"MGTOW Endgame" A Dangerous Fantasy?

[schizoaffectiveParticipant 35]

So, after spending sometime watching videos by the likes of Sandman, Barbarossa, and Thinking-Ape, I noticed they all share the view that MGTOW, if widely adopted, would cause the destruction of Western Civilization and that this is a good thing.

Firstly, fortunately, I don’t think this could happen and here’s why: 1 man can can impregnate something like 15 women a month. This means that even if 50% of men become MGTOW, society can still prevent a demographic crisis by increasing taxes and increasing welfare spending for single mothers. Women make up the majority of the voting population MGTOW would be powerless to stop it.

Secondly, I question WHY all these prominent members of the MGTOW community are calling for the downfall of civilization. We’re all dependent on civilization for the lifestyles we lead and the many luxuries we take for granted. Intentionally causing an economic collapse by not having children seems irrational and vindictive. Why cut off your nose to spite your face?

What do you guys think?

[BurgundyParticipant 1525]

No it won’t end in some Western destruction, male value will just rise up, supply and demand.

I have a feeling they will first make it harder on single men, before giving men better terms when it comes to family and being a father.

It will get worse before it gets better, more men will choose the path of MGTOW, before considering taking a bait, I guess the blue pills will be experimental subjects in those times.

[Anonymous 1]

schizoaffective wrote:

1 man can can impregnate something like 15 women a month. This means that even if 50% of men become MGTOW, society can still prevent a demographic crisis by increasing taxes and increasing welfare spending for single mothers. Women make up the majority of the voting population MGTOW would be powerless to stop it.

Do you really think that if enough men go mgtow, and remaining men started to impregnate women, the welfare system would be enough to support all those single mothers and their children? How much would this increase of taxes be? Do you think that if this increase were to be too much, that would not be enough to cause some kind of abandon from taxes in itself from Mgtow? I mean, men can only give so much to the government until he had enough. There is no way raising taxes would make it up for men going Mgtow. Not only financially, but also, after those kids get older, you would have a nation of criminals.

schizoaffective wrote:

Secondly, I question WHY all these prominent members of the MGTOW community are calling for the downfall of civilization. We’re all dependent on civilization for the lifestyles we lead and the many luxuries we take for granted. Intentionally causing an economic collapse by not having children seems irrational and vindictive. Why cut off your nose to spite your face?

Because civilization as it is today does not benefit men, while is totally dependent on men. WOMEN are dependent on the current system, men would do just fine. Besides, the situation is becoming so unbearable for men, that is desirable to watch everything burn then to be a part of it. How long would you stand being considered a criminal just because you have a dick? How long would men accept being controlled on every aspect of their lives (manspreadingm, manslamming)? How long would men be DEMANDED to give their sweat, blood and tears to keep society running, while being spitted on the face for doing so.

And no, it is not just the prominent Mgtows that are willing to see the current system fall, it is the majority. Or at least we don’t give a s~~~ if this happen. Why would we? You said yourself, that the government would be willing to increase taxes to support single mothers, instead of charge those same single mothers some responsibility.

So I say, if going my on way will make the system collapse, let it burn. Let it f~~~ing burn.

You can be a slave if you want.

 

[herodeath7Participant 35]

I’ve always though that the “we want an end to civilization” quote (ironically) ends at the wrong place. “We want an end to civilization as we know it” seems like the more prudent phrase; this is something that can happen if half of the worlds male population (a quarter of the world!) effectively stopped contributing to the reproduction process. Cutting anything by a quarter would definitely contribute to some sort of long lasting change, and reproduction and sex are no different. With half the male population MGTOW, women will have to forgo the marriage contract, and completely endorse polygamy (too many women, not enough men), which might be enough to open the Mangina’s/blue-pillers/white knights eyes about the true nature of women, bring them (hopefully) to MGTOW, and change civilization as we know it.

schizoaffective wrote:

We’re all dependent on civilization for the lifestyles we lead and the many luxuries we take for granted.

Just because we’ve been given some material luxuries from the civilization we live in (which can be taken at anytime by the selfsame civilization) doesn’t mean that we should completely submit to it. If we do, then how can the egregious errs of civilization be rectified (albeit that’s not really a MGTOW problem).

[BritGHOWParticipant 2566]

And having children that can be taken from you along with half or more of:
– Your past in the form of your hard earned savings
– Your present in the form of your home, your assets, your job and your reputation
– Your future in terms of your career and employability, your liberty and ultimately your life.
on nothing more than the whim of the woman you chose to have the children with seems irrational and stupid. The only thing I for one have cut off is the risk of a hell of a lot of pain later in my life for little to no gain now.

As for your example:
As taxes increase and more money is taken away from the productive element of society eventually that productive element will reach the conclusion that it serves no value to them to continue, then they stop producing and regardless of how many women one man can impregnate he cannot possibly support them all financially and at that point the whole house of cards will come crashing down.

The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people’s money to spend

When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation

[IGMOW (I Go My Own Way)Participant 2572]

I think if any man goes MGTOW as a tactic to change society, thinking there will be some sort of collective payout for going MGTOW, that man is going to be disappointment.  If a man goes MGTOW, for himself, and bettering himself, he will reap the rewards.

"I am my own thang. Any questions?" - Davis S Pumpkins.

[BritGHOWParticipant 2566]

Agreed richard, if a man wants to change society, the MRA movement is what he’s looking for, if he wants to live free for himself and is happy with the mindset that society may change without him, but if not that’s no great loss on his part, then I’d say you’re looking at a MGTOW in all but name.

[herodeath7Participant 35]

BritGHOW wrote:

The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people’s money to spend

I’ve always liked the fundamental ideas of socialism. Equality, Fairness, ‘Everybody helping everybody.” Women, however, replaced the second “everybody” with “me”.

Anonymous wrote:

There is no way raising taxes would make it up for men going Mgtow.

I wish the government f~~~ing would raise taxes, in an attempt to compensate for MGTOW. I’d become the president (beating out the “whores of New York and Bill’s Wife) if only to drop-kick congress.

[Anonymous 1]

IGMOW (I Go My Own Way) wrote:

I think if any man goes MGTOW as a tactic to change society, thinking there will be some sort of collective payout for going MGTOW, that man is going to be disappointment. If a man goes MGTOW, for himself, and bettering himself, he will reap the rewards.

BritGHOW wrote:

I think if any man goes MGTOW as a tactic to change society, thinking there will be some sort of collective payout for going MGTOW, that man is going to be disappointment. If a man goes MGTOW, for himself, and bettering himself, he will reap the rewards.

Agree with both. But a man can also dream, can’t he? 😀

[BritGHOWParticipant 2566]

herodeath7 wrote:

BritGHOW wrote:

The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people’s money to spend

I’ve always liked the fundamental ideas of socialism. Equality, Fairness, ‘Everybody helping everybody.” Women, however, replaced the second “everybody” with “me”.

Not just women.

The concept was sound. “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need” sounds fair in theory. problem is like most plans it didn’t survive first contact with the lazy, the feckless and those, men and women, who “need” a big house, a flash car, 50″ Sky TVs, kids out the ying yang and more but aren’t willing to work for it.

[Darth SinParticipant 576]

MGTOWs do not expect an endgame of social collapse. MGTOWs simply don’t give a s~~~ about society collapsing. We are indifferent to it. Indifference is not support.

What’s more Western civilization will not collapse and even if it did, it will take a while. Rome did not just fall in a few years, it took a few centuries to happen.

What is more likely to happen is a plateauing of society into a slow drivel. No collapse just stagnation.

[DurdenParticipant 1051]

I think you vastly underestimate the economic and societal implications of MGTOW. Nature is built on cause and effect. So is civilization. We are seen as items and not people. We left the plantation. Plus we want to be happy and you really can’t be happy in a relationship with a guillotine over your head. Nor in a society that takes so much but gives so little respect. If you raise taxes too high we are out of here because we are intelligent men and weigh costs and benefits. Didn’t hurt anybody just doing our own thing. If that worries you I don’t give a damn.

 

It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything

[Zuberi TauParticipant 10606]

My endgame isn’t the destruction of western civilization. That job will be carried out by the bastard baby makers, trash bags, parasites, police state and political gangsters.

My end game is financially security and self sufficiency without interruptions.

 

[ILiveAgainParticipant]

Don’t assume mgtow will have no effect on society. Look at the herbivore in Japan.

I for one am surprised and a little shocked and the rising stats on google for mgtow.

We’ve often talked here about once mgtow reaches ‘organic’ launch …. and I believe that time is closer than I ever thought.

Our whole system is based on trends and as soon as some broker somewhere starts seeing that his ‘investments’ are sliding … well then ….

He’ll phone his lobbyists, they’ll bribe the politicians who in turn will change laws to stop the rot.

The problem with all of that? It moves at a snails pace ….. organic mgtow will be like a rocket …. and that’s where the dangerous & unpredictable could happen.

However……. you know the old saying:

Let it burn. I’m going my own way.

The greatest thing about mgtow …. when all around is ash …. we will return and build …. shovel the gravel.

[herodeath7Participant 35]

BritGHOW wrote:

the lazy, the feckless and those, men and women, who “need” a big house, a flash car, 50″ Sky TVs, kids out the ying yang and more but aren’t willing to work for it

Not wanting to work for it isn’t the problem so much as not wanting to partition resources equally. You can (not saying you are) argue that the people living off Welfare are lazy c~~~s not willing to work (which is a gross understatement), but then that is just a byproduct of a society wherein people have definite limits on how high they can climb the socioeconomic ladder based off their birth “setting”. Knowing that your destiny will probably be as a low earning corporate slave at best, there isn’t really much incentive in working your ass off (which, understandably can lead to the “lazy” argument.) If society was one that made it so that all jobs are accessible to all people regardless of base economic standing (which would necessitate a revamp of the school system) then there’d be less people on Welfare. Of course then there’d be more rich people and less Uber-Rich people, which is the real reason why true Socialism will probably never catch on.

[RennieParticipant]

It’s not good in a way for civilization to collapse, but at the same time, because it has been taken over and turned against those who created it (men) there’s no reason to keep it propped up anymore. Better to let it go, purge all the garbage and rebuild.

After the nuclear war, the MGTOW’s will lead.

[Anonymous 12]

I’m a passionate hater of the Left Wing ideology so I’m declaring that now before I put my opinion forward although regardless of my beliefs, I think I am being quite objective as well.

Western Civilization is already in decline that is a widely accepted fact/observation. It’s in decline due to our traditions such as male led society, close families, nationalism, and many other qualities being eroded. Western women and men whether they be white or any other ethnicity aren’t getting married like they used to and the number of children has been in decline for quite some time. Which ironically leads to immigration to bump up numbers and that immigration tends to come from countries which oppose most of the values the Left stand for.

So my point, we already see the Left crumbling, if you are familiar with the novel Animal Farm they have reached “All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others” stage, the recent Hilary women’s own dinner as an example of that.

As it crumbles, you will find people going back to traditions, abandoning these freakish newer ways. It’s already happening in many cases.

So as the society we now know collapses, a new one will rise in it’s wake. It will be more like a transition period where the pendulum swings the other way again.

 

Although in the event of all out Mad Max society collapse then I think we all know there is only one gender who can survive that….

 

[herodeath7Participant 35]

Anonymous wrote:

So as the society we now know collapses, a new one will rise in it’s wake. It will be more like a transition period where the pendulum swings the other way again.

I think that a world where “black and white” ideologies swing back and forth from centers tage to yesterday’s news and back to the spotlight is really scary, as it reminds me of the eternal war depicted in Orwell’s 1984. That said, maybe there are past versions of MGTOW that were “erased” from history, which leads me to wonder if we’ll share the same…f~~~ it, too busy going my own way.Though I do see the reason in most of what you said @Morlock, though I consider myself relatively Liberal (which in retrospect is no different from conservative in government.)

[treelville..miamiParticipant 893]

The world is running out of oil among other resources, it’s depletion is expected in about 40 years. So the collapse will happen, and the comparison to Rome is irrelevant because we are armed with internet and media, which means, information travels instantaneously as opposed to horseback messengers. The internet and social media can spark an uprising and change with a flick of a button in the technical age, what once took 50 years to gain acknowledgment and prominence worldwide can now be done instantly.

MGTOW is having a profound impact and it’s happening really fast because of how fast info can travel. Also what’s happening in the west is usually a trend and will be followed by the rest of the world. Any smart man can see that things are happening very quickly, almost too quick on a global stage. I was on Yahoo answers the other day and I know that’s a poor place to make an astute comparison, however, all over the threads were MGTOW questions from men all over the world.

I don’t think people are hoping for the demise of civilization they’d prefer change, but it will become an inevitable circumstance if enough men say “I just don’t give a f~~~ anymore” and go MGTOW.

"The wounds of honor are self inflicted"

[experiencedParticipant]

It’s MGTOW not: MGTOWASLITRM = not:  men going their own way and still looking in the rearview mirror.

No rearview mirror

"It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."

[Author]

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