Is happiness a delusion?

[AFTParticipant 2722]

There is social expectations about the importance of happiness. We are all expected to be happy or striving for that state. It’s even in the constitution.

A person who is sane, and up to date with the latest news of what’s going on around him, surely has to be delusional in order to be happy. In order to be happy, you have to be delusional, because if you have a sane grasp of what’s going on it would be impossible to be happy.

I look back at the happiest times in my own life, and they were all just before a great big treacherous betrayal that brought me into the cold hard reality of life, bursting my fantasy bubble of delusioned happiness.

So now I wonder whether seeking happiness is possible at all, or whether I need to institute a controlled delusion, one that is based on eliminating those great big risks of being betrayed.

So on a practical level, there are delusions of believing in other people’s good nature and setting yourself up for betrayal and disappointment, that need to be eliminated. Then there are other delusions where you accept other peoples self interest but believe everything will be good because you believe in yourself, and your ability to overcome and out maneuver.

So the hypotheses is that happiness is a delusion, and the safest form of that is where you protect against other people by assuming their self interest, leaving only outcomes and yourself and your own actions to be manifested in fantasy.

Moving forward, an unconditional expectation of other’s self interest and treachery is assumed, mitigating your loss in the event of betrayal. Whilst insuring the best most pragmatic decisions and actions are taken. Leaving little room for delusions, other than those of yourself, which are never at risk of betrayal.

That leaves little room for trust, but it is better to not trust and be pleasantly surprised than vice versa. The whole idea revolves around lasting happiness based on prudent decisions made relying on healthy skepticism.

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Thank you for the inspiring thought.

AFT wrote:

There is social expectations about the importance of happiness.

I think it’s bulls~~~. A man is happy when he is CONTENT. When he is content, happiness is certain to follow.
Because when a man is content… he’s doing very well.

I thought about this when I was once out with a girlfriend having a quiet outdoor lunch under an open sky. Nothing was wrong. The birds were shining, the sun was singing and it was a fine day. The woman I was with ruined a perfectly fine day, and I have seen this a f~~~-hundred times.

She was “not haaaaaaaapy” and she threw it at me across the table out of nowhere, and I found myself asking “what’s wrong?”. Then I stopped myself. Why am I asking her “what’s wrong” like her problem is mine to fix? There was no reason to start any drama. None! She was a “happy” chaser. If she wasn’t high on happy there was always something wrong – even when there wasn’t. She had NOTHING to complain about, so she created something to complain about.

Her happiness is not my cardio.

I see women chasing “happy” all the time, and throw the word around like a frisbee:

• “I just want her to be HAPPY”…
• “I just want to be HAPPY”….
• “I deserve to be HAPPY”
• “She LOOKS happy” (?)
• “I hope you’re HAPPY”
• “Yes, but are you HAPPY?”

No. I’m HAPPY when I am content. Because as a man, I know the VALUE of being content. It’s not free. I’m not ENTITLED to being “happy”. The world doesn’t OWE me happiness. I don’t know why women behave like other people owe them personal happiness, but I can’t even listen to it. Happily married dreaming of divorce. WTF is that s~~~.

In an endless list of diatribes about her own husband’s inadequacies while pretending she’s “happily married”, and together with the girlfriend above (and a million other examples), I concluded women are “happy” when they are complaining. So their idea of “happy” is a place I wouldn’t even want to go, thankyouvvvvvvverymuch.

I want to be CONTENT in peace and quiet …. and that’s when I’m “happy”.
Free from humanity’s mad inhuman noise. Being content is where it’s at.

I explained this to a woman once, she didn’t get it. At all.
Too bad. Chasing “happy” is the BEST way to be miserable.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[mp357Participant 531]

Good post,in my opinion this expectation of happiness is just part of our feminized modern culture.Women constantly chase it and blue pillers are always tripping over themselves to provide it. You do have to have a certain level of delusion to be happy,keymaster is right about being content,if you can achieve contentment i think thats more than enough

[AFTParticipant 2722]

AFT wrote:

So now I wonder whether seeking happiness is possible at all

Keymaster wrote:

A man is happy when he is CONTENT. When he is content, happiness is certain to follow.
Because when a man is content… he’s doing very well.

…..

I’m HAPPY when I am content. Because as a man, I know the VALUE of being content. It’s not free. I’m not ENTITLED to being “happy”. The world doesn’t OWE me happiness.

…..

I concluded women are “happy” when they are complaining. So their idea of “happy” is a place I wouldn’t even want to go

…..

I want to be CONTENT in peace and quiet …. and that’s when I’m “happy”.
Free from humanity’s mad inhuman noise. Being content is where it’s at.

…..

Chasing “happy” is the BEST way to be miserable.

Nice perspective, that insight shifts the focus where it’s needed, happiness as a byproduct and a choice, satisfaction and being content, is the goal, greatly appreciated.

Importantly being satisfied and content is all inward, it is a reflection of the acceptance and peace within.

Well said sir.

mp357 wrote:

,in my opinion this expectation of happiness is just part of our feminized modern culture.

Exactly, happiness all of a sudden has become elevated to the highest order, as a result of feminized society. Historically men always knew what mattered, and it certainly wasn’t happiness, or at least it wasn’t at the apex of life.

In order to achieve contentment and satisfaction, a certain level of sacrifice is required. Hard work, dedication and discipline they’re the things that are required for a satisfied content man, none of them necessitate happiness.

When the war cemeteries are half full of the corpses of dead conscripted women, only then will women have earned the right to speak of equality. Sidecar “A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.” - Bob Dylan

[KeymasterKeymaster]

mp357 wrote:

Women constantly chase it and blue pillers are always tripping over themselves to provide it.

I wonder how early this starts. In the crib? Because I have seen little girls and boys crying, and when a girl falls down and hits her head, it’s “OMG are you OK?”… when a boy does it, it’s “oh he’ll be fine” even when he’s in some PAIN!

We see value in contentment just when things are not wrong. Maintaining an even strain. Checking stuff out. Not smiling, but still quite “happy” because the car didn’t break down. The bills are paid. No debt. A day to do what I want! Men are quite “happy” sitting on the water catching no fish! I know I am. That’s a GREAT day. Catch a fish? Bonus!

A woman can have $20K of credit card debt and still go out shopping, drinking and laughing with her besties! HOW is that even possible!

A man actually CELEBRATES having no debt.

AFT wrote:

greatly appreciated.

It take LESS — far less — to make a man grateful.
That’s a fact.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[HitmanParticipant]

in the Art Of Happiness by The Dalai Lama ,
he explains that happiness is something we “practice ”
we decide to be happy,
every day .
it becomes habit, the way we are..
the same things come along , we deal with them..
and go back to being happy.
Happiness is a choice we make,
Abraham Lincoln said ,
“A man is as happy as he makes up his mind to be ”
it’s up to you brothers..
don’t wait for it..CHOOSE it .

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

“Contrary to common belief, happiness is not a feeling. Those who imagine it is a feeling frequently spend a lifetime searching to achieve happiness, as though it can be captured by pursuit, strategy or effort. All they achieve from this grasping attitude is ultimate disappointment, because happiness in made up of nothing at all if is a condition of being. It either is or it is not. I cannot be made, achieved, or found, as if it were some external thing to be gained by search. It forever eludes those who try to grasp it.”

“Happiness is the condition that ensues when all seeking, grasping or desire for anything outside the immediate situation has stopped. It is the condition that exists when all feeling of poverty, need, insufficiency and comparison has stopped – a condition when desire is absent.”

Willard and Marguerite Beecher. Beyond Success and Failure: Ways to Self-Reliance and Maturity

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

“Serenity is the condition of the mind when we have given up all demands and expectations of achieving rewards. We can have no desire for a goal or purpose, for objectives and ambitions are hostile to the spontaneous working of the mind.”

Page 14, Willard and Marguerite Beecher. The Sin of Obedience.

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

“Happiness seeks nothing outside itself; pleasure seeks constant rewards and tidbits. Happiness simply is. It has no cause and does not depend on outside props to hold it up. It is a condition when there is no separation between the doer and doing, when there is a release from self-criticism, self-evaluation, self-consciousness. When the ego is nonexistent to make comparisons or seek approval. The moment an individual reaches out of the unconscious condition and brings conscious thinking, evaluation, planning, desire or ambition back into the situation, the spell is broken. He is plunged back into the hell of endless seeking, the desire for rewards, personal assurances, compensations and securities.”

Willard and Marguerite Beecher. Beyond Success and Failure: Ways to Self-Reliance and Maturity.

[atlasParticipant 285]

@hitman well said.

@forewarned I disagree with this:

Badger wrote:

“Serenity is the condition of the mind when we have given up all demands and expectations of achieving rewards. We can have no desire for a goal or purpose, for objectives and ambitions are hostile to the spontaneous working of the mind.”

Happiness is not a feeling, it is a way of life. As such, action and purpose are essential to happiness. Purpose comes from ambition. The working mind lays out the path(s) to achieve that ambition.

When people say “it’s about the journey, not the destination”, that to me is the definition of happiness. Because it is in working toward your goals and ambitions that you are bettering yourself. When you achieve your goals, you set new ones, and re-dedicate yourself to achieving those. The only limits on your ability to achieve are the those you place on yourself, limits accepted either consciously or subconsciously. I believe that with every fiber of my being.

Since many have tossed in pertinent quotes, I’ll add one also: “There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.” – Ernest Hemingway

“We are on strike, we, the men of the mind. We are on strike against self-immolation. We are on strike against the creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties. We are on strike against the dogma that the pursuit of one's happiness is evil. We are on strike against the doctrine that life is guilt.”

[ShinyParticipant 2307]

Hitman wrote:

we decide to be happy,
every day .

I totally agree with that, happiness is a choice. You can see something as an obstacle to ruin your life or as a challenge to make you better. It’s your choice.

A motivational thing I was listening to today (I swear the guy sounded like Tom Selleck) was talking about how, in our pursuit of happiness, we often act as though we have to get rid of our flaws, overcome our problems, to be happy. He made the point that this puts happiness off in the future, based on an abstract idea rather than a quantifiable goal, and since there will always be flaws and problems, means we never get there. You have to find your happiness right now where you are. I certainly got something out of that idea.

[BadgerParticipant 2277]

atlas, I think if you read the entire book they would agree with your view that is the journey to the goal that counts. They should have made their wording clearer in that “We can have no desire for a goal or purpose” should have referred to the reward. If one is rewarded after working towards a goal, fine. They point out in text that is omitted that it is when you DEMAND the reward that happiness disappears. They are not against setting goals or working for them, just the demand that they those goals must be rewarded.

[atlasParticipant 285]

@forewarned ah, I see. In that light, I definitely agree that doing things with the primary motivation being the expectation of reward or recognition from others is a surefire way to be disappointed and miserable. No one can fully appreciate the effort and meaning behind actions than the person performing the actions.

Thank you for clarifying my perception!

“We are on strike, we, the men of the mind. We are on strike against self-immolation. We are on strike against the creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties. We are on strike against the dogma that the pursuit of one's happiness is evil. We are on strike against the doctrine that life is guilt.”

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Hitman wrote:

Abraham Lincoln said “A man is as happy as he makes up his mind to be ”

I love that.

But if anyone figures out how to just switch it on like that, please tell me how.

On Tuesday, I found myself an all-new environment with a few people I had never met and only knew one of them. So I was more of an observer that a participant, but within a very short while, I watched it turn into a bitch session. About all kinds of mundane s~~~. Didn’t get why it turned into that at all.

There are forces at work that make “choosing” it easier said that done. Just maintaining a stable environment (let alone a “happy” one) is a challenge around some people.

But as far “choosing” it is concerned, only a couple of years ago, I consciously began carving toxic people out of my life. Best thing really. If the job sucks, get rid of it. If someone is no fun to be around. Get rid of them. This has worked out rather well and I wished I started sooner.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[chirParticipant]

Key to happiness is enjoying life while you still have it, can’t enjoy it when you are dead…. To many people have become zombified.

Don’t let the little kid in you die. If you can watch “The Three Stooges” and still get a giggle watching the slapstick comedy or watch “Abbott and Costello” and still laugh like hell at “Who’s on first”… There is hope for you.

Ahem… Case in point.

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning; it is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

[Anonymous 54]

Happyness is temporary.When your team wins the championship ect.Like KM said its more about being content.Why do you need to be happy ALL the time? Thats Mania.Would happyness exist without suffering to compare it to?Sometimes life is just about work.An even nutural mood.Happyness canot be constantly maintained.You would have to be constantly uping the anti.Yes contentment is the anwser.But..women wont like your being content. It means your not upgradeing. They will sabotage your contentness. A Man can only be content when he is alone.

[The Laughing ManParticipant 1020]

Men:
Peace = happiness

Women:
Happiness = disrupting peace

I thought what I'd do was I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes...or should I?

[Anonymous 54]

chir wrote:

Key to happiness is enjoying life while you still have it, can’t enjoy it when you are dead…. To many people have become zombified.

Don’t let the little kid in you die. If you can watch “The Three Stooges” and still get a giggle watching the slapstick comedy or watch “Abbott and Costello” and still laugh like hell at “Who’s on first”… There is hope for you.

Ahem… Case in point.

Hahha whos on first !! I have often thoght that the happiest time in life is when you are 10 or 12 years old. Before you have reached pubertly witch f~~~s it all up.Every thing was cool and you wanted to try it. Try to recapture that feeling. @Hit Man. Wasnt Abe lincon depressed most of the time? I like his qoute,but i dont know if he ever really got there himself. Understandably so.

[KeymasterKeymaster]

Anonymous wrote:

Why do you need to be happy ALL the time? Thats Mania.Would happyness exist without suffering to compare it to?

That’s just it Old Sage. Well said.

When my mother sits down to have tea and cookies, she STILL looks around for a moment and says “ach! haven wir es gut”. She’s from Germany and was a child in WW2 and the simple act of having a cup of tea and cookies makes her say “Gosh isn’t this nice”.

In terms of integers, you have experience -10 just to appreciate 0.

The Laughing Man wrote:

Men:
Peace = happiness

Women:
Happiness = disrupting peace

She also had an uncanny knack for that when Dad would be in a room off doing his own thing.

If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.

[mp357Participant 531]

as far as happiness being a choice i would love to know how to do that, ive never been able to just flick it on like a lightswitch

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