Lost my cool, almost, with a blue pill colleague

[DaveVParticipant 450]

Russky2 wrote:

My only question is WHY did you shake his hand?…

Although when someone reneges on a deal, you do feel like throwing a right hook – ultimately it wouldn’t have changed anything.
I allowed him to change the terms of the repayment, MY word is my bond – hence why I shook on it.

I just remember most of us were blue pill at one point, and have all gone through the traumatic and life changing process of taking the red pill. Some of us have lost alot (financially, emotionally, and losing access to kids). I was very very fortunate in that respect because I didn’t have to pay alimony, I didn’t lose the house I bought, and I didn’t give up my pension. My lawyer fees were modest since the case was processed quickly. I did have to pay off the debts the ex racked up and the house I bought because of her, and compared to what he owes me, her debts were an order of magnitude more (and then some). He did actually help me out in those times, with his time/support.

I suppose what does surprise me is that he doesn’t see that going MGTOW saved me from being a debt slave, and thankfully I am back on my feet thanks to it. He cannot borrow off his other blue pill friends, because they are all in the same boat as him. If I followed his lead and became blue pill, I would actually demand the money off him and would be taking him to a small claims court by now !

At the time, I thought this was the best course of action. But with tough times ahead for all…did I do enough to shake him out of his blue pill madness…which, short of him winning the lottery,…is likely to end badly for him ? Should I kick a man when he is down or offer him advice that could help him (certainly not going to lend him money, ‘fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me) ? He is being stupid, but weren’t we all blue pill at one point?

I am just grateful that the money is not a big issue for me at the moment.

D. G. I. Don't. Get. Involved. (Be happy, and stress not)

[BeeParticipant 700]

The guy’s a leech. I’d cut my losses on both the loan and the friend.

[It’sallbsParticipant]

Ditcc him he is not a friend he is a parasitic leach using you.

http://www.leavemeansleave.eu

[RhinoParticipant 3477]

DaveV I understand where you are coming from I had the same thinking process when I was in my blue pill phase as well. One thing you will figure out as you get older is no matter what advice you give to a blue pill unless he already has taken the red pill anything you say to him will just make things worse because they don’t want to hear it.

Deep down these blue pill guys know that you are telling the truth but they dug such a huge hole and invested so much time, money, and effort into their relations~~~ that they would rather keep digging the hole deeper instead of jumping out into the light of day. One day when the wife finally leaves him he will realize his mistake but until then anything you tell him he will just ignore.

That is why we are telling you he is a parasite leech that will just continue to bring you down he knows you are stable financially and will continue to try to use you to help him from digging himself a deeper hole. Sometimes it is just better to let him dig and walk away eventually he will want to climb out on his own he doesn’t need you to throw a rope down to him to get out.

[DaveVParticipant 450]

Rhino wrote:

One thing you will figure out as you get older is no matter what advice you give to a blue pill unless he already has taken the red pill anything you say to him will just make things worse because they don’t want to hear it.

Yep, I hear you. It’s just tragic to see. It’s like seeing someone paddling toward a waterfall, and you are shouting, ‘turn around, and paddle the other way’.

Rhino wrote:

That is why we are telling you he is a parasite leech that will just continue to bring you down he knows you are stable financially and will continue to try to use you to help him from digging himself a deeper hole.

I hear what the guys are saying, and I do understand it. Taking the red pill has brought me clarity and serenity, and whilst I was very angry with the inherent unfairness in the system and with my ex in the years after I got divorced, I am much happier and calmer since then.

I have very little to do him these days (his wife doesn’t like me). My approach, after listening to what you are saying is, no more money, give advice without talking about MGTOW. He will probably disappear when he realizes no more money. However I do agree, until bankruptcy or divorce hit him, he will always be blue pill.

It’s funny because there are so many guys at my last work place that find themselves in that boat.

D. G. I. Don't. Get. Involved. (Be happy, and stress not)

[DaveVParticipant 450]

Lmfao at that Goodfella’s scene Russky2…good one !

D. G. I. Don't. Get. Involved. (Be happy, and stress not)

[JimBoLeaParticipant 1891]

REARLY DO WE SEE THE PART THAT WE PLAY IN ANY RELATIONSHIP. YOU HAD GIVEN HIM 7,500 TO START THINGS OFF WITH. THAT INITSELF SHOWS ME YOU ARE ENABLING HIM TO KEEP DOING HIS BEHAVIOR. YOU HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING CUT HIM OFF FROM FURTHER FUNDS. BUT AS FOR GETTING YOUR 7,500 BACK. EH UNLESS HE’S A PERSON OF GOOD CHARACTER. I DON’T THINK You’re GETTING ANY MONEY BACK. LESSON LEARNT.

LILITH IS THE HEAD SUCCUBUS AND SHE LIVES ON THE DARK SIDE OF THE MOON

[Anonymous 3]

You did the right thing.

Spending borrowed money on things, which do not help you earn money, is a huge strategic mistake! Bank loan can be a helping hand for good bussiness, but a nightmare for things that do not make profit. One has to know this.

And, for the point of view for MGTOW, having debt is a lot like being married with children. I mean, it pushes you to “be responsible”, do overtime work, must earn lot of money that you can’t spend on whatever you want, and the longer you keep it the more it costs, etc. And in case one loses job, you are in huge big trouble!

One important step of self-ownership is to not have any debt greater than one’s disposable income of one month. But it’s better to have at least 6+ months of income in spare money on the bank account.

[KevinStylesParticipant 2580]

You’re response when he said you should get married and have kids should have been something like ‘if i did that i wouldn’t have had that 7500 i’ve loaned you over the past year, id be broke like you’.

[Deadly RaverParticipant]

Yep. Letting people borrow money is usually a bad deal. I’ve been burned Even with some of my closest friends, which is why I only allow those who have paid back to get even a dime from me now.

Learn from the past, Control the present, and you will know the Future.

[DaveVParticipant 450]

Anonymous wrote:

Set up a payment schedule, put it in writing, get him to sign it.

Just to update to this. Following the comments and advice given (many thanks to ALL who commented, it made me think). Anyhow it made me call him, and I had another chat with him about this.

No, I didn’t right hook him lol, but got him to send an email, dated, with his address on. I will print off and get him to sign it later this weekend. Didn’t agree a payment schedule, that is to be agreed along with the amounts at my discretion once he gets another job. I told him I would be fair. But he at least acknowledges the debt.

He seemed happier, but I think this loan will be the least of his worries…mortgage, wife, kids, and bills.

But this will be the last time I lend money to him.

Thanks once again guys !

D. G. I. Don't. Get. Involved. (Be happy, and stress not)

[ScarberianMPTGLParticipant 3286]

Funny a topic like this came up, I could write a novel with so many stories of lending out money and having been lent money with neither party being paid back.. and being on the hook for money I never even took, that’s a whole other novel, but my philosophy now is you don’t lend me money and I don’t lend you money. Less stress that way.

I, Lelouch Vi Britannia, command you, all of you, to Go Your Own Way!!

[Anonymous 3]

I know a few stories from the old days, when men where known for their word and they had no electricity.

My grandfather went to my wife’s grandfather to ask him for money. He was one of the most respected men of the town, and at the time he had wealth. So he had his loan and honored the payment.
The reason he had to ask for money was that he was a guarantor for a bank loan. The guy toke the money and went overseas.
My grandfather was not a good judge of men… He expected everyone to share his sense of honor.
But my wife’s grandfather had another friend asking him for money, and he knew his character, so he said:
“I know that in a few years we are going to lose our friendship because you are not paying me back the money. So, if we are to stop being friends we might as well do it now, and I will save my money.”

That is a smart man and a good judge of character.

Dave,
If one is a victim of his own behaviour, we cannot save him from himself. If you get sucked in his problems, or if he dumps his problems on your shoulders, then you tie yourself to a man on a sinking boat. That man makes holes on his boat, and on yours.
He is as much of a weight as modern women or children, because he is counting on YOU to provide, when he has not accountability and feels entitled to YOUR help, because you want to do the right thing.

There is a great sentence in this site “be polite but have a plan to kill everybody in the room”. I wish I remember the genie who said it, but I think it was Jeremiah Johnson.
The core of this sentence is not that you actually kill anyone, but that you are ready to put anyone out of your life when necessary.

[DaveVParticipant 450]

Anonymous wrote:

If one is a victim of his own behaviour, we cannot save him from himself.

Totally agree. All I have left to offer him is advice. I am going to keep my distance from him. But until he repays me, I won’t cut him off completely (will email him now and again..but no more lunches !). I don’t believe he will not repay me, but the proof will be when he gets his next job.

However with the employment situation in the UK, it’s looking very very bleak for him. In all honesty, and I am not happy about seeing people flounder, he is sure fire heading to bankruptcy.

All I can say is, he did help me out when I was going through my post divorce issues. And for that, I am grateful.

Anonymous wrote:

There is a great sentence in this site “be polite but have a plan to kill everybody in the room”. I wish I remember the genie who said it

I saw that too. I googled it, and it seems to have been quoted by General Mattis. He has some interesting things to say. Not sure I would agree with everything he says, but he seems straight talking

D. G. I. Don't. Get. Involved. (Be happy, and stress not)

[Big BossParticipant 4496]

DaveV wrote:

Over that period he borrowed about £6,000 (USD$7,500) from me, which he said he would repay at the end of this year. Sadly he was told he is being made redundant shortly.

He invites me out for lunch as he wanted to ask a favour. I agreed. Aside from the fact I ended up paying for lunch as he had no money on him, credit card maxed by his missus, he wanted to find out how much cash I had spare, to help him out on his debts…..

…wait. What?! How the hell did you let your friend borrow 6,000? Then he “invites” you to lunch and you pay? Wtf? He isn’t the only blue pilled person here. Learn to say no and no thanks.

[Anonymous 3]

DaveV wrote:

All I can say is, he did help me out when I was going through my post divorce issues. And for that, I am grateful.

And so you are now there for him. It is a honorable attitude from you.

The are two types of people: the ones that base their decisions on feelings, and those that uses rules, reason and does not let themselves be affected by feelings.

Feelings are not bad, but neither are good. They can be simply wrong, and because they are based on the moment, they never include the big picture.

One can forgive a debt of a poor old man for pity. Yet, if you know that he went all his life getting money from people and never repaying, then its a totally different thing.

There are those in need that are to proud to ask for help. Nobody would feel anything for them because they do nothing to cause these feelings, and actually avoid it.
And then there are those that portray abject misery to get your pity, earning their living from the feelings they cause.

People are used to manipulate the feelings of others. Women are experts in this, they are the ultimate actors.

So I urge you to think and not feel. Did you repay your debt? Is the account settled? Is your gratitude blinding you?

Yes, you are being smart by keeping your connection to him to see if he repays its debt. But I would bet that your friend will be more elusive from now on.

DaveV wrote:

it seems to have been quoted by General Mattis.

Thank you. It was something that I kept in my mind until I finally understood it. Not sure if it was how the General ment it, tho…

To me it is a great reminder that nothing is permanent, and that you should be ready to let go what needs to go.

[DaveVParticipant 450]

Big Boss wrote:

What?! How the hell did you let your friend borrow 6,000?

It happens. Over several years, it can accumulate. It was a lucrative contract (I was freelance then) and in all honesty I didn’t consider them major amounts. Tbh at the end I had no mortgage (on my small and very modest house), sold the bike, got rid of the car on loan, and got rid of most of my ex’s credit card debts (she racked up alot more than that amount in 3 months!). She was the reason I never had any money.

It’s amazing how little you need to live, once you get rid of your debts, get rid of the ex, and have no kids and live simply. Never had much growing up, and to be honest, it’s probably why I am not really into buying stuff (unless it’s really necessary).

However things are pretty tough in the UK work market at the moment. Companies are laying off staff all over the place. Salaries/benefits cut. Taxes and cost of living is going up. I am now only finding work for 20-30% of the year, but I can get by. My colleague, having several kids, mortgage, and loans, with the potential redundancy looming, is in for some serious trouble.

Anonymous wrote:

So I urge you to think and not feel. Did you repay your debt? Is the account settled? Is your gratitude blinding you?

With the IOU he has written/signed, the debt is now formalized. Hence I could take him to a small claims court to recover some of it, if required. But my needs don’t necessitate that at the moment – and I wouldn’t ask for repayment until he finds his next job, I have agreed to that. Logic would dictate that he is on the verge of insolvency (if he doesn’t find work after he finishes up). In which case, it would not be sensible to loan him any further money. That I am sure about.

D. G. I. Don't. Get. Involved. (Be happy, and stress not)

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