism is not communism. Stalism is tyranny of technocratic academics that claim to be communists, but whose actions and believes lean close to fascism.

You need to track down some of the writings by Karl Marx. It is surprising how close many Trump supporters are to his beliefs.

Beer wrote:

your typical Trump supporter isn’t looking to nationalize industries and expand government spending on social programs…they’re actually looking to do the complete opposite.

Actually, Trump supporters do support this, but only if they get the benefits without them paying for the benefits, and their political enemies and perhaps the rest of the world pays for everything.

Beer, I know are a hard to believe. But, look at the facts and you will this. I am simply presenting red pills to swallow. It is your choice to take these red pills.

[743 roadmasterParticipant]

This communist/socialist thing is troubling out of you Foust. I have come to expect better.

American working class voters/Trump supporters are communists in everything but name. Could not be further off the mark.
-The essential core American. Get the government off my back. Let me make my dollar and spend it the way I want to spend it. Self determination on an epic scale. Built this country and even though it has taken hits and is being run over by liberals it is still the undercurrent that drives everything especially the economy. It is even still the reason illegals try to make it here.

mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

743 roadmaster wrote:

This communist/socialist thing is troubling out of you Foust. I have come to expect better.

Roadmaster, my comments on this matter are not about what I support, but what the chain of logic leads to.

743 roadmaster wrote:

American working class voters/Trump supporters are communists in everything but name. Could not be further off the mark.
-The essential core American. Get the government off my back. Let me make my dollar and spend it the way I want to spend it. Self determination on an epic scale.

That is what it use to be. But, long before the Trump election win broke the democrats mentally, the democrats mentally broke the republican grassroots. This happened when the tea party could not stop Obamacare from being passed into law, with the democrats rubbing the matter in their faces, then the democrats used the government to abuse the tea party groups and members and the Supreme Court showed how corrupt they were by claiming Obamacare was “constitutional”.

Something broke in the tea party people. That protests, the courts, and voting (with a few exceptions) no longer work. That the American dream of individualism is dead. That was when the gun buying boom really started, with more people becoming preppers.

For many of these people, it is no longer about building something, or saving. It is about getting back what they feel was stolen from them and what they are “entitled to”. This is class warfare of the most rare, feral sort. These beliefs run right into the classic communism Karl Marx wrote about, where those abused by the system come together to change or tear down the system in the hopes of claiming what they believe is rightfully their wealth.

These people did not vote for President Trump on individualism. They voted for President Trump because President Trump promised to create policies that would help them and harm their political enemies.

Conservatism is all but dead in the U.S. Though, nationalism and patriotism is still very much alive.

And you cannot deny this because MGTOW is founded on the fact the system is rigged and is abusing the people. That the only winning move is not to play the rigged game. The only difference is MGTOW has men walk away instead of being pro-active towards changing the system.

The only reason I laugh at this insanity is because I do not want to cry in the face of this insanity.

Now, I would love to be wrong. But, if you are going to convince me, you need to give examples, instead of just saying I am wrong.

[Anonymous 1]

It’s all redistribution of wealth.
Redistribution of wealth is organized buying of votes on a national, legal scale.

Politics 101:
“Those folks have stuff [that they worked for]. That makes those folks bad. If I promise to take some stuff from those bad people and give it to you, you’ll vote for me, right?”

[FrostByteParticipant 19005]

There is plenty of evidence to support this will fail. I only want 3k a year and you give me 10k I will do something to subtract 7k by gambling, drugs etc.

If you rescue a damsel in distress, all you will get is a distressed damsel.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

Faust For Science wrote:

I was making a comparison, on the method of how to gain support by robbing the would-be supporters political enemies and rewarding the supporters with that wealth.

This tactic is known as “Robbing Peter to pay Paul”.

My comment was intended to point out the matter was no longer an ideological divide. That the matter was a question of which group gets robbed and which group gets rewarded.

No lol. Your wrong dude, this was a stupid comparison. Communism has to do with managing the resources of your own country, not foreign policy. Besides…a good commie doesn’t think he’s robbing anyone, they’re all working for the common good.

Faust For Science wrote:

Before the Trump tax cuts were passed, the only states that had SALT deductions were allowed for the populations of globalist leaning states such as California, New York, New Jersey, and a few other such states.

No. SALT deductions were allowed for everybody.

Faust For Science wrote:

These deductions were not capped, so the politicians of these states could raise local and state taxes as high as they wanted for government programs, and the citizens of those states could deducted the full amount of their SALT taxes on their federal income tax payments. This meant the rest of the nations was subsidizing the state and local projects of those stated.

While the Trump tax cuts allowed SALT deductions for all U.S. citizens, the deductions were capped at ten thousand dollars. This is plenty for the populations of most Trump supporting states. But, this is not enough for the globalist leaning states, meaning many people in those globalist leaning states are facing heavy losses, to the point of bankruptcy, because they can no longer deduct anywhere near the total local and state taxes.

So in other words, Trump’s tax cuts apply to everyone equally and states with high taxes are f~~~ing its citizens…like I said.

Faust For Science wrote:

Many Trump supporters have posted comments and videos online of how they are happy that the populations of the globalist leaning are getting hosed by the Trump tax cuts.

So person A is happy they no longer have to subsidize person B through the federal tax code as much and that makes them a communist. Interesting.

Faust For Science wrote:

You need to read up on the statements of the Founding Fathers of the U.S. They clearly state that the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is to allow the American people the means to overthrow their government should the government become a threat to the American people.

In this way, both the Founding Fathers and Karl Marx have the same train of thought. It is possible that Karl Marx studied this part of American history and used the U.S. Second Amendment as a inspiration for his writings.

That’s what I meant by we have firearms as the final check and balance against the government. The difference being if there was a bloody revolution the typical Trump supporter would want to reinstall a more limited government that more embodies the original constitution…not a communist state. Dude its just stupid, no way to put it nicely, acting like pro-gun equals communist lol.

Faust For Science wrote:

Let’s flip that around. I am pointing out that supporting gun rights and communism can go hand in hand.

What does supporting gun rights having to do with wanting a government that controls all commerce and all distribution of wealth? NOTHING.

Faust For Science wrote:

Many Trump supporters want the social media companies to be declared to be public utilities, which is nationalized of those industries in everything but ownership. Having those companies be declared public utilities would allow far more government control over those companies.

Are you just making s~~~ up now? This is something “many Trump supporters want” yet I’ve never even heard of this before.

Faust For Science wrote:

It seems you are ignoring how much the media and social media companies censor the Trump supporters.

So what your saying is libertarians could hold a rally where 100,000 people show up and get painted in a negative light, minimized, or simply ignored by the media, and those 100,000 libertarians are now communists?

Faust For Science wrote:

The point was that classic communism supports as you put it, the traditional family mold.

And again…what does this have to do with how you think the government/economy should be run? Are you saying I can’t be a capitalist and support the traditional family unit?

Faust For Science wrote:

I can back up my claim. As I have just shown. Can you do the same?

Sure…only…I’ve actually made sense and not just said things like “If a liberally biased media is biased against you, you are a communist.”

Faust For Science wrote:

Yes. I do. But, I doubt you do.

Yet, you keep trying to Trump supporters are communists based upon criteria that have nothing to do with what communism actually is.

Faust For Science wrote:

That is “Stalist/Stalism”. You were liking taught globalist controlled schools that “Stalism” is communism.

Stalism is not communism. Stalism is tyranny of technocratic academics that claim to be communists, but whose actions and believes lean close to fascism.

You need to track down some of the writings by Karl Marx. It is surprising how close many Trump supporters are to his beliefs.

Right out of the dictionary…

“a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state. ”

In other words…the government owns everything and divides it up as it sees fit. Want a Marx quote?

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”

Yeah…that sounds like what the average Trump supporter wants lol.

Faust For Science wrote:

Actually, Trump supporters do support this, but only if they get the benefits without them paying for the benefits, and their political enemies and perhaps the rest of the world pays for everything.

I’m sorry, I have nothing left to say on the topic if you think Trump supporters want to nationalize industries. I just can’t debate with someone who wants to make bulls~~~ up.

And again…in theory…if we want to force the rest of the world to pay for s~~~, it has nothing to do with communism. Like I said…

Imperialism is an action that involves a nation extending its power by the acquisition of inhabited territory. It may also include the exploitation of these territories

Its quite possible to be a capitalist and an imperialist, or a communist and an imperialist. In other words…we could be capitalists and imperialists, or communists and imperialists…they simply have nothing to do with each other.

Faust For Science wrote:

Beer, I know are a hard to believe. But, look at the facts and you will this. I am simply presenting red pills to swallow. It is your choice to take these red pills.

I’ve looked at the facts. The facts just aren’t what you present. Its simply not correct saying Karl Marx supported gun rights, Karl Marx was a communist, therefore if you support gun rights, you are a communist, and that is the crap you are trying to say is fact.

[bstoffParticipant 4863]

Faust For Science wrote:

I was making a comparison, on the method of how to gain support by robbing the would-be supporters political enemies and rewarding the supporters with that wealth.
This tactic is known as “Robbing Peter to pay Paul”.
My comment was intended to point out the matter was no longer an ideological divide. That the matter was a question of which group gets robbed and which group gets rewarded.

The wall, SALT taxes, etc., are not robbing Peter to Pay Paul. They are not reparations. All Trump is doing/proposing is correcting wrongs that are ongoing.
If the house is on fire, you put out the fire with water.

Your other arguments are the same thing.
You sound like like a college professor trying to indoctrinate students into false teachings.
What you are doing is twisting things to give the impression you want others to believe.

Trump supporters are really Marxists?
Are you kidding?

I’ve seen some great logic and great arguments from you before, Faust, but it seems like you are trying to troll here.
What’s up?
Are you just trying to dig up a reason to distrust Trump?

[743 roadmasterParticipant]

Faust stop looking at the states through the eyes of NBC, CBS and ABC.
Blaming the tea party and the work it has done to correct a liberal leftist coastal elite is just wrong. The simple fact that the tea grew up and started to make a difference in politics when the leftist were almost in total control makes my point.
The deep state has roots, as we are learning. Correcting problems will take time and if it dose not happen it dose not change the core idealism of most of the people.

Oh and the idealism is not the same thing as conservatism. Just like Trump’s win was not on conservatives but that idealism of what this country is and can be……..like the reason you have hard core conservatives who are never Trumpers. The reason Trump dose not go to the conservatives, but to the people.
Also why Trump won on Make America Great Again, not lets stick to 0bama or slogan like Jeb was running on.

mgtow is its own worst enemy- https://www.campusreform.org/

[iMickey503Participant 12465]

Whatever. Its not like its going to help men anyways.

You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Beer wrote:

No lol. Your wrong dude, this was a stupid comparison. Communism has to do with managing the resources of your own country, not foreign policy. Besides…a good commie doesn’t think he’s robbing anyone, they’re all working for the common good.

As I said, you have been brainwashed into thinking Stalism and classic communism by Karl Marx is the same thing.

Beer wrote:

No. SALT deductions were allowed for everybody.

No. Before the Trump tax cut SALT deductions were only allow citizens within a few states.

Beer wrote:

So in other words, Trump’s tax cuts apply to everyone equally and states with high taxes are f~~~ing its citizens…like I said.

You miss my point.

Beer wrote:

So person A is happy they no longer have to subsidize person B through the federal tax code as much and that makes them a communist. Interesting.

But is person A is left in poverty for a lifetime of subsidizing person B, person A would want back what was taken from person B and the supporters of person B, with interest.

That is wealth distribution.

You mistake is believing that the situation can only go one way.

Beer wrote:

That’s what I meant by we have firearms as the final check and balance against the government.

But, are incorrect. There is no difference between the two because both come from a standpoint of having the people have arms to overthrow a corrupt government.

Beer wrote:

What does supporting gun rights having to do with wanting a government that controls all commerce and all distribution of wealth? NOTHING.

As I stated, that is not classic communism. That is is Stalism. Classic communism is about the people rising up to determine their own freedom by taking back what has been stolen and wrongfully denied them.

That is what communists believe. I do not necessarily agreeing with it, but I am acknowledging.

Beer wrote:

Are you just making s~~~ up now? This is something “many Trump supporters want” yet I’ve never even heard of this before.

This is your defense. You clearly have not looked into the policies Trump supporters support.

Beer wrote:

So what your saying is libertarians could hold a rally where 100,000 people show up and get painted in a negative light, minimized, or simply ignored by the media, and those 100,000 libertarians are now communists?

No. You say that. Many Trump supporters are either radicalized tea party members and worker classing people, with some from union.

Trump supporters are not a conservative group.

Beer wrote:

And again…what does this have to do with how you think the government/economy should be run? Are you saying I can’t be a capitalist and support the traditional family unit?

As I stated before, you confusion classic communism with Stalism.

Beer wrote:

Sure…only…I’ve actually made sense

No. You do not make sense. You make a lot of accusations of comments you cannot constructively disagree with.

Beer wrote:

Right out of the dictionary…

Said publishers of dictionaries are controlled by the same globalists that control the schools.

Look up the actual writing of Karl Marx. His writings are far different than what you were likely taught in school.

Keep in mind the globalists whom control the schools want the commoners to be slaves, so the globalists make sure the schools never teach the truth.

Schools no longer even teach math. This “new math” is designed to prevent people from learning actual math.

Beer wrote:

I’m sorry, I have nothing left to say on the topic if you think Trump supporters want to nationalize industries. I just can’t debate with someone who wants to make bulls~~~ up.

Then, I guess you do not debate with yourself.

Beer wrote:

I’ve looked at the facts.

No. I see no facts from you, only accusations.

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