I need tough (platonic) love, my friends…

[Mr.NeverAgainParticipant 146]

Kitchen sink casserole, 2 shots and a beer. I feel a bit more collected.

So by day 2.5 she had everything I personally owned, down to my body wash packed and waiting. She and her sister sat and watched while I loaded every box and garbage bag by myself with a broken hand and my whole life fit in a 1995 honda civic. Other than the kid, its a clean snap.

To one of your later points in section b, about selfishness. I watched some vids on youtube about self confidence and such. One guy did say something that struck me hard. I have been conditioned to be afraid of selfishness, or even just the possibility that other people would see me as selfish, or bad, or strange ect…

I could almost dive into being more selfish ( i don’t even like the damn word ) if I weren’t so afraid of how my daughter will come to relate to me after all is said and done. She is really spreading bad things about me. She went through everything when I raged out, my computer, everything. I was always pretty open so she knew where to look, she knew everything about me. She got pictures of damage done in the kitchen, as does her sister who was right there. I got some bitter pills to swallow, I made some bad decisions and was far too trusting. Im dodging bullets I mostly hand-loaded. And if I could even form a coherent picture of myself in 5 years, I wouldn’t mind having a go at self authoring.

P.s. Ya winged me with that Jung jab. Im not an expert, but I do dabble.

“I know your race. It is made up of sheep. It is governed by minorities, seldom or never by majorities. It suppresses its feelings and its beliefs and follows the handful that makes the most noise." The Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain

[MattNYCParticipant 2329]

Hey brother, welcome.

I think you’ve made a great first step in connecting with other guys who’ve been through some tough times & asking for advice.

I agree that you need to consult an attorney. They’ve been down this road before, you haven’t, so they’ll be your logical advocate – when you don’t know the landscape, when you don’t know the process – when you’re getting emotional, that’s what lawyers are there for.

Next: lifting heavy weights at least 3 days per week was a huge help for me with stress, anger, confidence & sleep. I needed all of that when i started my divorce.

It’s not easy, but it definitely does get better. Better than i could’ve ever imagined.

One more thing. Divorce brought a lot of other things to the surface. Keep an eye on stuff like this

Mr.NeverAgain wrote:

I have been conditioned to be afraid of selfishness, or even just the possibility that other people would see me as selfish, or bad, or strange ect…

because making big changes in yourself is one of the most rewarding things you can do in your life. Once you have some breathing room re: divorce, learning how to be selfish is f~~~ing awesome.

[Anonymous 0]

Mr.NeverAgain wrote:

She got pictures of damage done in the kitchen, as does her sister who was right there.

Of course, I don’t know the whole story on the refrigerator you punched or any other anger issues there might be along the same lines. But you’ve mentioned some incident about punching a fridge and busting up your hand a couple times in this thread, so I just want to point out: For what it’s worth, there’s no law against punching your fridge. People throw stuff and things get broken in fights. Your ex will probably try to make a big deal out of what happened with the fridge. But just hand it over to the lawyer, and you may be pleasantly suprised. Ask your lawyer if you should see a counselor just to play it safe and show the judge that you’re working on your anger issues. But who knows, the lawyer may say it’s not a big deal.

In my case I dented up a door one night in a bit of a tantrum. Afterward, I was afraid that it would come back and haunt me, but it didn’t. No-fault divorce laws try to skip past all that stuff and simply get the parties divorced and on their separate ways.

Obviously I’m not suggesting that gratuitous violence or temper tantrums are okay. But women throw stuff and break stuff just as much as men. Within reasonable limits, divorce law tries to move past that kind of thing and not make a big deal out of it.

Anyway, my point is this: Separations and divorces are almost always messy. But that’s what you pay the laywer for. Don’t get all freaked out or unnecessarily guilty about what happened. Just get that lawyer, hand off any touchy issues to him, and follow his instructions. If there’s any worrying to be done, let your lawyer do the worrying for you.

[BikermanParticipant 57]

I don’t say that the psychoanalytical work of Freud, Jung et al is all bunk – there are no doubt some useful insights to be gained. What I object strongly to is those who treat it like some sort of real science, and insist that this stuff is ‘true’ and ‘tested’.

It is also worth remembering that modern feminism is heavily dependent, academically, on the work of a bunch of French psychoanalysts and philosophers, influential in the 1970s and 1980s. One of the main characters was a chap called Jaques Lacan and he was lauded as the ‘new Freud’. Feminists love him because he ‘reinterpreted’ the parts of Freud’s work that they objected to. Personally I regard him, and his fellow ‘post-structuralists’ as a bunch of charlatans, who either knew they were spouting bulls~~~ and enjoyed the game (true for Lacan I think), or were so far up their own arseholes that they really thought their gibberish contained deep truths (probably true for Derrida, Kristeva and a few others). Their post-truth, total relativism, post-modern garbage infected academia, largely through the newly sprouting departments of ‘women’s studies’ in universities. At the time is prompted a major division in feminism and the ‘old guard’ thought they had defeated this new post-structural movement and became complacent. What actually happened is that followers of this new movement carried on working in the universities and, in the way of things, got promoted from assistant lecturer to full lecturer and in some cases on to full professorships. They then had sufficient clout to introduce their poisonous garbage on a wider scale than their own ‘gender studies’ courses and the rest, as they say, is history.
When you couple this to the fact that US academia has become a leftist monopoly (the number of republicans, to take a crude measure, in the humanities has dropped from something like 30% to something barely measurable) then you begin to be able to explain the nonsense that has erupted on university campuses over the last 12 months.

These academics are scum and I despise them with a passion. They bring shame on my profession because they have discarded an absolutely central plank of teaching ethics – it is the teacher’s role to present the best thinking available in their discipline – including thinking different to current orthodoxy where appropriate. It is NOT the teachers role to indoctrinate students with a particular view or movement, and effectively recruit them as ground-troops in support of that movement.
These scumbags not only do that, they make no bones about being proud of their efforts. I would cheerfully see them all sacked tomorrow.

Anyhoo….back to Peterson….search for him on Youtube – he has uploaded a lot of his teaching materials – and maybe watch the video HERE in which he talks specifically on this. Get back to me if you need more info or specific links.

[Mr.NeverAgainParticipant 146]

To 2step – I have been researching what i can, and your pretty spot on i think. She always managed to keep her rage emotionally destructive, so the physical end is on me but, I have no arrest record, no fights no domestic violence, nothing worse than a stack of parking tickets I already paid off years ago. I actually feel a little bad trying to work this all out on your guys forum. I’ve just never HAD to face things in my life because I was convinced that my future was at least secure.

I pushed all my friends away for a women. Put my hobbies on the back burner for a women. And all I got was the worst case of poisoning ever. To all the younger bucks out there, wondering about the ring…If she doesn’t accept %100 of you…YOU WILL BURN, AND IT WILL HURT. P.S. Children don’t save marriages.

Bikerman wrote:

I don’t say that the psychoanalytical work of Freud, Jung et al is all bunk – there are no doubt some useful insights to be gained.

Okay, then we are pretty much on the same page, but you’re certainly better read. I always kept Jung and identity/consciousness where it belonged in my mind, the realm of abstraction. I can see your point of such airy philosophy being toxic when applied to real life policies and practices. I never liked Freud, as I think most of the ideas he was correct on (in my opinion) were probably obvious enough that many others were batting them around as well.

“I know your race. It is made up of sheep. It is governed by minorities, seldom or never by majorities. It suppresses its feelings and its beliefs and follows the handful that makes the most noise." The Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain

[Anonymous 0]

Don’t worry about working it out on us, MrNever
The time will come when you can help some other guy going through what you are going through now. You will get past this.

[BikermanParticipant 57]

The reading was forced on me. Working in education, I used to identify as a feminist like nearly everyone else. Then a few years ago a particularly bright student of mine who I’ll call Sue, asked me whether I’d given her a B instead of an A as part of patriarchal oppression. She was joking – just trying to get a rise out of me – but it forced me to actually look into feminism a bit more – until that point I was at the ‘feminism = gender equality so obviously all right thinking people are feminists’ stage of thinking.

I did a bit of background reading and didn’t like what I read. It seemed to me that all the academic stuff I was reading was deliberately written to be obscure. I had to keep breaking away from the papers to lookup new words and terms – and I usually consider my vocabulary pretty damn good. Eventually, partly out of frustration, I took a trip to the faculty of humanities and asked a colleague, working in sociology, some basic questions. She sat me down, with a pitying/condescending smile, and gave me a lecture on patriarchy theory. I took notes. Her use of language was barely less obscurantist than the stuff I’d been reading in the journals. I used the notes, later, to track down sources, and eventually realised I was going to have to plough through several academic texts to proceed further. So then I started to go through Derrida, Lacan, Kristeva, Irrigaray, Deleuze et al.

This was not a new experience for me. A few years prior to this I decided I wanted to know more physics, which led to me realising I was going to have to greatly improve my maths, leading to a self-education project lasting years. I’m quite happy educating myself on new stuff – or so I thought.

I quickly realised that much of this writing was deliberately obscure. It wasn’t just that there was a new set of jargon that I needed to learn – that would have been fine and, working in IT, I would be the last to criticise the use of, and requirement for, technical language. No, this was different. This jargon was not there to express technical concepts in a convenient shorthand way – as all good jargon is. It seemed to me that the entire point of this jargon was to obscure the basic fact that the words themselves were either obvious truisms or meaningless gibberish – an opinion that has not changed.

When I did plough through great chunks of Lacan’s work, translating into usable English as I went, I found that what he had actually said, free of jargon, was sod all about sod all. When he actually DID make statements containing meaningful information, they were wrong. He littered his work with scientific and mathematical references and I could see straight away that it was total bulls~~~. Since then this has been comprehensively revealed in the excellent book by Sokal and Bricmont – Intellectual Impostures – which takes a close look at the writings of this bunch of academics and analyses the scientific and mathematical references which pepper the writings, showing it to be either completely wrong or completely meaningless in each case.

Lacan and his fellow writers put these references in for one reason only – to convince their mathematically challenged peers in the humanities that they were clearly dealing with masters of the material, and to scare them away from asking any questions which might prove embarrassing. For decades since then doctoral theses have been approved and passed which are based on some gibberish or other from one of these charlatans……people have based entire academic careers on writings which, at best, can be described as ignorant self-aggrandising garbage. It is little wonder that people working in humanities have been slow to criticise the crap that their colleagues publish – a large number of them are implicated in that same crap.

[Mr.NeverAgainParticipant 146]

Anonymous wrote:

The time will come when you can help some other guy going through what you are going through now. You will get past this.

Damn right. Just hope I can get to a few poor bastards BEFORE they fall into the fastest-depreciating financial/emotional mistake ever.

Bikerman wrote:

The reading was forced on me.

I can almost relate here. This may not shock, but my ex got a lib arts bach. with a minor in womens studies. I never really argued her on the matter (assumed it was a phase) but I was always kinda nihilistic and misanthropic to the point that I thought any kind of -ist group was all the same. My dad was politcally conservative but socially apathetic, so I was much the same way for awhile. Never religious enough to be rock ribbed conservative, but I did feel like many of their social policies did favor society/the majority. But I guess that was when I actually believed in the family structure.

I did watch that video you linked. “You don’t actually exist until you have your own words.” That hit me hard. What he said about lying, or using other peoples words/experiences is all true. Im letting everybody define the terms and conditions around me, whilst setting myself up to be a guaranteed failure. I pick myself up by saying “at least i tried” and kick myself down from trying any further by admitting I never had a chance. It’s not that things in my life were too hard, it is more that they were not easy enough. That is pretty embarrassing to have to admit.

“I know your race. It is made up of sheep. It is governed by minorities, seldom or never by majorities. It suppresses its feelings and its beliefs and follows the handful that makes the most noise." The Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain

[BikermanParticipant 57]

Stop with the embarrassment – learning something you didn’t know before is always good and the fact you didn’t know it just meant you had more opportunities to learn 🙂
As I said, I shouldn’t like Peterson, going on his beliefs, but I do – actually it isn’t so much ‘like’ more ‘admire’. I think he is taking a principled stand on free speech and I don’t buy the criticism that he is just seeking to publicise himself. He is knowingly risking a whole career in defence of a principle that he believes is crucial to an advanced society (and I agree with him). In short he is putting not just his money but his whole stack where his mouth is, and that is surely something admirable.

[Anonymous 0]

Mr.NeverAgain wrote:

M52 wrote:

The time will come when you can help some other guy going through what you are going through now. You will get past this.

Damn right. Just hope I can get to a few poor bastards BEFORE they fall into the fastest-depreciating financial/emotional mistake ever.

Reminds me of something I was reading recently.

PUA folks talk about “Game,” which more or less equates to how Red Pill men deal with women. In the early years, “Game” was simply about scoring with women. But lately “Game” is seen as a bigger framework, that is, as an antidote to “the negative, shameful and ridiculous archetypes that 60 years of feminization had convinced women and men of,” and it reinterprets masculinity as something positive, beneficial, and competent.

One blogger goes even further and talks about the concept of “Meta-Game.” He points out that the manosphere on the Internet is for men what the sexual revolution was for women. Before the internet, men had no resources or answers on how to deal with women’s tricks. But now that the manosphere exists, men can compare notes, ask questions, get answers from a worldwide community, etc. This is the Meta-Game: the manosphere working cooperatively to share Game infrastructure among themselves.

From the blogger’s essay:

“The genie is now out of the bottle, and for better or worse the information is liberating. This is the Meta-Game. Lets consider it for a moment: Just last week I added my voice to a chorus of other men from around the world to help out a young man struggling with his AFC problems. I joined guys from Britain, Australia, Spain, Canada, New York, Los Angeles, and anywhere in between. A global collective of Men advised this kid. That’s pretty powerful stuff. This is one world of men advising a young man about his situation with a girl acculturated in a world influenced by women for five decades.”

This is the Meta-Masculine pushing back against the Meta-Feminized. […]”

Link: https://therationalmale.com/2011/08/24/meta-game/

So anyway, it’s new to all of us. But that’s what we’re here for: To share our experiences and maybe help out.

Anyway, best of luck handling the ex!

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