The downfall of comics

[Grim-Participant 454]

@phoenix

I mainly watch One Piece for the fights, but yeah, the plot is terrible. My only point about bringing that up is that anime such as One Piece, have so many good male role model characters out there, that even a children’s show does it better than most western media aimed at men today.

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Personally, and I guess I will yet again take a less popular view here, but I don’t mind if they do alternate universe things where they change race, sex/gender, etc… of characters, so long as you can have the originals. I wouldn’t even mind, for example, Ghostbusters, where there is another Ghostbusters with an all woman cast in there… What I DO mind is you do it as a reboot and do it for the name of social justice, to try to score points for an agenda. Like, I am going from Meh with new Ghostbusters movie when they go ahead and and say they will have the original cast making cameos… BUT they aren’t going to be their original characters? It is like you want to do a mindwipe and make it like the old never existed? Really? Say they do Ghostbusters, and the women characters end up doing the work, because the old characters are retiring, or something. I will judge it on its own merits, if that.

That is probably the horrible part is a retcon where the past is totally destroyed for the name of an agenda. I have no room for that.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

Personally, and I guess I will yet again take a less popular view here, but I don’t mind if they do alternate universe things where they change race, sex/gender, etc… of characters, so long as you can have the originals. I wouldn’t even mind, for example, Ghostbusters, where there is another Ghostbusters with an all woman cast in there… What I DO mind is you do it as a reboot and do it for the name of social justice, to try to score points for an agenda. Like, I am going from Meh with new Ghostbusters movie when they go ahead and and say they will have the original cast making cameos… BUT they aren’t going to be their original characters? It is like you want to do a mindwipe and make it like the old never existed? Really? Say they do Ghostbusters, and the women characters end up doing the work, because the old characters are retiring, or something. I will judge it on its own merits, if that.

I am glad I am not the only one that feels this way.

I have been thinking of replying to this thread, and I will.

From the first pictures, down.

Wonder Woman. No excuse, her character, her amazons, and attitude has been the tread setting of misandry in comics for over half a century. It is bigotry and it is not really call.

Thor. The problem was the way that comic has been handled. Until the reveal, everyone was upset because someone got the hammer, and they were worried that just some SJW was now wielding the hammer. When it turned out that it was Jane Foster, half the fan base was happy, the other half was okay with it.

For decades, we have known Jane has been worthy to wield the hammer. Now, she gets her chance.

Ironically, if those of the Marvel reality know it is Jane Foster that had the hammer, most of them would be okay it. Even most of the Asgard like Jane, as a person.

The time displaced X-men. Everyone agrees that young Jean has her moments. But, that is the most interesting coming out of the closet, I have ever scene, with the storyline going into X-men 700. Where it is young Bobby that came out first, the older Bobby.

And for the record, I found that bringing the original five X-men to the future, which is the present, to be the best thing the X-men franchise has done in years.

The Wolverine and Hercules kiss. I remember this storyline. It is a good Exile’s storyline.

Hercules is from ancient Greece, and Wolverine has lived long enough to try everything once.

Also, that reality’s Wolverine is a mutate President of the U.S. Given everything, the homosexual romance is likely the least strangest aspect about them.

Sam Wilson as Captain America. While Bucky was there first. I always felt that Sam was more like Richard Grayson. And he is worthy to be Captain America. Given everything Sam has been the Marvel storylines, home being Captain America is fine.

Ms. Marvel. I feel she is getting all those awards for the wrong reasons. PC reasons. When the comic has some of the best art and writing I have seen in years. Very sharp character development and plots. With interesting, well rounded characters.

Also, everything seemed to have missed one very important part about Kamala. She doesn’t hide her face. She is not a traditional muslim. She is a modern girl.

A muslim superhero that is a woman, whom does not hide her face. This gives me a laugh everyone I think about it.

The two images of Batgirl.

First one, I feel that reintroducing James Gorden Jr was an interesting idea. It ties in well with Batman Year One, where Bruce saved James as a baby.

And the original storyline to James’ villainy was brilliant. James is likely one of the most scariest Batman villains to date. Except for maybe the Joker. And that is debatable.

James is a born psycho. No empathy, nor conscience. He is a genius. He does not wear a costume. He can blend into a crowd and he knows this. This made James much more dangerous because he is not doing it to great a show, but to commit an act of horror that no one will see coming, until it is to late.

Given all teenage girls have smartphones, if she didn’t have one, I would be surprised.

I have no problems with women and non-white characters leading stories. My problem is when those characters are used to bash men, whites, or white men.

Most of the characters listed in the original post were done writing.

Honestly, my favorite anime is Black Lagoon, which is very female dominated series. But, the series is done right. It is very anti-politically correct, and there is not “sisterhood” between the women in that series. The women in that series are not victims. And while they are the first to admit how screwed up they are, they are just trying to live their lives, no matter how messed up they are.

On a side note to Jane Foster. I really hope that Natalie Portman reprises her role as Jane Foster in The Infinity War movies. I would really hope one of the things at the end of that movie series would be Jane gets Thor’s hammer. Because the Star Wars jokes alone, of Padme finally having the ability to have a word with Vader, would be worth it.

[Jan SobieskiParticipant 28791]

Given all teenage girls have smartphones, if she didn’t have one, I would be surprised.

Pandering to the chicks. Ok she has the latest tech. Is she working or is she being a chick.

omg,omg, that’s so and so or is she the kick ass superhero. I actually prefer the less hyper sexuallized version but either be a girl or be a super hero. pick one.

Love is just alimony waiting to happen. Visit mgtow.com.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

Jan Sobieski wrote:

omg,omg, that’s so and so or is she the kick ass superhero. I actually prefer the less hyper sexuallized version but either be a girl or be a super hero. pick one.

The (Mayday) Spider-girl series did a good job of that. And the spiritual successor to that comic, Spider-Gwen, is also doing an okay job on the matter. Neither Mayday, nor Gwen, are sexualized. Yes, they have problems, but they are not jerks about it.

[TheBardParticipant 974]

All of those examples given, except for 2, were all Marvel which isn’t surprising. The writer for Wonder Woman who wrote that mansplaining line is no longer writing the comic and which the exception of Batgirl DC does not cater to the SJW crowd. Yeah I know there is the Supergirl show, but really it just has too much “I don’t need help because I’m a girl” s~~~ but we all know that women don’t like flawed characters. Marvel on the other hand is so guilty that they would be serving multiple life sentences lol. Remember feminists hate the Killing Joke because Joker shoots Barbra yet not only was that scene included in Arkham Knight, but DC is giving us an animated Killing Joke movie this year. Marvel would never do something like that.

Grim- wrote:

And even in white knight-ish media such as One Piece

How is One Piece white knight-ish? I know not everyone likes the plot, but I have never heard it been called that before lol.

Jan Sobieski wrote:

Does anyone have data on their sales. Is this SJW crap affecting the bottom line?

Ehh it is kind of hard to tell because sales data we see is only physical copies sold. It does not take into account digital sales which are growing plus many popular series have issues come in Loot Crate which are included in the overall sales data. However you can see from Marvel sales charts that this s~~~ seems to be affecting them more. Also through anecdotal evidence you get the sense that both Marvel and DC are down sales wise, but for different reasons. There have been people who own comic book shops posting on sites saying how their orders are down and many people are not happy with the direction Marvel is going and not buying their books. As for DC people seem to like books that have more of a pre Flashpoint vibe or just don’t like the way many books went with the DC You line initiative that started back in June 2015. I know at the comic book store I go to they do well in DC, but do not sell a lot of Marvel because of how the company treats their books. When the previews came out for the All New All Different Marvel Now I looked over it which 2 different employees and they were not thrilled and mentioned how their Marvel sales would be going down because they knew many people were not going to be buying the new books.

I think the big 2 are doing fine, just with comic prices being 2.99-3.99 per issue and always continuing people are waiting for trades for many books as well as switching to digital to save space and buy when they want to since digital does go down in price after a month or 2.

[BeerParticipant 11832]

I’m totally cool with female super heroes, but what p~~~es me off is the recasting of super heroes that have been around longer than I’ve been alive…like female Thor or black Johnny Storm. Why not just come up with something new or expand upon lesser known or secondary characters? I’d pay to go see a movie if it was centered around a female from Asgard in the Thor universe, or I’ll definitely be going to see the Black Panther movie when he gets his solo movie and I’m pretty excited to see him in action in Civil War…but female Thor or black Human Torch…no thanks…I’ll boycott those.

[sidecarParticipant 35837]

Marvel and DC have finally found a way to stop online comic piracy: Producing comics nobody even wants to steal.

Seriously, I wouldn’t even torrent this s~~~.

[Jim01Participant 6678]

I do feel for all the comic book fans on here as your hobby is being destroyed to cater to people who shouldn’t be reading them in the first place or should accept that they are coming into to something so should accept them for what they are rather than expecting them to change (women to a tee)

Films, comics and now gaming….all being ruined

and just a bitch about Gears of War 4 – the originals were violent, testosterone fuelled fun but the main art being released for GOW 4 is of a woman soldier so it is pretty predictable where the franchise is going

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

Faust For Science wrote:

I am glad I am not the only one that feels this way.

I have been thinking of replying to this thread, and I will.

I do have issue with retcon as canon and an attempt to totally wipe a past form away. I am not saying revise and improve, but replace. That does no service to the fans of the series. Doing a what-if offshoot is a different animal, which I don’t mind.

I like comic but am not much of a reader. I like to know what the creator has in mind when doing anything, like what happened with Lobo, for example.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[JollyMisanthropeParticipant 3356]

Just trying to make more money by pandering. These assholes don’t give a damn. It’s not like comic book stories are new anymore. Same old s~~~ recycled with a different set of characters.

I miss the 80’s where this bulls~~~ was nowhere to be found. Glad I was a kid during that time. The cartoons didn’t suck and didn’t have a PC brainwashing message.

The Children of Doom... Doom's Children. They told my lord the way to the Mountain of Power. They told him to throw down his sword and return to the Earth... Ha! Time enough for the Earth in the grave.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

I do have issue with retcon as canon and an attempt to totally wipe a past form away. I am not saying revise and improve, but replace. That does no service to the fans of the series. Doing a what-if offshoot is a different animal, which I don’t mind.

I agree.

Some of the examples in the first post are not really that PC, and they are not new.

I feel most people are okay with Jane Foster being the new Thor. That is not a new idea. The What If issues of if Jane found the hammer instead of Donald is a few decades old and it was a well received story. It is just the way Marvel went about dragging out who the new Thor was that was the problem.

Also, besides being a muslim, the current Ms Marvel is a likable fangirl. And she is the sqeeling geeky type fangirl, not the arrogant condescending fangirl. Half the time that series is a funny parody of itself in good way.

When I look at a story, in any format, I look for well written, well thought out stories, plots and characters. I don’t care what the background of a character is if the character in question is well written with proper motivations for their beliefs and actions.

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

I like comic but am not much of a reader. I like to know what the creator has in mind when doing anything, like what happened with Lobo, for example.

Flashpoint and the New 52 was a complete, messy cluster f~~~, FUBAR mistake.

There is no other way to explain that.

They didn’t even do a proper retcon. They did a half-ass joke of a retcon.

And don’t even get me started on Spider-man retcons. From that they did to 616 Gwen Stacy having kids with Norman Osborn (every time Marvel retells Gwen’s story, they keep killing that poor girl, and remaking her life worse), to One More Day.

That being said, I feel Spider-Gwen is be one of the better comics to be created in that last few years. It is a nice flip of the script of the Spider-man story. It is not an opposite reflection, but a different path with different characters and situations.

JollyMisanthrope wrote:

I miss the 80’s where this bulls~~~ was nowhere to be found. Glad I was a kid during that time. The cartoons didn’t suck and didn’t have a PC brainwashing message.

Actually, I remember that 1980’s. And when it came to political correctness in comics, the 1980’s was a lot worse than now. In the 1980’s Marvel tried to pander to every demographic and they bankrupted themselves by doing so.

And the 1980’s had some of the most feminist set of cartoons, and most girly-girl cartoons ever created.

[TheBardParticipant 974]

Flashpoint and the New 52 was a complete, messy cluster f~~~, FUBAR mistake.

Ehh I would have to partly disagree. Superman desperately needed a reboot as even since Geoff Johns left Action Comics the Superman line went to complete s~~~. There was that awful New Krypton era that lasted for over a year with Action Comics and Superman having different characters, Luthor being the star of Action Comics from issue 890-899, and Superman “Grounded” lasting for a whole year in Superman. The only good Superman stories from 2009-2011 were Secret Origin, Earth One vol 1, and Action Comics 901-904.

I feel like better continuity should have been established at the start. We had Action taking place 10 years in the past, the first arc of Justice League taking place 5 years in the past, books like Teen Titans weren’t being clear right away if any other Teen Titan books ever happened, Batman seemed to have all the important parts stay in tact, and Green Lantern basically was the one book that wasn’t rebooted lol.

That being said, I feel Spider-Gwen is be one of the better comics to be created in that last few years. It is a nice flip of the script of the Spider-man story. It is not an opposite reflection, but a different path with different characters and situations.

Spider-Gwen is the only Marvel book I am getting at this point. My only complaint is the art as I would prefer a more serious look like how she was drawn in the Spider-verse storyline.

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