Reductio ad Absurdum

[bobphiloParticipant 1772]

Anonymous wrote:

Darksith wrote:

I would have (and have) continued sipping my whiskey, no f~~~s given.

I would have looked at the guy over at the table calling 911 and being all involved about something and thought, hmm, he’s a chalk outline looking for a place to happen.

A woman in distress crying and babbling on and on about her problems means that you HAVE to do something?

If she fell out of her chair thing and began wailing and pleading for help, I would do her the courtesy of stepping over her as I went about my day.

There is a small chance that I would have gone over, on my way out, and gave your white horse a smack on the arse.

Men on here go on and on about how they’ve walked away from society, are sick of the pussy pass and all the privileges women have, but then the second they see a woman “in distress” they are desperate to go and help her, and are busy attacking each other for not “doing enough” or being “selfish”.

This is why men will always fail and nothing will ever change. If it ever truly got to the point that MGTOW had an impact on society, rather than valuing males, the elites would turn around and crank up the shaming on men, and trot out a bunch of women that are “distressed” and demand that men “step up and do something” or they are “selfish”. Society knows it can take males for granted, men will always, always use their resources and efforts for others.

Well not me. I’m gone and am not coming back. MGTOW is self survival, not a group survival, not a popularity contest, not a form of validation or acceptance from other men. It’s men that have had enough and have left, and just swap notes or enjoy each other’s company when they have the time. That is why this isn’t a “movement” and it’s impossible to actually stop, those of us that are gone are gone for good and will stay gone, with or without a label or a forum.

Fine just let some poor helpless senior citizen suffer to feed your selfishness. That is NOT MGTOW. MGTOW is ignoring the games that society plays on men, not letting some poor old soul in need suffer
How would you feel if someone treated your grandmother like that.
This is why people see MGTOW as a bunch of misogynists.
Your contempt for the better parts of society is classic for antisocial personality disorder discussed on another thread.

[DorkShitParticipant 4353]

My biggest issue is the mental thought process with regards to “they have to help”

This statement also has a direct correlation to relationships of marriage and women when people utter it.

The idea that someone “has” to help is always an invalid statement. It is a force statement. If you “have” to do something you have no choice with regards to your actions.

The statement is followed by shaming tactics.

This is an important thing to understand. Force is always wrong. Learn how to know when the application of force is being applied towards you. And, when you are attempting to apply force.

Peace brothers

[Anonymous 3]

This thread is a great example of a difference of opinion between gentlemen. The issue itself is discussed without resort to ad hominem attacks.

As for the situation itself it is rather complicated. My own father, a man from a different generation, used to caution me about helping people and how it could hurt me. As a young idealist I strongly disagreed with him. He said (correctly) that if I was to stop my car to assist someone in an accident, I could very well be implicated in the accident or take legal responsibility for anything wrong that happened, either by assisting or not assisting.

The key here is responsibility. As men we have the ingrained sense that we are responsible for the helpless of society. As strong and resourceful males, it is our JOB do do something.
When s~~~ happens the women scream: isn’t any MEN here that can do something?

But in our days that human responsibility collides with LEGAL LIABILITY.

Just to make the case: if you do not step in you are in no way liable for anything. You just take the heat of some strangers that you will never see again in your life.
If you step in you are now liable to prosecution either for assisting or not assisting. Imagine that the person needs first aid, and you provide it and she dies. Now, are you certified to provide first aid? You are open for a legal action if you are not.
Imagine that you failed to provide first aid, because you are not certified. The person dies anyway and you can try to use that defense in court, when responding for lack of assistance.

But why go so far?

Lets imagine the old lady is bat crazy. As a man steps in to help she starts screaming “dont hurt me!”, “help, thieve!”. For sure there are a bunch of white knights around the corner, with a choir of harpies to incite them against that evil man assaulting an old lady.

You know, even in the old times gentlemen behaved as gentlemen. That is: in an impeccable and appropriate behavior suiting societal norms.

In our society what is the appropriate behavior for men? To relay the responsibility to the proper chain of command!

“For God’s sake, where is the responsible for the establishment!? Good man, do call the authorities to help that poor women!“.

As a white knight myself I have been learning my lesson. Every time I do the right thing for someone, they end up taking advantage of it. Its like people (men and women) have this rule where: if you care, its because you are gaining something. They actually respect more someone else that demands the most from giving them the minimum. They would call it “fair”.

And this is not a new observation.

The Prince by Nicolo Machiavelli

CHAPTER XVII – Concerning Cruelty And Clemency, And Whether It Is Better To Be Loved Than Feared

[…]
Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.

[DorkShitParticipant 4353]

Yes, this is a hot topic for me. I’m only trying to express a warning. This issue is the one I run up against the most in society/public. Especially, with younger men.

I understand wanting to help.

But, as rotten john told me years ago:
We are men.
Our actions have consequences.
Nobody gives a s~~~ about you.
You have to have situational awareness. You can’t go thru life as if it is a fairy tale.
Marriage is only one way you get destroyed.
You never know when or where your destroyer will arise.
Be ever vigilant.

I wish you all well.
Please be careful.

Peace brothers

[Anonymous 3]

When you take the government as your protector and authority, how is it an individual man’s responsibility to protect?

Leaders and protectors are to be obeyed and followed. They are to be considered your superiors. If you do not obey them, you are to be punished for it.

The opposite is an equal. An equal has no responsibility to you, and nor do you have any to them. You are free to ignore them, they have no right to order you, and you can not order them.

You can not both be an equal to someone and also they must have the responsibility to protect you without you obeying them.

All life has an hierarchy. All animals, all governments, everything else. And in human societies, we have roles. Police and law enforcement are tasked with handling those matters, not other men. And the police even take women in their ranks and dress them with authority.

It is in fact illegal to impersonate a police officer and to order someone around. The elites who built modern society do this on purpose, because they know losing that law enforcement authority is a problem. If women and weak men wish to obey and follow superior men, then they must give up this notion of “equality”. Seek a master to protect you if that is what you need. I would in fact protect my slaves, my property, because that is what a master does. But I see no sense in over-riding modern social rules like police and such for a non-family member and non-slave. And of course I don’t have slaves, nor would I wish the burden of owning one.

[AntipathyParticipant 4901]

Issue here, is the nature of the dumb c~~~ hair stylist. Those are the same c~~~s that won’t stop asking their customers “so how is your day going ?”. They are very manipulative and fake, as they are after tips.

As far as wether op should have helped the lady … this is a personal choice. People will react and respond differently to these situations based on personality traits. Maybe the best way to look at it is, the classic MGTOW benefit VS risk analysis. Always remember to protect yourself and YOUR future first, in some cases it’s ok to call emergency services. Others you should let off the hook and take a walk.

This is why going ghostmode is great. Avoiding society as much as possible, lowers the chances of these encounters.

[Faust For ScienceParticipant 22521]

A sign of emotional immaturity is those that ignore what you say, while they demand a immediate answer to their responses, and they will stomp off and pretend you ignored them.

[ShinyParticipant 2307]

bobphilo wrote:

That is NOT MGTOW.

MGTOW go their own way. Some things are indeed not MGTOW, but this is a difference of opinion.

My opinion is that AncientWisdom did the right thing by calling the authorities to help. A white knight would have tried to fix the problem himself. AncientWisdom didn’t ignore the problem, but he didn’t white knight either, imo.

Some see MGTOW as treating men and women the same, just dropping all the privelege and pussy-pass that a woman normally gets. I try to treat old people the same, irrespective of gender. Not every old person is deserving of respect in my eyes – just making it to an old age without dying is not that big of an achievement in our modern world – but a person in genuine need is a person in genuine need. Doing something is humanity.

EDIT:

DorkShit wrote:

If you get involved you are legally involved. How much crazy do you want?

Yah, a first responder is legally required, in this jurisdiction (Sydney) to stay and provide aid til the paramedics come, and you should be careful about wading into such scenarios. But all AnceintWisdom did was make a phonecall.

Good to see you back AW.

[DorkShitParticipant 4353]

Shiny wrote:

But all AnceintWisdom did was make a phonecall.

No, he made a 911 emergency phone call.

Where I live that means there is an emergency that requires a law enforcement officer. You can be held liable for making a non-emergency call.

Everyone was breathing just fine by all accounts and no danger was eminent.

My point is be careful with self righteous indignation. Drink your whiskey and enjoy the view.

Peace brothers

[FrostByteParticipant 19005]

Anonymous wrote:

As a white knight myself I have been learning my lesson. Every time I do the right thing for someone, they end up taking advantage of it.

No good deed goes unpunished.

If you rescue a damsel in distress, all you will get is a distressed damsel.

[AncientwisdomParticipant 6089]

Thanks for the replies. I didn’t state this in my original post, but the elderly lady was crying and said she “NEEDS her medication” and that she was locked out of her home, and she was physically disabled (i.e. confined to a ‘roller-chair’). Now, in retrospect I think the more appropriate thing to do would be to call the local police, rather than 911. Had I been a little less deep into the whiskey, then THAT’S the call I would have made.

Hey CP, nice to read your posts again as well. I haven’t checked in here in about a year. I had a couple of moments this weekend where I ‘let my guard down’, so to speak and needed a dose of the MAN-‘O-SPHERE. Good to read your guy’s words. Perused the forum for quite a few hours.

This place is such a f~~~ing God-send when one needs to realize he’s not the one going insane in this world, but rather the world has gone insane around him. It was so refreshing to read the posts of other like-minded men.

Cheers.

Resident cynic.

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