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Beer 3 years, 6 months ago.
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Anonymous3There are occasional discussions on here about the merits of STEM degrees. I won’t argue that a STEM education is a good thing, but I think there is a need for balance.
I like this article by Dr. Greg Johnson, in which he defends a liberal arts education (what we in Britain simply call ‘arts subjects’). As I don’t have a liberal arts degree myself, it was also interesting to read about Dr. Johnson’s thoughts and experiences.
I think there is a need for ‘masculine’ men (including MGTOWs) to go into the liberal arts and succeed in the academy. I also don’t accept that liberal arts degrees are easier than STEM. I know there has been considerable dumbing-down, but a degree is preparation for entering academia and how ‘easy’ or ‘hard’ a degree is depends on how hard you want to work. In my view, we should value education for its own sake, but as Dr. Johnson says, a good education is also preparation for life.
Agreed but then one should also research the job market for that particular field and see what the future prospects hold for it if one is really interested.
There is nothing worse than graduating with a degree then having to pay off student loans working at some
‘McJob’.Lifes a bitch,but you don't have to marry one!
There are occasional discussions on here about the merits of STEM degrees. I won’t argue that a STEM education is a good thing, but I think there is a need for balance.
There should be a balance. We need liberal arts majors.
We do not need, however, the numbers and types of liberal arts majors currently being pumped out of universities like s~~~ out of a goose.
I like this article by Dr. Greg Johnson, in which he defends a liberal arts education (what we in Britain simply call ‘arts subjects’).
Dr. Johnson makes some good points and obviously a thoughtful man. His liberal arts education prepared him to be a critical thinker.
Sadly, the type of liberal arts education he received is now rare to the point of extinction.
I also don’t accept that liberal arts degrees are easier than STEM.
Liberal arts degrees didn’t used to be easier than STEM. They were different than STEM, but not easier. That has changed and has changed drastically.
In my view, we should value education for its own sake, but as Dr. Johnson says, a good education is also preparation for life.
The operative phrase being, of course, a good education. Except in rare circumstances and in a tiny handful of majors, a liberal arts education is no longer a good education. Except in rare circumstance and in a tiny handful of majors, a liberal arts education is actually an indoctrination.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
Except in rare circumstance and in a tiny handful of majors, a liberal arts education is actually an indoctrination.
As someone with a liberal arts and a STEM degree…I agree.
Otherwise though, I don’t think its so much that liberal arts degrees = bad if you get into a program that is more than a liberal indoctrination program…its that you have a much easier time making a lot more money with a STEM degree, and most people go to college to increase their earning potential. I know a lot of people with 4 year engineering and nursing degrees who are all making north of 70k a year. I know a lot of people with liberal arts degrees and the only ones making decent money are the ones that got jobs as public school teachers, which requires a masters. The rest pretty much end up in jobs like social workers and working in group homes and stuff where they make 14 bucks an hour…hardly worth the price of tuition to pretty much end up making probably less than they would be if they just went full time at the local Home Depot or something right out of high school.
Anonymous7Do what ever you want man. My mindset is to self teach any liberal arts I am interested in. Just realize your pay and usefulness will be lower.
The professors will be more and more blue pill the farther you get from STEM.
Ive thought about minoring in philosophy but brainwashing is so ingrained into the subjective studies that I fear I will learn very little.
Otherwise though, I don’t think its so much that liberal arts degrees = bad if you get into a program that is more than a liberal indoctrination program…
Agreed, that’s why I tried not to write my post in absolutes.
It’s not a case of all liberal arts degrees = bad. It’s a case of most liberal arts degrees = bad. Just as it’s not a case of all liberal arts programs being indoctrination or all liberal arts degrees meaning you’ll be asking “Do you want fries with that?”
There are good liberal arts programs, good liberal arts degrees, and good jobs for those with those degrees. Sadly, those programs, degrees, and jobs are relatively few while the worthless programs and degrees have left us with a surfeit of people whose indoctrination leaves them unable to fill any job that doesn’t include the phrase “Do you want fries with that?”
Putting it another, it’s as if our society only needs to fill five buggy whip manufacturing jobs a year while our education system is producing 500,000 buggy whip makers.
We need liberal arts graduates. We do not need to types or numbers that currently graduate.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
I have a liberal arts degree and never fully escaped retail. I don’t want to say I regret my choice because I had some good teachers and memories from those years. Once, I had the ambition of going into secondary education but that did not pan out. If I could go back 20 years I would have done something different.
but I think there is a need for balance.
Balance doesn’t pay the bills.
If you really want “balance” then it should be within individual people, not between them. So go ahead and get your degree in gender dynamics of bronze age underwater basket weaving or whatever, but only AFTER you’ve learned something employable first.
But should someone who only studied fluffy liberal arts subjects be awarded the same respect, admiration, and monetary compensations as someone who busted his ass learning difficult, useful, and in demand things like medicine or chemical engineering just “because balance”?
Of course not.
Demanding equal rewards for unequal work is not equality. Nor is it just. Or ultimately sustainable.
It’s just childish.
Once upon a time having a college degree was a rare thing, and it really differentiated a person, opening doors to a rich upper class life.
Eventually all civilized nations decided this was unfair, and that everyone should have these opportunities. So through government funding and student loans, higher education was made available to everyone.
Now the labor market is flooded with educated workers, and there aren’t enough upper-class jobs for them (not even close). So, they have no choice but to go for the lower-class jobs, which can now require college degrees (due to the abundant supply) and still pay too little for students to ever dig themselves out of debt.
We are reaping what we have sewn.
It is wise to fear dangerous commitments.
Once upon a time having a college degree was a rare thing, and it really differentiated a person, opening doors to a rich upper class life.
Once upon a time a college degree was something you had to EARN. It wasn’t something you could just buy, and using other people’s money, no less.
Now the labor market is flooded with educated workers,
Diplomaed, yes. But educated? Not so much any more. There’s probably a smaller percentage of people being college educated any more, despite the massively larger number of graduates.
Liberal arts degrees are completely useless. I would never waste my money studying a degree that wouldn’t even get me an entry level job in the field I’ve chosen. The only degrees worth going for are STEM and medical. All others are a complete waste of time. Not only because they’re not employable, but because most of them are filled with politically correct SJW bulls~~~.
Unless you plan on going into med school, everything you learn in college can be learned for free online. So I’d never waste my money on something like a degree in philosophy.
Diplomaed, yes. But educated? Not so much any more.
That’s an important point. I believe the word being used to described uneducated diploma holders is “credentialed”. They attend college to become credentialed and not educated.
There’s probably a smaller percentage of people being college educated any more, despite the massively larger number of graduates.
Exactly. It’s “cargo cult” or “Potemkin village” education. They either go through the motions or just create a false front in order to claim they’ve been educated.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. Above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
Anonymous3A liberal arts degree out of Harvard or Yale is worth more than any STEM degree from a state school. Pedigree matters. Usually the elites at the top do not go for STEM, they’ve only more recently started, and only a few of them, because the rest of the economy has so much softness. It used to be the elites wouldn’t want to go into government either, but now they do that too, like in any third world country out there.
If you can’t get into an elite school, then the best you can hope for is probably STEM, if you insist on going to school. It’s no guarantee though even then. You still have to be smart about debt and networking.
Or if you actually have some drive and ability, start your own business. Military is a good option too, if you can get into the academies those are the best, but they’re highly selective. Otherwise you can do college and then OCS/OTS depending on the branch you’re looking at. If you’re unconnected, that will help you a lot. Those are also extremely competitive selections, especially anything above the Army level. No disrespect to Army, they just are the least selective. Coast Guard and Air Force if you don’t really want to travel and want something cushy, Navy if you want to travel, Marines if you’re really hardcore. Each branch also has their own culture. Navy and Marines are very close and work together a lot.
Trade school and apprenticeship programs are also good if you’re that type.
If you actually want to be smart and gain knowledge in this world, you will read philosophy and in general read everything you can outside of school. I am self taught in a few different areas. My undergrad is STEM, but I pretty much never used it. I still strive to learn today, I read as much as I can. I keep an e-book collection on my computer that has some 10,000 books, and I keep my own notes as well spanning many different subjects and through my life.
For me income is a means of survival, I don’t care how I get it, but I want to work the least possible and be the least reliant on somebody else for that income. The best thing to do is have several income streams, from investments, rentals etc. There are many ways to go about this, but everyone has to start somewhere, and you will have more energy while you’re younger to ride down the hard times.
There are occasional discussions on here about the merits of STEM degrees. I won’t argue that a STEM education is a good thing, but I think there is a need for balance.
I like this article by Dr. Greg Johnson, in which he defends a liberal arts education (what we in Britain simply call ‘arts subjects’). As I don’t have a liberal arts degree myself, it was also interesting to read about Dr. Johnson’s thoughts and experiences.
<iframe class=”wp-embedded-content” sandbox=”allow-scripts” security=”restricted” style=”position: absolute; clip: rect(1px, 1px, 1px, 1px);” src=”http://www.counter-currents.com/2016/07/a-philosophers-education/embed/#?secret=7U0LIGdOzl” data-secret=”7U0LIGdOzl” width=”500″ height=”282″ title=”“A Philosopher’s Education” — Counter-Currents Publishing” frameborder=”0″ marginwidth=”0″ marginheight=”0″ scrolling=”no”></iframe>
I think there is a need for ‘masculine’ men (including MGTOWs) to go into the liberal arts and succeed in the academy. I also don’t accept that liberal arts degrees are easier than STEM. I know there has been considerable dumbing-down, but a degree is preparation for entering academia and how ‘easy’ or ‘hard’ a degree is depends on how hard you want to work. In my view, we should value education for its own sake, but as Dr. Johnson says, a good education is also preparation for life.
Quick contemplation before I go, the problem with liberal arts degrees is there needs to be no more government money behind it. It needs to be men perusing knowledge and simply make it readily available for those thirsty for knowledge. Liberal art degrees are f~~~ed because people with agenda’s are supported with f~~~ing money to push their agenda. That needs to end. STEM fields at least scare away screwb~~~~ that don’t know what the f~~~ they are talking about. Like I said, just a quick observation. This isn’t a solution as I don’t have time to think up something less non-sensical.
Anonymous3but I think there is a need for balance.
Balance doesn’t pay the bills.
If you really want “balance” then it should be within individual people, not between them. So go ahead and get your degree in gender dynamics of bronze age underwater basket weaving or whatever, but only AFTER you’ve learned something employable first.
But should someone who only studied fluffy liberal arts subjects be awarded the same respect, admiration, and monetary compensations as someone who busted his ass learning difficult, useful, and in demand things like medicine or chemical engineering just “because balance”?
Of course not.
Demanding equal rewards for unequal work is not equality. Nor is it just. Or ultimately sustainable.
It’s just childish.
But unlike you, I’m not telling people what to do or giving advice.
I’m just saying that it is wrong to make the assumption that liberal arts degrees are always worthless.
Whether an education is worthwhile or not depends on you.
A liberal arts degree out of Harvard or Yale is worth more than any STEM degree from a state school.
Not as far as I’m concerned. I employ a few engineers out of ivy league schools, and more out of state schools, but not a single Harvard Feminist Studies graduate. But don’t think they haven’t applied. I seriously don’t know what they are thinking with that. I mean just because someone has a degree in English literature from Princeton and “knows some html” does not qualify her to be a technical writer.
What matters more to me on a CV is their graduating project or thesis, not really where they did it.
Whether an education is worthwhile or not depends on you.
It depends a lot more on who’s paying you.
Anyone who thinks going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for a degree in the gender dynamics of bronze age underwater basket weaving just so they can get a minimum wage job at starbucks is an idiot.
Anonymous3There are occasional discussions on here about the merits of STEM degrees. I won’t argue that a STEM education is a good thing, but I think there is a need for balance.
I like this article by Dr. Greg Johnson, in which he defends a liberal arts education (what we in Britain simply call ‘arts subjects’). As I don’t have a liberal arts degree myself, it was also interesting to read about Dr. Johnson’s thoughts and experiences.
<iframe class=”wp-embedded-content” sandbox=”allow-scripts” security=”restricted” style=”position: absolute; clip: rect(1px, 1px, 1px, 1px);” src=”http://www.counter-currents.com/2016/07/a-philosophers-education/embed/#?secret=7U0LIGdOzl” data-secret=”7U0LIGdOzl” width=”500″ height=”282″ title=”“A Philosopher’s Education” — Counter-Currents Publishing” frameborder=”0″ marginwidth=”0″ marginheight=”0″ scrolling=”no”></iframe>
I think there is a need for ‘masculine’ men (including MGTOWs) to go into the liberal arts and succeed in the academy. I also don’t accept that liberal arts degrees are easier than STEM. I know there has been considerable dumbing-down, but a degree is preparation for entering academia and how ‘easy’ or ‘hard’ a degree is depends on how hard you want to work. In my view, we should value education for its own sake, but as Dr. Johnson says, a good education is also preparation for life.
Quick contemplation before I go, the problem with liberal arts degrees is there needs to be no more government money behind it. It needs to be men perusing knowledge and simply make it readily available for those thirsty for knowledge. Liberal art degrees are f~~~ed because people with agenda’s are supported with f~~~ing money to push their agenda. That needs to end. STEM fields at least scare away screwb~~~~ that don’t know what the f~~~ they are talking about. Like I said, just a quick observation. This isn’t a solution as I don’t have time to think up something less non-sensical.
There would be little to no money in STEM without government grants either. The NIH I think it was, maybe some other ones, but they give out millions to STEM companies for “research”. A lot of times the applications for those grants are utter nonsense, and it’s really just another example of money going to the connected. If you work for someone else maybe you don’t understand how this works, but if you get higher up, you will see these things.
The US government pretty much drives all economic activity, they just don’t like admitting it and try to get people to go along with it down the pipeline.
A liberal arts degree out of Harvard or Yale is worth more than any STEM degree from a state school.
Not as far as I’m concerned. I employ a few engineers out of ivy league schools, and more out of state schools, but not a single Harvard Feminist Studies graduate. But don’t think they haven’t applied. I seriously don’t know what they are thinking with that. I mean just because someone has a degree in English literature from Princeton and “knows some html” does not qualify her to be a technical writer.
What matters more to me on a CV is their graduating project or thesis, not really where they did it.
Indeed, a Harvard liberal arts major applying for an engineer job is pretty ridiculous. But a Harvard liberal arts major applying to be the department head of a STEM division at a Fortune 200 company? That’s a lot more likely to happen. Or just not have a relation to STEM at all, and otherwise be in another field.
The money is mostly in finance, some for CPAs, and there are a few other routes. I don’t know why people go to STEM to make money. All my banker and CPA friends make way more money.
There would be little to no money in STEM without government grants either.
Absolutely untrue.
The NIH I think it was, maybe some other ones, but they give out millions to STEM companies for “research”.
Which is chump change compared to the billions churning in the private sector.
But a Harvard liberal arts major applying to be the department head of a STEM division at a Fortune 200 company? That’s a lot more likely to happen.
And I would immediately dump any stock I held in that company, because we’ve all seen the end result of those sorts of decisions.
Anonymous3<
Anyone who thinks going hundreds of thousands of dollars into debt for a degree in the gender dynamics of bronze age underwater basket weaving just so they can get a minimum wage job at starbucks is an idiot.Anybody who thinks what? That sentence doesn’t make sense. Who is thinking this and what are they thinking?
Education is what you make of it. Men who want to study liberal arts subjects or social science, whether gender studies or whatever, should do so, if that is what they want. People should just do what they want. What you ‘want’ can mean different things. It could mean get an education or it could mean training in a particular field or qualifying for a well-paid career.
As I see it, people seek higher education for different reasons with different goals in mind.
A lot of people pursue higher education with the hope of landing a career and making some serious coin.
Other people just want to learn about subjects that interest them.
I have seen liberal arts majors go on to pursue law degrees and mba degrees. Two of my attorney friends who charge 400 per hour had history degrees before pursuing legal education.
I know several CEO’s with liberal arts backgrounds.I also know many guys with liberal arts degrees who are flipping burgers.
It’s all good. Find something that interests you and go for it.
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