Introduction!

[theseekerParticipant 32]

Hi I am new here. I just wrote a whopper of an informative post over in general called “List of things ALL MEN should know about the law regarding women/children”

So about me…

I am 40 and long time single, never married, no kids (well my sperm was privately donated to a lesbian couple here in NY… fingers crossed.) I would like to have a kid or 2 someday. I am willing to commit to a woman to raise a family, but I will never get married or take any bulls~~~.

I have clearly been a beta male while I was a clueless blue piller, and I have only ever slept with one woman. I believe this as a result of my rough upbringing. My “father” was extremely neglectful while his girlfriend emotionally and psychologically abused me from age 12-17. There were other things just as bad but an example… she made me burn my Christmas presents from my mother in the garbage burning barrel as a punishment for who knows what. I was not a bad child. The worst I did was forget to take out the garbage, steal change, or not “ask her about her day.” I got good grades, and until I started acting out at 16, no problems at school. She did many other things just as bad as that incident and my father did nothing about them except take me to counseling. Come to find out that the only reason he kept me around was because I was adopted, and was worth the equivalent of over $1500 now-dollars every month. He didn’t care about me, only that he was getting the pussy, while she used me as her personal kicking mule. I didn’t know about the adoption but after I found out it explained so much that I didn’t speak for 3 days, because I was too busy putting two and two together. He spent more on beer and cigarettes than me. Her kids got better treatment and better things even though I was worth income. I didn’t feel welcome, wanted, or cared for at home. It was damaging. I felt betrayed. I think it caused PTSD. I adopted the coping strategy of immediately not trusting men, and being scared to death of women, irrationally, especially if I was attracted to a female. So I joined the Army, where there is 95% men and used my tough guy aura to suppress all this stuff I should have dealt with as a teenager, but didn’t get to until the last few years.

The good things is that I mostly didn’t get involved with women at all as much as possible, but the bad thing was that I wanted to, but felt very defective. Fortunately I do not have much baggage from adult male=female relationships because I became love-shy (its a real thing, look it up… it is the ultimate failed beta male.) But I do have a lot of baggage from family dysfunction, and my male-male relationships have sometimes gone very bad. I refused to be mentored because of my distrust and I am still overly independent, aloof, and appear cold, distant, and emotionless to many people. It was just my way of coping that hardened into a rigid personality where basically “How can I trust anyone to be for me if my own family betrayed me?”

Yes I understand there are whole groups of people which had it worse… holocaust survivors, children in war torn Sudan and Angola, or children who starved to death. But most middle class or white Americans did not have to deal with the constant s~~~ that I did. I was drugged by a 17 year old male foster kid when I was 3, and who knows what he did while I was under, but I was so afraid of the toilet that I s~~~ on the floor for a year. And no one ever knew about it because he threatened my life by squeezing my jaw so hard and shaking my head yes while he repeated the lies that he made me adopt. Welcome to life kid. My adoptive parents got divorced when I was 4. My dad pulled some tricks and got custody, then remarried an alcoholic (my sisters Mom, while not perfect, was the only person that I never doubted loved me, but also  was not fully functional.) They had a son (his first real son) when I was 10, and then things changed for me. He was also cheating on his wife with her sister, who then because the evil raging bitch step-mom from ages 12 to 17. Then when he stopped getting my welfare checks at 18 because I went in the Army, she kicked him out our house and took it (long story.) So this woman stole her sister’s husband, abused her kids, and then when she was done stole everything of value from the family. And since she is my mom’s sister she is still family though I refuse to see her or talk to her.

So I am still trying to figure out how to not be afraid of women I am attracted to… but when I look around and read your stories, I see that my fear is also justified. For the longest I longed to be in an LTR. Deep down I still do, but that has been tempered with plenty of caution.

What I like about MGTOW is that there is no one path. The only ideology is that we GO OUR OWN WAY. I don’t think we kid ourselves about being one single minded movement like the supposed feminists and MRMers. I think we all choose our own path and this is just a support group with plenty of help, warnings, and encouragement to find our path. I still want kids and I still hold out some hope for an LTR (no marriage and no I will not take bulls~~~.) But after being a beta so long, I hope I can become an Alpha also. My path is not walking completely away from women, but finding some rare middle ground that supports that fact that both men and women have problems with this system called American society, and most importantly, not allowing myself to be walked on in any way. I also have to overcome that I feel that I look ugly and unattractive, have no sense of style, am still lagging in social skills, and although I am in great shape physically I am turning middle aged and slightly slowing down. The one thing I have going for me is intelligence and potentially a good income if I can kick the PTSD. Intelligence and being in good shape for my age has not proven to be enough thus far, so I am looking into plenty of ways for self improvement. I have under taken many positive changes to get to where I am at, which is plenty better that the complete shell of a 20 year old tortuous man that I was, but I know I am not prime dating material as is. I don’t know if this is even a primary concern though I would love to have a decent woman if one exists who is good for mw.

So I hope I feel welcome here, and find my way to a more enjoyable life.

Hi I am new here. I just wrote a whopper of an informative post over in general called “List of things ALL MEN should know about the law regarding women/children”

So about me…

I am 40 and long time single, never married, no kids (well my sperm was privately donated to a lesbian couple here in NY… fingers crossed.) I would like to have a kid or 2 someday. I am willing to commit to a woman to raise a family, but I will never get married or take any bulls~~~.

I have clearly been a beta male while I was a clueless blue piller, and I have only ever slept with one woman. I believe this as a result of my rough upbringing. My “father” was extremely neglectful while his girlfriend emotionally and psychologically abused me from age 12-17. There were other things just as bad but an example… she made me burn my Christmas presents from my mother in the garbage burning barrel as a punishment for who knows what. I was not a bad child. The worst I did was forget to take out the garbage, steal change, or not “ask her about her day.” I got good grades, and until I started acting out at 16, no problems at school. She did many other things just as bad as that incident and my father did nothing about them except take me to counseling. Come to find out that the only reason he kept me around was because I was adopted, and was worth the equivalent of over $1500 now-dollars every month. He didn’t care about me, only that he was getting the pussy, while she used me as her personal kicking mule. I didn’t know about the adoption but after I found out it explained so much that I didn’t speak for 3 days, because I was too busy putting two and two together. He spent more on beer and cigarettes than me. Her kids got better treatment and better things even though I was worth income. I didn’t feel welcome, wanted, or cared for at home. It was damaging. I felt betrayed. I think it caused PTSD. I adopted the coping strategy of immediately not trusting men, and being scared to death of women, irrationally, especially if I was attracted to a female. So I joined the Army, where there is 95% men and used my tough guy aura to suppress all this stuff I should have dealt with as a teenager, but didn’t get to until the last few years.

The good things is that I mostly didn’t get involved with women at all as much as possible, but the bad thing was that I wanted to, but felt very defective. Fortunately I do not have much baggage from adult male=female relationships because I became love-shy (its a real thing, look it up… it is the ultimate failed beta male.) But I do have a lot of baggage from family dysfunction, and my male-male relationships have sometimes gone very bad. I refused to be mentored because of my distrust and I am still overly independent, aloof, and appear cold, distant, and emotionless to many people. It was just my way of coping that hardened into a rigid personality where basically “How can I trust anyone to be for me if my own family betrayed me?”

Yes I understand there are whole groups of people which had it worse… holocaust survivors, children in war torn Sudan and Angola, or children who starved to death. But most middle class or white Americans did not have to deal with the constant s~~~ that I did. I was drugged by a 17 year old male foster kid when I was 3, and who knows what he did while I was under, but I was so afraid of the toilet that I s~~~ on the floor for a year. And no one ever knew about it because he threatened my life by squeezing my jaw so hard and shaking my head yes while he repeated the lies that he made me adopt. Welcome to life kid. My adoptive parents got divorced when I was 4. My dad pulled some tricks and got custody, then remarried an alcoholic (my sisters Mom, while not perfect, was the only person that I never doubted loved me, but also  was not fully functional.) They had a son (his first real son) when I was 10, and then things changed for me. He was also cheating on his wife with her sister, who then because the evil raging bitch step-mom from ages 12 to 17. Then when he stopped getting my welfare checks at 18 because I went in the Army, she kicked him out our house and took it (long story.) So this woman stole her sister’s husband, abused her kids, and then when she was done stole everything of value from the family. And since she is my mom’s sister she is still family though I refuse to see her or talk to her.

So I am still trying to figure out how to not be afraid of women I am attracted to… but when I look around and read your stories, I see that my fear is also justified. For the longest I longed to be in an LTR. Deep down I still do, but that has been tempered with plenty of caution.

What I like about MGTOW is that there is no one path. The only ideology is that we GO OUR OWN WAY. I don’t think we kid ourselves about being one single minded movement like the supposed feminists and MRMers. I think we all choose our own path and this is just a support group with plenty of help, warnings, and encouragement to find our path. I still want kids and I still hold out some hope for an LTR (no marriage and no I will not take bulls~~~.) But after being a beta so long, I hope I can become an Alpha also. My path is not walking completely away from women, but finding some rare middle ground that supports that fact that both men and women have problems with this system called American society, and most importantly, not allowing myself to be walked on in any way. I also have to overcome that I feel that I look ugly and unattractive, have no sense of style, am still lagging in social skills, and although I am in great shape physically I am turning middle aged and slightly slowing down. The one thing I have going for me is intelligence and potentially a good income if I can kick the PTSD. Intelligence and being in good shape for my age has not proven to be enough thus far, so I am looking into plenty of ways for self improvement. I have under taken many positive changes to get to where I am at, which is plenty better that the complete shell of a 20 year old tortuous man that I was, but I know I am not prime dating material as is. I don’t know if this is even a primary concern though I would love to have a decent woman if one exists who is good for mw.

So I hope I feel welcome here, and find my way to a more enjoyable life.

[ILiveAgainParticipant]

You are very welcome … you have a dick …. I would hope ☺

Now is YOUR path …. nobody here is going to try and divert you from it.

We can offer our thoughts but it’s you that steers the course.

The past is exactly that …. the past. Take lessons from it but put it behind you.

Today … right now …. is the new you. How wonderful a feeling.

DON’T DON’T DON’T bend to any man or woman. They MUST earn any respect you give them. Cast them out if they don’t measure up.

Walk tall and make your path.

[FrankyParticipant 2338]

You sound extremely blue pill.(I don’t mean to sound insulting)

[theseekerParticipant 32]

No offense taken. Its a reflection if where i came from. I was raised blue pill through and through, snd i am sure that i have sone ideas that still need to be changed. If there is such thing as a moderate here than i am one. I am here because i am open to some things, but not everything people say here. That is part of going your own way, so i should fit in.

here are some things i have going for me, as well as against me, according to what i know about current movements.

against me… I still want kids. This is healthy and natural, and if there were no men left that wanted this, then we are less than 100 years from extinction.

for me… I realize that having kids requires a female, and the best case scenario is one that I can live with, and that these women are extremely rare especially among Western or American women.

against me… I will never adopt the belief that ALL women are the enemy. I can agree that many women are enemies and may end up believing that most women are, but not all. How will that belief that all women are bad help me?

for me… A large majority of women who identify with feminism are the enemy

Against me… The odds of finding a good woman. Nuff said

For me…. Openness to foreign women and caution about all women. I need to develop my own tests to hit everything that i am looking for.

against me… I do believe in equality of humans

for me… But i believe that equality doesn’t mean the same exact thing for the sexes. We are inherently built differently, and are biologically programmed differently. I still believe in some roles that would be considered old fashioned based on differences.

for me… I pay attention to red flags and call them out

against me… Women are cunning linguists so i am sure to miss some red flags. Part if the reason i am here.

for me… I don’t believe in unconditional love. I never received it except from my mom occassionally, and i sure aint giving it. I have standards. A woman found wanting will not do. I will not enter into any legal contracts with potential lovers… No marriage, no shared accounts, no shared leases or rents (on the contract.) We will share paying for things and that can be income based.

Against me… The system

for me… Realization that the system is against me, and a growingly keen awareness about how to combat this.

overall i still want a female partner and i hope that i can find one where we can together forge our own idea what is equal for us, starting with these things. No marriage as it puts us on unequal footing. Either one of us can leave the relationship at any time with dignity intact. All treatment and expectations are assumed equal, unless explicitly stated, discussed and agreed upon (we will have a lot to talk about.) once we agree on something it goes into writing and there is no backing out unless both agree to change it. If one has the feeing that the deal is not held up, then as stated before, anyone may leave with dignity. No vengeful people allowed (there, i just struck out at least 3/4 of women.)

i willfully am stuck in middle ground because i still want a woman (or women) and kids. Maybe i am purple pill. So be it.

 

 

 

 

[EdogParticipant 254]

Welcome to the manospehere bro.

theseeker wrote:

against me… I still want kids. This is healthy and natural, and if there were no men left that wanted this, then we are less than 100 years from extinction.

This is subjective. Yes, I’ll agree this is what’s considered ‘normal’ behavior since it’s the standard that society tends to conform to. But is it healthy? This can certainly be discussed in more than one light, and many here could show that it’s really not that healthy, for the parents or the kids. It’s subjective. Depends on a long list of criteria as to whether or not this is healthy. Natural? Again, this as well can be argued from many perspectives. bilogically, yes, this would be considered natural. However, many of us here would suggest it’s ‘natural’ for men to go their own way after observing what society considers to be ‘healthy and normal’.

theseeker wrote:

for me… I realize that having kids requires a female, and the best case scenario is one that I can live with, and that these women are extremely rare especially among Western or American women.

Good luck. You’ll need it.

theseeker wrote:

against me… I will never adopt the belief that ALL women are the enemy. I can agree that many women are enemies and may end up believing that most women are, but not all. How will that belief that all women are bad help me?

You believe in unicorns. I think we all do to some extent. As you said, it’s not likely that “all” females are wretched and horrible creatures. There ‘has’ to be at least a few good ones, right? But this is needle in a haystack time. How many women can you meet in a year? How many can you assess in that time frame? 10? 20? 100? How many do you truly think will be any different than the next? How many times have you watched Monster Hunter? Isn’t it funny how the entire episode is dedicated to finding a specific creature, yet when the video ends, there is still absolutely zero actual evidence of it existing. Curious huh? It’s propaganda. If you can bring us evidence of a unicorn existing, I’m quite sure we would all marvel at the spectacle. I’ve never seen one myself.

theseeker wrote:

for me… I don’t believe in unconditional love. I never received it except from my mom occassionally, and i sure aint giving it. I have standards. A woman found wanting will not do. I will not enter into any legal contracts with potential lovers… No marriage, no shared accounts, no shared leases or rents (on the contract.) We will share paying for things and that can be income based.

Sounds like a lot of work just for a vagina, especially the part where you tell the female she’s not getting a wedding and a marriage, she still has to produce a child/children, and has to pay her own way for a long list of things. I just don’t see this playing out. Females are not going to accept equal terms. It’s not about equality for them. It’s about superiority.

theseeker wrote:

Against me… The system

In a big way.

theseeker wrote:

for me… Realization that the system is against me, and a growingly keen awareness about how to combat this.

Going your own way is the only way to combat the system. The only way to win, is to not play the game. But you seem intent on playing the game, so I’ll wish you all the luck in that endeavor.

Anyway, welcome to the site man.

 

[theseekerParticipant 32]

Edog wrote:

Welcome to the manospehere bro.

Thanks!

I still want kids. This is healthy and natural…

[quote]This is subjective. Yes, I’ll agree this is what’s considered ‘normal’ behavior since it’s the standard that society tends to conform to. But is it healthy? This can certainly be discussed in more than one light, and many here could show that it’s really not that healthy, for the parents or the kids. It’s subjective. Depends on a long list of criteria as to whether or not this is healthy. Natural? Again, this as well can be argued from many perspectives. bilogically, yes, this would be considered natural. However, many of us here would suggest it’s ‘natural’ for men to go their own way after observing what society considers to be ‘healthy and normal’.

It’s not only the standard of society, it’s the standard of life. We are programmed to procreate. Deep down most of us long to, or else we would have ceased to exist long ago or at least our population would be much lower. I’ll give you this though… having kids may easily be very unhealthy (in a different sense than I was speaking but still true) given a pretty f~~~ing flawed systems in place in the current civilization. Most of the powerful institutions are corrupt or f~~~ed (religion, politics, money, business, relations between sexes, relations between family, distribution of power, scarcity of resources, state of the planet etc.)

theseeker wrote:
for me… I realize that having kids requires a female, and the best case scenario is one that I can live with, and that these women are extremely rare especially among Western or American women.

Good luck. You’ll need it.

theseeker wrote:
against me… I will never adopt the belief that ALL women are the enemy. I can agree that many women are enemies and may end up believing that most women are, but not all. How will that belief that all women are bad help me?

You believe in unicorns. I think we all do to some extent. As you said, it’s not likely that “all” females are wretched and horrible creatures. There ‘has’ to be at least a few good ones, right? But this is needle in a haystack time. How many women can you meet in a year? How many can you assess in that time frame? 10? 20? 100? How many do you truly think will be any different than the next? How many times have you watched Monster Hunter? Isn’t it funny how the entire episode is dedicated to finding a specific creature, yet when the video ends, there is still absolutely zero actual evidence of it existing. Curious huh? It’s propaganda. If you can bring us evidence of a unicorn existing, I’m quite sure we would all marvel at the spectacle. I’ve never seen one myself.

Nah not unicorns or someone perfect. How can someone be perfect in this f~~~ed up society? I am not. I am looking for someone who I can live with. Still not all too common in Western civ, but not all is lost. But then again, it is needle in a haystack time. Maybe I will just be a serial dater the rest of my life and have fun NSA.

theseeker wrote:
for me… I don’t believe in unconditional love. I never received it except from my mom occassionally, and i sure aint giving it. I have standards. A woman found wanting will not do. I will not enter into any legal contracts with potential lovers… No marriage, no shared accounts, no shared leases or rents (on the contract.) We will share paying for things and that can be income based.

Sounds like a lot of work just for a vagina, especially the part where you tell the female she’s not getting a wedding and a marriage, she still has to produce a child/children, and has to pay her own way for a long list of things. I just don’t see this playing out. Females are not going to accept equal terms. It’s not about equality for them. It’s about superiority.

It is a lot of work, and only worth it if I really want kids, and I do. It’s not just about the vagina because easier ones are everywhere.

Hence I realize that it is more likely I will be a serial dater. The one chance is somehow I magically become rich and since I wont marry her she has to stay to enjoy my lifestyle. The way around this is kids for her, but if I just make sure that we are comfortable and hide my extra assets, the woman can be gamed into staying, or either of us could still end it, and I would be on the hook for the kids, but that’s what I want.

theseeker wrote:
Against me… The system

In a big way.

theseeker wrote:
for me… Realization that the system is against me, and a growingly keen awareness about how to combat this.

Going your own way is the only way to combat the system. The only way to win, is to not play the game. But you seem intent on playing the game, so I’ll wish you all the luck in that endeavor. Anyway, welcome to the site man.

I somehow believe it is possible to go your own way and still have kids. I realize I have to slink to women’s level in some ways (hide assets, withhold not intending marriage etc.) but I guess you play the system a bit if you want kids and someone reasonable to help raise them.

[theseekerParticipant 32]

Edog wrote:

Welcome to the manospehere bro.<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

Thanks!

<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”><span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>[quote]</span>I still want kids. This is healthy and natural…<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>This is subjective. Yes, I’ll agree this is what’s considered ‘normal’ behavior since it’s the standard that society tends to conform to. But is it healthy? This can certainly be discussed in more than one light, and many here could show that it’s really not that healthy, for the parents or the kids. It’s subjective. Depends on a long list of criteria as to whether or not this is healthy. Natural? Again, this as well can be argued from many perspectives. bilogically, yes, this would be considered natural. However, many of us here would suggest it’s ‘natural’ for men to go their own way after observing what society considers to be ‘healthy and normal’.<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

It’s not only the standard of society, it’s the standard of life. We are programmed to procreate. Deep down most of us long to, or else we would have ceased to exist long ago or at least our population would be much lower. I’ll give you this though… having kids may easily be very unhealthy (in a different sense than I was speaking but still true) given a pretty f~~~ing flawed systems in place in the current civilization. Most of the powerful institutions are corrupt or f~~~ed (religion, politics, money, business, relations between sexes, relations between family, distribution of power, scarcity of resources, state of the planet etc.)

<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>[quote]theseeker wrote:
for me… I realize that having kids requires a female, and the best case scenario is one that I can live with, and that these women are extremely rare especially among Western or American women.<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

Good luck. You’ll need it.

theseeker wrote:
against me… I will never adopt the belief that ALL women are the enemy. I can agree that many women are enemies and may end up believing that most women are, but not all. How will that belief that all women are bad help me?<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

You believe in unicorns. I think we all do to some extent. As you said, it’s not likely that “all” females are wretched and horrible creatures. There ‘has’ to be at least a few good ones, right? But this is needle in a haystack time. How many women can you meet in a year? How many can you assess in that time frame? 10? 20? 100? How many do you truly think will be any different than the next? How many times have you watched Monster Hunter? Isn’t it funny how the entire episode is dedicated to finding a specific creature, yet when the video ends, there is still absolutely zero actual evidence of it existing. Curious huh? It’s propaganda. If you can bring us evidence of a unicorn existing, I’m quite sure we would all marvel at the spectacle. I’ve never seen one myself.[/quote]

Nah not unicorns or someone perfect. How can someone be perfect in this f~~~ed up society? I am not. I am looking for someone who I can live with. Still not all too common in Western civ, but not all is lost. But then again, it is needle in a haystack time. Maybe I will just be a serial dater the rest of my life and have fun NSA.

[quote] theseeker wrote:
for me… I don’t believe in unconditional love. I never received it except from my mom occassionally, and i sure aint giving it. I have standards. A woman found wanting will not do. I will not enter into any legal contracts with potential lovers… No marriage, no shared accounts, no shared leases or rents (on the contract.) We will share paying for things and that can be income based.

Sounds like a lot of work just for a vagina, especially the part where you tell the female she’s not getting a wedding and a marriage, she still has to produce a child/children, and has to pay her own way for a long list of things. I just don’t see this playing out. Females are not going to accept equal terms. It’s not about equality for them. It’s about superiority.<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>[/quote]</span>

It is a lot of work, and only worth it if I really want kids, and I do.

Hence I realize that it is more likely I will be a serial dater. The one chance is somehow I magically become rich and since I wont marry her she has to stay to enjoy my lifestyle. The way around this is kids for her, but if I just make sure that we are comfortable and hide my extra assets, the woman can be gamed.

[quote]theseeker wrote:
Against me… The system<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

In a big way.

theseeker wrote:

for me… Realization that the system is against me, and a growingly keen awareness about how to combat this.<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>

</span>

Going your own way is the only way to combat the system. The only way to win, is to not play the game. But you seem intent on playing the game, so I’ll wish you all the luck in that endeavor. Anyway, welcome to the site man. [/quote]

I somehow believe it is possible to go your own way and still have kids. I realize I have to slink to women’s level in some ways (hide assets, withhold not intending marriage etc.) but I guess you play the system a bit if you want kids and someone reasonable to help raise them.

[Author]

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