Satanism is it devilworship or nonconformity

[J.D SilvernailParticipant 383]

Most people believe that christian propaganda about how Satanists worship the devil but the truth is that it is about individualism and nonconformitty. Anyone who has bothered to look at the Church of Satan website knows that Satanists don’t even worship the devil.
They worship themselves which actually is a great way of living. The majority of Satanists don’t believe that God or the devil exist.

I'm married to the game,but she broke her vows.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

 

I already knew all this.  I can be frank with you simply because you are a “god” who is above all us peons.  And because you are a “god” I expect you to be more intelligent than me and/or outwit what I am about to say.

Are you really thinking for yourself when you are following the dictations of others?

You talk about self worship, but half the issues “self worshippers” deal with are caused by others who follow the same philosophy.  So you can bash feminists, not that you directly have, but they are following the same ideology you are.  Why view them as “wrong”?

Or better yet, the Christians “do as thou wilt”, when they acknowledge their God.  No one is forcing them.  Why view them as in the wrong?

the truth is that it is about individualism and nonconformity.

If one is trying to be an individual, like everyone else, are they conforming?

The majority of Satanists don’t believe that God or the devil exist.

For something that doesn’t exist, they sure do spend a lot of time talking about it.  It is a reactive philosophy that cannot get by on its own merit.

 

Now, “god” give me your response.  “Enlighten” me from my “darkness”.  Why should I listen to you?  Convert me o knower of truth.

[Anonymous 2]

The Church of Satan is an elitist / humanist organization that uses the imagery of Satan as a symbol, nothing more. People that actually worship the devil are Christian believers by definition, while in Satanism most people are atheist or  gnostic. It does shoot itself in the foot with the nonconformity angle, but many Satanic principles are pretty MGTOW.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

People that actually worship the devil are Christian believers by definition, while in Satanism most people are atheist or  gnostic.

In regards to Christianity this is untrue.   I don’t understand what angle you are coming from so I will let you provide the first “proof” for your point.  In regards to Satanism being atheist or agonistic this is also untrue.  Satanism is self worship, it is about deification of ones own will as that of God.  They believe they are God.  It is a philosophy full of contradictions, lacks reason (but claims to use it), provides poor evidence, and actually causes most of the problems we as MGTOW have to deal with.   It is a reactionary philosophy that is incapable of sustaining itself on its own terms and principles.  It has no regards to truth in any form, but lowers man to nothing more than an animal in all respects not just some.

 

Satanic principles are pretty MGTOW.

Satanism is Satanism, MGTOW is MGTOW.   Members of MGTOW have a wide variety of beliefs.   I have acknowledged this on another thread, but their are a minority of Satanists in MGTOW.  There are also a minority of Christians in MGTOW.  Everyone else is just trying to understand the issues with feminist culture.

[J.D SilvernailParticipant 383]

Dude we have rules that animals and feminists don’t have.

I'm married to the game,but she broke her vows.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Dude we have rules that animals and feminists don’t have.

You are going to have to try a lot harder than that if you want a conversation/debate/conversion story/etc.   I am not saying this to be an asshole, but do you even know what you are talking about?

Explain how/why/etc, because I have studied and glanced over a lot of philosophies, Satanism included, and I cannot take it seriously.

[Anonymous 42]

J.D Silvernail wrote:

They worship themselves which actually is a great way of living. The majority of Satanists don’t believe that God or the devil exist.

listen to your self….”They worship themselves which actually is a great way of living”

Feminists worship them selves; ask men it that’s a great way of living?

MGTOW is not self worship! We’re here helping others because we have compassion for them, the nightmares they (we) suffer, the lost sanity, and their (our) torn hearts. Self worship is a feminist, a gynocentric church if you will. LOOK AT ALL THE DESTRUCTION! Selfishness is different than self worship, selfishness is the preservation of one’s self. Self worship is placing one’s self ABOVE ALL ELSE, ABOVE ALL OTHERS, It’s a dangerous and deadly practice, just like feminism, it leads to death!

[John DoeParticipant 743]

August Comte was a philosopher with a similar belief set.  Look him up.  He promoted the worship of women.

Then you have Aleister Crowley which literally enjoyed being f~~~ed in the ass.

Neitzche, who had a branch off version of this philosophy, ended up losing his mind and became a raving madman.  His last moments, if I remember correctly, were hugging a horse and saying “I love you.”

Anton Lavey, the founder of the Church of Satan (US Branch), is “rumored” to renounce his own faith at the time of death.

 

These are just some of the philosophers who were involved in this stuff.  That is if you want to look at the philosophers themselves and not the argument.

If you want to philosophize about the philosophy, I would recommend you come back better armed.

 

[Anonymous 5]

To note: that people who look for Satan always find it even when they are so convince there is no such thing. Let me say I have met some weird people here in “good ol’ not the bad guy Canada” and let me tell you the “freaky” is out there. Just do yourself a favour and don’t explore the subject. “Hes” just a p~~~ed off slave.

 

This is the area for random stuff on MGTOW so be easy on me I wish that I could be blind dumb and convinced that the everythings OK you wanna swap brains? Id love to be a dumb c~~~ who thinks CBC is the voice of truth etc… Its a crime that I have seen the things “we have” (your out there) I wish every day I was stupid, and blind cause thats bliss – but our souls forbid it.

 

[Anonymous 2]

John Doe wrote:

People that actually worship the devil are Christian believers by definition, while in Satanism most people are atheist or gnostic. In regards to Christianity this is untrue. I don’t understand what angle you are coming from so I will let you provide the first “proof” for your point.

In order to actually worship Satan one must believe in him first. In order to believe in Satan one must acknowledge the existence of God, which makes one a monotheist. I guess a Jew also believes in the same Satan, and Muslims know the devil by a different name. I should have said “mono-theistic by definition” now that I think of it.

Since Laveyan Satanists do not believe in God or Satan as such, and has no appeal to a theist, most Laveyan Satanists are atheist, or gnostic at best.

 

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Anonymous wrote:

Since Laveyan Satanists do not believe in God or Satan as such, and has no appeal to a theist, most Laveyan Satanists are atheist, or gnostic at best.

Self worship is still a version of theism, in that it deifies the will.  If you are arguing for atheism or agnosticism on its own terms, we have a thread somewhere around here on it.  You might want to look that up and continue your point from there.

Regardless, Satanism does rely heavily on symbolism in terms of truth.  And through that symbolism in references Judaism/Christianity/Parts of Islam a lot.   It seems fundamentally reactive, in many respects.  Even the name, implies some prior belief in religion etc.  The things it claims man can do without.  What I am trying to say it that is a philosophy that does not explain or give understanding to anything, because it cannot stand on its own two feet without acknowledging someone else.  And that is just one very brief criticism.  There are more.

In Christianity, one can acknowledge God’s infinite power not needing the Devil.  But it cannot be done the other way around.   God can be worshipped or acknowledged on His own terms.  Satan cannot.

One can argue that it is not devil worship.  However it is a religion that acknowledges demons.  Satan is the father of lies, according to the top religions, and one would have to follow his example if one is to follow him “symbolically”.  One essentially would have to put their faith in “lying” if one is to follow this philosophy. It is a philosophy that has no sense and is destructive in nature.

Give one good reason why it is a philosophy worth following.  I am giving you a chance to explain yourself and why.   However the thing is you can’t, or you would have.  It is a philosophy based on rebellion for the sake of rebellion.  However it will never follow its own advice and completely rebel against everything.  Ideologically it won’t rebel against rebellion itself.

You cannot even claim a “truth” in this philosophy.  So you have no cornerstone.  To command one to “do as thou wilt” is contradictory because if one follows that advice they in a sense become followers and are no longer following their own wills.

What exactly are you arguing for and why?

On a personal note, I have known men involved with real life exorcisms.  Stuff flies off the walls/etc.  It is as the movies portray it, but way worse.  I say this as a piece of advice, do not get involved with this group/philosophy.  You will be deceived and end up suffering terribly for it.  Save yourself the trouble and stay away from it.  There is no good that comes from it.

[Vector VikingParticipant 413]

I may be splitting some semantic hairs here, but I never did buy into the title “monotheism” when it came to the big three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). They all have the Good God and the Evil God. The you’ve got the hordes of Angels, Archangels, Seraphim, Cherubim, saints, the trinity, Djinn, golems, holy schnikies! Too many f~~~ing deities! How am I supposed to till the fields and balance my checkbook and learn all this stuff? Maybe we can set aside a place where other people can learn all of this stuff and leave the rest of us to our own interests.

That’ll work out, right?

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Vector Viking wrote:

I may be splitting some semantic hairs here, but I never did buy into the title “monotheism” when it came to the big three Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). They all have the Good God and the Evil God. The you’ve got the hordes of Angels, Archangels, Seraphim, Cherubim, saints, the trinity, Djinn, golems, holy schnikies! Too many f~~~ing deities! How am I supposed to till the fields and balance my checkbook and learn all this stuff? Maybe we can set aside a place where other people can learn all of this stuff and leave the rest of us to our own interests. That’ll work out, right?

You are basically acknowledging a dualistic understanding of the universe.  It is a false premise in that dualism is one law that defines everything, thereby meaning 1 law rules it all.  Dualism, is contradictory in this aspect.  There can only be 1 God/law, logically speaking.  In regards to the “angels/etc” point you made.  They are not deities.  They are what they are: “angels/etc.”  And no one needs to memorize these things to believe in a God.  God is God, he does not need anything or anyone.  Which is why he is God.

In regards to learning what the major religions teach the internet should help.  Or you can just ask your questions on a separate thread and I will do my best to answer them.

[Vector VikingParticipant 413]

Thanks man, but I was just being sarcastic.

[Soul ManParticipant 1856]

John Doe wrote:

On a personal note, I have known men involved with real life exorcisms. Stuff flies off the walls/etc. It is as the movies portray it, but way worse. I say this as a piece of advice, do not get involved with this group/philosophy. You will be deceived and end up suffering terribly for it. Save yourself the trouble and stay away from it. There is no good that comes from it.

First off I would not dare to tempt fate by dabbling in such a philosophy as satanism.  However the subject matter you mention in the quote above does intrigue me and I wish there were a way to take that discussion offline.  I have seen things I cannot explain by known quantifiable rational explanation.

On an unrelated note, what are your thoughts on the subject of Intelligent Design?  I think the subject is not well understood by society at large and largely dismissed as “hooey”.  I realize science requires that any theory be verified and quantified in a laboratory.  However, with ever expanding postulations on the nature of reality, matter, and the universe it seems as if science and physics are beginning to push the known limits right to the doorstep of the Pearly Gates.  Subject matter for a new thread perhaps?

 

 

HISTORY...learn from it, memorize it, DON'T repeat it...

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Soul Man wrote:

I have seen things I cannot explain by known quantifiable rational explanation.

This is a more common societal problem than you think.   I research everything from politics and philosophy to fitness and food.  I have done some research in these subjects too.  But because of the nature of the conversation it can be heavily misinterpreted, so I would not recommend it for a forum.  But that is an opinion.

Soul Man wrote:

On an unrelated note, what are your thoughts on the subject of Intelligent Design? I think the subject is not well understood by society at large and largely dismissed as “hooey”. I realize science requires that any theory be verified and quantified in a laboratory. However, with ever expanding postulations on the nature of reality, matter, and the universe it seems as if science and physics are beginning to push the known limits right to the doorstep of the Pearly Gates. Subject matter for a new thread perhaps?

Philosophically unavoidable.  With that being said, if you want to discuss it.  Just open a new thread and invite me to it.

In regards to this thread, I have observed that Satanism is a subject that does pop up with a minority of MGTOW.  It was a strongly held view by the mods on the old MGTOW forum.  And you can see where that led them.  It is an issue that has to be confronted, so it does not mislead others.

[Soul ManParticipant 1856]

John Doe wrote:

This is a more common societal problem than you think. I research everything from politics and philosophy to fitness and food. I have done some research in these subjects too. But because of the nature of the conversation it can be heavily misinterpreted, so I would not recommend it for a forum. But that is an opinion.

Agree 110% with you there.

John Doe wrote:

Philosophically unavoidable. With that being said, if you want to discuss it. Just open a new thread and invite me to it. In regards to this thread, I have observed that Satanism is a subject that does pop up with a minority of MGTOW. It was a strongly held view by the mods on the old MGTOW forum. And you can see where that led them. It is an issue that has to be confronted, so it does not mislead others.

Agree there too.  I think we are now approaching frontiers in science where the limits of our logic and reason are being seriously challenged.  Personally I don’t see much difference between science and God.  This, in a nutshell, is why Intelligent Design seems to make sense in the context of our paradigm and our limited ability to articulate the intangible which we cannot fully explain with know quantifiable parameters.  But I digress…I will open another thread on the subject of Intelligent Design later tonight when time permits.  Stay tuned….

As for the aforementioned subject matter I would definitely like to have that discussion in private if circumstances permit at some point.  As for satanism I would have never drawn that parallel but then again my paradigm does not center on ego and self.

HISTORY...learn from it, memorize it, DON'T repeat it...

[Anonymous 2]

John Doe wrote:

One essentially would have to put their faith in “lying” if one is to follow this philosophy. Give one good reason why it is a philosophy worth following.  I am giving you a chance to explain yourself and why.  However the thing is you can’t, or you would have.

That is a false assumption. I would not have, because that would not benefit me at all, and if I would, what would keep me from *lying* to you then? The OP is about the difference between devil worship and Laveyan Satanism, and that’s about as far as I am willing to go into the subject at all. If you cannot find anything worthwhile in a philosophy, you are free to adhere to your monotheistic scripture of choice and put your faith into “being lied to” instead.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Anonymous wrote:

The OP is about the difference between devil worship and Laveyan Satanism,

One is interpreted literally, the other metaphorically.  Same end products though.  What else is there to understand?

[J.D SilvernailParticipant 383]

The rulebooks for Lavayan Satanism are on these websites.
http://www.churchofsatan.com/nine-satanic-sins.php
http://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth.php
See it for yourselves.

I'm married to the game,but she broke her vows.

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