Thought Experiment: How to maintain a happy relationship

[AgitoMParticipant 99]

Hi All,

Would like to launch a little thought experiment here, that I have been having and would like to hear some input from a MGTOW perspective.

The experiment I am going to describe here, is based on events I have encountered, and will provide sufficient background info, but is by no means a situation I am really into right now.

First the background. This involves several actual Asian countries, but to avoid sounding biased towards certain people, and to protect my background, I will not mention the actual names.

Am working in well developed Asian Country A. Country A is pretty much a mixture of people from all over the world, but mostly other Asian Countries. I have also completed studies in the country. While I was studying, I have many male and female classmates from Country B.

Country B is not very well developed, and gender roles are still very strong. As a matter a fact, when working in groups with females from Country B, I noticed that some of them did not dare to speak to me during discussions. Eventually I found out that in their families Females stayed in the kitchen for the most part, and never disagreed with men. Took me several weeks to get some of these girls comfortable enough to speak to me when work needed to be done. On other occasions, these girls would bring food to school and share around. Much to my surprise all of them would insist I’d try and food, and were clearly looking for getting indirect acknowledgement from me in terms of them being good nurturing providers.

I had a colleague from Country C. Country C is next to Country B, and shared some cultural similarities. He recommended me to pursue a relationship with any of the girls from Country B, stating that they were submissive and good nurturing qualities. I attended this colleagues wedding in his homeland, and indeed noticed that in his house as well, the women served the men, and had little to no say in anything. What I also noticed however, specially in the hotel I was staying, is that the moment the local men were out of the room, the female hotel staff would turn from passive and submissive to flirty and naughty. In short,I got the impression females mostly played the role they were supposed to play.

My colleague from Country C, married a woman who was smarter and better educated then he was, got her to give up on good career and education prospects. Though this is their personal choice, one thing I do dislike about him, is that when I had dinner at his house once in Country A, he kept on making one demeaning comment after another about his wife, and the fact females have no say where he is from, in her presence. I disliked it mostly because he basically put himself on a high horse totally ignoring the fact his wife was far from a dumb lady.

I’m out of touch with my colleague, my classmates have all left the country, but here is my thought experiment:

Say if I were to end up a relationship with one of girls from Country B, how can I ensure that she will keep on having the nurturing and respectful qualities I see in them? Can I find a balance between giving them enough freedom and respect but they still continue to be good nurturing wives? Or will I have no choice but to be as authoritarian as my colleague?

Any answer is acceptable, but I hope people will mostly provide their thoughts one the “grey area” I mentioned. The middle ground in my opinion is always the most interesting. Can I keep a girl to maintain good qualities, without becoming brutally authoritarian?

Hope to hear you thoughts and comments on my experiences and thought experiment.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

AgitoM wrote:

how can I ensure that she will keep on having the nurturing and respectful qualities I see in them? Can I find a balance between giving them enough freedom and respect but they still continue to be good nurturing wives? Or will I have no choice but to be as authoritarian as my colleague?

AgitoM wrote:

Can I keep a girl to maintain good qualities, without becoming brutally authoritarian?

Notice you are approaching this as if YOU have more than 50% (if not all) control of the outcome. And you don’t. A relationship/marriage is not like owning 51% of a corporation.

But I also don’t like it when it’s referred to as “A”…. relationship.

It’s TWO relationships going on.
1. Her relationship to/with YOU.
2. And YOUR relationship to/with HER.

Too many people (including women themselves) think as long as SHE is content or happy, everything will be fine. “Happy wife, happy life” and all of that.

FALSE.

If you are approaching it as if you must constantly be operating on a higher plane than she in order to make it work… the man is always going to be alone – even within the relationship or marriage. Approaching it that way means it will never be an “equal” partnership.

You are concerning yourself with HER relationship and making it about whether she will keep on having the nurturing and respectful qualities”…. but she needs to be equally concerned if you will keep on having the nurturing and respectful qualities, and that work is up to HER.

She has to work to keep you just as interested and invested in it. It isn’t enough to think the way you approach it is everything.

Keeping a wife nurturing and respectful is only HALF of it. She has to keep you nurturing, respectful and a willing participant too. So really, the only person to discuss (or negotiate) this with ….. is the woman herself. The outcome of BOTH of your relationships to each other depends on it. It’s not up to you and you alone.

… because if all you need is to be a “brutal authoritarian”, then you will always be alone. It’s a virtual guarantee, and it would be like placing yourself in that position on purpose.

—-

Forget the thought experiment and turn it into a REAL experiment. Direct your question to her and watch what happens:

“How can I ensure that you will keep on having the nurturing and respectful qualities I see in you? Can I find a balance between giving you enough freedom and respect while you still continue to be good nurturing wife? Or will I have no choice but to be a brutal authoritarian?”

The million dollar question.
Wouldn’t you love to get HER response to that?

Because this guy got F~~~ED after 16 years of trying to make his wife “happy”. She even claimed to be “happy”. But not so deep down, she is miserable and hates his f~~~ing guts.

So perhaps being a “brutal authoritarian” would have pleased her more.
But then…. would HE be happy?

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[RipTideSpectator 108]

relationship? That’s feminist.

Marriages are supposed to be arranged by fathers. Divorce should be banned for women. Women should not leave the house or talk back to their masters.

[Enjoy The DeclineParticipant 1719]

Okay, well country c and country b have similar traits. But the girls in country c were flirty and naughty as soon as the guys are out. Also, as soon as country c girl goes to a country a place because that is where you met your colleague who is also considered country c with his wife, you find that the colleague who originally was in country c who now lives with his wife in country a, now the wife is acting like the mixed traits of country a to the worse extent.

I will make things very simple for you to avoid confusion. Female nature is universal. They might be submissive and passive in the beginning, but they can manipulate you in other ways and they can even trick you to think that it is all your idea when in reality you are only benefiting them.

"Question everything" - Albert Einstein

[FearlessMGHOWParticipant 1928]

The way to maintain a happy relations~~~? Easy! Keep women away from you at all times unless you wanna f~~~’em! And even then, never f~~~’em in your place! Rent a motel or something!

The best “relations~~~” to have is a pump and dump relations~~~ if you ever wanna have sex with women!

If you’re cool with being celibate that’s even better in the long run!

Get a fleshlight, sex doll, or even a sexbot! Women are useless and are only good for SEX! THAT’S IT!

Relations~~~s are like giant turds. The longer you leave them in your life the longer they’ll stink up the place and stain your floors even more! If you leave them in there for too long, it’ll ruin your floor and you can never get rid of it unless you pay out the ass to do so!

Men age like fine wine. Women age like milk. "One hundred women are not worth a single testicle." -Confucius

[AvidAvariceParticipant 223]

Keymaster’s wisdom is always on point.

I’d just add – are there any common law/cohabitation = marriage laws on the books in Country A? Is there a strong social stigma around separation/divorce?

What does a separation/divorce look like in “Country A” from a legal standpoint? 50/50 split of assets and little to no alimony? Merciless prison rape of your current and future assets? Do you have any legal recourse to see your children?

If there’s common law (or, god forbid, you plan to get married) and you’re legally forced to take care of your girlfriend/wife in the event of a divorce, and she won’t be socially ostracized for any of it, then she doesn’t have any skin in the game the way you do, and she will more or less never be on the same page as you when it comes to making things work. And, as Keymaster said, you can’t “make” it work alone – she needs to give just as much of a damn as you, and the environment in which you try to make it work will strongly influence whether or not she’ll try. Without the social stigma around divorce, you might as well quit while you’re ahead.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

I think the only shot in hell you’d have would be to move to her country where she’d follow the social rules you like. I’ve heard plenty of horror stories about guys who marry foreign women, bring them to their home country, and soon as they get citizenship they turn into demon spawns with nonstop demands or divorce rape them and act just like the local women they tried to avoid.

I haven’t really looked into too hard but if I was going to marry foreign I’d really look into if there was any way I could leave the bulk of my assets here to shelter them in the event of the foreign relationship failing. Wouldn’t be a bad deal to go unicorn hunting in a foreign country and if it blows up in your face just walk away and not go back to that country again, or if the divorce could only impact your foreign funds which would be a small % of your net worth…but I’m not exactly sure if that is possible.

[OldBillParticipant]

AgitoM wrote:

Would like to launch a little thought experiment here…

Familiar with the phrase “Garbage In, Garbage Out”? You should because it describes your “experiment” perfectly. Keymaster has pointed out several flaws with your “experiment” so I’ll limit myself to the “gross conceptual error” at it’s heart.

Your experiment is fatally flawed on it’s most fundamental level because you cannot as one person wholly control what another person thinks and believes over the course of their life. You cannot import women from Country B into Country A and expect the culture of Country A not to eventually effect her. Unless you plan on spending the rest of your life as the warden of a do-it-yourself prison you lock some simple country girl up in you are not going to be able to keep her from changing. Stop dreaming and start acknowledging reality.

On another note, drop the childish Country A, Country B, etc. bulls~~~ and use the actual names. We’re all men here. We don’t need to self edit because we’re not SJW, feminists, manginas, and other c~~~s.

Finally, this forum takes a very dim view of discussions about “controlling” or “manipulating” women. MGTOW is about reclaiming our own personal sovereignty and not about removing or limiting the personal sovereignty of other human beings.

Women are human beings and, while we regularly take exception with their behavior, we should never deny their humanity.

We do not hate in MGTOW. Hate is a sterile emotion. More importantly, hate requires caring. MGTOWs is about moving beyond caring and cultivating indifference.

Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.

[AgitoMParticipant 99]

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies and viewpoints to far.
Here is my reaction to some of the points made:

First, my foundation for the thought experiment was very simply put this:
– Girls from Country B have good qualities towards their men, but are kept in check mostly by strong social norms and authoritarian men.
– As a @beer indicated, when given more freedom, or moved out of their original environment, there is a high chance they will change.
– Given those facts, is the only choice I would have it to be extremely authoritarian, or can a middle ground be found?

The scenario is purely something that takes place in my mind. Am currently completely out of touch with the girls from Country B, and not considering any relationship with them.

btw, to further add to the complexity, I work and studied in Asian Country A, but am born in Western Country D.

@keymaster
Very much appreciate your reply. I indeed always came from the angle of “What is it I need to do?”. But you are very right, a relationship requires effort from both sides. I can indeed imagine that stating to my partner that if she over time loses her good qualities and become a she-devil using the space I gave her, I would indeed lose interest and walk out of the door. In return it is indeed fair that I also need to do effort to be good to her in return and keep her interest.

And yes, you have me thinking now: “Would would indeed happen if I were to direct the question directly to a girl”. (As you suggested)

@Enjoy the decline
I am indeed aware that once someone is outside their original environment, they develop more habits from the place they are in. Next to that, how someone like me treats his partner also is based on my own background. It is part of the reason I wonder if it is possible to be in a relationship with someone who is raised to be submissive, and not loose those qualities over time.

And yes, I am also quite sure that the submissive behaving women in Country C, have ways to manipulate their guys. As a matter a fact, there are plenty of stories in which the Empress of China, manipulates her Husband, the Monarch to do his bidding, while pretending to be an obedient wife.

@avidavarice
Country A is basically the place where I live, as a citizen of a other country I don’t even necessarily have to marry here. But will elaborate a bit on marriage and divorce in Country A, since it’s kinda interesting.

The law of Country A is similar to those in Western Countries. Meaning Common Law marriage results in a 50/50 split. Alimony is also common. Socially, Divorce has a stigma on it, but is becoming more common. Cohabitation is frowned upon and uncommon but not actively stopped. Cohabitation holds no legal status, so legally speaking you are either “married” or “single”.

[Total LeeParticipant 1573]

Interesting reads in here.

OldBill wrote:

Your experiment is fatally flawed on it’s most fundamental level because you cannot as one person wholly control what another person thinks and believes over the course of their life. You cannot import women from Country B into Country A and expect the culture of Country A not to eventually effect her.

This ^

@agitom It has nothing with geography. Unaccaptable to you is unacceptable to you in New York as it is in Taipei. Ask around and the lovely Eastern Euro girls who flock to citites like LA get one sniff of the s~~~ women try to get away with, and within 1 year, she’s fully Amercanized.

[AgitoMParticipant 99]

@oldbill
The controlling and authoritarian attitude I’ve experienced in various parts in Asia were indeed hard to stomach for me. Sadly, can’t really be a guest in someones’s house and openly critique the host for how he speaks about and treats women. So becoming like that that is indeed the last thing I want.

@Total Lee
In extension to what OldBill and others also said, I indeed know it’s unavoidable that a person moves from one country to another, the social norms there affect a person. (The East European women you mentioned are a good example). I do like to ponder about whether or not a middle ground can be reached.

But yes, I’ll honestly admit, that though I enjoy pondering over these things, the experiment scenario might indeed be impossible.

[Crazy CanuckMember 4215]

Forget what you’re thinking. I was born in South Korea which was the most traditionalist country. My cousin got married to a submissive Korean woman in South Korea. He is a hard worker and makes a lot money due to a rich step cousin and step aunt due to their connection.

Anyways after awhile my cousin’s wife wanted control of the money. They fought tooth and nail about it. She wanted every pay check from him which he refused. So his wife left him with the kids and move into her parent’s home.

Eventually my cousin got divorced. One would think he would learn or least research. Now he is eganged to an another Asian would in China when he was working there.

I read an article about Chinese women. At first these Chinese women were submissive however after they got married they expected their husband to hire people do to do her work and buy her expensive gift.

Women are slowly changed even in Asia. Look at Japan how men are expected to hand over their pay checks to their wives.

It’s different in Asia however it’s no better. Don’t be fooled, these women will simply fool hook, line and sinker. At least with American women you know what you’re dealing with. With Asian women you really don’t know. Sure there are good women out there in Asia but it will be difficult to tell. Only time will show these c~~~s their true colors.

"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle

[VarunParticipant 2981]

Your country B sounds more like the country I’m from. Let me tell you a bit more about how women from country B are actually.

They are like that, “motherly, nurturing” only because they have a good strong traditionalist system that keeps their behaviour in check. Had they been allowed the amount of freedom like the western countries, you’d have seen the mayhem no doubt.

Their ‘good’ nature does not set them aside from their western counterparts.. why? Because they just haven’t had the exposure. You tell them: “Hey, no need to be scared anymore. Psst! A secret. These authoritative men who keeps everything in check? Here’s how you can overpower them…….”

and that’s all you need to transmute them out of their nature. So NO, you cannot “retain” their good qualities no matter howmuchever you try. You being from a western country will further complicate things for you.

The only thing that’s holding them from turning into wild bitches is a thin string of traditionalist values… you severe that, and presto! Mayhem en masse!

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

Focus on the relationship with yourself.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[Anonymous 42]

Keymaster wrote:

Notice you are approaching this as if YOU have more than 50% (if not all) control of the outcome. And you don’t. A relationship/marriage is not like owning 51% of a corporation.

But I also don’t like it when it’s referred to as “A”…. relationship.

It’s TWO relationships going on.
1. Her relationship to/with YOU.
2. And YOUR relationship to/with HER.

Too many people (including women themselves) think as long as SHE is content or happy, everything will be fine. “Happy wife, happy life” and all of that.

FALSE.

If you are approaching it as if you must constantly be operating on a higher plane than she in order to make it work… the man is always going to be alone – even within the relationship or marriage. Approaching it that way means it will never be an “equal” partnership.

You are concerning yourself with HER relationship and making it about whether she will keep on having the nurturing and respectful qualities”…. but she needs to be equally concerned if you will keep on having the nurturing and respectful qualities, and that work is up to HER.

She has to work to keep you just as interested and invested in it. It isn’t enough to think the way you approach it is everything.

Keeping a wife nurturing and respectful is only HALF of it. She has to keep you nurturing, respectful and a willing participant too. So really, the only person to discuss (or negotiate) this with ….. is the woman herself. The outcome of BOTH of your relationships to each other depends on it. It’s not up to you and you alone.

… because if all you need is to be a “brutal authoritarian”, then you will always be alone. It’s a virtual guarantee, and it would be like placing yourself in that position on purpose.

—-

Forget the thought experiment and turn it into a REAL experiment. Direct your question to her and watch what happens:

“How can I ensure that you will keep on having the nurturing and respectful qualities I see in you? Can I find a balance between giving you enough freedom and respect while you still continue to be good nurturing wife? Or will I have no choice but to be a brutal authoritarian?”

The million dollar question.
Wouldn’t you love to get HER response to that?

Because this guy got F~~~ED after 16 years of trying to make his wife “happy”. She even claimed to be “happy”. But not so deep down, she is miserable and hates his f~~~ing guts.

So perhaps being a “brutal authoritarian” would have pleased her more.
But then…. would HE be happy?

Bravo to Keymaster! Well said!

I’m going to go into the darker side of things (country “A” women).
Since the dawn of feminism the focus of western women has been on “women”. Everything they fought for was pro women, “anti men”. think about that.

They weren’t pursuing “men’s problems”, they were focusing on themselves, on their own gender, nothing else. Meanwhile this poisonous additude of self focus had saturated this society by the 1960’s. People were focusing on color race and gender while society as a whole was ignored, it stopped being a whole society and fractured into pieces, parts, and bits. By the 1970’s Alex Haley’s “Roots” was made a movie, again encouraging self focus and anger against others and a negative thinking towards the society around them. It spawned allot of anger toward white men, robbing all those before them the sacrifices made in the name of unity, justice, and equality. It spat in the faces of the abolitionists of slavery, it spat in the face of good and decent slave owners that treated their slaves better then the surrounding white peasant population, and painted another black swath over those that sacrificed for the cause of freedom. It also spat in the faces of black men that endured incredible ridicule and prodigious like the Tuskegee airmen (true freedom fighters).

Here’s the tricky part, consider the XX XY chromosomes as XX being Emotion/Emotion and the XY being Emotion/Logic, we’re the only ones to hold that special key (logic=Y). We’re different down to every living cell in our bodies! They actually think they can assign gender through surgery and chemicals, they’re fools, nothing more.

With the focus of women being on themselves they’re blind to the logic like a ship in fog without a foghorn. If they were focused more on the man in a positive way, they could reciprocate with the logic (Y chromosome) like an echo coming from the shore giving them direction and warning them of danger, but they don’t, that’s why this society has some serious hell to pay.

We’ve been traveling down the road of emotion over logic as woman’s (now narcissistic thinking)has inundated the females of this society. They’ve been poisoning the spirit of man for more than 50+years, or since the dawn of feminism. We see it’s toxic effects on men as these men (us) are extracted directly by women, or indirectly by societies favorable treatment of women at a horrific cost to men. That’s where we are in countries “A”.

The rise of MGTOW is man’s last resort to escape the flames of narcissism that now ruin men’s lives by the multi millions. These facts are undeniable! Feminism has destroyed all that we see today, the slums, the poverty, the family, all at a cost of government expansion that solves nothing and stifles everything! Men aren’t just walking away anymore, they’re RUNNING AWAY!

The MGTOW life consists of one logic chromosome and one emotion chromosome, and through introspection our MAN chromosome(Y=Logic) has naturally risen to guide the lost and lonely X chromosome. Throw in a couple narcissistic YY chromosomes then the MGTOW life goes to s~~~! It all adds up to always ask Y.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

Varun wrote:

The only thing that’s holding them from turning into wild bitches is a thin string of traditionalist values… you severe that, and presto! Mayhem en masse!

Oh yeah…that’s what I was thinking. Unless you want to live in her country where her family, other women, and the values of that country will keep her in check for you so you don’t have to turn into a manipulative control freak, its not worth the risk. Bringing a traditional woman from a more traditional country to America for example, would be like starting the timer on a time bomb and living in blissful ignorance until it detonates.

[Anonymous 54]

I believ all women have the same underlying nature.And yes you do have to be a brut to keep them submissive But like KM pionted out what does that get you? An athauritarian lives his life alone. Witch brings you back to Mgtow. All Men are alone.Why have a wife wreck it?

[narwhalParticipant]

The way I see it, a person’s behavior is based on their perception of consequences, or commitment. I don’t really want to have a relationship where her behavior is based on consequences. I don’t think I can trust a woman to keep her commitments when it comes to her behavior towards me.

This is exactly why a woman’s behavior suddenly changes after marriage. She had consequences for her bad behavior. You may decide you don’t want to be with her anymore and she won’t get the marriage she wants. After marriage, the consequences are removed, and she may actually get rewarded for bad behavior. Her behavior was always based on consequences, no commitment.

So, IMO, the only way to have a happy relationship is to find someone who’s behavior is based on commitment, not consequences. Good luck with that.

Ok. Then do it.

[Big BossParticipant 4496]

AgitoM wrote:

Hi All,

Would like to launch a little thought experiment here, that I have been having and would like to hear some input from a MGTOW perspective.

Ok, I actually read all that and I got to say this is NOT from a MGTOW perspective.

1. Need to have 2 wives. That way if one denies you sex, well f~~~ that you can tap the other ass. They want to protest? Get another piece of ass and tap that ass. Happy dick happy man. F~~~ bitches’ opinion on this. The whole point of “marriage” is guaranteed wet dick. Dry dick means you done f~~~ed up.

2. Be the head of the household. Never let the state dictate what the relationship is and how YOUR money is allocated for providing for your family. You are a man, YOU can divide the assets. Getting the government involvement in your family and relationship means you failed.

3. Never give up your power. Once you treat them like equals instead of you the provider of their c~~~ socks, its over. Your family unit goes to s~~~.

[Anonymous 7]

Women are women. What particular societal paradigm they follow changes when they move.

[Author]

Posts