Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › In Defence of Liberal Arts Degrees
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Beer 3 years, 6 months ago.
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Liberal artsAyy lmao.
Indeed, a Harvard liberal arts major applying for an engineer job is pretty ridiculous. But a Harvard liberal arts major applying to be the department head of a STEM division at a Fortune 200 company? That’s a lot more likely to happen.
No way lol…I work for one of those companies. The only departments where management doesn’t have a STEM degree or a related military background, and a boat load of experience in the field is human resources, which for the most part is a useless joke department anyhow. They’d never take some liberal arts grad and put him in charge of engineering, ops, electrical, maintenance, etc…putting someone in charge who doesn’t know what they are doing is a sure fire way for the organization to make some awful decisions.
The money is mostly in finance, some for CPAs, and there are a few other routes. I don’t know why people go to STEM to make money. All my banker and CPA friends make way more money.
I think if you looked at average salaries for some different fields rather than use a few of your friends as your source of data, you’d probably understand why people go into STEM fields to make money.
A liberal arts degree out of Harvard or Yale is worth more than any STEM degree from a state school.
No it isn’t. More accurately, only a small number of liberal arts degrees from Harvard are worth more on the job marketplace than a STEM degree from a state university and the there are two reasons for that.
First, not all liberal art degrees are the same. You and a few others are repeatedly failing to distinguish between “Old School” liberal art degrees and “SJW” liberal art degrees.
The Old School degrees like history, literature, ethics, and logic are the ones Dr. Johnson wrote about in his article. Those degree lead to any number of jobs or fields of graduate studies. SJW degrees are the red headed, left handed, Eskimo, lesbian intersectional fat studies degrees for which there are no jobs except for teaching red headed, left handed, Eskimo, lesbian intersectional fat studies.
Old school liberal arts degrees mean you’re educated. SJW liberal arts degrees means you’re indoctrinated.
Pedigree matters.
That’s the second way an Ivy League liberal arts degree can pay more than a state uni STEM degree. Despite their constant bleating about diversity and inclusiveness, the Ivies enroll huge numbers of legacies each year. Thurston Howell III’s grandkids get degrees at Yale because “Grampy” will make a big endowment and the same grandkids have upper tier waiting for them within the “old boys’ network regardless of what they actually study.
Navy and Marines are very close and work together a lot.
I take it you never served in either the Navy or Marines.
Indeed, a Harvard liberal arts major applying for an engineer job is pretty ridiculous. But a Harvard liberal arts major applying to be the department head of a STEM division at a Fortune 200 company? That’s a lot more likely to happen.
No it isn’t. I deal with those people daily in my line of work. First, they all have graduate a degree, or more likely degrees, in STEM and/or management. Second, in the rare case their undergrad degree was a liberal arts degree, it was an old school degree.
The money is mostly in finance, some for CPAs, and there are a few other routes. I don’t know why people go to STEM to make money. All my banker and CPA friends make way more money.
Why doesn’t finance doesn’t fall under the “mathematics” portion of STEM? Economics does.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
I have seen liberal arts majors go on to pursue law degrees and mba degrees.
As I’ve previously explained, those going on to graduate work most likely have “old school” liberal arts degrees like history, literature, and so forth.
I also know many guys with liberal arts degrees who are flipping burgers.
And those people usually have SJW liberal arts degrees like red headed, left handed, Eskimo, lesbian intersectional fat studies.
It’s all good. Find something that interests you and go for it.
If you want to study it, study it.
However, if you can’t find a job which uses your red headed, left handed, Eskimo, lesbian intersectional fat studies degree, don’t expect me to feed, clothe, and house you while also forgiving your student loans.
You’re an adult. Pay your own way.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
Anonymous3I guess someone needs to define what exactly liberal arts is, because people are throwing around all sorts of definitions. Now suddenly it’s “only” random SJW majors? But before people were knocking history, philosophy, and essentially everything that wasn’t STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics is what those 4 letters stand for—everything not under those categories is supposed to be classified as liberal arts).
Are economics, finance, accounting and actuarial sciences part of Math? I don’t know, the only one I was under the impression might have fallen under Math is Actuarial.
For the record, I was a Naval officer. Anyone who doesn’t know the connection between the Navy and Marines is most likely a poser and never served. Actually, anyone who thinks all the branches just work separately and don’t actually work together in the field is also a poser. And I’m not afraid to state those things.
I got mine, I wonder how many other people did. To me none of this matters. I know what works and what doesn’t, I know the value of a great degree and connections. At the end of the day, everyone has their own life and if they bulls~~~ on the internet they still have to go back to living their reality.
I don’t mind anything outside of the “I’m guessing you never served” which does tick me off. Especially considering the argument I had with that other guy knocking vets in another thread not too long ago. Since I’m irritated, I’ll stop at that and move on.
I guess someone needs to define what exactly liberal arts is, because people are throwing around all sorts of definitions.
I did so in my first post in this thread: We do not need, however, the numbers and types of liberal arts majors currently being pumped out of universities like s~~~ out of a goose. Note the use of the phrase “numbers and types” rather than “all”.
Now suddenly it’s “only” random SJW majors? But before people were knocking history, philosophy, and essentially everything that wasn’t STEM…
I most definitely wasn’t: Except in rare circumstances and in a tiny handful of majors, a liberal arts education is no longer a good education. Again, note the use of the phrase “tiny handful” rather than “all”.
It’s pretty clear that we’ve been differentiating between old school and SJW degree from the first.
Are economics, finance, accounting and actuarial sciences part of Math? I don’t know, the only one I was under the impression might have fallen under Math is Actuarial.
They’re all math intensive, so why wouldn’t they be STEM?
For the record, I was a Naval officer.
Good for you. I was a nuclear propulsion specialist and after that a forward observer for first howitzers and then MLRS systems.
Anyone who doesn’t know the connection between the Navy and Marines…
I know there’s a connection and that the Corps is part of DoN. I also know that when it comes to procurement and other issues, the Navy treats the Marines like a red-headed stepchild.
Summing up:
– Not all liberal arts degrees are alike
– The number of worthless liberal arts degrees has exploded in the last three decades.
– Colleges and universities are graduating an increasing number of people with those worthless degrees
– While the proper connections can trump make up for a worthless degree, only a tiny fraction of those graduating with a worthless degree will have such connectionsDo not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
To be honest the traditional art degrees and diplomas also suffer from a terminal case of undergraduates making dumb decisions. I’d say the majority. When I go to the college graduation gallery my jaw has hit the floor at some of the nonsense they call “art”. I’m talking students putting their crusty brown stained underpants on the wall, showing silent videos of them doing everyday tasks like eating cereal and ironing, another showing her t~~~ in a picture, floating balloons, not even manipulated into a clever way. Just inflated. Most of them were making feminist statements about women’s bodies. And you think where the hell are they going with that? Learn your craft woman!
But then you come across a few skilled graphic designs, prints and paintings where you think okay, these people are level headed. They probably have a future.
But I tell you, it’s the minority. Most students are effectively turning the traditional arts degrees into liberal arts degrees because of their lazy sjw “message”.
I can imagine the same goes for women’s studies even. I would say that in every thirty women’s studies classes there’s one person who takes it maturely, who actually reads around the subject, who actually has a plan in mind and who is actually hard working. That person will probably work in the government or something.
The rest are just tossers like trigglypuff. KEEP YOUR HATE SPEECH OFF OUR CAMPUS KEEP YOUR HATE SPEECH OFF OUR CAMPUS!!!
I bet most of them think they can just work in the domestic violence industry.
The question though: Should a man do gender/women’s studies? I would argue that a man can’t actually pass the course without lying to himself ALOT. A deluded mangina can pass it though.
So my view is liberal arts can be worth it if IF you’re that rare one with a plan, who isn’t an sjw, who’s mature, level headed, isn’t brainwashed, and takes as much out of it as possible.
Otherwise don’t bother.
In my experience as an undergrad, albeit, over two decades ago, the ‘liberal arts’ courses were easier than the STEM courses required to complete my degree. Much of this, in my opinion, was due to the students taking such classes; IN GENERAL, they were less academically serious. As a result of this, the curve made it easier to earn good grades. The WAY these classes were taught, relied more upon memorization, than critical thinking and analysis. That isn’t to knock the subjects, but gets to the heart of what Old Bill was talking about.
But, the curriculum MUST be dumbed down, as more people are attending college. So this is hardly unexpected.
If you crack open a textbook of your parents, you will see this same dumbing down — the material at any grade level will be harder.
Also, when I would take more advanced Humanities courses (e.g. philosophy/symbolic logic/deductive reasoning), I also noted, the ‘quality’ of the students was above that of the entry level courses.
It is true Engineering students spend more TIME per week studying, on average than most other majors: http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/nsse-survey/?_r=0 — but not as much more, as you might have thought — 19 hours for them vs 14 hours for business and social science.
I’m an engineer, I should note that since it may bias my opinions.
The Universities have also cowed to political pressure, establishing and funding entire Departments of indoctrination: Black Studies, Women’s Studies, Men’s Studies, LGBT Studies, etc. Many of these areas may merit academic study, but creating insular Departments for that purpose, just divides people and feeds identity politics and Groupthink.
I would also argue experience counts for a lot — undergrads right after college typically have very little practical experience, because Universities don’t want to get their hands dirty teaching practical skills.
I rarely used any of the advanced mathematics I studied in school. But I definitely use critical thinking in my STEM field.
When I go to the college graduation gallery my jaw has hit the floor at some of the nonsense they call “art”. I’m talking students putting their crusty brown stained underpants on the wall, showing silent videos of them doing everyday tasks like eating cereal and ironing, another showing her t~~~ in a picture, floating balloons, not even mani
Its called post modernist absurdist “art”.
You’re just a pleb…where do you get off thinking art is supposed to be about beauty, or skill…
/sarc
Thurston Howell III’s grandkids get degrees at Yale because “Grampy” will make a big endowment and the same grandkids have upper tier waiting for them within the “old boys’ network regardless of what they actually study.
This is the truth of the issue regardless of what school they may or may not have gone to. For example…the last company I worked for was a relatively small company…about 40 employees. When the current president and vp retire…guess who has their jobs? Their kids. Their kids all had their choice of colleges because their dad’s are multi millionaires, but they truth is they could have been D students at a fancy college or the local community college and they’d still have had a six figure job and the reins to a multi million dollar company awaiting them.
I guess someone needs to define what exactly liberal arts is, because people are throwing around all sorts of definitions. Now suddenly it’s “only” random SJW majors? But before people were knocking history, philosophy, and essentially everything that wasn’t STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics is what those 4 letters stand for—everything not under those categories is supposed to be classified as liberal arts).
Does it really matter? Like I said before…its about averages, and your average liberal arts degree isn’t going to get you the salary of your average STEM degree. If you take people with a bachelors in early childhood education, social work, nursing, graphics design, psychology, or engineering…which 2 do you think will have the higher salaries? I’m sure everyone on this forum would say the nurse and the engineer. That doesn’t mean you won’t find a graphics design major who started up a printing company and is making a killing working in his field, or a social worker who worked their way into a sweet state job and is doing well for themselves…it just means your average graphics designer or social worker is going to be making 30-40k a year while your average engineer or nurse probably more in the ballpark of 60-80k a year. You take 100 people with a bachelors in a STEM field and 100 with a liberal arts bachelors degree and the average income of the STEM grads is going to be higher.
At the point you say well my friend with a bachelors in history went on to get a law degree and made a ton of money…he’s making money with the law degree…not the history degree. I had a buddy who got a history degree and thought oh s~~~, I can’t do anything with this, so he got his masters in teaching. He does well for himself now as a teacher…but its because of the teaching degree…his undergrad could have been in anything from anywhere and it wouldn’t have made any difference to his career.
Trade skills schools are full of people who shouldn’t be there, only in for the money. Meanwhile we get f~~~ing reboots of classic movies because they cant come up with original ideas anymore, singers who cant sing without auto-tunes. I dont blame the kids, they are doing what they are told, go learn a usefull degree..
I would hire a plumber that loves his job, not one who only took that career because of the pay rate. We need diversity.
This is the truth of the issue regardless of what school they may or may not have gone to. For example…the last company I worked for was a relatively small company…about 40 employees. When the current president and vp retire…guess who has their jobs? Their kids. Their kids all had their choice of colleges because their dad’s are multi millionaires, but they truth is they could have been D students at a fancy college or the local community college and they’d still have had a six figure job and the reins to a multi million dollar company awaiting them.
That is very true, Beer. Family is going to give the job to family.
I used Thurston Howell III and Yale in my example because of Phoenix’ ludicrous assertion that Ivy League liberal arts undergrads are routinely hired to lead IT divisions in Fortune 500 companies.
Coming out of Yale with a BA in Hottentot lesbian pubic hair knitting isn’t going to get you a job anywhere, Ivy degree or not, unless Daddy, Grampy, or their golfing buddies give you one.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
Anonymous3This is the truth of the issue regardless of what school they may or may not have gone to. For example…the last company I worked for was a relatively small company…about 40 employees. When the current president and vp retire…guess who has their jobs? Their kids. Their kids all had their choice of colleges because their dad’s are multi millionaires, but they truth is they could have been D students at a fancy college or the local community college and they’d still have had a six figure job and the reins to a multi million dollar company awaiting them.
That is very true, Beer. Family is going to give the job to family.
I used Thurston Howell III and Yale in my example because of Phoenix’ ludicrous assertion that Ivy League liberal arts undergrads are routinely hired to lead IT divisions in Fortune 500 companies.
Coming out of Yale with a BA in Hottentot lesbian pubic hair knitting isn’t going to get you a job anywhere, Ivy degree or not, unless Daddy, Grampy, or their golfing buddies give you one.
Well I was under the impression that majors like Finance, Accounting and the like were considered liberal arts. And that MBAs were also considered liberal arts. That has been my understanding of the definition of it.
There is no such thing as underwater basket weaving, so what are these so-called SJW degrees? To me that looks like a jest.
Although Steve Jobs didn’t have a degree, if he was going to get one, it would have been in Calligraphy, which I’m sure you’d be busy knocking. That Jobs fellow did okay for himself though, even had some connection to IT I think.
Anonymous3Does it really matter? Like I said before…its about averages, and your average liberal arts degree isn’t going to get you the salary of your average STEM degree. If you take people with a bachelors in early childhood education, social work, nursing, graphics design, psychology, or engineering…which 2 do you think will have the higher salaries? I’m sure everyone on this forum would say the nurse and the engineer. That doesn’t mean you won’t find a graphics design major who started up a printing company and is making a killing working in his field, or a social worker who worked their way into a sweet state job and is doing well for themselves…it just means your average graphics designer or social worker is going to be making 30-40k a year while your average engineer or nurse probably more in the ballpark of 60-80k a year. You take 100 people with a bachelors in a STEM field and 100 with a liberal arts bachelors degree and the average income of the STEM grads is going to be higher.
It does matter. I mentioned specific majors that I said were the best to get, especially out of Harvard and Yale. If they’re STEM then it changes the argument. I noticed you avoided the majors I listed.
A Harvard or Yale finance, accounting or business degree is going to make more money than an engineering degree out of state university. Do you disagree with that? I don’t know what STEM means anymore, so I’m just going to avoid that word for now until we can address that point. I specifically mentioned bankers, accountants and lawyers in my earlier posts.
You and OldBill are purposely ignoring things to make strawman arguments, or you’re missing what I wrote. Perhaps I also could have written it more clearly. But there is definitely something getting lost in here, so let me focus it on those things. We can figure out what is STEM or not after we come to an understanding on those majors and those professions.
Complete nonsense. I come from a STEM background and to say liberal arts degrees prepares people for critical thinking is erroneous. NASA only hires people with STEM backgrounds and they’ve landed vessels on the Moon, Mars, and deep within our solar system. This involves having individual with mechanical engineering backgrounds, electrical engineering backgrounds, software engineering backgrounds, and aerospace engineering backgrounds. Somehow all these thunder dorks have to come together and make something work whether it’s a rocket, satellite, or any other orbiting vessel. You don’t think critical thinking is taking place with those experts? Or how about those that are finding a cure or a counter for the zika virus. One wildlife biologist genetically engineered males that give offspring that will not have needles thus drastically reducing the mosquito population. But someone with a sociology/gender studies/philosophy degree whether it’s a BA, MS, or higher performs more critical thinking? Nonsense to me.
If it costs you your peace of mind, then it is too expensive.
Anonymous3Complete nonsense. I come from a STEM background and to say liberal arts degrees prepares people for critical thinking is erroneous. NASA only hires people with STEM backgrounds and they’ve landed vessels on the Moon, Mars, and deep within our solar system. This involves having individual with mechanical engineering backgrounds, electrical engineering backgrounds, software engineering backgrounds, and aerospace engineering backgrounds. Somehow all these thunder dorks have to come together and make something work whether it’s a rocket, satellite, or any other orbiting vessel. You don’t think critical thinking is taking place with those experts? Or how about those that are finding a cure or a counter for the zika virus. One wildlife biologist genetically engineered males that give offspring that will not have needles thus drastically reducing the mosquito population. But someone with a sociology/gender studies/philosophy degree whether it’s a BA, MS, or higher performs more critical thinking? Nonsense to me.
I have a STEM degree myself, and I didn’t learn how to “think” until I studied philosophy on my own afterwards.
To play devil’s advocate though, NASA doesn’t have a stellar history for following common sense. With the challenger disaster they flat out ignored the recommendations of the engineers at Morton Thiokol because of their precious “launch schedule”. They ignored photo evidence that they just barely escaped disaster the last time they launched in cold weather, where the O-ring sealant of the rocket boosters failed to expland, almost releasing molten blast debris.
With colombia they kept launching despite known risk of foam strikes, when the foam did strike at some 1400 mph, they were like it’s just foam! What can foam do! They had to resort to actual physical experimentation because the people there were too dumb to understand the physics.
They decided to do nothing about it because “there’s nothing we can do anyway”.
How about launch a rescue mission? Too expensive? OK how about angle re entry away from the gaping hole in the left wing. Nah.
The report by Admiral Hal Gaiman found their management and culture at Nasa was “lost”, with no direction, no sense of budget, or safety. They used faulty logic “If it didn’t hurt me before, it won’t hurt me now”. The investigation concluded they had neither learned the lessons of Challenger, and they had essentially been getting by on dumb luck before and since. There could have been many more tragedies were they less fortunate.
There was no real critical thinking at NASA. They were just good at following procedure. Only recently, post columbia did they even start to take the safety recommendations of their own engineers seriously.
That sentence doesn’t make sense.
It does if you have a basic grasp of English grammar. But here, I’ll break it down for you:
Only fools go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for a degree in the gender dynamics of bronze age underwater basket weaving. Only idiots do so knowing it qualifies them for nothing more than barrista work at starbucks. Only assholes think they should get equal compensation as STEM graduates regardless.
Who is thinking this and what are they thinking?
Pretty much everyone at those occupy rallies for one. All the people screaming and bawling for “college debt relief” for another, and they are selling their votes cheap to the democrats to get it.
Men who want to study liberal arts subjects or social science, whether gender studies or whatever, should do so, if that is what they want.
And nobody here is saying they shouldn’t. All I’m saying is that, having done so, they should not expect the same respect or compensation as people who earned employable degrees.
I, myself, have a couple of liberal arts degrees.
But I got my MSc and doctorate first.
I guess someone needs to define what exactly liberal arts is, because people are throwing around all sorts of definitions.
If the degree has an ‘Sc’ in it, it’s a science. If it has an ‘A’ at the end, it’s an art.
If you still can’t tell the difference, here’s a general rule of thumb, if the majority of the students are female, it’s a liberal art (and more probably a useless liberal art). But if the majority of students are male (especially in the current college demographics) it’s probably a science (or st the very least a useful liberal art).
But before people were knocking history, philosophy, and essentially everything that wasn’t STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics is what those 4 letters stand for—everything not under those categories is supposed to be classified as liberal arts).
We’re not knocking those fields. We’re only knocking the people who go into those fields expecting to earn a high six figure salary when they graduate. And who then whine and complain when they can only get jobs flipping burgers.
And yes, there are actually useful liberal arts degrees, like studying law, for example. But there are a hell of a lot more useless liberal arts degrees, and those tend to be the ones that attract the whiners.
Are economics, finance, accounting and actuarial sciences part of Math? I don’t know, the only one I was under the impression might have fallen under Math is Actuarial.
Business degrees are a different animal entirely. They’re really in a class of their own, but if forced to decide, I would say they’re definitely part of the sciences. You can get a Masters of Science in Business Administration (MScBA), but I have never seen any Masters of Arts of Business Administration (hypothetically a MABA). If have Heard of Masters of Arts of Human Resources, but then HR is a bulls~~~ field in general.
Although Steve Jobs didn’t have a degree, if he was going to get one, it would have been in Calligraphy, which I’m sure you’d be busy knocking. That Jobs fellow did okay for himself though, even had some connection to IT I think.
I’m failing to understand how a calligraphy degree someone might have thought about getting but never got and ended up making a fortune in a (S)Technology(EM) field is at all relevant to this discussion lol. What are you saying…Steve Jobs made more money working with technology then he would have if he pursued a career as a calligrapher?
Well I was under the impression that majors like Finance, Accounting and the like were considered liberal arts. And that MBAs were also considered liberal arts. That has been my understanding of the definition of it.
I’d consider finance or accounting STEM, because ya know, math, but I guess other people might define it differently. If you want to start talking about degrees higher up than a bachelors you’ve kind of left the realm of anything I was referring to. I have a bachelors in psychology for example. What kind of job could I get with a bachelors in psychology? Overwhelming chances are nothing good…and in fact when I was looking I couldn’t manage to get anything that paid more than the labor job I had. If I went to school for a few more years I could get a job as a psychologist or psychiatrist and make some pretty good money though.
And again…its about averages…most people with a bachelors in psych aren’t going to go on to be a doctor…if they get a job in their field they’ll probably end up working in a group home with drug addicts or mentally handicapped not making very much money.
I think Oldbill is poking a bit of fun at the subject…but when I was in college some of the common degrees in my school people were getting that would not lead to high salaries unless they intended to go on for a higher degree…general studies, history, psychology, early childhood education, sociology, communications, English, poli sci, women and gender studies, and visual arts. Again…like I already said…a lot of higher degrees your under grad is rather irrelevant…like if you get an MBA potential employers are going to care that you have an MBA…they aren’t going to care if your under grad was in sociology or communications, or like my buddy who got the history degree and went on to be a teacher…he’s a middle school teacher that teaches all subjects..if his under grad was chemistry he’d have ended up with the same position.
A Harvard or Yale finance, accounting or business degree is going to make more money than an engineering degree out of state university. Do you disagree with that?
I think Oldbill and I have both already touched this topic…its because of the contacts that person probably had before they even attended school. I guess you missed the humor in his Thurstan Howell joke. If you take Joe Blow who is just and average middle class person from my town and send him off to Yale for an accounting degree, I don’t think he’ll necessarily make any more money than John Blow from my town who is just an average middle class person who went to state school and got the same accounting degree. At the end of the day they both have to pass the same CPA exam and they are both equally qualified.
Likewise, if you take some guy who’s dad is a multi millionaire business man with lots of connections…its not going to matter if he goes to Yale or state school when he lands a job at a company his dad does millions of dollars of business with….he got the job because of connections, not because people were drooling over his Yale degree. In my experience, I know plenty of people that have gone to fancier, expensive colleges than I did, and all it amounted to for them was more student debt. In the end I think its more just a function that children of affluent families with lots of connections are more likely to go to expensive colleges, not that an expensive college on its own guarantees a higher income.
If you want to compare apples to apples, then yes, I disagree with that statement. If you want to compare apples to oranges, then yes, I agree with that statement.
Here’s a good one for ya I’m sure you’ll like…
Average salary of a Yale graduate…starting salary 61.4k, mid career 120k.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Yale_University/SalaryAverage salary of a SUNY maritime grade…starting salary 65.4k, mid career 139k.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=SUNY_-_Maritime_College/SalaryKinda strange how that state school has a higher average salary for its graduates and cost 1/3 as much, isn’t it? Not everyone who graduates from Yale is jumping into fancy six figure jobs just because they are Yale grads.
You and OldBill are purposely ignoring things to make strawman arguments, or you’re missing what I wrote. Perhaps I also could have written it more clearly
I’m not missing what you wrote, I’m disagreeing with you. Look man…you tried to use a few accountants and finance people you know as some kind of support for an argument. Using a handful of people as an average really isn’t a meaningful statistical analysis, and I pointed out I’m talking about averages over a large population, so you start talking about Steve Jobs lol. Here’s what I’m talking about…
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Certified_Public_Accountant_(CPA)/Salary
average salary of a CPA…60k
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Nuclear_Engineer/Salary
average salary of a nuclear engineer(I just picked this because its what mine is, some other fields make a bit less while others make a bit more)….80k
It doesn’t mean every nuclear engineer makes more than every CPA…I know a CPA in town who built up his own business who is crushing that 60k a year figure who probably makes more than all of the engineers at my job, but I’ve also met contractors through my work who have lots of years in the industry and travel around doing contract work making 100+ an hour. I met a contractor last summer who was hired in as a trainer due to his engineering background who was making 200 dollars an hour, 40 hours a week, for a 6 month contract That dude cleared 200k in 6 months of working. I know people with engineering backgrounds who have gone to work abroad who are making 250k+ a year…its amazing what some other countries will pay to get the right people in to complete a project. It doesn’t mean I’m going to point at these people and say look what engineers make when I full well know most engineers will never make that kind of money.
Anonymous3That sentence doesn’t make sense.
It does if you have a basic grasp of English grammar. But here, I’ll break it down for you:
No, the sentence as you typed it originally made no grammatical sense.
Only fools go hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for a degree in the gender dynamics of bronze age underwater basket weaving. Only idiots do so knowing it qualifies them for nothing more than barrista work at starbucks. Only assholes think they should get equal compensation as STEM graduates regardless.
Yes, and where have I or anybody else here said that? Nobody here has argued this. And nobody in the real world argues for this either.
My problem with you is that you’re not putting a real argument. You’re just inventing an extreme position and then using that as the basis of your attack.
Also, I’m not trying to give people advice here. I’m just saying that there’s nothing wrong with pursuing the subject or interest that you want to pursue. The whole STEM v Arts debate is too simplistic in my view.
If the degree has an ‘Sc’ in it, it’s a science. If it has an ‘A’ at the end, it’s an art.
Yes, I know this. Please don’t assume that just because I have a slightly different opinion to yours, that must mean I’m stupid or ignorant or less knowledgeable than you are. That’s the way c~~~s argue – and it’s annoying.
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