The MGTOW road to Stoicism and Minimalism, then Existential nihilism

[DocParticipant]

I always enjoy reading your posts Hermit. I am still a keen MGTOW but not as able to post as much as before.

Happy Holidays right back at ya Hermit Brother.

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape, finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. Marcus Aurelius

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

Good discussion. To me, most people are concerned more about what OTHERS think than their OWN HAPPINESS. This goes far beyond ‘red pill’ concepts. We let OTHERS dictate too much — parents deciding what you want to become. Marketing convincing you to buy s~~~ you don’t need and can’t afford. People convincing you that you must marry and must have children.

I have very little interest in ‘keeping up with the Jones’s’. A 65 in TV isn’t going to provide much more utility than the 55 in I’m typing this on, until my vision degrades to where I can’t see it clearly, haha.

If you don’t care about impressing others, it TENDS to lead to minimalism, other than spending and expending efforts on activities and possessions that actually bring YOU joy.

I don’t give a s~~~ what people think of my old car, why I don’t live in a tonier neighborhood, live in a McMansion, etc.

I also relate to some of the core ideas of Stoicism as laid out by Seneca. I learned about Stoicism long before I knew anything about MGTOW, though — back in high school when studying Latin in the late 1980’s.

“Pain is slight if opinion has added nothing to it; … in thinking it slight, you will make it slight. Everything depends on opinion. It is according to opinion that we suffer. A man is as wretched as he has convinced himself that he is.”
Seneca

[iMickey503Participant 12465]

narwhal wrote:

There needs to be a word for Carnage’s outlook. I think I get what you mean. It’s not a matter of finding meaning/purpose in life, or deciding their is no mean, it’s a matter not be concerned about meaning. Instead, take happiness when it presence itself, and avoid unnecessary pain and anguish.
Or maybe I got it all wrong.
In a way, it’s a ‘child-like’ approach. And I don’t mean that negatively. Children do not always question everything, they are happy to accept things for the way they are without wondering why.

Sorry about my getting to the point simplistic language, but this is not what I would call an overall true statement. Kids questions tons of things. Even why they are given what they get. They see this as others have things they do not. Or are able to do things they do not have the capability to do.

FrankOne wrote:

Stoicism

Basically, SPOCK from Star Trek or any Green blooded Vulcan.

So under that definition as I understand it of Stoicism:
the endurance of pain or hardship without a display of feelings and without complaint.

Boy, that sure seems like Blue pill mindset to me. Maybe I am missing something, (I am sure I am) but it seems to have an “ISM” at the end of it. That alone makes me Suspect. And for those that say they practice it? The percentage that men claim to practice Stoicism seems suspect as well just by looking at their actions. But then I guess we can all just make another excuse.

I think this is more appropriate of those that claim to follow any sort of belief. They are only half way doing it. Again, as a human you can’t be perfect right? Same of that of a machine. Even our own cells seem to have a problem making up their “Mind”

So for those that say there is no meaning of life, or you have to find your own, instead of making it hard to understand by most, let’s make this simple and clear.

Now say for example (I will use Carnage since his the only one with tough skin) THe fact that someone here forgot that he tried to kill himself just shows the apathy of people. How do you forget reading something like that? True, I take more of a personal interest in the people here then some, but it’s my nature. Now why would Carnage go out of his way to be a “Troll” as some would call him? Because, as a doctor, he understands how people work. He also understands the concept of :

IF YOU CARE THEY CAN CONTROL YOU.

The problem is, you I and just about everyone is not only incapable of stoicism, it goes against the very fiber of Masculinity. How, I will let you come up with that yourself, but I don’t think for a second that People like Carnage are in fact people who do not care. It is there way of improving the world around them by teaching others the valuable lesson to let go of the things that you care about since most are meaningless and overall are not there to benefit you as a thinking, feeling and overall, irrational human.

The Greatest gift and curse mankind has been given is the ability to feel. Not only that, when you are able to cross that with empathy, and logic, you understand that it is a serious foe in life.

I don’t want to make absolutes but I try so I don’t sound like John Doe. (sorry buddy, I know your smart, but being smart has nothing to do with connecting 2 points in an electrical circuit. Sure, there is Always current flowing in some manner through a wire, or leakage in for example a transistor, but overall the question is YES or NO. MAYBE is not going to always be beneficial.

Philosophy in its core is irrelevant to making your Car engine run. Or having a car or a TV. As a doctor, Carnage understands that there is no philosophy that is going to stop Gravel Pits loss of life when he is in dire need of saving his life. You need to get in there and do Triage. But if you think about it, he would have been better off dead if you use Existential nihilism as the philosophical theory that life has no intrinsic meaning or value. Therefore, you have to accept that as doctors, the only reason why the medical profession exists it to make a profit. Or, give service so that everyone accepts the illusion that life is indeed valuable. BUT AT THE SAME TIME.. ABORTION?

Existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence. With that kind of logic, why on earth would there be and EARTH? Why do cells replicate? If the theory of life always finds a way to exist, then why on earth is it so?

I’m not trying to make the point that as a single person, you are in fact a part of something much greater. What I am saying is that the notion of the notion of nothing matters is in itself a self cancelation.

You Can’t move a rock if there is no rock to move. You can not care if there is no caring. And you can not say that any train of thought has no reason. Its stupid.

I know.. I don’t talk like John Doe, Or have ANY chops to keep up with even the likes of some of you, but either I am fooled, or You guys are in denial that you matter.

Whatever it is, I’m glad it keeps you busy. It’s a fun EMOTIONAL EXERCISE.

All I saw here was One great guy making a GREAT POINT. And others trying to ride on the coattails just like always. Sorry, but that’s what I see. Maybe I am indeed blind, but I’m not going to swallow for a second that you as a human have no reason to exist. If that was true, then you would not be born with the mind you have to understand the challenges of philosophy.

No meaning to life? Live what you preach or stop being disingenuous as this can be Harmful or fatal to those that do not understand what existence or in fact reality even is. Or do nothing since it really does not matter right?

In closing, This is a Jerk off session for people who want to look smug. My Opinion. And I stand behind it. Unlike some that have wavering “It can be all” opinions. Sure. IT CAN BE ALL . But that’s not going to put gas in your car. Food in your stomach, and keep you healthy or turn on a lightbulb.

Most people make judgments based on rationalization about people they have no idea about. They do not take into account anything but their own personal experiences and Prejudice.

FYI, I know I don’t make much sense, but I’m not going to pretend I do by using some high grade skills of mind manipulation to get there.

I.E, NO Woman’s masters degree ever got a mans Dick hard. And I don’t think anyone took TFM’s HomeBrew advice on that.

You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

iMickey writes: Existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence. With that kind of logic, why on earth would there be and EARTH? Why do cells replicate? If the theory of life always finds a way to exist, then why on earth is it so?
All I saw here was One great guy making a GREAT POINT. And others trying to ride on the coattails just like always. Sorry, but that’s what I see. Maybe I am indeed blind, but I’m not going to swallow for a second that you as a human have no reason to exist. If that was true, then you would not be born with the mind you have to understand the challenges of philosophy.

Just because consciousness and complexity exist, does not to me, mean there is some great over-riding external Purpose to it. We certainly innately seek to avoid pain, seek pleasure, food, and comfort — biological drives — the base of the pyramid of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, if you will. As conscious beings, we define our own purpose beyond that — the self-actualization at the top of the pyramid.

I exist because my parents wanted to have a child. In my case that is the only reason. I see no evidence for some great ‘plan’. They enjoyed life enough, despite its hardships, to bring another life — my life — into existence.

I’m certainly not trying to be smug — I’m no philosopher — my expertise is in a narrow technical engineering discipline. I certainly prescribe to some aspects of ‘stoicism’, such as the quote I posted from Seneca — your opinion of what happens to you impacts your mental state. Let’s say I lose my job. I can give up and blame others, turn to alcohol, become depressed. Or I can regard it as a slight setback. Now, you might consider that ‘positive thinking’ or something else. But that is how I try to live the quote I posted from Seneca. This doesn’t mean I rigidly adhere to one particular form of philosophical stoicism.

I also have a separate question for Carnage that seems pertinent. Why did you choose to become a doctor?

[Dark KenshiParticipant 2132]

narwhal wrote:

Those are just 3 options MGTOW pick, but I don’t think going MGTOW leads to these directions by default.
stoicism: the endurance of pain or hardship without a display of feelings and without complaint.
This honestly sounds more blue pill to me. It’s what a man does when he marries a woman and/or takes all the abuse and never questions whether this fair equality. The way I see it a MGTOW will acknowledge that marry women or what have you a raw and chose not to endure the pain or hardship at all, much less bother displaying feelings about it.

This is a misconception that is far too common in Stoicism.
If you can’t control, it is none of your problems, so ZFG… Why complain about something you give no f~~~s to?
You endure the hardships that life throws at you, instead of SEEKING hardships. Women is a hardship that you CHOOSE to endure, or not. And if you do not want to endure it, that is fine. Many stoics said that you SHOULD NOT, for WILLINGLY doing so is a waste of your time, so why bother?

In my opinion, Stoicism is one of the reddest pills you can swallow. It is the acceptance that life is a cesspit of mud and s~~~, and the only way to change it is by leading through example, by being virtuous and by exposing (and fighting) the vices everywhere you find them, specially in yourself.
No reason, nor need, to be p~~~ed because of things you cannot control or change.

"Young was I once, I walked alone, and bewildered seemed in the way; then I found me another and rich I thought me, for man is the joy of man." Odin, Hàvamàl, stanza 47.

[CarnageParticipant 22113]

FrankOne wrote:

iMickey writes: Existential nihilism suggests that a single human or even the entire human species is insignificant, without purpose and unlikely to change in the totality of existence. With that kind of logic, why on earth would there be and EARTH? Why do cells replicate? If the theory of life always finds a way to exist, then why on earth is it so?All I saw here was One great guy making a GREAT POINT. And others trying to ride on the coattails just like always. Sorry, but that’s what I see. Maybe I am indeed blind, but I’m not going to swallow for a second that you as a human have no reason to exist. If that was true, then you would not be born with the mind you have to understand the challenges of philosophy.

Just because consciousness and complexity exist, does not to me, mean there is some great over-riding external Purpose to it. We certainly innately seek to avoid pain, seek pleasure, food, and comfort — biological drives — the base of the pyramid of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, if you will. As conscious beings, we define our own purpose beyond that — the self-actualization at the top of the pyramid.
I exist because my parents wanted to have a child. In my case that is the only reason. I see no evidence for some great ‘plan’. They enjoyed life enough, despite its hardships, to bring another life — my life — into existence.
I’m certainly not trying to be smug — I’m no philosopher — my expertise is in a narrow technical engineering discipline. I certainly prescribe to some aspects of ‘stoicism’, such as the quote I posted from Seneca — your opinion of what happens to you impacts your mental state. Let’s say I lose my job. I can give up and blame others, turn to alcohol, become depressed. Or I can regard it as a slight setback. Now, you might consider that ‘positive thinking’ or something else. But that is how I try to live the quote I posted from Seneca. This doesn’t mean I rigidly adhere to one particular form of philosophical stoicism.
I also have a separate question for Carnage that seems pertinent. Why did you choose to become a doctor?

Do you really need a reason? I like science, biology, chemistry, but you also have to think about €€, and well a biologist… Anyway that is the wrong question, the right question is, why it is a mistake, why i dont recommend anyone to be a doctor if you have a shred of humanity in you.

Medicine is a bussiness nothing else and me? Well im the guy who cleans the bathroom.

That is what p~~~ me off, im just a well trained consierge, nothing else.

When i was young i was naibe, i didnt knew of human nature, i though “not everyone is like that” but i was wrong, everyone is like that, is just how people is, im like that, you are like that, tfm is like that. Everyone is just… People.

My job has become unvearable, im trying to save the life of those that try to enslave, kill me, use me and abuse me, and all carnage says is LET THEM DIE.

To those following me, be careful, I just farted. Men those beans are killers.

[iMickey503Participant 12465]

Just asking the question of why a person chose to be a doctor, is a lot like saying “Who Hurt you” if you think about. Again , PLEASE BE BLUNT. Do not hold back your opinions. I’m not going to get my FEE FEE’s hurt. And I notice that some of you are holding back, DO NOT DO THAT.
By doing that, you are not being polite. Respect is earned. But in that same frame of thought, you can’t have respect for someone if you hold back your criticism.

So many people think that those that give you a no bulls~~~ hard truth are disrespecting you. That FEMALE LOGIC. Get that s~~~ out of your head.

Its actually my problem with racism. If someone hates you, they must be telling you something is wrong with you. If you are indeed better then them, then whatever they say does not effect you. Try calling a white guy a cracker, and he will just go out and by stock in Nabisco.

Same thing with Mexicans. What are you going to do say Wet Backs? Well, at least his sweat is from working, you got it from walking up stairs you fat puggy f~~~er.

Same thing with Asians. Indians etc. The only people who complain are people about words hurting them are that they have taken to a victim mentality. Instead of being Rocky Balboa, they want to be Captain Sweden.

One last thing to note. For all this “Knowledge” we have about women. Some of you are clueless on how men work. Not you Frank. Sorry, but engineers don’t really think Abstract all that much. Kind of like a personality thing. Just like it takes a special snowflake to do a cops job everyday. I hate to say it. I really do. But I know there are cops that are good. And is sucks, cuz they have a tough choice. Do what is right, or do what you can get away with. Still, you pick your rate, you pick your fate.

Same thing that goes with being a doctor.

I don’t think I ever told anyone this, but I really wanted to be a counselor. I mean I wanted so bad to make the world a better place.

But do you know what happened? While in High school I saw a full out glimpse of what women were capable of doing. And what they would do just to live a lifestyle they wanted. And if MONEY was their prime priority, they would take it.

Remember that Lifetime movie where the dad was f~~~ing his daughters and got one Pregnant? Well, let me be frank. Women will do ANYTHING to keep the lifestyle or image that they have. As long as the money is flowing, they will do whatever and accept whatever situation they are in. Not only that but you have to understand that women are actually never going to admit that they would take comfort over security.

This also goes if you are in the medical profession. I wonder how many times a doctor has faced the paradox of all the women he knows and all the women he works with and see’s as a patient, then see’s them for what they are, but for some reason can’t seem to see that the woman HE is with is not different. That kind of s~~~ f~~~s your head up. You are smart enough to be a doc, but can’t see what’s right in front of you.

Doctors are a different breed of people. If they f~~~ up, they feel it deep inside. And they happen to be very proud of themselves. (Not all, but many are) You don’t just go do heart surgery for the money. Even Plastic surgeons get dazed by this. That one guy talked about a old high school friend that is sad with his life and he makes well into a million a year.

Thing is, you come to the medical field all sky high and cloud 9. but overtime, there is nothing to be happy about. You know those Doctors without boarders? Tons of Pediatricians go off and do that. Why? Cus for once in their lives, what they are doing is not only Valued beyond approach, they are essentially actually able to Practice MEDICINE. Not bill insurance. Not come up with fancy codes to have them pay for s~~~. Not tell fat people that candy is going to kill them. Nope. They get to deal with Nasty s~~~ like kids having worms and maggots grow inside their wounds. These kids did not get a rash on their face from eating Cheetos. THOSE KIDS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

And when the Doc yells at mom telling her to stop doing something. The response is “ABU DABU, or Yes Doctor”

There is no mom screaming that she need her kid to get more ear infection med she never gives to her kids on time etc. Those 3rd world s~~~ eater type people listen. You can colonize your mind all you want. But its not going to help you with your Endometriosis. You go there and you feel that you actually did something. You helped. Not harmed that day.

Even better is that you understand why you are needed. You feel powerful knowing that all that hard work you did really made a difference. That little girl or boy is never going to forget you. Your touch and your care MEANT SOMETHING. And.. you get a TON OF BLOW JOBS! And a free trip. And for a short amount of time, you feel on top of the world.

But then you come back. Deal with people and WOMEN ESPECIALLY that f~~~ing think they own you. They demands from you and treat you like you don’t know what you are talking about. You can’t say the blunt truth, and if you do, out the door you go.

Children are one thing. Imagine dealing with WOMEN. Every f~~~ing thing is a lie. They never tell you the truth and just blame you for anything. And btw, if you think about how many of these women they treat happen to be people they know or have seen around in public? You get that feeling of dread after a while. You know that the only reason she is there is that you are going to give her pills.

You know its not right, but you better do it. And those that need things, you can’t do s~~~ to help them. And if you do, they stab you in the back if they need to or can.

You are told about ethics, then you find out there is nothing ethical about medicine. You quickly find out that those that are willing to sell out on their ethics are the ones that get the promotions.

It does puzzle me that he does not start doing work for a company like Acumed making synthetic body parts. (Prosthetic) or collaborating with out of state medical organizations for a nice PHAT paycheck. All Tax free of course since its a Grant given for research.

And did I mention that the more good you do, the less people appreciate you and the more people take advantage of you?

Did I mention that your wife is just going to parties JUST to see who she can f~~~ around with to get up the ladder? nOT LIKE YOU HAVE TIME FOR KIDS, BY THE TIME YOU GET HOME YOUR WIFE ALREADY WENT THROUGH A SET OF c BATTERIES. And the best part is?

You could change her into a nice submusive vegetable. But you don’t You know… ETHICS AND S~~~.

You are all alone. If you have been falsely accused of RAPE, DV, PLEASE let all men know about the people who did this. http://register-her.net/web/guest/home

[Gravel PitParticipant]

Y’all crack me up. Good threads, good responses. Love y’all. Happy Solstice

[CarnageParticipant 22113]

Hahaha, a joke, what is the hardest part of a vegetable you can eat?
The wheelchair.

To those following me, be careful, I just farted. Men those beans are killers.

[FrankOneParticipant 1417]

iMickey: The reason I asked Carnage why he chose to become a doctor is because it speaks to meaning and purpose, and relates to the discussion about nihilism. I would say it also speaks to an evolution of sorts, from hopeful idealism in youth, to jaded nihilism in middle age after decades of dealing with reality — a common journey — at least, that’s how I read it. As for being blunt, go right ahead, I’m just engaging in the discussion and won’t have hurt feelings if you disagree with me.

As for the TYPICAL character traits of policeman, sure, MANY are authoritarian. And certainly, for Engineers, many are more interested in THINGS and how they work, than they are in people. And many are loners. I’d say that describes me well, but still it’s a generalization. I’d say their thinking is often abstract and often mathematical, though usually NOT in relation to how the MIND works, or psychology.

And sure, many doctors have god complexes, but these are generalizations — we’re all INDIVIDUALS.

And did I mention that the more good you do, the less people appreciate you and the more people take advantage of you?

I’ve known people who work for non-profits, volunteers and paid staff. They get SOME recognition, but the nature of our culture is to give attention to celebrities more than do-gooders.

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