MGTOW and Feminsim both have the same end goal.

[Lone WolfParticipant 205]

Now before you explode with anger, let me explain. There’s 3 waves of feminism.

1st wave- equal rights (voting and schools for ex.) for women, which considering them being human beings and completely capable of rational thought, this was a good thing. Now I will say that through hard pschological data, women on average are a lot more neurotic, compassionate, and agreeable than men which can affect their rationality. But clearly women like Ayne Rand are brilliant and just as formidable as any other male intellectual.

2nd wave- upending the entire “patriarchal” system because they believe it to be inherently oppressive and evil against them. But they are completely wrong because this system is built out of competence. But they justify their claims of oppression by focusing on ridiculuous disparities like “equal pay” and it conflates disparity with injustice. Instead of seeking equality of opportunity, it seeks equality of outcome for their group, which is downright impossible, except through force, and is completely tribal and rooted in class-warfare marxism. It is the “women shouldn’t be in the kitchen bare-footed and pregnant, they should be in the work place, just like men, as a CEO!” Even though sooooo many studies have proved that women are more miserable than ever because they are taking up high-end jobs and would be so much happier if they didn’t let their ovaries dry up and actually get married and have a child. It is also “sexual liberty” which is being a promiscuous slut and having as many abortions as you so please. This wave destroys the family and it destroys competence, a couple of the bedrocks of our Western Civilization.

3rd wave- women and men are exactly the same. Period. No difference whatsoever. Gender is just another social construct invented by the patriarchy. There is an infinite amount of genders and you are a blank slate (Marxist idea) who can be molded into anything. You can be “gender fluid” and change genders on a whim just by “feeling” like a man one day or “feeling” like a woman the next. You can remove your genitalia and slap on some fake t~~~, a wig, a dress, and some high heels and BOOM you are no longer Bruce… you are Caitlyn. Completely disregarding the obvious physical differences and even the small and complex differences like chromosomes (xy- man; xx-woman). On top of that, the evidence backing the existence of only 2 genders is so unbelievably strong that you’d have to be a moron to say otherwise. This is all another nail in the coffin of Western Civilization because when you eradicate the differences between men and women and encourage transgenderism, then there is no desire to have children, which destroys the family.

MGTOW seems to have the same goal: down with the family. Family involves women, and women are toxic to men and eat up all of his resources and are despicable enough to divorce him, which takes half of his property and the child as well. Now I understand there is an “epidemic of gold-digging whores in this country” as Bill Burr said so eloquently and the divorce rates are off the charts. HOWEVER, is the reason why women are acting this way because of the prevailing feminist culture we live in or because MGTOW believes that women are inherently evil? If the answer is the former, then MGTOW’s solution is to fix the culture we live in. The solution is NOT to abandon the culture entirely and believe in foolish generalizations about women through anecdotal stories you find online because obviously 1…5…20 anecdotes about s~~~ty women don’t represent every single woman in America. Now, if the answer is the latter, then MGTOW is just like feminism because both believe the opposite sex is oppressive and evil. Additionally, it means there is no solution and men should abandon women, which doesn’t continue our species and also destroys the family (meaning MGTOW and feminism have the same end goal). On top of this, according to so many psychological studies, a child who isn’t raised by two parents have a high likelihood of joining gangs and destroying the society in which they live in because of a lack of a strong father.So which is it? Does MGTOW want to fix the culture we live in or follow the same Feminist/Identitarian route of branding the opposite sex as the evil oppressor and use it as a reason to destroy the family?

I’m honestly looking for some feedback, not insults or bans. Any censorship would just be admitting that MGTOW cannot defend it’s own fundamental ideas. And, because I’ve seen this before, I get the feeling that some of you guys would pull the “this person is a woman” card which reduces the debate down to idiotic tribal identity politics. This is about discussing ideas, not about branding your opponent as (insert group name) and wanting to shut him down because he is in that group through no choice of his own. On top of that, it’d be just as impossible for me to prove that I’m a guy as it is impossible for every single one of you to prove that you yourselves are guys. “You just got that picture from the internet!” You get the gist. Let’s be rational for God’s sake.

Edit: The MGTOW name is deceptive. All I see on this site is an encouragement to go the same way: abandon the family because women are inherently evil. Have you ever seen a guy on this site choosing to get married and start a family? No, because the purpose of this site is to lead men away from marriage, which is the norm. There’s memes satirizing marriage all over this site. As much I love the idea of men actually going the way they so choose… this site does not match it’s name.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

[NerdTunnelerParticipant]

The statement is wrong. Understand that MGTOW…From the word itself…Men Going Their Own Way…I do what I want with my life…Whatever I do, I took control of my life…I dont give a f~~~ about others opinion of me nor are they entitled to demand anything from me. My responsibility is to my own life and how I live it..Its simple…

I dont seek to destroy society or understand femtards or their “waves”…I went fishing…Life is peaceful when I have no f~~~s to give…

I dont get the hulabalu why people are panicking that MEN just went fishing because WE wanted to catch some grub…

I stand with feet apart and let my balls hang free...Manginas dont have balls...See how they stand and sit at the whim of their masters...

[bladeParticipant]

I am an independent .

Feminists put them selves before there kids . They put even money above there kids .

F~~~ money . Who gives a f~~~ about s~~~ like that .

I not only care about my own kids but the kids they have to grow up around .

I also care about my community i live in . I dont want third world rapist stealing pedo , killers imported . Feminists do

THE PLANTATION HAS NOW TURNED INTO THE KILLING FIELDS . WOMAN ARE NOW ROLLING CAMBODIAN STYLE .

[bladeParticipant]

Lone Wolf wrote:

I’m honestly looking for some feedback, not insults or bans.

If you get insults to bad . I doubt anyone would want to punt you for having your opinion .

You have a set . High five

THE PLANTATION HAS NOW TURNED INTO THE KILLING FIELDS . WOMAN ARE NOW ROLLING CAMBODIAN STYLE .

[Can’t Stump TrumpParticipant]

EDITED: I thought you were a new member because of your number of stars. I’ll respond to a few of your points, but I’ll wait to see what you have to say to those before answering the others.

Women are better at multitasking? Fucking up several things at once is not multitasking.

[Anonymous 7]

Lone Wolf wrote:

I’m honestly looking for some feedback, not insults or bans. Any censorship would just be admitting that MGTOW cannot defend it’s own fundamental ideas.

You should lurk more.
Burning the midnight oil for a paper due?

[Lone WolfParticipant 205]

@nerdtunneler That name is deceptive. All I see on this site is an encouragement to go the same way: abandon the family because women are inherently evil. Have you ever seen a guy on this site choosing to get married and start a family? No, because the purpose of this site is to lead men away from marriage, which is the norm. There’s memes satirizing marriage all over this site. As much I love the idea of men actually going the way they so choose… this site does not match it’s name.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

[NerdTunnelerParticipant]

Lone Wolf wrote:

That name is deceptive. All I see on this site is an encouragement to go the same way: abandon the family because women are inherently evil. Have you ever seen a guy on this site choosing to get married and start a family? No, because the purpose of this site is to lead men away from marriage, which is the norm. There’s memes satirizing marriage all over this site. As much I love the idea of men actually going the way they so choose… this site does not match it’s name.

Lead men away from marriage? F~~~ing stupid c~~~ who cant Read…A lot of us were married…A lot of us were good guys who slaved and sacrificed so our woman can have a good life…And we got kicked to the curb by these “unicorns”…Read how many loving fathers were broken by the c~~~s? They still care about their family…

Now that we are searching for our own happiness, we got lumped with the femtards? F~~~ing A…Why is a MAN trying to be happy by himself a threat to others?

MGTOW is a choice…It cant be forced on anyone…My life, my choice…

I stand with feet apart and let my balls hang free...Manginas dont have balls...See how they stand and sit at the whim of their masters...

[GrumpyParticipant]

No, not the same goal at all.
Feminism wants dominance and control over all men, all things male and female, for the exclusive benefit of a few women.
I have yet to hear of any “group” supporting a MGTOW ideology demand and receive government or societal funding and support to usurp women’s roles, freedoms, mobility, education, employment, or history for the exclusive benefit of men.
As for myself, I dominate and control only me.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[WallyParticipant]

Not angry at you but Believe you are misinformed.

My lesbian feminist sister was p~~~ed that I refused to stay on the plantation and marry. Two things dawned on me in the moment she realized I refused 1) Misandry is a thing, saw the hate in her eyes and 2) marriage is a prison that both traditional and feminist women use on men, it provides no benefit to a man.

"what a waste of a life, to marry, give up your freedom, just for the hope of not dying alone. Don't get married Son."

[Anonymous 2]

Lone Wolf wrote:

@nerdtunneler That name is deceptive. All I see on this site is an encouragement to go the same way: abandon the family because women are inherently evil. Have you ever seen a guy on this site choosing to get married and start a family? No, because the purpose of this site is to lead men away from marriage, which is the norm. There’s memes satirizing marriage all over this site. As much I love the idea of men actually going the way they so choose… this site does not match it’s name.

So, men should take part in a system that uses them as disposables and treats them as nothing but walking ATM machines? The system allows women to destroy a man financially and emotionally by taking all of his assets, forcing him to pay decades of his future income to her in child support and alimony, and gives her the power to keep him from his kids, and the only thing the government gives a s~~~ about is that the f~~~ing child support money is coming out of his check, AND YOU DON’T SEE A F~~~ING PROBLEM WITH THAT?!

Look, if you want to give a woman the power to destroy your life, then that’s your choice. But don’t f~~~ing come here telling MGTOW men that they are the same as feminists because they won’t foolishly sign up for the s~~~ deal of marriage where the second the man says “I do”, he gives the woman the power to destroy his life on the mere whim that she isn’t 100% satisfied.

Get this through your head: It’s not about whether it’s a fact that every woman will destroy you if given the chance, IT’S THE FACT THAT ANY WOMAN CAN!!

[RomulusParticipant 4667]

Does MGTOW want to fix the culture we live in or follow the same Feminist/Identitarian route of branding the opposite sex as the evil oppressor and use it as a reason to destroy the family?

I don’t accept the premise of only two choices.

Perhaps there are times one simply doesn’t participate in an evil system. One might even argue that should enough people walk away and not participate the evil system will be starved of oxygen and go bye-bye.

Think about the times in history that were affected by enough folks simply not participating. Or, think about what history would be if a majority of people had sought to do that at various times. Nope, not participating, won’t join in that. Its amazingly powerful.

That can be destructive. For awhile.

From that destruction, something new can grow.

The current state of marriage is an evil perpetuated upon men. It’s backed by all the power of the state including the power to make you poor and to lock you up, and you with little recourse.

Regardless of what third wave feminist think, to be blindly participating in that system we would be furthering the normalization of the evil treatment of men.

So, perhaps by not participating, one is actually starting a process that will lead to more stable relationships, under what ever arrangements men and women work out without the oppression of the state taking our money and our liberty.

Also, there will be a fourth wave shortly, trust me, those gender-study girls are nothing if not a bee-hive of activity.

Good post, thanks, very thought provoking.

How can a woman be expected to be happy with a man who insists on treating her as if she were a perfectly normal human being.

[Can’t Stump TrumpParticipant]

Lone Wolf wrote:

Now before you explode with anger, let me explain.

Why do you anticipate such a reaction? Is it because of your intentionally inflammatory click-bait title? Gee, I wonder.

Lone Wolf wrote:

1st wave- equal rights (voting and schools for ex.) for women, which considering them being human beings and completely capable of rational thought, this was a good thing.

This “good thing” is destroying western civilization. Women were given equal rights without corresponding responsibilities. Why don’t children have equal rights with their parents? Because the parents bear all the responsibility for the household, which means they have all the authority. Men bear and always have borne all the responsibility for civilization. Women don’t work important jobs like electricians, plumbers, and construction workers, don’t even pay net taxes, since they receive more in welfare than they pay into the system, and aren’t required to register for the draft. For society to function, rights need to be commensurate to responsibilities. If women want equal rights, they should shoulder equal responsibility to men. That wouldn’t bother me in the least, as it would be a fair system, but it’ll never happen.

Lone Wolf wrote:

But clearly women like Ayne Rand are brilliant and just as formidable as any other male intellectual.

Why? She wrote a f~~~ing book. Atlas Shrugged may be an important work for MGTOW, but can you seriously compare that to the achievements of the artists, scientists, inventors, and philosophers who literally built the west with their minds, all of them male? You’re setting the standard for women incredibly low. Just because Ayn Rand is intellectually superior to the vast majority of her own gender doesn’t put her on equal footing with any male geniuses.

Second wave feminism was indeed more harmful than first wave, but it was the inevitable outcome of giving women voting rights. As Schopenhauer eloquently explained, women have the mental capacity and disposition of children. Never forced to take responsibility for their actions, they rely on men for everything and are always given preferential treatment by society. The destruction of the family, which feminism seeks, ultimately leads to the destruction of civilization, but women are too focused on short term gratification to see the long-term implications of the policies and laws which they vote for, which is why no sane and rational government in the history of the west ever gave women voting rights until after the so-called “enlightenment.”

Lone Wolf wrote:

MGTOW seems to have the same goal: down with the family.

Absolutely not. Some MGTOW are against families, some (like myself) actually support families, provided the society is fundamentally patriarchal and the father is the head of his household. But support or lack thereof for the family is not intrinsic to MGTOW. MGTOW is a survival response to a system in which relationships with women are extremely dangerous for men. In a society where men could safely marry and have families, many current MGTOW would do so, while many others would remain bachelors and not bother with the hassle. MGTOW is against family law in the current environment, not necessarily the notion of families in general. Families happen in nature, without regulation, without laws, without marriage. Our society has taken a natural human behavior and surrounded it with myriads of laws and regulations to protect the woman at all costs and make the man a disposable wage slave. That is the system which MGTOW is walking away from.

Lone Wolf wrote:

HOWEVER, is the reason why women are acting this way because of the prevailing feminist culture we live in or because MGTOW believes that women are inherently evil?

Women aren’t evil, they just act in accordance with their nature, which is hypergamy. Ancient civilizations understood female nature and curbed it by making the father the head of the household, restricting divorce to serious reasons only, and making the father the default custodian of the children in the event of separation. When female nature is well controlled, it is perfectly tolerable, though some men would prefer not to deal with it even then. In our society, the natural hypergamy of women has no restraints, leading to endless broken families and divorced husbands turned into wage slaves.

Lone Wolf wrote:

If the answer is the former, then MGTOW’s solution is to fix the culture we live in. The solution is NOT to abandon the culture entirely and believe in foolish generalizations about women through anecdotal stories you find online because obviously 1…5…20 anecdotes about s~~~ty women don’t represent every single woman in America.

Fix the culture, eh? And just how are you going to “fix the culture” when women vote? You can’t change the laws when the majority of voters are women and will never agree to give up their unearned rights now that they have them. Let me know your plan. The greatest minds in MGTOW agree that the system cannot be fixed. I’ll be interested to see what a high school student can come up with that the most brilliant men alive in the world today couldn’t think of.

As for the NAWALT argument, I’m not even going to bother to address it. Either you will eventually learn that all women are like that, or you won’t. I can’t help someone who refuses to see the reality right in front of his eyes. Human nature, specifically female nature, is not a blank slate. Women all over the world all throughout time exhibit the same hypergamous behavior. Read up on Briffault’s Law.

Lone Wolf wrote:

Now, if the answer is the latter, then MGTOW is just like feminism because both believe the opposite sex is oppressive and evil.

Ho hum, the “MGTOW is just like feminism” argument for the 100th time. There have been so many threads on this topic on this site alone that surely a brief foray into a search engine should provide you with enough red pills to keep you dosed for a lifetime. Suffice it to say that even if each position regards the other as oppressive, they are not the same if only one of the two is CORRECT. (Hint: it’s not feminism.)

Women are better at multitasking? Fucking up several things at once is not multitasking.

[Lone WolfParticipant 205]

@Can’tStumpTrump Yeah my account has been here for a while, but I stopped being so active and tapered off some time ago.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

[Ranger OneParticipant 16836]

Lone Wolf wrote:

Now before you explode with anger, let me explain.

Don’t worry, I won’t explode with anger; it takes something like my ex bouncing up and down on another dude’s penis to do that.

Lone Wolf wrote:

Now I understand there is an “epidemic of gold-digging whores in this country” as Bill Burr said so eloquently and the divorce rates are off the charts. HOWEVER,

Not my words; I would have said “epidemic of hypergamous sluts”.

Lone Wolf wrote:

is the reason why women are acting this way because of the prevailing feminist culture we live in or because MGTOW believes that women are inherently evil?

That is a false dichotomy. Women aren’t evil anymore than rattlesnakes are evil, but I take care to stay out of striking range of venomous snakes.

Lone Wolf wrote:

If the answer is the former, then MGTOW’s solution is to fix the culture we live in. The solution is NOT to abandon the culture entirely and believe in foolish generalizations about women through anecdotal stories you find online because obviously 1…5…20 anecdotes about s~~~ty women don’t represent every single woman in America. Now, if the answer is the latter, then MGTOW is just like feminism because both believe the opposite sex is oppressive and evil. Additionally, it means there is no solution and men should abandon women, which doesn’t continue our species and also destroys the family (meaning MGTOW and feminism have the same end goal).

MGTOW men can still have children through a surrogate; if my son wants to go that route, I will help. My goal is to be left the f~~~ alone. Feminist goal is to proactively f~~~ with people, to suppress free speech, to get laws passed. The only thing good about feminists is they helped show more people about innate female nature.

As far as the species goes; f~~~ the species.

Lone Wolf wrote:

Does MGTOW want to fix the culture we live in or follow the same Feminist/Identitarian route of branding the opposite sex as the evil oppressor and use it as a reason to destroy the family?

NO; that would be MRA’s. MGTOW are too busy doing s~~~ to oppress women. On the other hand, women can still make false accusations against a guy they’ve never even met before. (e.g. the guy in the British mass transit, proved innocent by CCT) Women are the oppressors that wield the power of the government (divorce/family law, the one phone call dial-a-gun trick, false accusations, etc)

Lone Wolf wrote:

Edit: The MGTOW name is deceptive. All I see on this site is an encouragement to go the same way: abandon the family because women are inherently evil.As much I love the idea of men actually going the way they so choose… this site does not match it’s name.

Wrong. Some men are like celibate monks, some men date and have gf’s (like me), other’s pump and dump. Women are not evil or immoral; they are amoral, like animals.

Lone Wolf wrote:

No, because the purpose of this site is to lead men away from marriage, which is the norm.

“The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” – Marcus Aurelius (Roman emperor and philosopher)

All my life I've had doubts about who I am, where I belonged. Now I'm like the arrow that springs from the bow. No hesitation, no doubts. The path is clear. And what are you? Alive. Everything else is negotiable. Women have rights; men have responsibilities; MGTOW have freedom. Marriage is for chumps. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart-R'as al Ghul.

[Lone WolfParticipant 205]

@nerdtunneler Yeah let’s just devolve into throwing insults… hahaha. Let’s be a little mature. The whole idea of men going their own way is that they can go any way, right? Now if one way is marriage and that way is explicitly told through videos and memes and the site’s history tab, to never go down… then obviously this site is not about going your own way… it is about going any way BUT marriage. Which means the site doesn’t live up to it’s own name.

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem, government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

[bladeParticipant]

Trump . Lol i was waiting for you to put it elloquotely . Well said

THE PLANTATION HAS NOW TURNED INTO THE KILLING FIELDS . WOMAN ARE NOW ROLLING CAMBODIAN STYLE .

[GrumpyParticipant]

Lone Wolf wrote:

abandon the family because women are inherently evil.

Really now?
I would counter that a man taken from his home and family by force, then criminalized, brutalized, emotionally tortured, financially crippled if not destroyed, with complete complicity of the governments “family courts” at the whim of an unhappy woman is a far cry from “abandonment”.
Such action would and could quite fairly be identified as “evil” at worst, or malignant/malicious at the least.

Lone Wolf wrote:

No, because the purpose of this site is to lead men away from marriage, which is the norm.

If that is how you see it, fine.
However you are sorely and willfully blind to the “state” of marriage and relationships as they stand today. Also you seem to be competent at ignoring divorce rates, and reasons for said divorce rates.
Women and Governments are doing a fine enough job of deterring men from marriage/relationships/family themselves with their actions alone. Men are NOT being “led away” from marriage by this site, or any other site. Divorces lead men away from marriage, and THAT is the NORM.

There was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it

[NerdTunnelerParticipant]

Lone Wolf wrote:

@nerdtunneler Yeah let’s just devolve into throwing insults… hahaha. Let’s be a little mature. The whole idea of men going their own way is that they can go any way, right? Now if one way is marriage and that way is explicitly told through videos and memes and the site’s history tab, to never go down… then obviously this site is not about going your own way… it is about going any way BUT marriage. Which means the site doesn’t live up to it’s own name.

LOL…If you want to get married…Be my guest…No one is stopping you…Get married and after 5 years tell me about it…

And you are welcome in advance…

I stand with feet apart and let my balls hang free...Manginas dont have balls...See how they stand and sit at the whim of their masters...

[Ranger OneParticipant 16836]

Lone Wolf wrote:

@nerdtunneler Yeah let’s just devolve into throwing insults… hahaha. Let’s be a little mature. The whole idea of men going their own way is that they can go any way, right? Now if one way is marriage and that way is explicitly told through videos and memes and the site’s history tab, to never go down… then obviously this site is not about going your own way… it is about going any way BUT marriage. Which means the site doesn’t live up to it’s name.

You can’t really go your own way if you get married. That’s just how it works.

If this website was called “Free men” instead, then being a human slave or a prison inmate are not “free men”.

I figured these things out not long after being red-pilled.

All my life I've had doubts about who I am, where I belonged. Now I'm like the arrow that springs from the bow. No hesitation, no doubts. The path is clear. And what are you? Alive. Everything else is negotiable. Women have rights; men have responsibilities; MGTOW have freedom. Marriage is for chumps. If someone stands in the way of true justice, you simply walk up behind them and stab them in the heart-R'as al Ghul.

[Author]

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