Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Moving beyond alpha, beta and omega?
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Himeo 4 years, 8 months ago.
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I have been thinking about alpha, beta, and omega, and I wonder how relevant any of that is to MGTOW. Such seems to be part of a structure of leaders and followers, and alpha is seen as the leader, the betas end up following the alpha, and the omega is the runt in the pack. Can it be said MGTOW means moving beyond this? If you go MGTOW, I would say you don’t care about having an alpha to follow. But, do you care even you have followers?
Any thoughts here? Does anyone care here to have a bunch of followers? I believe part revolt to the whole “neomasculity” thing being pushed, besides it being repackaged PUA, is there is an implied “do this to be alpha”.
So, your thoughts?
I did a video based on the original pondering of this, and am likely moving beyond it. Someone who would, for example, be seen as an Omega, take ownership of their life, and not worry about it, and go their own way. In short, leave the power structure completely.
Here is the video if you are interested:
I realize that, I am going to offend someone, even if I try to tip a hat that I may be. I was just concerned I was bungling Hebrew in the video.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
I think that you are right in your concept about MGTOW not being a part of that system, though the terms and their relation to human society is still applicable on the whole and provide a useful metaphor. Ironically Going MGTOW does put you in sort of an Alpha role even though you may not specifically have or want anyone else following you. I believe KeyMaster had some good posts about this in the past I will do some digging and try to get them added to this thread for you.
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self. -Terry Goodkind
MGTOW generally don’t use the term alpha males and beta males because we know it’s too stupid. PUA are just pussy whipped slaves. These terms don’t really concern us.
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
I think alpha, beta and omega should all go MGTOW. Naturally there will be people more fit for leadership and others less fit for it. This doesn’t mean alphas are better or more valuable than omegas, it is a pure fact of natural organization of the community.
The alphas viewed as more valuable is a women driven phenomenon.
Anonymous3PUA is just a scam marketing campaign. The followers are too stupid and too much in denial to admit that the whole thing doesn’t work. It’s like a cult, they’re taught to scream “I’m alpha” a million times a day.
Like most cults and high pressure sales tactics, they’re also taught to alienate and abuse others that don’t join. This is a tactic that’s used by scammers for get rich quick seminars too, the people that won’t sign up and waste their money are shamed and excluded. The smart ones laugh and leave, making sure to cut off the cult members. The stupid people join the cult. PUA is the same, all the doofuses that try to join are free advertising for the “gurus” even if they don’t pay.
But anyway, there is another term that the PUA gurus will admit to and which enrages them. Just classify yourself as a Sigma and smirk at them. That drives them into rages and they lose their entire facade. In truth, this has been exposed many times, but it’s like that wage gap myth, it still persists. PUAs have very low success rates, even the gurus fail most of the time and when they succeed it’s a 6 with self esteem issues, not the 9s and 10s they want you to think it is. Most wind up marrying used up carousel riders in their mid to late 30s after awhile, because to them that’s better than ending up alone their entire lives and they realize that what they’re doing isn’t what they’re selling, and they’d rather take even that over the whole cold approach or spinning plates fantasy.
Anybody see Godzilla 2014? That is an “alpha”. “Monster Going His Own Way”.
It’s nothing to do with Bride-zillas, and “seduction” couldn’t be any further from his mind.
It doesn’t define him. Tell him he’s not an “alpha” and he will just laugh while throwing flames at you.In the film, there is another monster (PUA ) who is obsessed with breeding. He spends the entire film trying to bang the female of his species. Thinks he’s “alpha” but his entire existence – and motivation – is based on whether or not he can hit that s~~~.
To a “Monster Going His Own Way”…. “alpha” and “beta” are totally irrelevant.
My definition of “TRAD CON” was not say trad-con views are wrong and declare tradcons should be ejected. It was only to illustrate what people *MEAN* when MGTOW use the term in a sentence. Like “alpha” or “beta”. We don’t actually subscribe to those (female) definitions, but we use them to talk about certain behaviors and mentalities.
For example, when I talk about “that beta”, I am not implying I am a definitive “alpha” who is speaking negatively about him – because even the most “alpha” of us has been guilty of beta behavior on occasion. Both labels are bulls~~~. But it’s a good way to encapsulate certain behaviors with a couple of words and everyone knows what we are talking about.
When you really think about it, MGTOW are the TRUE alpha males.
(@sidecar gimme a break. Pick up a mirror, man. You have your game and head on right.)
You see the latest Godzilla movie? 2014. Battle between Godzilla and the “PUA” monster on a mission to breed. Godzilla is the alpha / MGTOW character. So is Han Solo. Indiana Jones. Jaws. Clint Eastwood in anything except Bridges of Madison County.
What women perceive (or define) as “alpha” or “beta” is a goddam joke. Even our own glossary admits we don’t subscribe to any finite classifications of these… but the terms are used to describe a certain type of BEHAVIOR – or ATTITUDE.
It’s much easier for a guy to say “Omg I was a such a beta back then” and have other men here know exactly what he’s talking about… but he wasn’t really. He was only socialized to BEHAVE that way. Alpha males don’t even care about this s~~~ and we don’t really either.
When an alpha’s woman f~~~s around on him, it’s not a reflection of HIM. It’s a reflection of HER. But then the Manosphere pretends “if you were truly alpha she wouldn’t screw around on you” and that’s complete bulls~~~.
The Alpha cares about his survival, contentment and well being.
Pussy is a minor distraction and annoyance.But the pursuit of women / vagina is not an “alpha” pursuit at all. We know this because “breeding” is not the highest level of success for human males. It requires little or no skill, intellect, ability – or talent – than any of the other great accomplishments of men. Impregnating a female PALES in comparison to ,say, inventing and creating air travel, the automobile or the internet. THOSE are alpha pursuits.
Attempting to figure out “what is alpha and was is not – if you are and if you’re not” isn’t.
Not giving a s~~~ is a pretty good indicator.
I am sure there are more but I am out of time right now to search.
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self. -Terry Goodkind
Upon further research, I believe one term, which may or may not fit here, would be “Zeta Male”. Sandman did a video on it, but it isn’t a Sandman term:
And it pops up elsewhere:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/bye-bye-alpha-male-and-hello-zeta-male/
http://www.avoiceformen.com/sexual-politics/m-g-t-o-w/so-whats-a-zeta-male-anyway/
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
Old saying, “The wise man learns from all men.” A measured dose of pickupartistry might not hurt young men to let them see how superficially the female….thing inside their skull…..operates. A measured dose.
“do not waste your strength on women, on those who ruin kings.”
"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
I also thought of Alpha-Omega Male for MGTOW, but that has too much Christ overtones for my preferences :-).
The context of the thought is a MGTOW goes his own way, on his own, and for his own end, thus alpha and omega. Anyhow, it does appear this was discussed before (the man going his own way, and what letter fit), even before MGTOW was MGTOW.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
"If pussy was a stock it would be plummeting right now because you've flooded the market with it. You're giving it away too easy." - Dave Chapelle
Which particle has the highest penetrating power?
alpha, beta or gamma?
Gamma radiation is the strongest. It can only be stopped by lead.
That Greek letter is a crock of σκατά!
Society asks MGTOWs: Why are you not making more tax-slaves?
Kind of repeating what KM has stated, but I don’t see the value in classify men to these predefined buckets, for my purposes anyway. There is value in studying behavior, the cause and subsequent effect. Alpha/Beta does a decent job of categorizing 2 different sets of behaviors and their likely outcomes. It can be used as a short hand for describing behavior for those who know what the terms mean. If a man’s behavior typically fits one set of behavior, he can be labeled as such, but certainly isn’t bound to that behavior.
For my purposes, I prefer to just look at the specific behaviors, the cause and effect, and pick and chose what I like and want to incorporate into my own behavior. I’m sure I look alpha in some circumstances while beta or omega, in others. Some of that I’m ok with, some of it is behavior I’d actually like to change or have just come to accept. Whatever.
Ok. Then do it.
Can it be said MGTOW means moving beyond this? If you go MGTOW, I would say you don’t care about having an alpha to follow. But, do you care even you have followers? Any thoughts here? Does anyone care here to have a bunch of followers? I believe part revolt to the whole “neomasculity” thing being pushed, besides it being repackaged PUA, is there is an implied “do this to be alpha”. So, your thoughts?
I don’t think terms like “alpha male” or “beta male” really would apply to human beings anyway, at least not in most structured “civilized” settings. It’s all based on artificial contrivances, not anything truly natural.
For instance, in disaster movies, one might see which characters would be considered “alpha” before the disaster. But then after the disaster hits, when all the contrivances are gone and the insulated urban “comfort zone” no longer exists, then “alphas” and “betas” tend to line up along a more natural pattern. The instinct for survival will always trump the instinct to get laid, and this is where most of the “alpha”/”beta” discussion gets a bit skewed and somewhat off the mark.
In contrast, when we are in our urban comfort zone (which might be most of the time for most of us), then good citizens are expected to conform to society’s standards for acceptable and civilized behavior. We are socialized along these lines from birth, and in many households and sub-cultures in this country, one might face sanctions or punishment for not conforming and not behaving according to the principles of society and civilization.
Those who might be regarded as “alpha males” are those who may have been too indulged in their youth and never actually got the lessons that the “beta males” received on how to behave properly in a civilized society. The “alpha males” clearly know this and take advantage of the fact that “betas” have been conditioned to behave in a legal and morally predictable pattern that the “alphas” depend upon.
The “alpha” is not deriving his alleged strength or power from anything natural. His position is analogous to an armed criminal entering a community where he knows guns have been banned. He knows that the law-abiding “betas” will be unarmed, giving the “alpha” the advantage. But the power is not really his. The “power” derives from the larger society and the rules of civilization which he is deliberately flouting. In that sense, the “alpha male” is really nothing more than a spoiled child relying solely upon parental indulgence and the belief that society won’t really punish him too severely for misbehavior.
And given our society’s rather soft and permissive attitude towards criminality and other forms of bad behavior, they somehow manage to get away with it, all the while pounding their chests at being an “alpha male.” But it’s a total crock.
What I find somewhat amusing is that, whenever a so-called “beta male” stands his ground or fights back against the “alpha,” suddenly the “alpha” acts like a victim and starts whining. Once the “alpha” is exposed as the fraud that he is, his true colors start to show.
It’s just like in the movie Casino when all the top bosses were arrested. The “alpha males” at the top of the pyramid, when facing trial and a possibly long prison sentence, showed up in court looking seriously ill, with oxygen masks and doctors standing by. They looked like a bunch of scared cowards, afraid to stand up and say “Yes, we did it!” That’s definitely not “alpha male” behavior, and yet, this is how popular culture would define it. If they were truly “alpha,” they wouldn’t have to hide what they do or fear the consequences of getting caught.
That Greek letter is a crock of σκατά!
I was trying to go for a Hebrew Taw/Tav. Anything off is limited due to drawing ability.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
@ OP: Hmm, I really think it’s fascinating how you Richard pose a question in this thread you opened yourself and whilst elaborating on it in your introduction to your video (which btw I did watch and approve of) you came very close to give a valid answer to your question of your thread to yourself and yes all it takes is simply to think about it for a while to yourself, one does not have to be any rocket scientist to figure it out for oneself. For instance given the fact that by our own definition we do not need any leaders within our awareness, then why would we even bother about any such terms as alpha or omega or zeta or whatever similar, which are nothing but predefined titles of more or less “leading” ranks (independently from who actually came up with these definitions in the first place, men or women, even that doesn’t matter…). No, in here in reality we have a system of a virtually flat hierarchy. Well ok, maybe apart from the ranking system of gradual building up reputation, one can accumulate by the votes over time, which is fair legitimate and valid as far as dividing between say initial newbies, just after having signed up on the forum and the rather seasoned forum members. And certainly it does help, too in a sense of filtering out potential trollups as well, whenever they happen to turn up, but other than that I dare to think that the voting system has hardly got any real practical purpose, but that is my opinion…
I'd rather die a natual death with a clear MGTOW conscience somewhere off the grid than one within "modern" civilisation with a big stress mark on my forehead and a couple of dozen tubes plugged into my body. Back to the plantation..? Me..? Hey, literally: I won't ever fucking kid myself...YZERLMNTSIC
The alpha male is a family man and protects his pack. That’s what science shows. This bulls~~~ about the alpha being the tough guy who gets it his way and including the allure of the women (even though he hardly cares) is really just a mentally ill man who is a total jerk. He inside only believes in himself, he’s a narcissist, and anyone who confuses that with some sort of awesome character is either confused or worse.
@ OP: Hmm, I really think it’s fascinating how you Richard pose a question in this thread you opened yourself and whilst elaborating on it in your introduction to your video (which btw I did watch and approve of) you came very close to give a valid answer to your question of your thread to yourself and yes all it takes is simply to think about it for a while to yourself, one does not have to be any rocket scientist to figure it out for oneself. For instance given the fact that by our own definition we do not need any leaders within our awareness, then why would we even bother about any such terms as alpha or omega or zeta or whatever similar, which are nothing but predefined titles of more or less “leading” ranks (independently from who actually came up with these definitions in the first place, men or women, even that doesn’t matter…). No, in here in reality we have a system of a virtually flat hierarchy. Well ok, maybe apart from the ranking system of gradual building up reputation, one can accumulate by the votes over time, which is fair legitimate and valid as far as dividing between say initial newbies, just after having signed up on the forum and the rather seasoned forum members. And certainly it does help, too in a sense of filtering out potential trollups as well, whenever they happen to turn up, but other than that I dare to think that the voting system has hardly got any real practical purpose, but that is my opinion…
This thread followed after the video. It is an exploration of the concept and what people use, and useful to try be able to communicate and see the better form from the worse forms (looking for a phrase to communicate here). And it was after further thought.
I am going to be doing more of these, hoping to have clarity led here, and have it work to have something positive. I am running into Youtube channels with a lot of anger in them, with one YouTuber saying MGTOW is strictly secular and religious people need to get out. Anyhow, I will post my take on it, and see what else others have to say regarding it. I should have that video made available soon.
"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.
There are indeed alphas. The problem, once again, is men seeking validation from women. Women do not define alpha. An alpha to a woman is a good looking man to reproduce with first and foremost, and a good provider second. Men value these much less and these are mostly irrelevant when men consider others as alpha. An alpha is a man that overall has the most going for him to lead a group of men. A man has little interest in providing for another man, but rather in teaching a man how to provide for himself, to be a part of the pack. A man that is able to instruct other men how to defend themselves and sustain themselves better than other men is an alpha. This has and always will be an alpha, it is nothing more than the leader that naturally emerges in a group of men over a period of time that best demonstrates their ideology.
"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
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