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Tagged: Protecting Women
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FIDK 4 years, 10 months ago.
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Hello Brothers,
This is the first time I’m posting in these forums so please forgive me if I’m putting this in the wrong place but it seemed fitting with a general philosophy discussion centered around MGTOW. I’m pretty new to this whole MGTOW thing and while I won’t go so far as to say I’m definitely MGTOW, I find the discussion highly enlightening and I agree with a lot of the things MGTOW stand for. I just don’t believe that marriage is completely out of question for me, this is the only reason I won’t outright say I’m MGTOW.
Anyway, I saw this video today and viewing it through the lens of MGTOW it made me question some things. In general, it seems (and correct me if I’m wrong like I said I’ve only been digesting this material for a few months) that MGTOW regard Alpha’s and in general protecting women in a derogatory light. Then I see this video and wonder if the action the man took was right or wrong from a MGTOW perspective. Here is the video if you want to see it:
For those of you who don’t the basic gist is, a man is in a waffle house and he sees another man hit a woman. It’s unknown if he actually knew this women or if it was just some random chick, either way after seeing the woman get slapped he got up and proceeded to shout at the man trying to entice him into a fight. This is what I would call typical Alpha male behavior and I’ve engaged in it myself in the past, it’s just a natural instinct for me personally to try and protect weaker people from stronger people be it man, woman or child. Even looking at this situation through a MGTOW lens I have to agree with the man’s actions and feel I would have done the same and I wanted a veteran MGTOW’s perspective on how they would handle this situation. I’m honestly asking here because so far from what I’ve seen in the MGTOW community I get the feeling people like Sandman, thinkingape and razor would say let it be and I’m not sure I can agree with that. But I could be wrong, maybe they wouldn’t and that’s why I’m asking.
Your thoughts are appreciated.
Tony
After 5 seconds I don’t even want to see that s~~~. I don’t even associate with people like that. Nobody in my life behaves that way, and I don’t either. Who f~~~ing cares really. The situation is entirely avoidable – BY THEM.
Since I don’t even know the back story, I stay the f~~~ out of it.
Like who gives a s~~~?Some OTHER guy hit a woman? I don’t give a s~~~. So why do you? It’s between them.
I wouldn’t be caught dead near a scene like that.The desire to get involved in a scene that’s got nothing to do with you is kinda silly. Let’s say a woman is beating the s~~~ out of a guy. Are you gonna “protect” him? You’d probably laugh inside like everybody else. So why would you “protect” her???
MGTOW isn’t just about “not wanting to get married”.
It’s not just a “logo” or 5 letters that don’t mean anything.
It’s about going your own way and ejecting s~~~ that like from your life.If you feel compelled to “protect women”, then that means you don’t think they can “protect” themselves.
That’s treating women like an inferior. F~~~ that. Women are “equal” remember? She can protect herself. Have a nice day.(Hint: the key phrase in there is “women are equal remember?”. I don’t actually believe that,. But THEY do. Let them fend for themselves.)
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Well I kind of anticipated that response and was asking myself the same question. No, if I saw a woman hitting a man I probably wouldn’t step in. But if I saw a larger man going after a much smaller man I probably would. I don’t know if this is my upbringing or simple male nature but it seems like it’s not so much about protecting women as protecting the weak from those who would bully them.
Equal from a rights stand point doesn’t really apply when you’re talking about physicality right, if some dude weighs a hundred pounds he doesn’t lose the right to vote simply because he can’t beat the s~~~ out of someone who weighs 200 pounds. The two are not intrinsically linked. Similarly if a woman is getting slapped around by some dude, you could really just sit there and watch that and just not care? That mindset is very foreign to me and I don’t understand it. The only explanation you offered is some vague misguided notion that because she’s a woman and believes she is equal in terms of rights that somehow qualifies her to get her ass beat by a dude. And of course repeating yourself in saying that you don’t give a s~~~ and don’t understand why I do (you repeated this numerous times). I can tell you why I do, because I don’t like to see weaker people getting beat up by bigger people who (at least from an outside perspective) don’t deserve it.
Oh and in terms of “Going your own way,” if my way is to not sit back and watch a weaker person get bullied and beat up by a much bigger person is my way, doesn’t that qualify as going my own way? I thought the point of MGTOW was to not participate in Gynocentrism and I don’t see how the man’s actions in this video somehow upset that belief.
This is why I put it in the philosophy section because it seems like a deep question.
We understand each other already. I get your point. I really do. But when think about it carefully, who gives a s~~~ how much you WEIGH or how strong you are? A woman can dial 911 and make sure you’re sleeping in jail TONIGHT – on a f~~~ing WHIM.
And you’re interested in “protecting” that s~~~????
You see my point. And you’re right: “Equal from a rights stand point doesn’t really apply “.
Exactly.
THAT”S why I don’t give a s~~~ about protecting her. Protecting my OWN sovereignty comes first – above all other things. That’s the MGTOW perspective you were asking about. It’s right on the “about” page. It’s not just my response for the hell of it. No good deed goes unpunished, pal. That’s not just a saying. If you think you can step into that scene, be the hero and not do some kind of damage to yourself, you’re mistaken.
Only in a complete skewed reality do you think you are in a position to “protect” her.
She can do more damage to you, no matter HOW big & strong you are.I don’t know if this is my upbringing or simple male nature
Neither. You’ve been SOCIALIZED to think this way. In every facet of life through every fiber, conversation, the media and subtle imagery…. you have been taught “eggs are expensive & sperm is cheap”. She’s a poor helpless “victim”, and your role is to “protect” her even if it means DYING. The entire “system” us set up for you to think like that. They are COUNTING on you to think this way.
Titanic. War. You name it. You’re job is to “protect women” who you think are “weaker” than you. Well, knock yourself out and BE. MY. GUEST.
This is a good part of why you “don’t identify with MGTOW”.
The entire fundamental concept has not been accepted by you.You’re still interested in getting married! A MGTOW knows that’s like legally – and financially – committing f~~~ing suicide.
In both situations, you’re not actually “protecting women”….
You’re doing damage to YOURSELF.If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Ok, I can see where you’re coming from now I guess. I think I have to disagree with you and you’re probably right that’s probably do to programming but I don’t think I could sit back and watch somebody small get bullied and beat up by somebody else. Thanks, this was what I thought the answer would be but I wasn’t sure.
but I don’t think I could sit back and watch somebody small get bullied and beat up by somebody else
Well neither can I. That’s HUMAN. And it’s HUMANE.
Now ask yourself…. are the women you wish to “protect” as humane as YOU?
You don’t even know anything about her or the situation, and you’re willing to protect her.But no woman who doesn’t know you gives a S~~~ about YOU.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.“Well neither can I. That’s HUMAN. And it’s HUMANE.”
Ok, but that contradicts what you said earlier about it being programming. Whether a woman would go out of her way to protect me or give a s~~~ about me is irrelevant to the question, the point isn’t to return some sort of favor or intent, it’s to physically keep a smaller and weaker person from being harmed and bullied by a bigger person.
I’ll put my opinion here, it’s gonna be real quick
1)Bitch has a phone
2)Bitch is in trouble
3)Hopefully said bitch isn’t so retarded that she can’t dial a phone number
4)Bitch calls 911
5)Problem solved
If you want to go get assaulted/maybe stabbed/killed by some dude acting like a monkey because some womyn chose to date a violent douchebag, do so, but I wouldn’t recommend it.It is a common failing of childhood to think that if one makes a hero out of a demon the demon will be satisfied.
I’m Libertarian so my immediate thought process is that police are supposed to solve crime and not prevent it, if a woman’s getting her ass beat or getting slapped around the police aren’t going to show up to stop that from happening but they could show up later and prevent it from happening in the future. This is just as true for a very small man physically unable to protect himself.
I’ll also point out that we don’t know this was her boyfriend, in fact looking at this particular video I’m assuming it wasn’t her boyfriend because I don’t see her in the clip anywhere and usually if it’s a boyfriend their close by.
Nah, it’s “programming” for you to feel compelled to DO something about it. I can witness s~~~ like that and not like it… and still be willing want no part of it. Just like your video, I don’t even want to SEE it. And the fight is between 2 dudes.
I have DE-programmed myself. Understand?
Whether a woman would go out of her way to protect me or give a s~~~ about me is irrelevant to the question,
No it’s not. It’s TOTALLY relevant. I already said thats’ WHY I wouldn’t act.
She doesn’t give a s~~~ about YOU, so it’s perfectly reasonable to not give a s~~~ about HER.In what universe is that irrelevant?
it’s to physically keep a smaller and weaker person from being harmed and bullied by a bigger person
OH yeah? And what exactly are you doing to protect yourself from being bullied by a SMALLER and “WEAKER” person?
(You don’t have to answer that.)
The problem here is you think women need “protecting”. You think they are “smaller and weaker” than you. So are asps and rattlesnakes. But what’s gonna protect you from HER? Look, I understand you don’t agree. This is clearly not be the forum for you. This is a forum for Men Going Their Own Way who don’t need this explained to them.
You’re refusing to accept my answer because I didn’t give you the answer you wanted. Too bad. I know what you wanted to hear. You wanted to hear some s~~~ about “alpha” this and “alpha” that. “NO WAY MAN !!!I WOULD HAVE TOTALLY BEAT THAT MOTHERF~~~ER MAN!!! YOU DON’T F~~~ING HIT A WOMAN EVER, MAN!!! YEAAAAH!!!!! ROCK ON DUDE!!! I’M ALPHA BRO!!!”
F~~~ that.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.I saw this on a local news posting and commented happily on it, because there were women galore saying, “SEE? THAT is how a REAL man is! Protecting women and saying it’s wrong to hit women NO MATTER WHAT!”
I put my two cents in and, of course, had to tell women that it’s equally as bad for women to beat on men. My comment was not well favored, obviously…except by maybe a FEW men. I said how “women shouldn’t abuse either…and I’m not only talking physically. I’m talking emotionally, verbally, financially…you get the idea. Meanwhile, as they do this, they expect to be taken care of by men everywhere and babied.” I immediately got a woman that said “Chris, not ALL women do that. I treat my husband equally. He has a clean home and food to come home to after work. I treat him like a king, as he treats me like a queen!”
Of. Fragging. Course.
Women have no business saying what a “real man” is or what a “real man” does.
Thats’ when you say to her: “what would you know about being a MAN? What would you even know about being HUMAN”.
That will shut her up on the spot.
Bonus: no violence required.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.“Nah, it’s “programming” for you to feel compelled to DO something about it. I can witness s~~~ like that and not like it… and still be willing want no part of it. Just like your video, I don’t even want to SEE it. And the fight is between 2 dudes.I have DE-programmed myself. Understand?”</p>
Yes, I get what you’re saying.
“No it’s not. It’s TOTALLY relevant. I already said thats’ WHY I wouldn’t act. She doesn’t give a s~~~ about YOU, so it’s perfectly reasonable to not give a s~~~ about HER.</p>
In what universe is that irrelevant?”</p>I see it as irrelevant because keeping a weaker person from being harmed or bullied by a stronger person is not a means to an end. I wouldn’t be jumping in in hopes of getting laid, or to be seen as some kind of hero or for some kind of recognition. You jump in to keep them from being harmed. So her feelings regarding me are completely irrelevant because they don’t figure into the equation as to whether or not I’m going to help in anyway.
“OH yeah? And what exactly are you doing to protect yourself from being bullied by a SMALLER and “WEAKER” person? (You don’t have to answer that.) The problem here is you think women need “protecting”. You think they are “smaller and weaker” than you. So are asps and rattlesnakes. But what’s gonna protect you from HER? Look, I understand you don’t agree. This is clearly not be the forum for you. This is a forum for <em style=”box-sizing: border-box;”>Men Going Their Own Way who don’t need this explained to them.
You’re refusing to accept my answer because I didn’t give you the answer you wanted. Too bad. I know what you wanted to hear. You wanted to hear some s~~~ about “alpha” this and “alpha” that. “NO WAY MAN !!!I WOULD HAVE TOTALLY BEAT THAT MOTHERF~~~ER MAN!!! YOU DON’T F~~~ING HIT A WOMAN EVER, MAN!!! YEAAAAH!!!!! ROCK ON DUDE!!! I’M ALPHA BRO!!!” F~~~ that.”
That’s not what I was looking for at all, you’re completely misrepresenting my viewpoint because you disagree with me and I’m not just bending over and accepting your response. As with any philosophical or intellectual conversation if you have a viewpoint then you should be able to back that viewpoint up. The answer your giving when you say “How are you protecting yourself from her” is absolutely valid and makes sense and I can understand why you would say that and where you are coming from. This other nonsense about “she believes she’s equal so she should be able to protect herself” is not. Same as the answer “let the cops handle it,” doesn’t make any sense either.</p>
Also, I like MGTOW and their viewpoints on many issues, from my understanding the point is to refuse to participate in Gynocentrism. I understand that viewpoint and agree with it which is why I joined the forum. I enjoy intellectual conversations with people who are able to carry out an intelligent conversation. The reason I don’t call myself MGTOW is because a lot of people have made it very clear that if you are married you can’t also be a MGTOW and while I have chosen to not get married so far, and have chosen to be single the last four years and will be for the foreseeable future, I don’t accept removing the possibility that that could change sometime in the future. So whatever picture you have of me in your head, whatever it is you think I am based on a very brief interaction online, you may as well remove it because it certainly sounds incorrect based on your last post. I’m clearly not who you think I am if you think that was the response I’m looking for.</p>
I saw this on a local news posting and commented happily on it, because there were women galore saying, “SEE? THAT is how a REAL man is! Protecting women and saying it’s wrong to hit women NO MATTER WHAT!” I put my two cents in and, of course, had to tell women that it’s equally as bad for women to beat on men. My comment was not well favored, obviously…except by maybe a FEW men. I said how “women shouldn’t abuse either…and I’m not only talking physically. I’m talking emotionally, verbally, financially…you get the idea. Meanwhile, as they do this, they expect to be taken care of by men everywhere and babied.” I immediately got a woman that said “Chris, not ALL women do that. I treat my husband equally. He has a clean home and food to come home to after work. I treat him like a king, as he treats me like a queen!” Of. Fragging. Course.
I’m with you on this and this seems to be a common issue that is raised. Women in general expect to be pampered and protected but refuse to reciprocate, and I’m all for letting them deal with their own issues. I just think not everything is black and white and in this particular instance I think the dude handled the situation at least somewhat appropriately by stepping in.
I’ll give you an example of what I mean. This girl I know recently went through a bad break up, she acted like a royal c~~~, kicked the guy out same old story you hear all over the place. She’s also classic in that she’s got like 10 different dudes revolving around her at any given time trying to get in her pants, and she keeps these men on retainer calling on them whenever she needs something. So after the break up she realized what a royal bitch she had been and was looking for a shoulder to cry on. My phone started ringing more, she wanted me to be on the phone with her all the time, finally I told her look I’m not going to be an emotional tampon for you. You created this problem and I have other s~~~ to do. Deal with it. My phone doesn’t ring quite so much anymore and i’m assuming she’s using some other dude as an emotional crutch.
The difference here is that she’s not in any immediate danger of being harmed physically by someone much bigger and stronger than she is. She’s most likely not going to wind up in a hospital on life support as could be the case with a situation like the one in this waffle house.
Women have no business saying what a “real man” is or what a “real man” does. Thats’ when you say to her: “what would you know about being a MAN? What would you even know about being HUMAN”. That will shut her up on the spot. Bonus: no violence required.
This I would agree with.
That’s not what I was looking for at all, you’re completely misrepresenting my viewpoint because you disagree with me and I’m not just bending over and accepting your response.
OK well Im also having fun with you here and GROSSLY over-exaggerating when I said the “IM ALPHA BRO!!!” thing. That’s a key element of humor. Im blowing it way up – on purpose – because I can give you more reasons to not get involved (or give a s~~~) than you can give me to “protect” her.
finally I told her look I’m not going to be an emotional tampon for you.
Well that’s a step in the right direction. If you don’t care about her “feelings” why do you care about “protecting” her from any physical harm?????
You’ve touched on a very important point which I almost made earlier.
What do you think hurts a woman more??
1. A fist to the face?
2. Or being totally ignored?Bruises heal. But abandonment issues are forever.
Ever see The Godfather part 2? Al Pacino hits Diane Keaton so hard he practically comes off the floor. But later in the movie, when she shows up to visit the kids, he keeps his hands in his pockets, doesn’t say a word, he doesn’t even BLINK. He just slowly walks up to the door and closes it in her face. A much more devastating blow than any physical damage.
So if you’re that interested in “protecting women” and will engage in a fist fight for that reason….
Why would you not be willing to be an emotional tampon for her????If you DONT CARE… then you DONT CARE.
So, now, perhaps you understand my original argument better than you think.
If you DON’T CARE… then you DON’T CARE.
So if you’re prepared to get into a fist fight to ‘protect” women you don’t really care about.
What are you doing it for? To prove what a big man you are to OTHER MEN??Not worth it.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.Well that’s a step in the right direction. If you don’t care about her “feelings” why do you care about “protecting” her from any physical harm????? You’ve touched on a very important point which I almost made earlier. What do you think hurts a woman more?? 1. A fist to the face? 2. Or being totally ignored? Bruised heal. But abandonment issues are forever. Ever see The Godfather part 2? Al Pacino hits Diane Keaton so hard he practically comes off the floor. But later in the movie, when she shows up to visit the kids, he keeps his hands in his pockets, doesn’t say a word, he doesn’t even BLINK. He just slowly walks up to the door and closes it in her face. A much more devastating blow than any physical damage. So if you’re that interested in “protecting women” and will engage in a fist fight for that reason…. Why would you not be willing to be an emotional tampon for her???? If you DONT CARE… then you DONT CARE. So, now, perhaps you understand my original argument better than you think. If you DON’T CARE… then you DON’T CARE. So if you’re prepared to get into a fist fight to ‘protect” women you don’t really care about. What are you doing it for? To prove what a big man you are to OTHER MEN?? Not worth it.
No, not to prove how big of a man I am to other men, what is it with you and jumping to conclusions based on absolutely nothing in my statement?
I think short term emotional pain like going through a break up is less severe than potentially long term pain AND emotional pain that can be caused by physical harm. There’s no guarantees that it’s going to end in a smack, it could have kept going until she was laying bleeding to a pulp on the ground. You just don’t know.
I already explained this in a previous post, the point is not that I care what she thinks, what he thinks, what anyone thinks, that’s not who I am at all. I really don’t give a s~~~ what people think about in any capacity, I’m rare in that way. The point is if physical harm is being done to a weaker person by a bigger person, then it’s someone’s duty to step in and stop that. You yourself said that viewpoint was humane, and a human one, you’re just for some reason not willing to go the extra step and stand up for what you believe is right. And I understand the thought process behind you wanting to protect yourself from some legal or physical ramifications that may come from standing up for what you believe in. I can absolutely see why you would take that stance and I can respect that, it’s just not something I’m capable of. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night knowing I could have helped someone avoid physical harm and didn’t.
Not a good idea to be picking fights with people you don’t know. It makes you look like a dick and there’s a good chance that will backfire on you, big time. You could end up seriously injured, dead, or charged with assault.
Also you really don’t know if the woman is using you to enact proxy violence on another man. Which she will walk away from blameless and guiltless, while you will not.
So don’t do that. It’s not worth it.
Rennie’s correct.
Twenty eight years ago, my buddy’s “ex” told him she’d been raped. He shot the guy’s dick off and did two years in prison. Turned out she’d lied.
"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
Rennie’s correct. Twenty eight years ago, my buddy’s “ex” told him she’d been raped. He shot the guy’s dick off and did two years in prison. Turned out she’d lied.
Except that’s not really the same thing. If he walked in while she was being raped and shot the guy trying to stop it, then we would be on equal footing. There’s a difference between stepping in and stopping further violence from occurring and going after someone retroactively to dole out punishment for their behavior. In the example you gave I would absolutely recommend calling the police instead of handling it yourself. But if I’m standing there and a woman is getting raped, there would have to be something seriously deranged about me to not step in and stop a woman from being raped when I’m seeing it with my own eyes. In fact the argument can be made in that instance the person who just watches and does nothing is just as bad as the person who did it.
Sorry to hear about your friend, that sounds horrible.
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