Is it possible to be atheist and MGTOW?

[John DoeParticipant 743]

We had a previous and ongoing thread about Christianity and MGTOW which is interesting.  To be fair and open minded I figured I would ask my atheist friends this:

Is it possible to be atheist and MGTOW?

From my personal observation in many aspects it isn’t.  According to atheism “this is it” and in that aspect all things are material in one way or another.  This includes the brain and all thoughts and impulses attributed to it.  If this is the case than one’s view of “personal sovereignty” is directly caused and affected by particles more or less.  This in turn leaves the “particle” to be the sole decider and not the individual himself.  However, for those of you who will state “some particles are different than others thereby superior” would still be submitting to the will of the “particle” or “dark matter.”

Debate. (I would be more offended if people did not get offended, so please no holds bar.  However, this is a debate among friends, so no one is better than the other at the end of it.).

 

[UKMgtowParticipant 15]

I guess it depends  on how you define atheism, I’m sure many do so in different ways but I think by definition it is a belief in a lack of god or deities. In that sense, it’s perfectly doable to be an athiest and a MGTOW, in fact I think it’s the prime theological belief system to do so as it is the idea that we are not the product of creation but rather a highly evolved species, capable of free thought and free will; able to make decisions based on knowledge, morals and personal belief, rather than following religious texts or expectations. Once exposed to MGTOW, we gain knowledge about women, gender interaction and society that is contrary to what we previously believed,  and rather than keeping with an philosophy because it was what we know we are able to adapt accordingly.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Welcome to the forums UKMGTOW.

However you did not answer my question.  No God/gods/dieties fair enough of a definition, but it still leaves my point.

According to atheism “this is it” and in that aspect all things are material in one way or another.  This includes the brain and all thoughts and impulses attributed to it.  If this is the case than one’s view of “personal sovereignty” is directly caused and affected by particles more or less.  This in turn leaves the “particle” to be the sole decider and not the individual himself.  However, for those of you who will state “some particles are different than others thereby superior” would still be submitting to the will of the “particle” or “dark matter.”

You cannot be an MGHOW without free will.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

I am really disappointed in the lack of discussion in this topic.

I could barely get even an imaginative response which really makes me questions Atheism even more.  For all the “glory” atheists claim the imaginative mind brings, it really seems that atheism is a deathblow to the logical mind’s ability to create anything or any thought of real substantial value or meaning.

Question Christianity and everyone gets upset, question Atheism and I barely get a response.  I guess even “evil” proves the existence of God.

[Anonymous 23]

In my opinion, the world would be a far better place without the concept of Religion or lack of Religion. If you look back through the history of the human race, pretty much every single negative event was caused by someone’s belief or lack or belief in a higher power(s).

Personally as atheism/religion has no impact on my life, I simply do not care. 🙂

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Finally some discussion. I was becoming real disappointed for a second.

Apparently it affected you enough to share your beliefs, to study history, and develop a personal philosophy.

If you look back through the history of the human race, pretty much every single negative event was caused by someone’s belief or lack or belief in a higher power(s).

You are part of history my friend, just as I am.  You just stated in this line that in some way shape or form you were effected.

Personally as atheism/religion has no impact on my life, I simply do not care.

Now you state it does not affect you.  Make up your mind.  I don’t understand what you are saying, and I don’t think you do either.

 

[Anonymous 42]

Here my thoughts… I’ll not let anything confine my thinking (boxed in). All boxes have an inside, and an outside, I chose outside, and still have the freedom to look inside. Whereas from the inside, that’s all you know……

[John DoeParticipant 743]

To acknowledge a box still limits one’s thinking to the box, putting us essentially back in the box.

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Atheism and Agnosticism are intellectual fads.  Islam and Judaism will wipe themselves out eventually.  Leaving us with a very weak Christianity and possible “new” religion to come to the surface once people tire of Atheism and Agnosticism.

[Anonymous 42]

To acknowledge a box exists, strikes ones curiosity as to what’s outside the box, and when one journeys there, finds himself in yet another larger box…With questions come answers, and with answers come questions……………………

[John DoeParticipant 743]

With questions come answers, and with answers come questions

and yet an unquestionable truth can be observed in this statement.

So we can know some things.

[Anonymous 42]

Absolutely!

[John DoeParticipant 743]

Well, we can agree on something.  No applause necessary.

[DybbukParticipant 182]

I am really disappointed in the lack of discussion in this topic.

That’s because this topic is taking something super simple and turning it into something complicated, which strikes people as a headache and a waste of time. “Going your own way” becomes a meaningless phrase if the “your own” part is subject to an endless list of caveats based upon tortuous mental masturbation.

 

[John DoeParticipant 743]

That’s because this topic is taking something super simple and turning it into something complicated, which strikes people as a headache and a waste of time. “Going your own way” becomes a meaningless phrase if the “your own” part is subject to an endless list of caveats based upon tortuous mental masturbation.

You still have not answered the thread question.  I am not here for you “opinions”.  They “strike people as a headache and waste of time.” I don’t want this thread to turn into that.

[DoctorBoratParticipant -49]

Religion is a belief in an omnipotent entity. Atheism is a belief in the non-existence of such entity. It is possible to be an atheist and MGTOW at the same time because they do not contradict one another.

[Krab_AssParticipant 267]

Yes – It is possible to be atheist and MGTOW.    Just as it is possible to be a satanic worshiper and be MGTOW or a believer in God and be MGTOW, or a Jew, Muslim, Buddhist (etc, etc) and be MGTOW.

The only person that cannot be MGTOW is a pussy-whipped male who constantly seeks her approval or acceptance with anything he does.

IMHO – of course…

"I care not what others think of what I do, but I care very much about what I think of what I do! That is character!"
~ Theodore Roosevelt

[McLocoParticipant 14]

Concering the “this is it” stance, in my mind that makes it even more important to be a MGHOW, this is it and you have to make sure that you live this life to the benefit of yourself rather than a god be it the one in the sky or the one between a bitches legs. When it comes to the particle thing, it is not up to any individual particle in your brain but how they interconnect. Go far enough down in scale and there is no will beeing put on anything by anything. That beeing said, atheism does not take a stand on that.

[GoneGaltParticipant 361]

From my personal observation in many aspects it isn’t.  According to atheism “this is it” and in that aspect all things are material in one way or another.  This includes the brain and all thoughts and impulses attributed to it.  If this is the case than one’s view of “personal sovereignty” is directly caused and affected by particles more or less.  This in turn leaves the “particle” to be the sole decider and not the individual himself.  However, for those of you who will state “some particles are different than others thereby superior” would still be submitting to the will of the “particle” or “dark matter.”

Simple concept – in other words materialism precludes agents such as a ‘soul’ which would exercise ‘free will’, or your ‘personal sovereignty’ phrase for atheists since they believe there is no ‘soul’ at least not the way most religions conceive of it.

For me, I think there is no conflict because as I am typing my thoughts on this concept there is a higher awareness (HA) in my brain that allows me to both process your words into concepts and formulate my reply to them as well, and my fingers are mechanically typing my response without me even been actively aware of the keys I’m pressing from so much practice. By HA I mean that I can think, decide which action to pursue and form very complex thoughts that the simple atoms and subatomic particles that form my brain et all and the energy supplied by my body by themselves individually are incapable of. Just as one-celled organisms react to their environment, it’s possible that’s exactly what humans are doing, only at a higher level, just as the level of awareness varies from almost zero to extremely primitive organism to human awareness at our level. In essence, if I understand what you’re driving at correctly, you’re asking the age-old question of determinism vs. free will:

determinism –  the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.

free will – the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one’s own discretion.

Simple answer – I don’t know because if I did for certain I would make history. Perhaps I live in a virtual reality universe, too, a computer simulation of incredible complexity in which I am an AI who has become self aware – perhaps I’m still in the Matrix and only think I’ve taken the red pill (Agent Smith dyed my blue pill red). I can’t know for certain, but I do know this: if it was my ‘free will’ or some random particle collision in my brain made me choose MGTOW it’s irrelevant to me as long as I can experience the results in my life that bring me happiness.

If I analyze things too closely all of the time then the rest of my life will pass by without me experiencing much joy in it – I’ve spent my fair time doing just that but since I know the answers are unknowable I’ve chosen not to overdo it, so whether I drank that 4th beer out of free will or because I had no choice I really don’t care. 😉

 

[WandersmannParticipant 27]

I guess it depends  on how you define atheism

Yes, for a proper discussion “atheist” and “MGTOW” must be clearly defined.

 

 

A diagram showing the relationship between the definitions of weak/strong and implicit/explicit atheism.
Explicit strong/positive/hard atheists (in purple on the right) assert that “at least one deity exists” is a false statement.
Explicit weak/negative/soft atheists (in blue on the right) reject or eschew belief that any deities exist without actually asserting that “at least one deity exists” is a false statement.
Implicit weak/negative atheists (in blue on the left) would include people (such as young children and some agnostics) who do not believe in a deity, but have not explicitly rejected such belief.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

Which definition are you referring to?

The reason no one asks this question a lot is because most people have preconceived ideas and notions about what an Atheist is and is not. Where these preconceived ideas come from varies, but they tend to evolve from theistic influences or other sources.

http://atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism

The following statement of yours is an example of this:

According to atheism “this is it” and in that aspect all things are material in one way or another.  This includes the brain and all thoughts and impulses attributed to it.

I suggest you make clear whether you mean strong or weak atheism and don’t interpret things into the definition that it doesn’t include.

 

Atheism and Agnosticism are intellectual fads.

“Weak” atheism as per the definition above (as well as agnosticism) is the rational stance for someone who cares about TRUTH and intellectual honesty (rather than comfort) because there is NO SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE for the existence or non-existence of a personal God. The Christian concept of God (which differs among believers due to different interpretations) is one of hundreds of others by the way. You might as well believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, there’s no proof/disproof for that concept either.

 

I could barely get even an imaginative response which really makes me questions Atheism even more.  For all the “glory” atheists claim the imaginative mind brings, it really seems that atheism is a deathblow to the logical mind’s ability to create anything or any thought of real substantial value or meaning.

Yeah like a lack of belief in fairies is a “deathblow to the logical mind’s ability to create anything or any thought of real substantial value or meaning”. Questioning atheism “even more” based on the number of answers in a forum thread is just ridiculous.

I’m not sure if this topic is even worth replying to because of your apparent irrationality. Same with the other thread, your last response is just ludicrous. I’ll go ahead an debunk it but I doubt you’ll get it. When people are deeply invested in their beliefs arguing with them is pointless. It’s just one misconception after the other and debunking that s~~~ is tiring.

 

The only person that cannot be MGTOW is a pussy-whipped male who constantly seeks her approval or acceptance with anything he does.

Isn’t a believer essentially God-whipped and gets his approval and acceptance from him? I mean religion has it all; a set of rules, comforting beliefs (e.g. about the afterlife), someone to worship and hand over personal responsibility to, companionship. Or asked the other way around, aren’t women goddesses to blue pill men and pussy worship their religion? Again, a set of rules, someone to worship, companionship, less personal responsibility, acceptance…

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