Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › How to deal with backstabbing from family?
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experienced 3 years, 5 months ago.
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Dear all,
i am overwhelmed and blown away by your very detailed and profound responses.
Thank you so much for sacrificing this much effort and time to help me. I really do appreciate it and am very, very grateful.
After reading your posts i simply needed some time to ponder about your suggestions therefore my delayed answer. There is so much life experience, knowledge and wisdom that i don’t want to devalue it by just replying with a single post to cover it all.
Of course i’d like to maintain readability but i am going to answer each post individually because i think it is the right thing to do.
In a nutshell, i will follow your advice and finally cut ties with my family.
I can’t do this any longer without sacrificing my own sanity. Don’t want to sound much like a complainer BUT to turn my back on my children for now is tough. It is against my nature just because as a father of two i am hardwired to guide and protect them. My instinct of survival is stronger and i can’t deal any longer with alienating, a f~~~ed up family and children that are manipulated to hate me. I will explain myself IF the time will come. The journal technique suggested by TwoStep makes absolutely sense to me and i will do this.
Again, dear all, thank you very, very much!
The best to you,
John
(..)The problem is apparently you can’t soak this up with the burning desire for vindication, truth, and justice, just accept that day will never come as memories fade and confessions and apologies will never come. You’re caught in the destructive riff this society has constructed for men.
Keep the WALL between you and them and build it stronger for ever unless they start dismantling it first.
Multi MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of men have been villeinized and isolated from being a father, father has become a dirty word as that’s now the State’s new found position.
All men can do at this point is WALL off women before they ruin your life or after they ruin your life.
John, take comfort in the fact you’re not alone, millions of us are building little walls around ourselves to protect ourselves from this raging battle!
(..)Yes sir, it is true that i have trouble to cope with this s~~~. I am a big fan of Stealthy’s posts where he talks about finding peace and purge hatred. So i am not looking for vindication at this point anymore. In the beginning of the breakup i naively thought that all can be explained to family members and according to logic they will finally understand how things really are. Needless to say this was just plain dumb.
You made a very good point by mentioning that the memory in people’s mind fade. A lot of people tend to keep only the better moments in mind and to get rid of the bad ones. Guess this a big factor to take into consideration.
My first reaction after things went nasty was just run by instinct. Later i found out that it was an survival tactic:
1. Increase distance between you and the enemy
2. Put obstacles (the wall) between you and them
3. Time. To finally come to think and regain strengthI know that i am not special. There is guys out there who were f~~~ed over a lot worse.
Maybe the answer is to finally accept reality.
The best to you,
John
(..)My mother even made the comment that it was weird seeing him sitting in my leather recliner. (..)Even if that ends it will not change the pain and hurt my relatives have caused me and I don’t see that getting better.
I am very sorry to hear that! That is indeed a tough one.
Unfortunately i don’t have a remedy to offer and make things better. What helps me is to play an instrument and to get sucked into the moment. Guess other things like playing an immersive video game would do too as long as it’s your moment. Hope things will turn out great for you.
The best to you,
John
Understand that your exGF and her family have only further revealed THEIR CHARACTERS by their behaviors. How you choose to respond to the situation reveals your own.
Forgiveness does NOT mean forgetting. You can forgive the Ex and her t~~~ family, and should because it improves YOUR character and life. Not forgetting what happened keeps you from making the same mistakeagain.This is more true than i’d like to admit. Well, it took a while for me to understand and to see the machinery society has created to f~~~ men over. The first reaction when i lost my child was pure anger followed by a lot of strong words. I am not proud of this. Stealing a man’s children is one of the most personal things i can imagine.
Today i am more mature and pick more proper behaviour to deal with this. So over time it influenced my character for the better. All i can see from them right now is basically the same s~~~ like it was back in the day. From my observation they made no progress and got stuck in their hatred towards me. Perhaps they need to continue to do this to actually justify their strong actions against me.
The best to you,
John
John,
This hits pretty close to home. This post is almost exactly my situation 30 years after…There is a factor here that you may not yet see that might help you. I also came from a pretty screwed up family. Alcoholics, drug addicts,… etc. The relationships between us all were not unlike the politics of a prison yard. Dog-eat-dog… every man for himself… that sort of crap.
Somewhere early on along the way, I made the decision that I would not be a product of the screwed up system I was born into. I wanted a life without the drama and psychopathology, and focused on education as the means of escape. No one really noticed until I started to succeed in that effort. Clean, sober, educated, respected (by society and myself)… Eventually, distant relatives not part of the screwed up family started to notice, and cheered. Then, the siblings turned on me… jealousy and envy are powerful influences on behavior.
(..)Work, travel, hobbies, sports, education, reading books at the library… whatever you’re into. It doesn’t matter, as long as it benefits you, and has nothing to do with them. That peace you seek does not take so long to appear…
Thank you sharing this insight and kudos to you for being so smart at a very young age. I was a lot dumber and could never have done that. What is also interesting besides your personal path is that it is an outlook into a mich wider time frame.
When s~~~ hits the fan one question is “should i cooperate and put up to keep family in my life?”. From my humble point of view i came to the conclusion that nothing will get better. It only gets worse; every next that f~~~s the X becomes the new daddy and the family is cool with that. Two weeks the next clown hits on her and the circle continues. The father is definitely at the end of the food chain.
Congratulations to the life you earned. It is very inspiring and i hope things went well in the future for you.
The best to you,
John
(..)
Sooner or later you may come to the conclusion that rather than the situation being a version of ‘my family was near perfect and then this happened so I’m devastated’, you will instead start having insights, the grouping of past perceptions into a meaningful whole. The way one of your family described a certain situation years ago, will now be seen in a different light. Or the way they reacted recently, when “templated” upon decades ago, will allow you to see the actual reality of them then, vs. now.
When you then fit together what was done then, with how they are proceeding now, it will provide relief.
(..)
On a general note, your family is abusive to you now, chances are they were abusive to you in your youth and regrettably you’ve been raised to seek out abuse or wisps of it “as love” because to every child, the assumption is that “what I’m receiving is love” even in cases when it is not.
(..)This might be a tough point for many to admit failure. Interestingly for me it is not. Why this? In the beginning of the breakup i realised that i was the only one who apparently reflected himself and admitted mistakes. In my specific case there was a lot that i couldn’t influence and had no power over. What p~~~es me of was and still is that no one blamed her for her actions that were clearly not in the best interest of our children.Yeah, i know you know that of course – so enough of that.
The point that really was an eye opener to me was you pointing out that my family most likely was abusive to me. There is two things to it: my behavioural pattern in regard to females and the other one is the abusive treatment from my family.
Since then i reflected my behaviour a lot and grew towards the goal to not be the perfect matching puzzle piece to this kind of woman. I dare to claim that i succeeded here.
The other one i way more tough. One of the things i realised after the breakup was that mothers get all the support and nobody gives a f~~~ about men. It was absolutely clear to me that i had to improve and help myself to enhance my life. To be able to actually do this i refused to be a whiny pussy and to feel like a victim. Honestly i think you are right with your presumption about my family and i that i need to investigate this. But to function and to cope with actual threats i refuse to deal with question right now. I know that i have to face this but now is the time to rebuild my life. Otherwise i wouldn’t have the drive to do this.
The best to you,
John
Women cause all kinds of problems, one of the biggest being that when you break up/get divorced then you lose every friend or associate that you ever made while together as they will inevitably take the woman’s side like the good little brainwashed f~~~ers they are.
People will talk and talk about family to end. It doesn’t matter, leave them, man. I did it, they were too negative and manupulative and expected to get away with it because they were my family. Thought they could treat me like s~~~ but I hate to treat them nice because “family”.
(..)You say things like it is. Absolutely agree with that. What i don’t get about people’s decision to pick a side is that there is a pattern across all social classes. The actual incident has very little to do with people’s decision. In my case a family member witnessed a violent act from my X against me. Still he picks her side. So even if a brainwashed person is exposed to true evidence it still doesn’t matter. Guess most people’s core belief still is that females can’t be bad.
Of course you are right about that i can only change my own behaviour and decide how to act. With the knowledge from this site and my humble experience now i know that talking is the only thing they have. It wouldn’t be a glorious victory for my X if she could not get anybody to hate me. She needs to point to me out as the enemy to get others to accept her actions. This i even true for other family members.
As the logical consequence IWGMOW (i will go my own way).
The best to you,
John
The previous posts offer excellent insights into your painful situation. I wish you the best.
If I were in your situation (I’m not), then I would study up on the first sermon of the Buddha. I would do what he recommended 25 centuries ago.
Needed to look that up to understand your message. Here we go:
To make it easier to read i am going to oversimplify things:
In the aforementioned text passage Buddha explains in depth what suffering actually is and furthermore it’s origin. (source: http://www.buddhanet.net/bp_sut17.htm)
So what is suffering?
The Noble Truth of Suffering (..) is this: Birth is suffering, ageing is suffering, sickness is suffering, death is suffering, association with the unpleasant is suffering, dissociation from the pleasant is suffering, not to receive what one desires is suffering (..).
What is the origin of suffering?
The Noble Truth of the Origin (cause) of Suffering is this: It is this craving (thirst) which produces re-becoming (rebirth) accompanied by passionate greed, and finding fresh delight now here, and now there, namely craving for sense pleasure, craving for existence and craving for non-existence (self-annihilation).
How to end suffering?
The Noble Truth of the Cessation of Suffering is this: It is the complete cessation of that very craving, giving it up, relinquishing it, liberating oneself from it, and detaching oneself from it.
The Noble Truth of the Path Leading to the Cessation of Suffering is this: It is the Noble Eightfold Path, and nothing else, namely: right understanding, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration.(3)
My conclusion is that Buddha said that what has the potential of craving, has the potential of cessation, too. I’d like to thing of this as some kind of reverse engineering: find the root cause of your craving and kill it by following Buddha’s 8 steps.
I hope i got this right so far.
RoyDal, thank you very much for leading me to this insight. This wisdom will work for a lot of scenarios but to be honest i think it doesn’t work in this case.
Why do i say this?
If a child dies i can burry it and have a grave where i can moan my loss.
A child that lives but is not present in my life is like a dead one but still alive at the same time. Family court will not let me close this chapter any time soon nor child support.
I think Buddhas concept works only for things that one actually can get done and dusted. But this of course only my humble opinion.Thank you for this! It is very interesting and i enjoyed reading about Buddha as i only knew very little about him before.
The best to you,
John
Just stay strong brother. It’s my belief that when family takes sides with your ex, they are only doing it to be able to still have contact with the child. (..)
The more i think about it the more i think you are right about it. This might indeed be one of the main reasons for them to act like they do. Definitely food for my thoughts. Thank you for this!
The best to you,
John
Ah yes, the moment when you come to the realization that your family, isn’t much of a “family” at all. Look at it this way … any illusions you were under about your family’s love for you in the past, is gone.
(..)
It’s a cold hard reality to confront, but it’s important you confront it, and then accept it for what it is. Sever as many ties as you can, with anyone who is not in the best interest of you, and your future.That was a kick in my b~~~~, Sir. And i am grateful for it. We are talking here about a topic that is taboo in mainstream. One thing i realise now thanks to you is that there is no limit for the red pill. I am going my own way. This also means to be completely honest to myself. To reflect this one under new light will defiantly help to close this very chapter. It’s ugly but i guess i need to accept my loss. Thank you!
The best to you,
John
(..)
Relationships must be maitained,cultivated. Mutual respect and careing.Even family.Esepialy family. If not,you owe them nothing,better off on your own.That is an important truth i ignored for too long. Thank you for reminding me of that!
The best to you,
John
How can i deal with this loss and betrayal and finally find my peace?
Doesn’t sound like there’s really anything you can do. So just blow it off. You know, the Serenity Prayer and all that: “Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change…”
In a way, it’s kind of a free ride when there’s simply nothing to be done about it. You just file it away and forget about it, at least until such time as something changes on *their* side.
Besides, you said that you’re in recovery. So you don’t need complications anyway.
(..)
The journaling exercise can be helpful when you find yourself obsessing about a complicated situation. You may be obsessing because you’re simply trying to retain it and keep it all straight in your head in case you need to account for your actions someday in the future. So journaling will solve that problem. Do a brain dump, capture it on paper, and then you can let go of it in your mind because you have the journal to remind you of the details.I heard of that Serenity Prayer a few years ago without knowing what it is nor its origin. If memory serves the second part goes something like this “and let me have the courage to change what i can, let me also have the wisdom to tell which one it is”.
Yes… i find it quite useful and i think there is a lot of wisdom in it. From your writings i can tell that it is reasonable what you say and that it makes sense to follow your advice. My problem is that i need to fight my hardwired nature to execute this. Hardwired because my instinct tells me i need to guide and protect my kids, my reason tells me reality like it is. It’s just my inner struggle and i need to fight this battle.
After some pondering about about your journal idea i come to think that it resolves more than one problem. It i catched your idea correctly you mentioned that the cause of my struggle might be the fear of information loss. Hence i am keeping all in my head. To be honest, i think this is likely but i am not absolutely sure. I think there is things that have such an impact on your life that they just burn into your mind. I will give a shot and hope that you are right that memory will fade over time.
Thank you very much for this very profound suggestion!
The best to you,
John
Get a visa and try someplace else. Get new start and then come back on your terms.
This a definitely a great idea. I hope i can make this happen.
The best to you,
John
Have nothing to do with them after this.
This idea has crossed my mind more than once and i bit my tongue because … you know, family. Glad i see it now for what it is.
The best to you,
John
I was going through the same thing with my family. I threatened to cut ties with them and to never go to any social gatherings, xmas, nothing to do with them ever, EVER! Their attitudes towards me seemed to change after I told them how it is and how it will be if things don’t change. Why should you suffer for someone else dude? Sorry to hear this is happening to you. I hope you prosper.
Thank you for sharing this experience with me! I can see you have a good point. At the same time i am afraid in my situation i already have passed the point of no return. So to threaten them with leaving is not a viable option. The time to talk is definitely over.
I wish you the best as well!
The best to you,
John
I totally agree with you twostep. The journal idea is a great tool. It has worked wonders for me.
(..) But if I had kids to file it for in the future I guess might be a good idea I guess. But I’m afraid of mine falling into the wrong hands some how. And coming back to bite me in the ass. Anyways try the writing s~~~ down for some f~~~ed up reason it helps.Your experience is a key factor me to seriously consider this. I hope it works.
What just popped into my mind is if my kids will be interested in this when they will confront me in the future…?
Well, i guess this is the best i can do for now.The best to you,
John
Like everyone else is saying, cut them off. They have already shown whose side they are on. Now more than ever you must go your own way. It is reasons like this that a man must be strong.
(..)As for things you can do to help take your mind off of it, KNOWLEDGE!!! (..)Thank you for explaining this to me! When it comes to family there is second thoughts at least for me. I know you are right about this one.
I would also like to thank you for reminding me how important education for MGTOW is! I will keep this mind.The best to you,
John
(..)
Walk away. Bide your time. When they try to get back in contact with you, needing someone to take care of them in their old age, and they will, remind them of their betrayal. Then continue walking away.Oh, i will never forget their part which they played when my children were taken from me. My approach is to take a lot if important factors into consideration and then make my move. And do it right, not only half assed. Valid point!
The best to you,
John
Hi, John
Just wanted to say were all here for you. I wanted to say that the exact same thing happened to me in 2003. (..)
With her mothers influence she left me because I refused to deal with terrorists. (..)
On another note, my son turned 18 last month and child support is over!!! I told that bitch of a mother of his never to contact me again. So far so good. So John, keep your wits, there is a light at the end of the tunnel even though it is a long one.I am very sorry to hear that! Thank you for your kind support – it helps a lot!
We have something in common, we both refused to be a puppet on strings played by the puppet master. Part of my situation is that i limited the spending behaviour according due to our financial situation as well. Needless to say she didn’t like it. I understand your reasons, brother.
Thank you for pointing out that there is an end to this madness. Very glad to hear that you are done with it!
The best to you,
John
Anonymous42Perhaps they need to continue to do this to actually justify their strong actions against me.
After the torture comes the mercy killing so the tyrant can feel good about his (self reprieved) “good deed”.
We need to realise the difference between ‘Relatives’ and ‘Family’
‘Relatives’ are those to whom we are connected genetically.
‘Family’ are those who are there for us and us for them.
‘Family’ does not necessarily mean someone related to you by blood. ‘Family’ are people who you meet and pick up on life’s journey and by their behaviour earn that title....And in our own despair, against our will, Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Agamemnon; by Aeschylus
Probably the single most valuable lesson I ever learned in life is one I still have to occasionally recite to myself: How I feel matters, and it matters so much that it is worth discarding ANY relationship I have in order to preserve it. I DO NOT OWE anyone a relationship with me. I can abandon any relationship I choose, for any reason I choose, or for no reason at all… just because I feel like it. How I feel matters far more than what anyone expects of me.
If I had kids, I might be flexible on this, and I won’t argue that those of you with kids might feel you owe them something for bringing them into the world. But aside from that, same last name, same parents, same grandparents… IDGAF. None of that obligates me to have relationship with someone who is toxic to my own mental health.
I’m about a half century old now. I learned the lesson above almost 30 years ago, and from the first day I put it into practice, I’ve never doubted the decision to end any of the toxic relationships I ended as a result of this realization.
Look, it's not my fault that tornado dropped a house on your sister. Now get back on your broom and get your ass out of here... and take your monkeys with you
Just stay strong brother. It’s my belief that when family takes sides with your ex, they are only doing it to be able to still have contact with the child.
Probably the only reason…..but yes, I’ve seen a man’s family turn on him because he had gone ‘bad’.
Whatever the reason for your break-up, you should have got a second chance. Nobody deserves to be ‘abandoned’ like that.
I’l give you a heads up; use that pain and turn it into a striving force to improve yourself.
Self-improvement is the best revenge you can have at life. Do the thing you love; you need to achieve such an achievement that when you think about your family/girlfriend again, you can counter our pain with your achievement.
“Okay, I lost them all, but hey! Its not like I lost everything!!”
I’ll say it again….self-improvement is the best revenge you can have at life. Who knows, maybe your life will turn for the better and everybody, including your family and girlfriend, will start envying you.
Its never too late for a change. Its all in your head, its all in your lap….and its all yours for the taking. You just need to go and take it.
edit: If you really want to be a part of your children’s ife, you knw there is always a way to love them even though they might hate you. How you do that, that’s something you will need to find out for yourself. They might not even know that you loved them right away………but they WILL once they mature and are able to think wisely.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
One of the things i realised after the breakup was that mothers get all the support and nobody gives a f~~~ about men.
This is worth repeating for all unmarried newcomers.
No fault divorce = she says it’s over and it is and she gets half, plus child support, plus re-edumacation expenses, plus assorted other BS expenses.
The support of the court = your $$$.
The support of laws = you’re guilty til proven innocent.
The support of society.
AND SADLY, the support of the relatives.
A RARE exception is when the child is old enough to conclude on his/her own that mom is full of s~~~."It seems like there's times a body gets struck down so low, there ain't a power on earth that can ever bring him up again. Seems like something inside dies so he don't even want to get up again. But he does."
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